The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

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hey people, I was about to start reading this quest when I realized that the two latest chapters aren't marked as volume 2 but as epilogue, is this quest ending? because if it's not I'll start reading it now but otherwise I'll wait until it's finished.

As said, this thread is basically book 1, and Durin is starting a new thread for Book 2. It will have revised rules due to the inefficiencies that cropped up here. Especially for turn actions.

thank you both for answering so quickly, could you give me some advice on what is the best way to read the story? because there is a metric ton of omakes marked as cannon and I'm not used to paying much attention to them.

As others have suggested, aside from reading from the start to turn 1, us the Reader Mode until you are at the end. Though, I do suggest not skipping omakes, if only because they occasionally may get referenced in story. Or in the case of Wildlife/Plant/Mineral omakes, provide things to research. Whether the result is a boost (Citybane Termite research reduced maintenance by 5%, iirc), options (Phase Tigers got us our first special Rough Rider mount and boosted our memetic Catachan Regiment), or both (Life Eater Fungus reduced maintenance costs in the Everglades, greatly reduced the risk of an outbreak, and gave us the ability to use them in our Deathstrike Missiles). Due to the length of the quest, we have often forgotten about neat little things from omakes so wound up not researching them.

Also, if you have an account, Embers has a Discord server. Link in the Information Sheets dropdown in the 1st post. You have a 5% increased chance of receiving a response to any questions there, and plenty of discussions that wind up not happening here because of clutter. But yeah, read the FAQ and the Compilation of Statements, especially for questions relating to "Marriage" and "Grey Knights". And when it becomes relevant, if you have questions about "Fundamentals" only ask players; Durin got frustrated with questions about them.

Otherwise, enjoy the ride, boggle at the bullshit that comes up, and remember the rallying cry of FUCK CHAOS!
 
Can anyone quickly answer these questions for me? I just want to doublecheck some things. Depending on what the answers to these questions are, I may or may not have a pretty decent idea for something we could do in the future.

1. An honourbound favour can be broken down into three major favours, and a major favour can be broken down into three minor favours, right?
2. And a major favour is also worth a lot more in terms of potency than just three minor favours combined?
3. Assuming the answer to 2 is "yes", do we know what general figures are for it? e.g., a Major favour is worth 100% more than three minor favours?
 
1. An honourbound favour can be broken down into three major favours, and a major favour can be broken down into three minor favours, right?
2. And a major favour is also worth a lot more in terms of potency than just three minor favours combined?
3. Assuming the answer to 2 is "yes", do we know what general figures are for it? e.g., a Major favour is worth 100% more than three minor favours?
1. Yes
2. Significantly.
3. Enough that there's no point trying to game with it.
 
1. Yes
2. Significantly.
3. Enough that there's no point trying to game with it.
What I was wondering was if we could use major favours to essentially "bulk buy" certain things. We know that this is possible, or at least it certainly seems that way, because we can purchase military aid with a minor favour and a major favour. If the same principle of scaling applies to other actions, then coupled with the fact that major favours have a much greater potency than just three minor favours, we could do lots of things far more efficienctly than we might think.

As an example, getting Eldar spies in local polities currently costs one minor favour each. However, if we spent one major favour, we might be able to get Eldar spies in considerably more than just three polities. Alternatively, getting the Eldar to terraform a planet in the Trust costs two minor favours each. However, as major favours equal considerably more than just three minor favours, it might actually make it practical to terraform uninhabited worlds within the Trust's borders on a large scale.

There are lots of other avenues where this sort of thing could be useful, of course. Anyway, is there anything you think I'm missing or overlooking?
 
its not just a question of potency either. there are things that a faction WILL NOT DO for ANY quanity of minor favors but will for just one major favor...and likewise for major favors which won't let you convince a faction to give up a paragon person.
 
What I was wondering was if we could use major favours to essentially "bulk buy" certain things. We know that this is possible, or at least it certainly seems that way, because we can purchase military aid with a minor favour and a major favour. If the same principle of scaling applies to other actions, then coupled with the fact that major favours have a much greater potency than just three minor favours, we could do lots of things far more efficienctly than we might think.

