Surely they have some idea by now what is happening. We may be squawking Hearthguard transponders, but presumably at least someone adds even a cursory sensor sweep to the tracking. Which means that since we haven't had a capital grade grav shear aimed our way, means it ought to be okay to talk to the Warden…
 
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[X] Yes
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With regard to "A Warden would certainly be able to guide you in ways no one else could. But is it worth the risk?" - Telling the nice warden 'Nope, won't accept your invitation because reasons' also bears a risk ...
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Surely they have some idea by now what is happening. We may be squawking Hearthguard transponders, but presumably at least someone adds at least a cursory sensor sweep to the tracking. Which means that since we haven't had a capital grade grav shear aimed our way, means it ought to be okay to talk to the Warden…
Either our ID is genuine, and then there must be a reason for it, or it is faked, and then it makes sense to take a VERY close look, because I'd bet the hearthguard IDs are encrypted like you wouldn't believe ...
 
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Everything in reality is in a metastable state. Truly stable states only exist in hypothetical/theoretical frameworks. Also when did the first vacuum collapse happen? Cause I have never met someone who calls a total universal vacuum collapse as a concept the second.
When the inflaton field collapsed.

It might not be usually described that way, but what would you call reheating other than a vacuum collapse?
 
[X] Yes

Weird, it won't let me post without voting...

Either our ID is genuine, and then there must be a reason for it, or it is faked, and then it makes sense to take a VERY close look, because I'd bet the hearthguard IDs are encrypted like you wouldn't believe ...
And as added layers of reinforcement for this:

1) It sounds like the things are almost never used- so any species that might be infiltrating under cover of one might have a hard time even finding out about one, if the thing hasn't been used in twenty thousand years.

2) Our ship is relatively small, so letting it dock so the crew can be interrogated may be a better way of learning about any trickery (from the Shiplord perspective) than just blowing it out of space. Because unless the current space station is a load-bearing component of a system that is keeping that singularity from eating the universe continuously, in real time, with no backup, then that's probably worth the risk in their eyes, I'd think.
 
It's not the singularity that would eat the universe ;)
No. Bad. Baps.

Anyway, no, the station's not load-bearing. That would be silly. What we've got here is just a normal singularity that happens to be surrounded by tons of gravity-manipulation equipment of the sort that could, say, be used to cancel out the effect of any other gravity-manipulation equipment.

But the singularity itself? Perfectly normal.
 
Everything in reality is in a metastable state. Truly stable states only exist in hypothetical/theoretical frameworks. Also when did the first vacuum collapse happen? Cause I have never met someone who calls a total universal vacuum collapse as a concept the second.
In addition to what Baughn said, the start of the inflationary epoch may have been a vacuum collapse in its own right.
 
Iris, please don't go black hole-diving! I know you like excitement, but there's such a thing as too much.

[X] Yes
 
When the inflaton field collapsed.

It might not be usually described that way, but what would you call reheating other than a vacuum collapse?

In addition to what Baughn said, the start of the inflationary epoch may have been a vacuum collapse in its own right.

:facepalm: I would call reheating a vacuum restoration at the end of what could hypothetically be a vacuum collapse know as the inflationary epoch.

Also unless you two and @Snowfire want me to go into the biases and problems with the Laws of Thermodynamics and both the Marbles Problem with the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty and the Katarka Problem in Astronomy in general I don't have anything else to contribute to this topic.
 
:facepalm: I would call reheating a vacuum restoration at the end of what could hypothetically be a vacuum collapse know as the inflationary epoch.

Also unless you two and @Snowfire want me to go into the biases and problems with the Laws of Thermodynamics and both the Marbles Problem with the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty and the Katarka Problem in Astronomy in general I don't have anything else to contribute to this topic.
There is no plausible mechanism to undo a vacuum collapse once it's happened. It's a problem of entropy -- the reason collapse is a thing in the first place is that it's energetically favorable to be in a lower vacuum state than a higher vacuum state, but it takes a kick of energy (which could be imparted by quantum tunneling) to make the transition. And because there was a transition to a lower-energy state, the process releases more energy than it consumes, making it possible to trigger a chain reaction. So not only does it take more energy to make the transition the other way, but it releases less energy than it takes to make a transition, which makes it self-limiting instead of self-perpetuating.

