[x] Partially - Inform Entara of why you were sent with the Sorrowful's codes: You found a path through the Hjivin simulation that no one had ever found before. Offer to assist with her wish of reminding the Shiplords of what they were before they forgot what they were fighting for.
 
I've set a vote closure time, as I've hit the point in the next update where I actually need to know what this will resolve as. This is going to be interesting to write.

Adhoc vote count started by Snowfire on Sep 22, 2022 at 7:34 PM, finished with 34 posts and 23 votes.
 
[X] Partially - Inform Entara of why you were sent with the Sorrowful's codes: You found a path through the Hjivin simulation that no one had ever found before. Offer to assist with her wish of reminding the Shiplords of what they were before they forgot what they were fighting for.
 
[X] Partially - Inform Entara of why you were sent with the Sorrowful's codes: You found a path through the Hjivin simulation that no one had ever found before. Offer to assist with her wish of reminding the Shiplords of what they were before they forgot what they were fighting for.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Snowfire on Sep 15, 2022 at 6:34 PM, finished with 36 posts and 25 votes.
 
Candles to Lanterns
The truth of the Gysians' restoration was a simple one, when all's said and done. The fleets sent to end their race faltered at the last step, recognising the horror that they were about to commit less than a day before it would've been too late to undo. A day may sound like plentiful time, but it didn't feel like that to those aboard the few, bleeding orbitals that remained habitable following the Shiplords' celestial bombardment. The details of their salvation were far more complex.

"None of us could believe it at first," Entara explained, having led you to a viewing deck deeper within the orbital's hull, this one far more intact. It was spartanly appointed, the walls lined with projection ports and carpeted in an odd green-grey. Feedback from your Masque implied comfort, but nothing decadent. A projection had been formed at the centre of the chamber, the same one you'd disrupted, only accelerated a few hours. The Shiplord formation had shredded, groups of ancient War Fleet craft escorting the vulnerable shipyard complexes towards the remaining orbitals. Two signal patterns warred across that fleet, visible to Gysian sensors, and recordings entrusted to the Sorrow at its creation filled in the detail.

From the ships that remained at the edge of the system came demands of duty, almost desperate in their tone. Calls to remember what this race had done, what they'd risked, what must be done to protect creation. But they were terribly outnumbered by those inside the Stellar Exclusion Zone, who tore into those arguments with a passion that was hard to ascribe to the species you'd rarely seen more than coldness or sorrow from. They spoke of monsters, and the becoming of such, and how this was far enough. They had breached the line of sanity already in their butchery of the system's worlds, and you could feel the tears in their voices without any translations. But not all of those tears were sad. Some were hot, angry, and utterly ruthless as they demanded better of their comrades.

"We thought it was some sort of cruel ruse, a play that we might believe and surrender to without fighting." As you watched, fire flickered out from the remains of emplacements around the orbital closest to the SEZ's terminator, licking at shields that were far more capable than the ones War Fleet craft used today. That group withdrew out of effective range, but no further. A few moments later, the shipyard complex spat several dozen slow-moving cargo pods out towards the orbital at the same time as a transmission, pleading for those aboard to accept the supplies aboard.

"Some of those there on that day would tell you it was one even now," Entara added, "if they would ever deign to remove themselves from storage. I admit, I almost wish they would some days." The Gysian made an abrupt gesture of negation, like a headshake but with the light and shadow around them, twisting it into new forms. "But some of our orbitals didn't have much choice. Last Cry was one of them. Either we accepted aid, or our systems would fail. A few refused even then, choosing death over whatever they thought the Shiplords had in store for us. But here it played out differently."

"Why?" You asked. "Why did they let you live?"

Entara took a breath, their eyes flickering back to the projection. "It was a moment of clarity for many of them. A realisation of all they'd believed and betrayed. But it would be better to listen to their own reasons, I think." A swift, grasping gesture and a new recording overruled the others currently playing.

"...and it is enough, I tell you!" The voice felt oddly familiar, the nanomaterial shell around the Shiplord burning with energy and radiating an almost violent passion. "We have fought and we have died and we have killed for the Authority, to save all reality from weapons that would have ended everything. But that is done now, and it must be allowed to be done. That it comes from the begging of children is shameful, but we must recognise our duty.

"Preservation, my fellows. Not destruction." The voice hardened, the weight behind it chilling you even separated by millions of years of time. "And never genocide. Not for this sin."