As an example, getting Eldar spies in local polities currently costs one minor favour each. However, if we spent one major favour, we might be able to get Eldar spies in considerably more than just three polities. Alternatively, getting the Eldar to terraform a planet in the Trust costs two minor favours each. However, as major favours equal considerably more than just three minor favours, it might actually make it practical to terraform uninhabited worlds within the Trust's borders on a large scale.

There are lots of other avenues where this sort of thing could be useful, of course. Anyway, is there anything you think I'm missing or overlooking?
its generally not worth spending large favors for things other then what favors of that class can do since we can't combine favors efficently (we can break favors but generally can't combine)

use minor favors for minor things, major favors for major things. honorbound favors for honorbound things, because we can't use favors to get larger things (since we can't combine generally). and we lose value when we break favors so as to use a favor for smaller tasks (not always bad, just sub-optimal in 90%+ of the time)
 
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There are lots of other avenues where this sort of thing could be useful, of course. Anyway, is there anything you think I'm missing or overlooking?
Simple, we've got very few major favours and they're really really hard to get especially as the eldar are rapidly going extinct.

Do not mention what I fear you may try to mention, I do not want to jinx us! No thinking, no fantasising no nothing I am a superstitious man so please for my mental well being and sleep cycle do not let your mind wander in the direction I fear it will.
 
Simple, we've got very few major favours and they're really really hard to get especially as the eldar are rapidly going extinct.

Do not mention what I fear you may try to mention, I do not want to jinx us! No thinking, no fantasising no nothing I am a superstitious man so please for my mental well being and sleep cycle do not let your mind wander in the direction I fear it will.
now I'm hoping his mind goes "there" just so I know what your so concerned about :p
 
Simple, we've got very few major favours and they're really really hard to get especially as the eldar are rapidly going extinct.

Do not mention what I fear you may try to mention, I do not want to jinx us! No thinking, no fantasising no nothing I am a superstitious man so please for my mental well being and sleep cycle do not let your mind wander in the direction I fear it will.
That is true, but if we manage to earn more major favours then we would be doing a lot to help the Eldar, and as such would also be helping to avert their extinction anyway. And I know that it may be that there are better things to spend major favours on, although that would depend on exactly how efficient major favours are as opposed to spending minor favours.

Do you think it would be reasonable to ask Durin about the examples I gave, and any others I can think, to work out just how efficient scaling up favours like that would be?

its generally not worth spending large favors for things other then what favors of that class can do since we can't combine favors efficently (we can break favors but generally can't combine)

use minor favors for minor things, major favors for major things. honorbound favors for honorbound things, because we can't use favors to get larger things (since we can't combine generally). and we lose value when we break favors so as to use a favor for smaller tasks (not always bad, just sub-optimal in 90%+ of the time)
Well, I know that we can't break favours efficiently, but that isn't really what I was suggesting. If we get an Eldar warhost to help us, we don't need to break down the major favour into three minor favours to do it, just because we know it's possible to get a minour favour's worth of military assistance from the Eldar. I was thinking that with the same logic we could preserve the efficiency of major favours, but using them for other actions, like the examples I gave.

now I'm hoping his mind goes "there" just so I know what your so concerned about :p
Isha's rescue. If it does succeed, the Eldar could get a big boost to their birth rate and population growth, and so wouldn't be gradually going extinct. It wouldn't stop Major favours from being enormously valuable things we shouldn't waste though.
 
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That is true, but if we manage to earn more major favours then we would be doing a lot to help the Eldar, and as such would also be helping to avert their extinction anyway. And I know that it may be that there are better things to spend major favours on, although that would depend on exactly how efficient major favours are as opposed to spending minor favours.

Do you think it would be reasonable to ask Durin about the examples I gave, and any others I can think, to work out just how efficient scaling up favours like that would be?


Well, I know that we can't break favours efficiently, but that isn't really what I was suggesting. If we get an Eldar warhost to help us, we don't need to break down the major favour into three minor favours to do it, just because we know it's possible to get a minour favour's worth of military assistance from the Eldar. I was thinking that with the same logic we could preserve the efficiency of major favours, but using them for other actions, like the examples I gave.


Isha's rescue. If it does succeed, the Eldar could get a big boost to their birth rate and population growth, and so wouldn't be gradually going extinct. It wouldn't stop Major favours from being enormously valuable things we shouldn't waste though.
YOU FOOL!!!

