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The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

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[X] Plan A Perfect Ending
-[X] Remove the body from the home. Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.
-[X] Tidy up the house as best you can so when Liyu comes home everything looks good. Most importantly, make Liyu's bed so it looks as inviting as possible.
-[X] If possible, wrangle the dog to be at the home when Liyu returns. Friendly dogs bring joy and comfort.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Enjous plan doesn't involve leaving a letter or lying to Liyu. It involves removing Lirens body, permanently, and tidying up the house. We thereby remove the event that ruins Liyus "perfect day" that allows the Kukuni to reset the day.
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Apologies, I got my plans mixed but a bit there.

That being said there is at least one point I want to relitigate:

Why would the Kukuni deliberately fuck itself over?

Kukuni aren't human. A Human might decide that they'll sell out their principles for the sake of power, but a Kukuni is it's moment. It'd be one thing if the argument was the Kukuni cannot help Liren, but it's being argued that it's deliberately trying to sabotage the perfect day.

It's also arguing very had that the day will be perfect, MUST be perfect.... and you're saying it's leaving a great sticking turd of a corpse in its day on purpose?

I think the simpler answer is the Kukuni just cannot understand what makes Liyu care that there's a corpse in the house. Heck, it outright stated as much.
Vesvius said:
"You mortals are untidy. Messy. You contaminate the world around you with worthless thoughts and useless sentiments."

<Annoyance. Anger. Disgust.>

Mei Daiyu turns the egg in her grasp, examining it idly. "The very setting of this conversation pollutes the world. We could be speaking anywhere. A still meadow or a remote cave. In fact, there need not be a setting at all; the world around us could be empty, leaving only the things that matter."

"Yet we are here," she murmurs. "Here in a place of sentiment. Of meaning. Of mortality."
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This thing is a Reddit Atheist. It wants to make a 'perfect day', but it cannot understand the Sentiments and emotions that go into making a Perfect day or moment actually perfect. Like...

Why did a village full of people lie to a child about her Father? Because they cared about her happiness. This thing would never understand that except in the abstract.

This is probably a big part of why I think the Funeral is the core part, in terms of thematics, though I don't think Perfect Day plan exactly distracts from it. It's still having the funeral after all.

Not only is a Funeral a ceremony of closure, but a funeral is PURELY sentimental. There's nothing to be gained from it in terms of raw serotonin, nothing as simple as "Catch more fish" or "All tools nice". It's a sad moment, but also a happy one.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
Kukuni aren't human. A Human might decide that they'll sell out their principles for the sake of power, but a Kukuni is it's moment. It'd be one thing if the argument was the Kukuni cannot help Liren, but it's being argued that it's deliberately trying to sabotage the perfect day.

It's also arguing very had that the day will be perfect, MUST be perfect.... and you're saying it's leaving a great sticking turd of a corpse in its day on purpose?
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Yes. As Kong Zhi noted, it could now keep Liren alive until the end of the day if the kukuni wanted to. But it doesn't. Because then it couldn't repeat the day and cycle its moment and grow stronger. We see Kong Zhi come to this conclusion.
Vesvius said:
So what would happen to a Kukuni born from a day of wonder and joy that ended in heartbreaking tragedy?

…it too would become twisted and wrong.

It would fight to finish the Day that was supposed to give it its true, proper form. And every time it failed, it would cycle its moment anew, making it worse, and worse and worse.

...

It probably could achieve its original goal now if it wanted to. It's certainly strong enough to sustain Liren's health long enough to speak with Liyu. But by now, Liyu's been twisted by the day as surely as everything else has.

And besides… if it fixed things, how would it repeat its moment again?
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Thor's Twin said:
Yes. As Kong Zhi noted, it could now keep Liren alive until the end of the day if the kukuni wanted to. But it doesn't. Because then it couldn't repeat the day and cycle its moment and grow stronger. We see Kong Zhi come to this conclusion.
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...Right, I missed that.


Alright I know nothing and can't even read. Fuck me I guess.

Edit: I would have appreciated getting that quoted at me before I contributed jackshit to this thread, tbu yeah no, this is on me. Fucking hell.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
Apologies, I got my plans mixed but a bit there.

That being said there is at least one point I want to relitigate:

Why would the Kukuni deliberately fuck itself over?