The recording cut off, leaving a silence that only deepened as you considered what you'd just heard.

"Who was that?" You asked at last.

"The one who gave you the codes you bear, who we call the Sorrowful," Entara replied. "She was a squadron commander then, utterly unprepared for the weight that her actions here would set upon her shoulders. She wasn't alone in speaking out like this; you can see that from the display." Indeed you could. Of the Shiplord War Fleet, almost eighty percent of it had abandoned their tactical formations.

"But her words struck in a way none of the others did. They turned horror into resolution, and scattered revolt into a movement that still holds power today," they swept one hand out, circling their odd fingers in a gesture that encompassed the entire station. "They're why this place exists. And why I'm standing here, able to speak about the shared past we lost together. And the future my people hope for."

"And what future is that?" you asked. Your Masque shifted around you, cycling between curiosity, concern and more passionate expressions of the same.

"It's simple," Entara replied. "We want peace. Just like you."

For a moment you didn't breathe.

"The Sorrowful wouldn't have given her codes to anyone who didn't believe as we do. I've seen how you've reacted to the truths here, the questions you've asked, and the real ones behind them," Entara continued, seemingly oblivious of your sudden tension. The tactical link that had sprung to life in an instant quieted, though the strategies within remained. It was a little disturbing how good you'd become at producing those.

"And what do you see in us, then?" Vega asked. Her Masque had shifted to a posture of polite curiosity for Entara's sake, but you could feel the intense focus and Focus that she had prepared for the answer.

Entara considered the question, anticipatory lights kindling and shifting around them, the flickering tones a language all of its own. Here shades of curiosity, there ones of worry, apprehension, glimpses of possibility. And through them all, flickers of that most terrible thing you could imagine for such an ancient being.

Hope.

"I'm not sure yet," they told you. "Your perspective is different, fresh in a way I have not seen in centuries. But that would not be a reason for Kicha to give you her own identifier codes. She's never done that. Which means you did something much more significant than look at things in a different way." Stutter-lights fluttered, a Gysian nod. "You did something at the Third Sorrow."

There was a moment, time enough to take a breath, to begin an answer but Entara ploughed through the attempt. "What was it?"

And there it was. The question that you'd avoided and deflected from at the First Sorrow when asked by its Warden. Rinel had seemed sincere, but he'd still been a Shiplord, and trust was a difficult thing to build with only one true conversation after billions dead and decades of silence. Which led to the question - was Entara a Shiplord? Their people were certainly culturally distinct, having held onto something clearly their own despite integration into a population so many times their own size. But it wasn't just that. Entara's people hadn't been driven into hiding by the very nature of their existence, forced to live in a constant state of suspicion or paranoia. They bore scars, that much was certainly true, but they were ancient on the same scale as Kicha's own. And there was something else, a sense of quiet power that shone through them. Not a strength of will, not a presence of authority. No, this was something more fundamental.

It wasn't Practice; you would have sensed that sort of power immediately. But there was a bone-deep certainty that came from living for such a long time. A conviction that had survived millions of cycles, and that didn't seem to understand the meaning of surrender. Was it the same thing that had driven their people to their near-fatal rebellion? Or was it something else entirely?

"You don't know," Entara told you, voice soft and gentle. "But I can tell you that if you want peace, then you have the chance to make it happen."

"You can't say that." Your voice broke under the surge of emotions pouring between your Heartcircle as you spoke, and you looked your guide right in their odd, glowing eyes. "You can't say that to me. Not after everything," you broke off sharply, shuddering as that torrent thundered into you.

You could feel Kalilah's fury, the searing, fusion-bright pain that made it real. You could feel Mir's hope, the implacable power of the man's Focus resonating with words of promised Peace that this reaction made unquestionable. Elil's curiosity, Lea's concern, and from Vega...oh, from Vega. She did what she always did, finding the harmony between all of you. That same treacherous, fragile hope that had started after Kicha and that now saw itself reflected in the Gysian in front of you.

"I can," Entara replied, unflinching. "Because I've seen it happen before."

You squeezed your eyes closed, as if that could shut out the voice. And yet at the same time, unable to stop yourself, you reached out.

:Iris, how secure is this room?: You sent, and the riot of feelings ground suddenly to nothing.

:You can't-: :How can we-: :There's too muc-: It all blended together, but you were only listening for one voice.

