Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%
  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
[x] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.

[x] Write-in: Inform Magnus that we are telling Mortarion and Horus, yes WE as in the both of us. Understanding that he is incredibly worried about doing so, we nevertheless must inform him, and do so now before this gets out of hand, which it certainly will, as there is no possible way the Plotter won't use this against all of us if we leave here like this. We'll inform them together and then work with Horus to temper Mortarion's initial reaction. Something must be done, but that something must be viable. When Mortarion inevitably asks as to why Magnus didn't share immediately, be truthful, Magnus was terrified of the results of such, and so Kesar who he trusts to express his fears and work through his thoughts before attempting to explain things to a more difficult audience in Mort and Horus.


Hiding it and him finding out later? Won't be pretty. Better to lay it out in the open right now.
 
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As much as I hate staying in character in terms of what it does on humongous decisions like these, I agree with Argenten. This is something where if we don't show our beliefs in someway, it's going to seem a bit suspicious.
 
As much as I hate staying in character in terms of what it does on humongous decisions like these, I agree with Argenten. This is something where if we don't show our beliefs in someway, it's going to seem a bit suspicious.
Yup, plus, we're not saying anything that isn't *a lie* we are at most using what we know and what we think IC to prevent Morty from jumping the gun and assuming the absolute worst/lashing out and ruining everything he and Magnus were starting to build.

it fits, it's in character, it lets us continue investigating, and it addressing the concerns of everyone without dismissing them.
 
This absolutely reeks of a Chaos plot, if your base assumption is that the Emperor wouldn't do this frankly stupid move with the idea that it wouldn't be uncovered, because the job with Angron was so sloppy and he would only have ended up killed after at least one or two Primarchs (Lorgar in the second case this time) were either DISAPPEARED or EXECUTED, with it sounding like the canon case being MIND ERASURE'D for at least one or both of those for multiple Primarchs in actual canon.

So while Kesar's inherent biases lean toward "Chaos did it", we also have to consider that the Emperor has made some questionable calls in the last thirty years since we joined the Crusade, or the four of us wouldn't be here, questioning his every fucking motive and the means he used to accomplish it. No one is above reproach, everyone here has reason to doubt, and we have more reason to investigate.

This isn't necessarily our watershed moment for a Heresy, but I'm pretty sure those present wouldn't be opposed to turning the Trial of Angron into the Trial of the Emperor. It would be hilariously stunning turn of events if nearly a couple dozen Primarchs surprised him with evidence and Legions in Orbit to force a inquest.
 
[] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.
 
This absolutely reeks of a Chaos plot, if your base assumption is that the Emperor wouldn't do this frankly stupid move with the idea that it wouldn't be uncovered, because the job with Angron was so sloppy and he would only have ended up killed after at least one or two Primarchs (Lorgar in the second case this time) were either DISAPPEARED or EXECUTED, with it sounding like the canon case being MIND ERASURE'D for at least one or both of those for multiple Primarchs in actual canon.

So while Kesar's inherent biases lean toward "Chaos did it", we also have to consider that the Emperor has made some questionable calls in the last thirty years since we joined the Crusade, or the four of us wouldn't be here, questioning his every fucking motive and the means he used to accomplish it. No one is above reproach, everyone here has reason to doubt, and we have more reason to investigate.

This isn't necessarily our watershed moment for a Heresy, but I'm pretty sure those present wouldn't be opposed to turning the Trial of Angron into the Trial of the Emperor. It would be hilariously stunning turn of events if nearly a couple dozen Primarchs surprised him with evidence and Legions in Orbit to force a inquest.
Those are all valid points and why my write in does have the most likely options to Kesar being "either chaos did it...or there is something so wrong with the Emperor that this seemed like a good idea and either way we're going to need beyond ironclad evidence to prove it."

There is a possibility that after the Trial of Angron as well as Angron's Last Fight with the Emperor...we might be able to reveal enough to force an Imperial family intervention to get Big E to take back his emotions and soul pieces he cut away...which would be good and bad in it's own way.

I will freely admit the main thing for me isn't remotely that chaos did it...but it's an IC thing that *could* happen and gives us the wiggle room to salvage things between Magnus a nd Mortarion as well as keeping the primarchs as a whole focused on getting more evidence on the Truth Of Nurceria.
 