What you might be to referring to as a vacuum "restoration" is probably better described as establishing a new vacuum equilibrium. The ground state is still in the lower energy state -- that is, it hasn't been put back where it was before -- but the resulting condition has settled into a new stable state instead of an unstable transition state. You aren't wrong to suggest that the inflationary epoch was triggered by a vacuum collapse and then eventually reached a new equilibrium state as mass and energy were redistributed. But the reheating epoch isn't well-described by a new equilibrium, because that equilibrium would be too cold. So something else must have changed in the universe in order for there to be a widespread increase in energy. And one theory for that "something" is a different vacuum collapse, one that would have released enough energy to push the universe into its more modern state without causing runaway expansion of spacetime.

(It should be noted that "vacuum" is a really bad word for this, as it doesn't carry the right implication in colloquial English usage. It would better be described as "ground state," because there's one for each of the fundamental fields -- that is, there is more than one vacuum, not just the vacuum of space, and all of them exist everywhere. It's called "vacuum" because that ground state defines what we refer to as "empty" space.)

There's really no reason to go into problems with the laws of thermodynamics. We already know -- those are statistical laws, not fundamental laws, and so we should expect there to be biases and anomalies on small scales; they only approximately describe long-term large-scale trends.

For the rest, unfortunately, there's a bit of a language barrier here. In English we don't have any thing called a "marbles problem" with the Uncertainty Principle -- it's possible that we have another name for it, but whatever the Serbian term is doesn't translate to it, so I don't know what problem you mean. And while I think I understand that Katarka is a Serbian astrophysicist, I'm not having any luck trying to find information in English about what he(?) was studying.
 
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And one theory for that "something" is a different vacuum collapse, one that would have released enough energy to push the universe into its more modern state without causing runaway expansion of spacetime.
Although we seem to be having a runaway expansion of spacetime anyway, just on a longer timescale...

It really makes me wonder how many times this may have happened.
 
There is no plausible mechanism to undo a vacuum collapse once it's happened. It's a problem of entropy -- the reason collapse is a thing in the first place is that it's energetically favorable to be in a lower vacuum state than a higher vacuum state, but it takes a kick of energy (which could be imparted by quantum tunneling) to make the transition. And because there was a transition to a lower-energy state, the process releases more energy than it consumes, making it possible to trigger a chain reaction. So not only does it take more energy to make the transition the other way, but it releases less energy than it takes to make a transition, which makes it self-limiting instead of self-perpetuating.

What you might be to referring to as a vacuum "restoration" is probably better described as establishing a new vacuum equilibrium. The ground state is still in the lower energy state -- that is, it hasn't been put back where it was before -- but the resulting condition has settled into a new stable state instead of an unstable transition state. You aren't wrong to suggest that the inflationary epoch was triggered by a vacuum collapse and then eventually reached a new equilibrium state as mass and energy were redistributed. But the reheating epoch isn't well-described by a new equilibrium, because that equilibrium would be too cold. So something else must have changed in the universe in order for there to be a widespread increase in energy. And one theory for that "something" is a different vacuum collapse, one that would have released enough energy to push the universe into its more modern state without causing runaway expansion of spacetime.

(It should be noted that "vacuum" is a really bad word for this, as it doesn't carry the right implication in colloquial English usage. It would better be described as "ground state," because there's one for each of the fundamental fields -- that is, there is more than one vacuum, not just the vacuum of space, and all of them exist everywhere. It's called "vacuum" because that ground state defines what we refer to as "empty" space.)

There's really no reason to go into problems with the laws of thermodynamics. We already know -- those are statistical laws, not fundamental laws, and so we should expect there to be biases and anomalies on small scales; they only approximately describe long-term large-scale trends.

For the rest, unfortunately, there's a bit of a language barrier here. In English we don't have any thing called a "marbles problem" with the Uncertainty Principle -- it's possible that we have another name for it, but whatever the Serbian term is doesn't translate to it, so I don't know what problem you mean. And while I think I understand that Katarka is a Serbian astrophysicist, I'm not having any luck trying to find information in English about what he(?) was studying.

Alright since @Snowfire has not signed off on this, but both of you are interested, I'll keep this concise and on topics that were touched upon:

- The very conceptualization of a system in physics has in 21st been under question with on top of matter and energy a concept called spacetime tension being added. If you want the most basic experiment for that concept a scale model of a sail boat with a fan placed on it with enough air circulation to produce movement in the scale model, then do calculations on how such a scale model would move and place it in a water tank/pool with no wind or waves and then place said model into the tank/pool to see how it moves and what deviations exist from your calculation.