:The only audio-visual was outside, and this place has privacy screens.: Your daughter told you. She was worried, but not about her answer. About what your question meant. :Any specific location seems limited to medical scans only. And we're already spoofing those with the Masques, which is good considering how crazy you're driving each other's biochemistry right now.:

:Can we do this?:
You asked. There was absolutely no need to elaborate on what 'this' was.

:Can, yes.: Iris confirmed. :Should, we'll have to see. But I think.... I think it's better than doing nothing. Much better.:

You reached out across the connections deeper than thought to your Heartcircle, recovering painfully slowly from the shock. But none of them disagreed, not even Kalilah. Entara and their people had survived, and as much as you hated to admit it, they'd spoken truly just now. They had seen it happen before. And you had...you had to know.

"You did," you said haltingly. It cost you to even admit that. "But what happened afterwards?"

"What about," Entara began, only to halt as your Masque twisted into a harsh negation.

"Please," you said, all but begging. "We need to know, before...anything else. What is the shape of your people today, compared to what was?"

More light flickered, in it motions of confusion and concern for you, but also an acceptance you'd not expected. Then, the same flicker-light nod.

"Very well." Entara raised their hands, sweeping them out and the system holo shifted again. It was still an ancient recording, but the orbitals had been tended to now - all but one that had gone cold and dark.

"When the recordings from the Hearthguard reached the Shiplord Authority, the response was a mess of stellar proportions," they continued. "Some wanted us wiped out regardless, but most saw the truth that the early leaders in this system had reacted to so violently. The Gysians who'd tried to annihilate reality were all dead, and the remaining production capacity of our orbitals would've taken years to produce one of our devices, assuming they could access the required feedstocks, which they couldn't. Of those orbitals that remained, one had already died after refusing any and all aid. But all the others eventually accepted the possibility, however slight, that our would-be killers might have had a change of heart. None of us really believed it then, but when the only other option is extinction, it's hard to argue.

"I'm not going to tell you that we're who we were before the war. We aren't, but that's not entirely a bad thing. I was only a child of that world, but I've read enough about it to recognise what drove us to try and weaponize a universe-ender, and it wasn't anything complicated. It was xenophobia, a belief that only our kind were truly people. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, it was subtle with us. I think Shiplords would've taught us differently if they'd recognised it, but I'm not sure we'd have been willing to learn even then."

"What do you mean?" asked Mary.

"I mean that the reason our race was almost destroyed was because, from our perspective, the Shiplords proved themselves liars." You very carefully stopped yourself from asking if that was some sort of joke, letting your guide continue with their explanation. "They said they were teachers, but refused to teach us everything. So my predecessors went looking, and when the Shiplords tried to get them to stop, would've ended everything just so they could be right. I don't think any of them knew; they were xenophobic, not nihilistic. But they still did it. And that subtle way of looking at the world was something that the Shiplords knew they had to address."

"Address how?" Vega's voice was steady, but only just. Hardly surprising, given the topic.

"I think it was the first time they'd ever had to confront the fact that there was no way to 'win' a war with us," Entara said. "Not without becoming the monsters that they stopped just short of becoming, and destroying a vibrant, living piece of the universe that they loved so completely. So they had to choose. Life for our people, but people of a different kind from those who'd come before. We'd always have changed; near-extinction isn't something a race recovers from free of scars. The Shiplords just chose the scars we'd remember. They took us into your civilisation, and offered us a place beside them. Fair representation, support, and security. Everything we'd need to rebuild, and a solemn guarantee that we'd never be threatened with extinction again.

"And it worked. Our planets were rebuilt, our people restored, but it wasn't the same. The Shiplords of the time helped us be better than our ancestors, and they succeeded. But at the same time, they destroyed us." Entara paused, and light leached from the air, casting a pained smile across the comfortable room. And a terrible horror gripped you. "I am Gysian. I am a member of Shiplord civilisation. I am a Warden of the Hearthguard, those who remember, and I was there on the day that this place exists to recall. And that means I can recognise the truth easier than most.

"I am Gysian, yes. But I'm not Gysian as my mother and father were. As my grandsires and greatmothers, or beyond. We live, we are free, but we were never given the opportunity to reclaim what we'd been. The Shiplords of the time considered it too dangerous, and so that was the price of our survival. Don't think poorly of them for this. It was never demanded, but your people never tried to hide it, either. It simply was. And they gave everything they promised. All we had to give up was the part of our psyche that made us threaten everything."

"And that," Entara swept their hand through the system holo a final time, returning it to a modern viewpoint. "Is the truth."