Kukuni aren't human. A Human might decide that they'll sell out their principles for the sake of power, but a Kukuni is it's moment. It'd be one thing if the argument was the Kukuni cannot help Liren, but it's being argued that it's deliberately trying to sabotage the perfect day.

It's also arguing very had that the day will be perfect, MUST be perfect.... and you're saying it's leaving a great sticking turd of a corpse in its day on purpose?

I think the simpler answer is the Kukuni just cannot understand what makes Liyu care that there's a corpse in the house. Heck, it outright stated as much.

This thing is a Reddit Atheist. It wants to make a 'perfect day', but it cannot understand the Sentiments and emotions that go into making a Perfect day or moment actually perfect. Like...

Why did a village full of people lie to a child about her Father? Because they cared about her happiness. This thing would never understand that except in the abstract.

This is probably a big part of why I think the Funeral is the core part, in terms of thematics, though I don't think Perfect Day plan exactly distracts from it. It's still having the funeral after all.

Not only is a Funeral a ceremony of closure, but a funeral is PURELY sentimental. There's nothing to be gained from it in terms of raw serotonin, nothing as simple as "Catch more fish" or "All tools nice". It's a sad moment, but also a happy one.
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It's not fucking itself over. Quite the opposite. As stated, the Kukuni requires something to go wrong in the day to enable a reset. If the day was completely perfect then it wouldn't be able to reset and feed off of the constantly repeating day. It also cannot cause something to go wrong itself, it can only further "perfect" the day. But it can also just choose to not improve something.

Liren dying is key to what it is doing. He is a constant and reliable way to reset the day that is also isolated from the rest of the day/village. Without him there are no breaks on the car that is the loop, because the Kukuni has already "perfected" everything else in the loop. Barring outsiders like us, he is the sole "flaw" in the perfect day.

Without him dying and Liyu finding his corpse, the loop, inherently, cannot function. The Kukuni minmaxed it too much and has left this critical weak point.
 
UlseDovThur said:
It's not fucking itself over. Quite the opposite. As stated, the Kukuni requires something to go wrong in the day to enable a reset. If the day was completely perfect then it wouldn't be able to reset and feed off of the constantly repeating day. It also cannot cause something to go wrong itself, it can only further "perfect" the day. But it can also just choose to not improve something.

Liren dying is key to what it is doing. He is a constant and reliable way to reset the day that is also isolated from the rest of the day/village. Without him there are no breaks on the car that is the loop, because the Kukuni has already "perfected" everything else in the loop. Barring outsiders like us, he is the sole "flaw" in the perfect day.

Without him dying and Liyu finding his corpse, the loop, inherently, cannot function. The Kukuni minmaxed it too much and has left this critical weak point.
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If I have reading comprehension issues, I would appreciate people reloading the page and seeing the part where I saw where I was wrong, and Accepted it.
 
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[X] A Happy Lie
- [X] Hide the body, probably in the Manor
- [X] Write a letter saying we managed to stabilize Liren w/ healing pill, but are bringing him to the city for full treatment ASAP. Post it on the door.
- [X] Hide ourselves.

It breaks the imperfect end of the day, discovering Dad is dead. Probably the second best ending to it, next to Liyu's discovering her dad is alive *and* right there. It's believable and positive vs her dad just randomly disappearing, and I don't think a funeral with just us will affect anything (though i guess the time flame could?)

There's also Ct's discord quote '[The kukuni] must keep the day imperfectly perfect. if the day is perfectly perfect it loses. but also if the day is...'. He might be implying "perfectly imperfect" is another win condition. Idk how we'd do that though, considering we can't get near Liyu to unperfect everything.
 
So, I've made my arguments for how to approach the issue at hand. Now, I'm going to gush about the integrated Shatter the Mirror. Because it is so awesome.

This was the move done by Tuan Hao, the artist from the Resolute March who dueled Zhuan Kun in Mockingjay.
Vesvius said:
Hao spends 31 Anam to roll 51d10t7f1ie10 (A Whisper Alive (A Sudden Gale)). 20 Successes!
Tuan Hao +5!
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As we can see, he spent 31 anam to roll 51 dice. An impressive number of dice for an impressive amount of anam. It was a considerable amount to expend, but it got the job done as a one-punch wonder. Or in this case, one explosion.