And depends are your examples going to end up like the fundamentals, asking for excessive detail when common sense could let you easily deduce etc.
 
NOOOOOO, I'm sorry for making things go there!

I diden't realize I was leading him to jinx us! I thought it was just a pet-pieve of some kind.
 
Well, I did acknowledge the rescue, but I didn't say it would succeed, so we aren't jinxed just yet!

On a morbid note, I wonder if having so many paragon/transcendent characters to sacrifice, including two on the path of ascension, would boost Nurgle's ritual?
And depends are your examples going to end up like the fundamentals, asking for excessive detail when common sense could let you easily deduce etc.
That is something I obviously want to avoid repeating. Certainly, I think asking about the examples I mentioned and others like them would be pretty reasonable, since AFAIK there's no exact information about how many minor favours a major favour is equal to in terms of value. Once I did know that basic ratio though, it should be pretty simple to work out how it would apply to other potential uses.

E.g. If a major favour could get eldar spies infilitrating ten polities, then a major favour would be equal to ten minor favours. If another action ordinarily cost two minor favours per instance, I'd know that a major favour would let us do it five times.

Things like multiples could complicate that arithmetic a bit, such as if a major favour was equal to five minor favours and I wanted to know how many times it would let me repeat an action which cost two minor favours, but I'd assume that we'd round down in those instances.
 
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What's with this 'doomed one'? Is it Sanguinious? Is Malice planning on eating Sanguinious for more power?

Essentially the God of Last stands. Really powerful minor god who dies every few years and shows back up. Right now, his strength puts him at the bottom of exalted demon tire, and he's really focused on big boosts that kill you at the end of the fight.
 
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Well, I did acknowledge the rescue, but I didn't say it would succeed, so we should be safe. :p

That is something I obviously want to avoid repeating. Certainly, I think asking about the examples I mentioned and others like them would be pretty reasonable, since AFAIK there's no exact information about how many minor favours a major favour is equal to in terms of value. Once I did know that basic ratio though, it should be pretty simple to work out how it would apply to other potential uses.

E.g. If a major favour could get eldar spies infilitrating ten polities, then a major favour would be equal to ten minor favours. If another action ordinarily cost two minor favours per instance, I'd know that a major favour would let us do it five times.

Things like multiples could complicate that arithmetic a bit, such as if a major favour was equal to five minor favours and I wanted to know how often I could do an action which cost two minor favours, but I'd assume that we'd round down in those instances.
I'm pretty sure the thing is that that ratio your concerned about changes

so there is no universal ratio here that you can extend from one situation to another, none that works anyway since it would be changing from year to year, task to task and policy to policy. right now it might be 5 to 1, or maybe 7 to 1 or maybe the eldar don't care and would do 3 to 1 (IE: zero loss), likewise the ratio for spy infiltration might be 5 to 1 while military assistance might be 7 to 1 because they need their major assets 7 times as much as they need their minor favor (due to special circumstances)

you would get nothing out such knowledge except for that specific case/example that you ask about.
 
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On a morbid note, I wonder if having so many paragon/transcendent characters to sacrifice, including two on the path of ascension, would boost Nurgle's ritual?
Well they're not at the ritual, but there are plenty transcendents and powerful gods at the actual ritual.

Essentially the God of Last stands. Really powerful minor god who dies every few years and shows back up. Right now, his strength puts him at the bottom of exalted demon tire, and he's really focused on big boosts that kill you at the end of the fight.
To expand its more like a series of minor gods, since it gets true killed constantly, but there are so many doomed last stands that the god almost immediately reforms and has no trouble grabbing avatars (albeit short lived ones.)
 