"And do you think," you struggled with the words, "that is the shape of any peace the Shiplords could make?"

"No," they replied without hesitation. "No one they fight today is such a threat. No matter how some parts of the Authority feel. They're wrong."

"And you're sure of that?"

Entara gave you another flicker-light nod. "I am."

"Then let me tell you what we did at the Third. " You grimaced. There was no easy way to give this truth.

:Just be true.: Vega told you. :That's all they're wanting.:

:And I'll just be here, ready to commit murder,:
Kalilah growled. The older woman's fury hadn't faded in the least, but it wasn't directed at the ancient Warden in front of you anymore. That was something, but it made the statement she'd made even harder for her. :Make it count, Amanda.:

:I will.:


"We found a way out of the trap of the Sphere," you said. Subtle, subtle light blossomed around Entara's body: energy, wonder and strengthening hope. "One that actually worked, and that had never even been touched before. But doing so cost us something."

:Sidra?: You asked.

:You really are a fan of the grand gesture.: Your Unison replied in the feeling of an amused headshake. :But then, I suppose so am I. You're sure?:

"What?" Your host asked hastily, the light around them spiralling like a mad prism. "If there was a solution, a real one, I'm sure any cost could be easily-"

:I have to be.: You raised your voice in reality. "It revealed us." Whatever Entara had expected, it hadn't been that and the Gysian's speech screeched to a stuttering halt. You kept talking.

"My name is Amanda Hawke. I was born forty-six cycles ago, on a planet my people call Earth. The solution we found at the Third Sorrow drew upon the gift that has allowed my species to rise to challenge the Shiplords in less than fifty cycles since our first contact with them. That gift is how we're here. It's why Kicha gave us codes, and more than that. I've seen the First, Third and Fifth Sorrows, and though I recognise their purpose, none of them have given me an answer."

:Now.: Kicha retracted your Masque, and you looked out with your eyes, brilliant blue meeting the flickering colour of Entara's own, a nimbus of light and power surrounding the ancient Gysian.

"Can you give me one?"
 
There's another half to this coming, which I've already made a start on, but I want to put this out because it's a solid bridging section - and also because I've not updated this quickly in literal years. Rhythm is important, and I'd like to try and get it again. I'm only saying this because most of this section was written in a single night, in a way I haven't had in far too long.

I'd like to try an hold onto that.

Many thanks to @Baughn and @Coda as always for checking my work.

No vote this time, but if you have questions about what happened to the Gysians, how they've changed, and why, you can ask those with a good chance of being answered now. Amanda knows enough to give informed responses on that score.
 
…Hrm.
How's the line from out history go? Which line to use…?
Ah.
Kill the Indian, Save the Man.
The Shiplords scar with the Tributes and spying to slowly convert any new race into one that is 'safe'. But in doing so… They dull the vibrancy of colours of that race in the process…

IDK if it was intentional in your writing Snow, but it struck me that humans with Practice seem to go hand in hand with Light, a light that dispels the darkness, the oppressive fear the Shiplords cast.
And here… the Gysians, seem to carry that same association, but theirs is more communication, and limited, in comparison.
 
So it was Kicha, with the Star Trek speech, who finally brought it to a halt. I have to respect that Kicha has stuck by that sentiment, even as the wheels of history have driven the words of the Sorrowful into a mocking reminder rather than a girding of ethical standards.

The Gysians survived by being... integrated maybe is the word that fits? After the Shiplords stopped their eradication, they picked up the pieces by stepping all the way in and bringing the survivors into the Shiplord nation. There's not a tiny Gysian polity left under a Shiplord microscope, neither is it not a peace between nations in any sense as we'd understand it. The Gysians were conquered, is the better way to put it, and the Shiplords decided that the ethical way to proceed would be to not have a Gysian underclass hanging around like a loose thread. They were brought in fully, and self-admittedly forcefully, and in the present day that means there's... a Gysian ethnic group in Shiplord society?

The historical comparisons I'm familiar with in similar 'programs' in parts of North America and Australia tended to be, shall we say, nightmarish, so I'm not going to look down my nose too far at an outcome that appears to have averaged out to moderately decent over the past however many thousand years. But, my 'yikes' reaction isn't what I'd call undeserved either. Neither is Amanda's well earned 'I can't believe it's not literally complete genocide' mindset, thanks so much to ongoing horror show that is everything the Shiplords do on a daily basis since a very very long time ago.