Let's look at Shatter the Mirror:
Vesvius said:
Shatter the Mirror (EMP 4)
Defender Technique 3 (Time 51)
Cost: 5 Anam
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For five anam... we can also roll 51 dice. With better odds of success due to our Knack for Combat trick. That's at least 6 times more efficient than what Tuan Hao was able to do. But that's not the end. Because it's not really 51 dice. We also have the option of adding dice from a random technique from the clone.

At the absolute peak of degeneracy, I predict another 50 dice being added if the random technique is as good as Shatter the Mirror or A Whisper Alive. A more likely scenario, given what techs we have, is somewhere between 20 and 25 more dice.

All for the low, low, low cost of five anam.

Shatter the Mirror will be a brutal finisher for us. A technique to pull who-could-have-been and have them use what-we-could-have-had to deal devastating damage to a foe who doesn't know what's happening.
 
Current Tally:

Adhoc vote count started by Vesvius on Apr 25, 2025 at 1:26 PM, finished with 134 posts and 27 votes.
  • [X] Plan A Perfect Ending
    -[X] Remove the body from the home. Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.
    -[X] Tidy up the house as best you can so when Liyu comes home everything looks good. Most importantly, make Liyu's bed so it looks as inviting as possible.
    -[X] If possible, wrangle the dog to be at the home when Liyu returns. Friendly dogs bring joy and comfort.
    [x] Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.
    [x] Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.
    -[X] Use SEG on the local area to try and spot any anomalies, then investigate as appropriate
    [X] Plan: These are the days to remember
    -[X] Dispose of Liren's body. Burn it, store it in the Estate, dump it into a well, anything to get it out of sight as thoroughly as possible.
    -[X] Clean the house. Open the windows, put away the blankets, trim the lanterns, anything to make the house look like it had been taken care of.
    -[X] Forge a note from Liren. Something about going back to work, out in the woods, will be back after dusk.
    -[X] When the scene is ready, light a fire in the fireplace with lots of smoke going through the chimney. That will signal the entire village that someone is up and about in Liren's home.
    -[X] Hide. Hide in the rafters and make sure you are as invisible as possible. Ensure there is no evidence that Kong Zhi was ever in the home.
    [X] Didn't You Know? There's Always An Ending
    [X] burn the house down in a funeral pyre with the ever distant flame after investigating it.
    [X] A Happy Lie
    - [X] Hide the body, probably in the Manor
    - [X] Write a letter saying we managed to stabilize Liren w/ healing pill, but are bringing him to the city for full treatment ASAP. Post it on the door.
    - [X] Hide ourselves.
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Also, made some slight edits. Added one key word, and also the +1 EMP you should've gotten for integrating StM. More edits might follow, but those were the big ones.
 
[X] A Leap of Grief and Faith
-[X] Prepare Liren's body for a funeral. Dress him in clean clothes, cover his pox-marked face in a clean white cloth, and swap out his disease ridden bedding. Air out the house, refill the lamps, and open the windows to let sunlight in. Find any sentimental keepsakes such as pictures or favorite knickknacks and place them by the body. See if there's incense; if so, light some and place it by the body. Do everything you can to make Liren seem at peace.
-[X] Hide and under no circumstances interfere with Liyu
-[X] Pray that seeing her father at peace will help Liyun accept that he's no longer stuck infinitely suffering and that she can move on
-[X] If the dog is amenable, have it on hand to help comfort Liyu

I fully admit that this plan is risky and it's entirely possible this will backfire on us. It entirely hinges on Liyu's ability to not only accept that her father cannot be saved, but also realize that letting him go and be at peace is the best outcome. It counts on a child to be mature and grow up. That being said, between Liyu's limited cognizance of the loop and the metaphysical weight of seeing her father die from sickness infinite times, I believe she's developed the maturity to accept Liren's death and take the next step forward. I think there's a chance that a small push from us will help her break the cycle.

I also don't think the current leading plans to simply remove Liren from the equation and hide the body will work.
Vesvius said:
"If she weren't the one to find me… if I went sooner… Fenhua was always good at poisons, and I…"
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It sounds like Fenhua tried something similar and was erased from the loop. Simply preventing Liyu from seeing the body isn't sufficient. Writing a note pretending to get better seems flimsy at best, since Liyu is aware of how sick Liren is and may retain the certainty of his death from the previous loops.
 
I don't think we should make it perfect, I also don't think that's possible.