I'm pretty sure the thing is that that ratio your concerned about changes

so there is no universal ratio here that you can extend from one situation to another, none that works anyway since it would be changing from year to year, task to task and policy to policy. right now it might be 5 to 1, or maybe 7 to 1 or maybe the eldar don't care and would do 3 to 1 (IE: zero loss), likewise the ratio for spy infiltration might be 5 to 1 while military assistance might be 7 to 1 because they need their major assets 7 times as much as they need their minor favor (due to special circumstances)

you would get nothing out such knowledge except for that specific case/example that you ask about.
Well, I think it certainly makes sense if the value of favours as a whole fluctuates depending on what resources the Eldar have available, but I don't think it would make much sense if minor favours kept the same value while major favours became more valuable, which seems to the sort of scenario you're suggesting. I think that while what a minor favour can buy may fluctuate, the ratio for the relative value of minor/major/honourbound favours would still be the same.

e.g. If the Eldar are super lucky in the next couple of centuries, maybe the cost of terraforming a planet would fall to one minor favour. However, the relative value of a minor favour to a major one would stay the same, so if a major favour was worth ten minor favours, then I'd know that one major favour could terraform ten planets if used for a large scale action like that.

Of course, I'd double check with Durin regardless, just to make sure I'm not wrong about any of that. Just because I think it makes more sense that way doesn't change the fact I could be sorely mistaken after all. If it does turn out that you're right then I might have no other option but to ask Durin more questions, since I wouldn't really have any means of reasonably working out the answers myself, which would be a bit of a pain.
 
Well, I have plenty of time now to work on writing. So maybe I'll try another Isha omake. Granted I'm not sure what to write, there is only so much she can really do at this point.
 
Well, I have plenty of time now to work on writing. So maybe I'll try another Isha omake. Granted I'm not sure what to write, there is only so much she can really do at this point.
As I said on the last page, she can do stuff to the door from her side.

As others have pointed out her power is utterly hostile to Nurgle, in fact she's his exact opposite and she's got the most knowledge of anti nurgle in the cosmos.

Her throwing her strength against the door to expand upon weaknesses, to reopen the hole she made (assuming its been closed) or even to just get a bit of it out from under the door to support the rescue team alone would make a vast difference.
 
As I said on the last page, she can do stuff to the door from her side.

As others have pointed out her power is utterly hostile to Nurgle, in fact she's his exact opposite and she's got the most knowledge of anti nurgle in the cosmos.

Her throwing her strength against the door to expand upon weaknesses, to reopen the hole she made (assuming its been closed) or even to just get a bit of it out from under the door to support the rescue team alone would make a vast difference.
Hmm, I get that, but there has to be some creative solution in play here. Something that Durin can use to spice things up a little. Like what can Isha do if she focused her attention on one thing involving that stupid door that would aid in the rescue attempt?
 
Hmm, I get that, but there has to be some creative solution in play here. Something that Durin can use to spice things up a little. Like what can Isha do if she focused her attention on one thing involving that stupid door that would aid in the rescue attempt?
mmm

1. Activate the Star of Isha: Its her artefact from the War in Heaven, sends out a massive healing aura etc. Areatha's going to have it pressed right against the door so its as close as it can get to her, and would burn daemons, heal friends, and harm the door.
2. Misdirection: Call out to Nurgle assuring him that she's OK and to keep punching Tzeench in the nose its Tzeench's daemons infiltrating the mansion, but his kiddies are taking care of it, just keep beating the snot out of Tzeench.
3. Whispering: Through her bond with Ridcully and the physical closeness to Areatha and Rids guide them on the best path to taking the door down.

Three off the top of my head.
 
Hmm, I get that, but there has to be some creative solution in play here. Something that Durin can use to spice things up a little. Like what can Isha do if she focused her attention on one thing involving that stupid door that would aid in the rescue attempt?

Well, this might be a stupid idea, but maybe Isha can sidestep the door. Instead of breaking out via that, maybe use the floor to do so. She is a Goddess of Life that's been treading in that room for thousands of years. She might have a small bit of influence over it as a result. Maybe use that to open another hole through the floor to the other side of the door that she can use to communicate as I doubt she can get out that way. And communication would certainly help Arathrea break down the door as now she has a way to reliably affect the other side through Isha.
 
No Matter the Cost
No Matter the Cost

The signal that they had been spotted was unneeded, in the end, the cry of the plagued one pierced even the dimensional space that she and the Ancient One were hidden within, causing both of them to burst through the thin walls.

It was a sight of utter despair and misery, within the mansion and her first thought was to the smell, as flies beyond counting began to deluge towards her only to meet the now active aura of Ridcully, the grace of Isha granting them a reprieve as the Ancient One tore himself free and the Exalted Unclean One scrambled away, screaming once again, but this time in delirious fear.