Edit: Real life humans doing worse things to each other for nothing resembling any kind of good reason makes it hard to be too critical of, you know, the Shiplords actually stopping themselves and trying to do an ethics goodish. But looking back on this as a historical high point for Shiplord ethics decisions is double dipping for extra horror. The poor away team must be suffering an even more visceral whiplash than any of us are getting from the other side of the internet mirror, because the kind of prominence these places have in Shiplord society for the kind of missing the incredibly obvious point that Kicha and the Gysians here are staring down on a daily basis is... devastating misery.
 
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The historical comparisons I'm familiar with in similar 'programs' in parts of North America and Australia tended to be, shall we say, nightmarish, so I'm not going to look down my nose too far at an outcome that appears to have averaged out to moderately decent over the past however many thousand years. But, my 'yikes' reaction isn't what I'd call undeserved either. Neither is Amanda's well earned 'I can't believe it's not literally complete genocide' mindset, thanks so much to ongoing horror show that is everything the Shiplords do on a daily basis since a very very long time ago.
The other part to keep in mind is the sheer scale of time at play here. Both in terms of length of time for society to change and in terms of the age of some of the members.
 
Anyway, I'm actually kind of interested about what Gysians having fair representation (at least in theory) looks like. I don't remember seeing anything that has thus far explicitly broken down how the Shiplord government works, especially with the Shiplord society thing of everyone being indefinitely immortal and putting on old jobs like hats and being stratified about hat wearing rules and I think I lost the metaphor.

But yeah, the Shiplords are definitely advanced enough they could just do direct democracy like we could hardly dream of, and people could just use their neural enhancement tech to spend short amounts of real time to engage with the the lawmaking and decisionmaking processes in ways beyond me to elaborate without having a dedicated full time political class (and all the attendant potential problems therein). But I very much get the impression that they don't.

So do Gysians get to vote? (Does, in fact, ANYONE who, back to the hat metaphor, has not earned a Authority hat?) Do they get representatives? Are they Gysian representatives? Does the Gysian diaspora dilute the Gysian vote in uncomfortably familiar ways for people affected by USA elections, or do Shiplords spend the ethics points freed up by not investing in antigenocide upgrades on election reforms? What does being represented even mean, originally or these days?

(Can we influence the Shiplord government through popular appeal, or are they too insulated from the public for that to have any impact? How stable is their government, really, and what kind of relationship does the military have with the rest of their society in practice? Will we finalize Amanda Hawk's incoming stress explosion by arriving at Shiplord Central Command only to see her fake Hearthguard-hacked identity win as a write-in candidate on an upcoming snap election? Concerned citizens want to know!)
 
But yeah, the Shiplords are definitely advanced enough they could just do direct democracy like we could hardly dream of, and people could just use their neural enhancement tech to spend short amounts of real time to engage with the the lawmaking and decisionmaking processes in ways beyond me to elaborate without having a dedicated full time political class (and all the attendant potential problems therein). But I very much get the impression that they don't.
I can't get into all of your post here - which is very good, thank you for that. But there is a restriction to direct democracy at the sort of scale the Shiplords operate. It's called interstellar bandwidth. The Shiplords have a distributed and highly advanced interstellar communications network, but even that has its limits. From what little Entara described in the leadup to this, there are varying levels of direct interaction with the levers of power - something to keep in mind here is that the choice to develop and deploy starkillers against the Sphere was only done after a polity-scale plebiscite on the matter. But for the most part, that direct link to the levers of power isn't utilised.

And the only reason that vote passed was because the other path to victory would have made the one facing humanity if you fail here look like a cakewalk.
 
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But there is a restriction to direct democracy at the sort of scale the Shiplords operate. It's called interstellar bandwidth.

Interesting. Makes chunking the populace into representative groups by location more likely, if that's the wall their tech runs up against. If the fundamental limit is bandwidth, and you assume they want to genuinely try to give the populace a voice, then however they divide up the voting power (there are a variety of options) when it comes to representatives it's probably a minimum of one per star system so that the everyone has some sort of representative that can actually speak for them at need, rather than having to build consensus with interstellar email chains.
 
Of Paths and What is True
In the subjective eternity of silence that followed, you wondered if perhaps you'd been too forceful in stripping back the veil of secrecy. Entara stood frozen across from you, bathed in radiance that glinted off the silver of your Aegis. You could feel Iris' presence stretched out around the place, your daughter standing ready to muffle any emergency signals that might alert the enemy.