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The whole thing with Magnus is a split end kinda tangle. We caught it and Magnus has the opportunity to say "I lost my composure, but I do fully believe you deserve to know" which of course Mortarion does, but Magnus has a more developed relationship with Kesar than either Horus or Mortarion has with either of the other two, stepping aside a moment to consult him is just what is done.

Worst case, it shows that both are at least determined to uncover the truth. It'll be up to Magnus not "freaking out" again to convince Mortarion he wasn't being simply lied to.

The important part here is the truth currently buried still needs to be uncovered, and Magnus kinda has a skill set needed to do it. He would kind of have to extend a little trust if he wants to know more anyway.
 
Pretty much, we're one of the few people that can bridge the gap...but it's up to Magnus and Mortarion if they trust us and each other enough to meet on that bridge and move forward together.

We can provide the opportunity as my write-in does...but we cannot and arguably should not force them.
 
I think that it is better to show that the emperor is not perfect, that way when he makes any more mistakes no one will really think that he planned it and they will remember that even though he is the emperor he is still kind of human, and so are they.
 
That's also the thing here, Big E got here waaaay too late and tried to make the best of it...and because of canon, he failed horribly thanks to the Nails. He had a moment of very human desperation
 
Speaking of the Eldar, it was because of a Farseer and his dogbodies that Angron was captured and enslaved. The Farseer saw the future Angron messing up their Craftworld and tried to stop it by killing him. They failed, of course, but the attempt exhausted baby Angron and left him at a slaver's mercy.

The Clown probably knew and was keeping silence about it.

So, Angron's messed-up unlife began from the Eldar, tossed to Nucerian Highriders and end up with Desperate Father Emperor trying to save him while Khorn bleeding in his brain through the Nail.
 
Speaking of the Eldar, it was because of a Farseer and his dogbodies that Angron was captured and enslaved. The Farseer saw the future Angron messing up their Craftworld and tried to stop it by killing him. They failed, of course, but the attempt exhausted baby Angron and left him at a slaver's mercy.
Did agron actually destroy a craftworld cannon or quest I remember that fulgrim and I think sanguineous destroyed one each in canon but other than the baby storie I don't remember Afton ever interact with them
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.
 
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[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.

There's a moratorium.
 
It's sort of funny to realize that due to the nature of TLP, the Eldar would've lost that craftworld anyway and not because of Angron anymore. Another instance of "it didn't have to be this way" but then again, TLP has also proven that dice-rolls can ultimately change the entire outcome of species now.

The Eldar have been kicked down quite a bit, but at the same time, they are now on the resurgence. The Imperium has stopped the Heresy entirely and the Primarchs have begun to find their own paths towards becoming stronger, but the threat of civil war looms and ideological struggles are everywhere. Chaos has lost multiple times now, but gods like Khorne are learning for the first time in eons. Meanwhile, the Orks are power-leveling in the BTW and the Druhkari have started to evolve as a civilization in ways that have never been examined in a 40k setting.

Angron died for no reason, yet perhaps he also died for a different one now. The questions remain, though; for what purpose and to whose benefit?
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] @argenten
 
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The Eldar have been kicked down quite a bit, but at the same time, they are now on the resurgence.

To be honest they are probably a lot more powerful then they where in cannon in another way as they will get Isha back and she on her own can probably repopulate the eldar race. They are also right now semi allied with the Imperium this can give them breathing space.
 
To be honest they are probably a lot more powerful then they where in cannon in another way as they will get Isha back and she on her own can probably repopulate the eldar race. They are also right now semi allied with the Imperium this can give them breathing space.
There has been a lot of jokes and planning in the Discord involving what the Eldar can do. Just like with the Imperium, the Eldar have gone in directions that make TLP a fucking great version of 30k to explore and examine.

For all the dumb things that happen in this game, almost everyone (even the blasted Orks) have good ideas.

Except Lorgar. He was a dumbass.
 
we now have the basis of an alliance to loot necron tombworlds before they awaken. and then create The Ship before the Nids eventually arrive.
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.
 
[x] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.

