@Durin I know you just posted the answers on discord, but I think that the whole thread should see it.
1 How long will take for the Nynye to create a potion/antidote?
2 How long would take Azshara to create the focus for the True Rune of Purification?
3 how long will it take to the Eldar to design a Ritual for curing Guiliman?
4 And how long will it take for Vulkan to create an artifact to help curing Papa Smurf?
Ok so I checked discord and we have some new information we can do siren trade and get the focus on 5 years for the average. So we can put that off and ask the Eldar for help designing a ritual to cure Guilliman.
@Durin would it cost a favor to have the Eldar help design a ritual to cure Guilliman?
We will not be able to make use of the gravity sensors for 2 turns. After this turn we will have a break of 10-15 years. Also the ordinatus action is just the design not the building actions involved.
We won't be able to make use of the gravity sensors immediately, but we need to start them soon if we want to be able to have ships equipped with them after the break years. They will have a deployment action as well.
We won't be able to make use of the gravity sensors immediately, but we need to start them soon if we want to be able to have ships equipped with them after the break years. They will have a deployment action as well.
Well we have 20-25 years before they get close to the trust. Ordinatus is a huge bonus to planetary defense. They are created for a specific campaign or enemy and are hugely effective against enemies they are designed for.
Ok so I checked discord and we have some new information we can do siren trade and get the focus on 5 years for the average. So we can put that off and ask the Eldar for help designing a ritual to cure Guilliman.
Or we can use Y1 and Y2 to help with the Lizardmen diplomacy, I am pretty sure we will get everything ready for T134 Y3, that is when we will start Healing Papa Smurf...
Since it is a 3 year action that would be the last year we won't have any risk of dying before finishing it.
We won't be able to make use of the gravity sensors immediately, but we need to start them soon if we want to be able to have ships equipped with them after the break years. They will have a deployment action as well.
I'm delaying the sensors till we can both triple down and get the cathedral bonus. As it stands our chances are ~30% otherwise, and I don't want to repeat a 7 year action.
Well we have 20-25 years before they get close to the trust. Ordinatus is a huge bonus to planetary defense. They are created for a specific campaign or enemy and are hugely effective against enemies they are designed for.
Our fleets will be reengaging before they hit our planets though. We almost have to just to ensure the Tyranids passing through Ironbusta's domain doesn't go super-Tyranid/Ork madness. If we just let the Tyranid vs Ork conflict proceed without us, it's pretty likely something bad happens.
So the fleet will be needed before the planetary defense.
Ok Changed Diplomancy
Y1:Request ( Ask the Eldar for help in the Lizardmen peace talks)
Y2: Request ( The eldar help in creating a ritual to cure Guilliman)
Y3: Request ( Ask Vulkan to create a artifact to help Saint Lin with curing Guilliman)
Y4: Siren Trade ( Trade acquired xenotech for Purification rune focus)
Y5: Request ( Ask Ultramarines for Geenseed to create a healing potion and If they have any samples of the poison )
I would strongly prefer doing the Gravitic sensors over the Ordinatus for Explorator actions. Grav sensor improvements matter for all remaining fights against the Nids, while Ordinatus is only likely to be deployed on the ground.
the utilitarian architecture so often favoured by his species not really lending itself to create something beautiful like the city of Stars. It was changing, at least compared to the pictures of Imperial cities, filled with at best brutalist architecture
This is something I must object to. Firstly, Tormod's species, humanity, is not a species that is culturally or biologically inclined towards utilitarian architecture. Look at the vast majority of human cities built during our history and you'll find that there's a substantial amount of effort that goes into aesthetics. It's not all or even mostly built with pure functionality in mind. In 40k, humanity's penchant towards making buildings look aesthetically pleasing when they can has not changed.
Secondly, while Imperial cities do occasionally incorporate brutalist architecture, such as for their Arbites buildings, by and large the predominant form of architectural style utilised in the Imperium of Man is gothic architecture. While brutalist designs are stark, imposing, and blocky, gothic designs are majestic, intricate, and beautiful.