Instead Entara blinked once, twice, then nodded slowly. "Yes. Yes, I think I can."

Their eyes never left yours, and you didn't drop your gaze either. The brightness was effortless for Kicha to filter away, and your instincts told you that it was somehow important. Those were, admittedly, the same instincts that had suggested such a total stripping of your own veil. But those were your instincts, and you'd trusted them many times, in situations just as crucial as this. A sense for the nature of a place in space, time and emotion. Perhaps it was fortunate that you didn't need them for your next question.

"Will you?" The Gysian considered you, and your question, for a moment longer. Then the light around them died away.

"I will try." Entara said. "But it's no simple thing you're asking."

"If it was, I wouldn't be here," you replied, grimacing. Then, realising that your guide had absolutely no context for your expressions, you offered. "We have a contact package that should be compatible with your systems, if you'd like it?"

"Of course you do," Entara sighed. "Thank you, but no, it's not necessary. News and details of your people have reached us even here. Especially here, in truth, but not because of my species."

"Because you're part of the Hearthguard?" Mary asked. Notably, she didn't retract her Masque. A good thing, honestly. Of all of you, Mary was the only one who lacked truly superhuman capabilities outside the protection of the covert nanoshells.

"Ultimately yes," Entara said. Light pulsed in a pattern of sympathy. "The Hearthguard are an extension of the Sorrows. We are their guardians, and their protectors. It is our duty to see them remembered, and the responsibility we accept in doing so is a heavy one. It used to be heavier, when we were able to wield real power in the Authority. It's been a long time since those days, but if what you gave Kicha is real that could be about to change. And I'll be needed in that."

You cocked your head curiously and Entara chuckled. "Think about it. I don't know exactly who you are, Amanda Hawke, but I know no race would send idiots here if they found a way past the shimmer-shells. We were the success story, but also the moment of monstrosity just-avoided, and that has power even today. If not for the Sphere, it would have been enough to save those we remember at the Fifth Sorrow. But if Kicha can offer a solution to the Third's Dilemma, something no one has been able to do ever since the Sorrow's founding…" They shook their head.

"It's hard to explain because you lack the proper context. But to do this, to be truly heard, Kicha is going to have to call on all the weight of this Sorrow's history in a way that hasn't been done in more than half a million cycles.. The actions that created the Hearthguard, all they saved, and all it proved." Entara gestured inwards, up and down at their body. "I'm a living example of both of those things and a Warden, too. But that's only one answer, and it's not the only one I can offer you."

"You're saying that there are other ways?" You asked, curious.

"Oh, there are always other ways," Entara said, nodding. "But to be effective, they need to be tailored to the needs of the situation. And I'm one of a very few beings still alive who would know how to give you the path to this one. I think that's why Kicha gave you her codes." They paused, tilting their head in a mimicry of you. "Let me guess, she suggested that you come to the First and Second first?"

You nodded along, not even trying to hide the confusion you felt. "That's right. How did you know?"

Entara chuckled, touching a hand to their throat. "Kicha isn't as subtle as she thinks. Few people are when you've known them for more than a million cycles, but this is particularly obvious and– I'm sorry, I'm being cryptic when I promised you answers."

You nodded again, unsure if you could trust yourself not to growl or burst out laughing if you spoke in reply.

"In the interest of clarity, what I'm about to give you isn't an answer. It's only a path to one, and you'll have to walk that without me because it's not in this star system." You failed to suppress a sigh. Of course it wasn't. "But it's also your best shot, if you're capable of what I think you are. All of our best shots, really."

"What are you talking about?" You asked. Surely she couldn't mean-

"How did you know the Sorrows existed?" Entara replied, quite calmly. "As much as I despise their existence, I know that the Tribute Fleet database couldn't have told you. No one except Shiplords have visited these star systems in well over a million cycles, so that rules out the current crop of victims." From another those words would have been pithy at best. From Entara, they cut like knives forged of anguish. "So how did you know how to reach these Sorrows?"

"I-" you began, only for Entara to wave the deflection aside.

"That's what I'm talking about, Amanda Hawke." They reached out and light swelled between outstretched fingers, spiralling into the space like the formation of a miniature star. Sidra stripped away the blinding aspect of the light, and you watched in awe as something formed within the display of theatre and mastery of at least two Secrets. Then her fingers closed around the softly glowing cube she'd...called? Created? It was hard to be sure.