[x] Write-in: Inform Magnus that we are telling Mortarion and Horus, yes WE as in the both of us. Understanding that he is incredibly worried about doing so, we nevertheless must inform him, and do so now before this gets out of hand, which it certainly will, as there is no possible way the Plotter won't use this against all of us if we leave here like this. We'll inform them together and then work with Horus to temper Mortarion's initial reaction. Something must be done, but that something must be viable. When Mortarion inevitably asks as to why Magnus didn't share immediately, be truthful, Magnus was terrified of the results of such, and so Kesar who he trusts to express his fears and work through his thoughts before attempting to explain things to a more difficult audience in Mort and Horus.
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Argenten
 
[X] "I couldn't ask you to do that." Despite it all, it was better to learn of the Emperor's horrific secrets than live in ignorance.
[X] Write-in: when speaking to Magnus, "Look, I understand why you are terrified of revealing this to Mortarion, I am tempted to let you wipe my memory for it...but remember how you felt when you confirmed about the Archdaemons from me and how much it hurt that I kept it from you? Imagine how it will gut Mortarion when he finds out you kept this from him just after you and he were starting mend bridges, as I can only imagine that happened when he mentioned going to you for aid.

Keeping secrets like this, from each other, will only tear each other apart. After my service in the Maelstrom, the emperor gave me Boons...one of the ones I asked him for was the right to tell all my brothers, including you, the truth about what is in the Warp and the Archdaemons therein. In that spirit of trust, fraterinity, and understanding, I ask you to work with me on this and follow my lead. Especially as there is an Archdaemon that delights in precisely this level of infighting and deceit.

So please come with me and tell Mortarion, if he hears it from me and only me, it will not only lessen the credibility of what we are trying to say but will make it that much harder not to lose another brother. We have to do this now, while the wounds are still fresh, otherwise they will scar and it will only make things worse. Between myself and Horus, and you coming through, we will be able to temper Mortarion's wrath and get to the bottom of this, but it won't work if you don't come with me. In a very real sense, you are now in a position to determine the fate of the Imperium in no small sense. I understand your fear...but if we hesitate now, the ones that hurt your legion will win and revel in the pain and suffering that result. So come with me brother, trust in me, trust in mortarion and horus...but most of all trust in yourself, that you will be able to along with the rest of us, see this through."

Before we got to Mortarion, Kesar gives him a big, heartfelt hug and says only four words: "I believe in you." and turns around, trusting Magnus to walk with him to speak to Mortarion.

To Mortarion, "I have finished conversing with Magnus and while I wanted to wait for more of our brothers to join us, Lion's presence pushes me to reveal it sooner...In light of my service in the Maelstrom, the Emperor granted me full authority and right to reveal the secrets that he has been keeping about the Warp and the beings within it. I say this because what Magnus found when he was divining is not only in line with one of the most powerful beings would show in order to create strife and discord between us...but it is a being that revels in magic, and so would be able to create illusions or false divinings. However, as without this knowledge, Magnus only saw visions of something so horrific, so wrong that he wanted to gather more evidence and prove it before bringing it to us, however we arrived too early and thus caught him before further investigation. Magnus was in short caught between sharing nothing and being thought a fool, or revealing what he could only suspect and thus cause a near civil war.

Brothers, there is something so wrong and flawed on this planet that we all felt it, psyker or no. We need to take anything we cannot prove or have verified beyond means of divination with a grain of salt. I do not know if the beings of chaos are behind this...but the battlecry of Angron's legion, "Blood for the Primarch, skulls for the twelve legion...that is near word for word the battlecry of one of the forces of the four most strongest beings in the Warp, the same ones that Horus came face to face in a recent journey in the warp. Mortarion, I ask that you forgive Magnus for wanting to show the prudence we all have been demanding of him and seeking to establish solid evidence of what he Saw. After hearing him, I can understand why he was terrified of sharing.

In summation, there is much we do not know for sure and we have to verify it more in depth as there are two terrible scenarios I see here: either Chaos created this situation in order to tear the Imperium apart, or the Emperor actually did this of his own free will and is thus clearly compromised, as best as we can tell one of these is true, and we must find out which. There are other scenarios of a more mixed nature but those require even more evidence and only prove my point.

As we do, I will share what I have learned about the Archdaemons and their forces so that you too can understand why I am concerned they may have been an influence here. And yes Horus, before you say anything, i am fully aware that I might be wrong and that the presence of 'Chaos' as it is referred to might not be here...but that is why I plead with you all that we must focus on finding the solid evidence of what has happened here. Even if they were not, there is something in this world that will draw them if they haven't shown already."
 
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