Basically it is hypothetically possible that at the end of the inflationary epoch there was a recoil from the spacetime tension as the vacuum collapse of the Big Bang was no longer producing enough energy to cause such rapid expansion leading to the tensional energy of spacetime to be converted into heat through a small amount of volume shrinking. Entropy is still maintained, but the heat of reheating is also explained with this hypothesis.

- The Marble Problem with the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty is the simple question: Does the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty occur because of quantum interaction? Or because of the size of the particles? If you for an example use Alpha particles to observe/measure the locations of Helium atoms would the same effect on data points be observed?

In other words is the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty a quantum principle? Or are we just playing a game of marbles when measuring quantum phenomena with quantum particles and it's a data error principle?

- Katarka is actually the name for an optics concept that was developed in the Republic of Ragusa during their Ottoman years as a means of developing better pirate and smuggling ships. The ships would be shaped and painted in such a way as to appear as part of the sea itself at certain distances whose value was dependent on the time of day. The modern day definition would be "optical interference causing the observer to receive non-original primary data".

The Katarka Problem is currently defined as: At what distance and wavelength does the possibility occur that the data point observed of a celestial phenomena by an observer is no longer the original data point that celestial phenomena produced due to interference and signal decay?

Although we seem to be having a runaway expansion of spacetime anyway, just on a longer timescale...

It really makes me wonder how many times this may have happened.

Dark Energy is something that occurred after the inflationary epoch by the current models and as such may not actually be a type of vacuum collapse. You hypothesis is valid by current models though.
 
- The very conceptualization of a system in physics has in 21st been under question with on top of matter and energy a concept called spacetime tension being added. If you want the most basic experiment for that concept a scale model of a sail boat with a fan placed on it with enough air circulation to produce movement in the scale model, then do calculations on how such a scale model would move and place it in a water tank/pool with no wind or waves and then place said model into the tank/pool to see how it moves and what deviations exist from your calculation.
Oh, that theory. I actually just saw a video about that this morning.

Basically it is hypothetically possible that at the end of the inflationary epoch there was a recoil from the spacetime tension as the vacuum collapse of the Big Bang was no longer producing enough energy to cause such rapid expansion leading to the tensional energy of spacetime to be converted into heat through a small amount of volume shrinking. Entropy is still maintained, but the heat of reheating is also explained with this hypothesis.
Plausible, though it seems a little bit unlikely in the absence of other changes -- the force of gravity in the present day of the universe seems too weak for that to work.

In other words is the Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty a quantum principle? Or are we just playing a game of marbles when measuring quantum phenomena with quantum particles and it's a data error principle?
This problem is purely a pop-science thing caused by poor explanations, not a fundamental issue with the Uncertainty Principle. It occurs for the same reason as the Nyquist limit and it affects all waves, not just quantum particles. The short version is, for any wave of limited duration with a finite observation window, the shorter the wave is, the less precisely you can measure its frequency, but the longer the wave is, the less precisely you can be sure when it starts and stops.

The Katarka Problem is currently defined as: At what distance and wavelength does the possibility occur that the data point observed of a celestial phenomena by an observer is no longer the original data point that celestial phenomena produced due to interference and signal decay?
Strictly speaking, that distance is zero. There will always be interference and decay that makes us uncertain about the measurements, no matter how far away. But the more information we can gather from other sources to corroborate our findings, the more likely we are to be able to account for that signal loss. We have gotten very good at this because we've been making a lot of observations for a long time, so we've constructed a hierarchy of measurements that we can use to interpret new data that we collect. It also lets us understand how confident we are in those measurements, so we can put useful error bars to express a range that the true value is likely to be in given the data that we've analyzed. In fact, the fact that we know the signal gets distorted based on intervening conditions lets us use that as a tool for learning about things in between here and there! There are of course things that we're more unsure of than others, and there's always the possibility that we've misinterpreted things, but the important part is that scientists know about these sources of error and are careful to look for supporting evidence.

All of that said... I'm not 100% sure how any of this actually relates to the subject at hand aside from the first bullet point, which could be interpreted as a reasonable guess about the underlying mechanics of the Fifth Secret.
 
Plausible, though it seems a little bit unlikely in the absence of other changes -- the force of gravity in the present day of the universe seems too weak for that to work.