"This will answer any other questions you might have about this Sorrow," Entara said, flicking it into the air towards you. You caught it deftly, recognising a data storage module when you saw one. "For the rest, two things. Go to the Fourth Sorrow and tell Warden Yarin to show you the last memory."

"Why can't you just tell us here?" Kalilah snapped, her tone just above a growl. "It's getting tiring, being shuffled about like this."

"Because some things must be seen to be learned. And," your guide added swiftly, before Kalilah could erupt, "because I don't know what you'll find there. I have guesses, but you need the truth."

That stopped Kalilah short, where almost nothing else could've done so. It rocked you all back on your mental heels, in fact. Something at the Fourth Sorrow, something that the Shiplords...didn't know? But they'd built the Sorrows, hadn't they? How couldn't they know what they all contained?

:Answers only make more questions indeed,: you groused good-naturedly to the rest.

"There would also be the small matter of how I consider the oaths I swore to this place quite binding, and I am not one to easily discard a vow older than your species." Light flashed again, gentler this time, a visual addition to the Gysian's limited smile. They had picked that up very quickly. Kicha had said the same thing, too. That a Warden could only speak of their own Sorrow. "But that would only cause arguments if I made it my central cause."

"But what about," Mary burst out.

"The storage device I've given you will tell you everything about this place," Entara repeated. "But I can answer a few more of your questions before you go, if you are adamant about it. I won't tell you anything about the Fourth, or what I think you'll find there. You should reach that place with clear eyes. Anything else within my knowledge or purview and not restricted by sworn word, I will answer."

You may ask Entara up to five questions. They won't tell you about the Fourth Sorrow, or what they think is waiting for you there, but pretty much anything else that wouldn't be truly restricted information is fair game. This will be a Gysian perspective on any matters, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Please note that asking lots of questions will likely telescope the update and add lag time - that or I'll just split it.

There will be a 12 hour moratorium on this vote.

What must you know?
[] Write-in.
 
Feels extremely weird to be writing this in the same week as the last one, but here we are. This one is much shorter, but it covers the important bits and leads into letting you decide what else you think is important. Many thanks as always to my betas. It was really nice to get this to them so quickly.

We'll have a 12 hour moratorium for people to work out what they think is important.

Oh, and we'll do approval voting for this if the number of questions increases to that point.
 
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[]Why the oath of not talking about the other Sorrows? This isn't about violating the oath, its about that to our understanding of the role the Sorrows play such an oath is actively counterproductive, so clearly that understanding is flawed. So perhaps the real question is, leaving aside the nature of each individual Sorrow, what are the Sorrows as a whole and what role do they play in Shiplord society?

[]What are Shiplord governance and politics like? What are the political institutions, and what political currents and factions are at play? So basically Shiplord Civics 101 and the current political news. (Ex. if this was asked about the US it would be answered by giving a brief summary of state vs federal, the three components of the federal government, a brief overview of the policies of the republican and democratic parties, and bringing up trumpism, the midterms coming up ... etc)
 
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I kind of wish the Gysian perspective was one where there were more…Relaxed/touristy questions that could be asked but uhh.
I'm kind of drawing a blank here.
 
If we really want, this is a chance to get an answer about truly mysterious things, like why certain Secrets and technologies (like AI) are restricted either explicitly or indirectly.

Unless one of the Sorrows we've yet to see covers that.
 
I like @mastigos suggestions.

What else...

Why do they call themselves Shiplords? (We know some of who they conduct themselves as, but how did they start? Who were they, as far as the Gysians/Shiplords can still speak to that?)

I'd honestly like to ask about Secrets, though I'm not sure exactly what to ask. The Shiplords seem like they have a weird relationship with them, though not really in the 'they made them' or 'they worship them' or 'they are just overall terrified of them' senses.

Are the Gysians the only additional species in the Shiplord society? If not, given their length of history before they went genocidal, why only Gysians? Why hold themselves apart before the past several million years? Connected, why haven't the Shiplords gone Uninvolved before the Sorrows if so many of their friends(?) did? What about the Gysians? How do Shiplords feel about the Uninvolved back then, versus now?

Why did the Shiplords approach the Gysian integration question as a matter of choosing inflicted trauma rather than a matter of healing? Or is that just the current trauma-focused interstellar policy being used to view Shiplord decisions of past eras?

What has become of the Second Secret in Shiplord society? Is it relegated to only horrors and health and appearance? Do they (did they ever) have friends, companions, children, new life and hope born of the Secrets, the ache of the lack of which now aches across the stars banned from the practice?