She paid this no mind, instead focusing her full attention upon the door arguably her entire life had been building towards while her portable waystone began to burn on her chest as it absorbed and destroyed more chaotic energy than it could possibly drain, as her tools emerged from her person and she began her work, Ridcully whispering in her ear as they searched for any weaknesses, his sightless eyes burning with strength as he peered through the defences of the Gods, and his archetype leaned heavily upon him, filling his mind with the secrets of the divine.

She meanwhile considered the door, all worries banished from her mind, raising the Skeleton Key of Helheim and with delicate fingers reached up to place it in the lock, as the Star of Isha burned with cleansing flame against the wood as she went through the questions she had prepared on many sleepless nights.

First: What was a Door?

Commonly defined, a door was a hinged barrier at the entrance in this case a room.

Second: What was the Door to Nurgle?

A vault, a safe, a sanctuary. The great shield of his one true, perfect rose.

But to Nurgle it was also the gateway to a prison, a hell meant to crush the spirit and life from its inhabitant, to trap them in the darkness where there was no light until they thought of nothing, but for him. The deranged logic of an insane petulant child that made sense only to them.

Third, knowing this what did that mean for opening it?

Simple, that it could be opened.

That in effect was Nurgle's great mistake. For all that the Greater God of Chaos desired to protect and hold onto his beloved, he also wished to see her and so he had created a barrier that was supposed to be unlocked.

Of course, the intention was that it was to swing open for Nurgle and only Nurgle, but that inherent conception allowed for someone, anyone to open it if they were smart enough, if they were skilled and lucky enough. The covetous desire of the God would open the way so long as she could twist the key in just the right way, and tare apart the proper aspects.

Within a lock long since stiffened beyond the point of uselessness, a key began to turn. Around the door, tools marked with the rune of hope tore away at rusted nails, jammed haphazardly into rotting wood, as oil was poured onto joints long since rendered immobile and files scraped away at mountainous acclimations of rust.

As the paragon fortress fell over her head, she remained utterly focused on her task, pushing yet more energy into the door frame, as she hacked away at the hinges and forced it to yield, to open, following the threads that Ridcully suggested as True Runes burned out and away against the door, and yet it remained implacably shut.

The door was damaged, it was splintered and falling apart, the rotten wood buckling and bending the lock forced halfway open, the lubricants and maintenence to vital areas slowly moving it towards opening, but in the now it wasn't enough and was taking too much time.

They had no seconds to spare, the clashing of the entire force of the mansion was closing in, punctuated by the explosions of the infinitely varied munitions they had procured for this mission and the clock was ticking. They had no time to waste on this stupid door!

And so with resolution, she grabbed the tides of fate and forced them to submit to her will. The ring on her finger, the last token of the ancient Siren Queen burst into flames, as the True Rune of Luck incinerated at her wish, the entirety of its fate twisting powers used up in a single burst, her mouth moving and spitting forth the words of the language of creation Enuncia the language of the Old Ones themselves, commanding the door to open even as it wracked and destroyed her body to enact such an effect, even directed as it was through their gleaming engine.

The door was trembling, the great wards of Nurgle crumbling away as she deactivated all the safety restrictions of her armour, scorching her body with the full power of the nascent Great One, as she drew forth the Black Crystal Sword, the ultimate Daemon slayer gleaming in the turgid light of Nurgle's realm.

In that moment she knew, she knew that she, sacrifice anything to accomplish this goal. No matter the cost to herself, she would do it, this door would open and at last, at last the hope so cruelly locked behind it would be free.

With a scream of exertion, she swung, her body crumbling to ash as she did so, the Black Crystal sword cutting into the essence of the Door itself as at last with a final, groaning terrifying instant it clicked.

With an echo that reverberated across the warp from end to end, that resonated within all the rituals save for Tzeench's own, the lock was adjusted, the door was reduced from the greatest ward in existence to a mere piece of decayed wood, as the Exalted Unclean Ones stared onwards in disbelieving horror.

Lying on the floor, Areatha felt none of this, only the burning of her body her eyes began to dim and a bright light as kind, loving fingers took her up and breathed life into her once again.
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How much of yourself are you willing to sacrifice to secure victory?

@Durin
 
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