Here is an example of a real life building done in the brutalist style:
And here is an example of a real life building done in the gothic style:
As you can see, the difference is significant. Now, let's look at the building styles that the Imperium uses. Firstly, an example of brutalist design philosophy (though with non-brutalist influences):
And an Imperial building done in the gothic style:
You'll find the architecture of that second picture popping up a lot more than the architecture of the first picture.
Now, you could bring forth the argument that because Avernus is a Fortress World that it would devote next to no resources to aesthetics, but if you did bring forth that argument you'd be wrong. You can find countless examples of Imperial military assets that have a notable amount of resources invested into making them aesthetically pleasing, and to a rather successful degree.
You have Imperial warships which are known to sometimes be referred to as "giant space cathedrals", with gothic buttresses, eagle heads, and even winged skeleton saints on top of the bridge.
You have Macro-Cannon Aquila Strongpoints with heavily decorated macro-cannon and walls:
And let's not forget to mention the gorgeous Plasma Obliterator:
Even manufactorums, for all their near-absolute dedication to efficiency and productivity have a degree of aesthetic worth:
We get to see the inside of a fortress-monastery of the arch-typical Space Marines: the Ultramarines. Within, we find paint, coloured banners, statuary, and other decorations.
And let us consider Cadia, a warp-touched Fortress World locked into Eternal War, where everyone has to learn to fight and all of the planet's resources go into defence.
Their towers and anti-air/orbital guns are festooned with giant winged saints bearing golden halos and with gold scrolls wrapping around their swords. (Clearer image here.)
Combining aesthetics with functionality has been a consistent and heavy part of Imperial architecture in the entire breadth and history of its existence. It wouldn't have ended on Avernus, whose architects were born and bred Imperial, learned in the Imperial styles, and throughout their careers designed and built military buildings in those styles before ever arriving on Avernus. With its technology, Avernus' cities should be aesthetic wonders.
@Durin I know you just posted the answers on discord, but I think that the whole thread should see it.
1 How long will take for the Nynye to create a potion/antidote?
2 How long would take Azshara to create the focus for the True Rune of Purification?
3 how long will it take to the Eldar to design a Ritual for curing Guiliman?
4 And how long will it take for Vulkan to create an artifact to help curing Papa Smurf?
This is something I must object to. Firstly, Tormod's species, humanity, is not a species that is culturally or biologically inclined towards utilitarian architecture. Look at the vast majority of human cities built during our history and you'll find that there's a substantial amount of effort that goes into aesthetics. It's not all or even mostly built with pure functionality in mind. In 40k, humanity's penchant towards making buildings look aesthetically pleasing when they can has not changed.
While true on Avernus, from what I see Wombat's omake doesn't actually talk about Avernus specifically, and even compares Dis favourably to other Imperial cities.
And I think he was wrong to say that. It breaks from canonical precedent and besides that, architecture has a very real effect on psychology, and uniform, slate grey utilitarianism is not good for the human psyche, the maintenance of which is incredibly important on Avernus. Architecture also has significant influence on culture, which is also important on Avernus since culture is a primary means of unifying people, instilling values, and directing loyalties.
And I think he was wrong to say that. It breaks from canonical precedent and besides that, architecture has a very real effect on psychology, and uniform, slate grey utilitarianism is not good for the human psyche, the maintenance of which is incredibly important on Avernus. Architecture also has significant influence on culture, which is also important on Avernus since culture is a primary means of unifying people, instilling values, and directing loyalties.
What is the benefit to making the architecture of Avernus boring and aesthetically shit? A lot of things shift in Embers for the sake of the rule of cool, or for some narrative benefit. What is the literary value of making Avernus as visually lifeless and devoid of spirit as possible? Why not give it the same treatment as every other fortification in 40k and allow for aesthetic goodness without penalty? There is no negative in doing so and it gives the reader a landscape that feels good to imagine.