[X] Place a burial shoud over Liren, organize a funeral, gather the villagers, bring Liyu, be kind yet somber about it, not disruptive as it were. let go. Move on.
 
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dugong said:
It sounds like Fenhua tried something similar and was erased from the loop. Simply preventing Liyu from seeing the body isn't sufficient. Writing a note pretending to get better seems flimsy at best, since Liyu is aware of how sick Liren is and may retain the certainty of his death from the previous loops.
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By contrast, I think trying something similar, but her getting erased, indicates it's something the kukuni is worried about. It may be that due to our protection, we can accomplish what Fenhua could not. The kukuni doesn't have any eyes in this house at the moment.

I think there's an understandable misunderstanding here, which is that the Perfect Day is no longer really about Liyu's sincere emotions of grief for her father. She was able to have a conversation with Liren on Day 2 in which he could have tried to help her process his death, and probably many others after. Liyu's now suffered tens if not hundreds of thousands of loops and likely been through a gamut of emotions. The loop is continuing because the kukuni is using it to cultivate. It would make intuitive narrative sense for resolving Liyu's issues to resolve the loop, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

Evonix said:
[X] Place a burial shoud over Liren, organize a funeral, gather the villagers, bring Liyu, Let go. Move on.
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Going to the village is likely to draw the attention of the kukuni and get the loop reset.
 
KreenWarrior said:
Going to the village is likely to draw the attention of the kukuni and get the loop reset.
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The Kukuni's attention is already drawn, Zhi has already dashed through the village. I think so long as he doesn't try to force things, disrupt them, it will work.
He shouldn't act like it's strange, instead like it's a normal funeral
 
Cteatus said:
It won't work. If you approach a villager or Liyu it will be a reset.
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It didn't immediately, it only reset once we caused the weaver to make a mistake. I think that putting down what they're doing when informed of the death of a neighbor is acting within the role of a villager
 
Evonix said:
It didn't immediately, it only reset once we caused the weaver to make a mistake. I think that putting down what they're doing when informed of the death of a neighbor is acting within the role of a villager
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Certainly an interesting choice to argue with me, but consider this word of the QM that your plan is going to result in a reset.
 
Thor's Twin said:
As we can see, he spent 31 anam to roll 51 dice. An impressive number of dice for an impressive amount of anam. It was a considerable amount to expend, but it got the job done as a one-punch wonder. Or in this case, one explosion.
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In fairness to Tuan Hao, it seemed to me that he might have had some form of trait to power-up his relevant technique's dice by directly spending more anam into it. Probably similar to how integrating Plume gave us a relevant Smoke trait - he just poured everything he had on it, but it doesn't always have that much oomph.

We've seen large numbers of dice getting rolled with a lot less anam spent. The real kicker here isn't the base dice that StM gives, it's that the other Kong Zhis can pull off another tech, and literally nobody can predict what it will be.

Evonix said:
It didn't immediately, it only reset once we caused the weaver to make a mistake. I think that putting down what they're doing when informed of the death of a neighbor is acting within the role of a villager
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That was a few loops ago, before we infuriated this kukuni so much that every single living being in the area except our companions, Liren and the dog are actively looking for us:

Vesvius said:
I raise my hand, stopping our group short. Clerk Ni tries to lodge his objections, but I tune them out as I turn my focus to Shoubiao's Wake. There is a tension, a lurking danger in the air choking the village like a physical thing- and it doesn't take long to find its source.

At the side of the house closest to the village's edge stands one of the many grandmothers who eternally beat dust from their rugs. This one is not gossiping with friends, however. She is not even looking at the rug. Her arms are moving automatically, as if they are but pendulums swinging the broom back and forth without care. Her head is up and her eyes searching as she glances down the road at us.

She is not alone. The fishermen all turn their heads in unison from where they sit at the edge of the cliff, looking in our direction. Old Shaung still lies upon his perch on top of his home, but his eyes follow us. The butcher stands in the middle of the path, ostensibly hawking his wares, but he doesn't say a word as he rings his bell with all the enthusiasm of a disobedient child asked to clean up after a meal.

They're all waiting. Watching. And with every step I take, their focus stays on me.

The villagers have either been given their orders, or they've been suborned directly and the creature now watches through their eyes. Either way, letting those eyes remain on me seems a poor idea.
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