What do the Shiplords see in the stars they claim to defend, and have now so often snuffed out? What does Entara see?

Edit: Also, yeah, what's up with the no lingering between stars warning? If there's an actual important reason now would be a great time to be explicit for once.
 
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* Why the oath of not talking about the other Sorrows?

Ooh, I like this one. It's something that we won't have an answer to in the data packet. Though I'd like to expand upon it:
[] Can you explain the oaths that the Hearthguard swear?

* What is Shiplord governance and politics like?
I might vote for this one, but we might already know more about this in-character than we do as players. Then again, Entara's perspective would be good.
 
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We've heard this before:
"Because," she explained, in the same voice of dead sand, "there is a reason that we reacted the way we did to what the Uninvolved did. Not their taking of action; that happened at the First Sorrow. But the way they did so here. The comparison is like night and day. And I am sorry, but I cannot explain why. You must see it for yourselves."
And, having been to both of the museums preceding the Sphere War Museum, we're not actually any closer to getting an answer to this one. And as far as I can tell it's not actually possible to get an answer without finding someone who's allowed to talk about multiple Sorrows, with a level of clarity of communication that the Shiplords seem institutionally allergic to.

Might as well try though.

[] We were told to come here to find out why the Shiplords reacted so badly to the Third Sorrow, and so far nothing we've found looks like an answer. Please help us out here.
 
why the Shiplords reacted so badly to the Third Sorrow

It's a question worth asking, because it feels like 95% of it already fits, but the remaining 5% is one of those pieces of info we really need. I think most of it makes sense in the light of this context:

the choice to develop and deploy starkillers against the Sphere was only done after a polity-scale plebiscite on the matter. But for the most part, that direct link to the levers of power isn't utilised.

And the only reason that vote passed was because the other path to victory would have made the one facing humanity if you fail here look like a cakewalk.

From the Shiplord perspective, they had a nailbiting plebiscite over the very concept of messing up stars as a near-ultimate form of asset denial. They felt horrible about it, but it worked. They pushed the Sphere back, won the day, and even did a good ethics, much better than the Gysian thing after they totally learned that lesson, by stopping and letting them go Uninvolved rather than turning a won war into a complete genocide.

And then some godlike being from another dimension leaned in from outside their frame of reference, grabbed the star they were so proud of not exploding, and used the star to finish the genocide. They were (and are) so horrified by this that the only part of the Uninvolved's explanation that registers on an emotional level is the bit where they explained Uninvolved could do horrible things from their dimension next door. They reacted to this by building nets and weapons and generally not being understanding.

Their overall negative reaction hangs together for me, though the emotional strength of it and the reason they react so harshly because of the First Sorrow intervention is where I lose the plot currently. I think we've got number crunching going on that's supposed to finish before we get to the Fourth Sorrow that's supposed to give us a better idea of this question, based on the unsorted database we pulled from a monument in the First Sorrow using Practice, so we'll hopefully get an answer one way or another!

Potential votes in vote format. I really like the Hearthguard oaths question as well in particular, and I'd be happy to winnow my suggestions down or pick up other good ones. We probably don't NEED to know about the Second Secret too much, for example, I'm just curious.

[] Why do they call themselves Shiplords?

[] What has become of the Second Secret in Shiplord society?

[] Are the Gysians the only additional species in the Shiplord society?

[] What purpose does the warning to not linger in the dark between the stars serve, and why is it a warning and not a Directive?
 
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[x] Can you explain the oaths that the Hearthguard swear?
(@mastigos How do you like this compared to yours? I think it incorporates yours and then a little more.)

[x] What is Shiplord governance and politics like?

Oh, I like this one.
[x] What purpose does the warning to not linger in the dark between the stars serve, and why is it a warning and not a Directive?
 
Can you explain the oaths that the Hearthguard swear?
(@mastigos How do you like this compared to yours? I think it incorporates yours and then a little more.)

What is Shiplord governance and politics like?

Oh, I like this one.
What purpose does the warning to not linger in the dark between the stars serve, and why is it a warning and not a Directive?
I'd actually completely disagree. Mine ultimately is "what purpose do the Sorrows serve in Shiplord Society and why are they designed as such?". It's about the interface between the Sorrows and society. Yours is about the interface between the Sorrows and the Hearthguard

[X]not a vote but it won't let me post without
 
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