I...OK. I'm not entirely sure you are correct considering that the inflationary epoch's speed of universal expansion is at minimum the current speed of light, if not much higher, which means that even under current gravity on that scale if such a recoil were to occur it could produce the heat under some hypothesis, but at the same time these are just hypotheticals and at this point I think we have exhausted the topic or at least I have.

This problem is purely a pop-science thing caused by poor explanations, not a fundamental issue with the Uncertainty Principle. It occurs for the same reason as the Nyquist limit and it affects all waves, not just quantum particles. The short version is, for any wave of limited duration with a finite observation window, the shorter the wave is, the less precisely you can measure its frequency, but the longer the wave is, the less precisely you can be sure when it starts and stops.

Huh. I actually did not know that. Do you happen to know how the Uncertainty Principle interacts with the Pilot Wave Theory since it's been non-local sine 2010? Or has no one worked that one out yet?

Strictly speaking, that distance is zero. There will always be interference and decay that makes us uncertain about the measurements, no matter how far away. But the more information we can gather from other sources to corroborate our findings, the more likely we are to be able to account for that signal loss. We have gotten very good at this because we've been making a lot of observations for a long time, so we've constructed a hierarchy of measurements that we can use to interpret new data that we collect. It also lets us understand how confident we are in those measurements, so we can put useful error bars to express a range that the true value is likely to be in given the data that we've analyzed. In fact, the fact that we know the signal gets distorted based on intervening conditions lets us use that as a tool for learning about things in between here and there! There are of course things that we're more unsure of than others, and there's always the possibility that we've misinterpreted things, but the important part is that scientists know about these sources of error and are careful to look for supporting evidence.

All of that said... I'm not 100% sure how any of this actually relates to the subject at hand aside from the first bullet point, which could be interpreted as a reasonable guess about the underlying mechanics of the Fifth Secret.

Well the Katarka concept relies on how people perceive their surroundings and we have already proven that the Shiplord have a distorted perception of the universe and are here at the First Sorrow to find out where the distortion started so we can trace it and hopefully find a way of changing some of the preconceptions of the Shiplords so that a Galactic War doesn't have to be fought. So it can be used to point at certain types of blindspots, but so far none of the ones we have discussed match.

But other than that there is not much use other than me enjoying learning about concepts I hadn't heard of before.
 
Huh. I actually did not know that. Do you happen to know how the Uncertainty Principle interacts with the Pilot Wave Theory since it's been non-local sine 2010? Or has no one worked that one out yet?
There's no particularly special implications. It'll have the same effect whether it's particles riding a wave, or particles that are made of waves. And this is as it should be, if PWT is going to make predictions consistent with other interpretations of quantum physics.

Well the Katarka concept relies on how people perceive their surroundings and we have already proven that the Shiplord have a distorted perception of the universe
That sounds like it's psychological instead of physical, then.

I don't know what is scarier, the fact that I understood half of the discussion, or the fact that I understood half of the discussion.
I've been trying to do my best to communicate the material in an understandable manner, so maybe that's not scary at all. :p
 
That sounds like it's psychological instead of physical, then.

No it's physical as a concept. It just deals with the physics of observation and also by consequence the psychology of observation. Like the most well known example for me in English is a moment in a level in the Splinter Cell stealth games where the player has to go into floodlights and move with them because every guard in the courtyard has put on their night goggles and as such the stealthy thing to do is to move under the brightest lights there is.

Like the basic concept is what else other that the objective data point can produce the same primary observation. I still don't know what the English name/word would be for this. So far the only time we have come close to this concept in this quest is when Amanda did her diplomacy on the simulated Hjivin. So it might be relevant for other Sorrows as well.

I don't know what is scarier, the fact that I understood half of the discussion, or the fact that I understood half of the discussion.

I've been trying to do my best to communicate the material in an understandable manner, so maybe that's not scary at all.

Yeah I've been trying to be as clear, understandable and concise as I can as well.
 
No it's physical as a concept. It just deals with the physics of observation and also by consequence the psychology of observation. Like the most well known example for me in English is a moment in a level in the Splinter Cell stealth games where the player has to go into floodlights and move with them because every guard in the courtyard has put on their night goggles and as such the stealthy thing to do is to move under the brightest lights there is.
Ah, okay, so basically the reason coronagraphs exist. :p
 
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