It seems to me like Avernite buildings would probably have a lot more curves, particularly internally, as opposed to sharp corners. Since curves instead of corners would make for less shadows and blindspots for things to hide in. Spiders love corners, so Avernites should hate them.
And I think he was wrong to say that. It breaks from canonical precedent and besides that, architecture has a very real effect on psychology, and uniform, slate grey utilitarianism is not good for the human psyche, the maintenance of which is incredibly important on Avernus. Architecture also has significant influence on culture, which is also important on Avernus since culture is a primary means of unifying people, instilling values, and directing loyalties.
I imagine Avernus's architecture is not just uniform, slate grey utilitarianism, but it has utility function maxed out first, and then any aesthetic details added as possible without lowering it. Trying to make buildings as beautiful as possible without losing an ounce of utility is pretty interesting in itself. Plus, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I always enjoyed things that are made with pure functionality in mind, and found a certain charm in designs that organically arise from pursuing a purpose, not being made to look beautiful. Avernites as well might look at expertly made killzone and find it very pleasing to an eye.
What is the benefit to making the architecture of Avernus boring and aesthetically shit? A lot of things shift in Embers for the sake of the rule of cool, or for some narrative benefit. What is the literary value of making Avernus as visually lifeless and devoid of spirit as possible? Why not give it the same treatment as every other fortification in 40k and allow for aesthetic goodness without penalty? There is no negative in doing so and it gives the reader a landscape that feels good to imagine.
Drenched in the light of dawn he felt his heart ache at its magnificence, only Dis really compared in his mind, the utilitarian architecture so often favoured by his species not really lending itself to create something beautiful like the city of Stars.
This is not how Tormod should react. Avernite architecture is as plain and disregarding of aesthetics as it is for a reason, namely safety. It not only saves lives directly, but it's good for the psychology and mood of Avernites. Plainness is often an indicator that something has been made maximally functional. In the case of architecture, that means that a plain building is an indicator that it's maximally safe. As safety is every Avernite's dream, aesthetically boring architecture will do more to uplift an Avernite's spirits and put them at ease than aesthetically pleasant architecture would.
Therefore, Tormod's reaction to the lizardmen's architectural choices should not be one of awe, desire, and appreciation, it should instead be something like distrust, discomfort, or disapproval.
Therefore, Tormod's reaction to the lizardmen's architectural choices should not be one of awe, desire, and appreciation, it should instead be something like distrust, fear, discomfort, or disapproval.
He's looking at their city and seeing similar things as he would in an avernite city, kill zones, choke points postern gates, fall back positions etc. the need for saftey is satisfied, if anything it is greatly satisfied by noting how advanced and well adapted they are, designed by a people who have been living in this region of avernus for longer than mammals were a thing on earth taking advantage of the various defence options offered by the advanced technology and war beasts available to them.
Then he gets to see everything else they are able to add on because that need for saftey is met so well, what he can't tell is what is funcitonal and what isn't, after all he's got to ask what the floating stone islands are for, or whether the giant glowing gems on the walls are for decorations or can unleash enough contained solar energy to scour the country side for miles around to the bed rock (typically the answer is the latter never the former.)
This is not how Tormod should react. Avernite architecture is as plain and disregarding of aesthetics as it is for a reason, namely safety. It not only saves lives directly, but it's good for the psychology and mood of Avernites. Plainness is often an indicator that something has been made maximally functional. In the case of architecture, that means that a plain building is an indicator that it's maximally safe. As safety is every Avernite's dream, aesthetically boring architecture will do more to uplift an Avernite's spirits and put them at ease than aesthetically pleasant architecture would.
Therefore, Tormod's reaction to the lizardmen's architectural choices should not be one of awe, desire, and appreciation, it should instead be something like distrust, discomfort, or disapproval.
Given that your previous criticism was essentially the exact opposite, it kinda seems like you're just being contrary at this point, or that you're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
The fact that Avernus has brutalist architecture, and that to an extent this makes people feel safe and secure, does not mean that Tormod would necessarily be wholly incapable of appreciating physical beauty and aesthetics. In the course of his education he would doubtless have been taught about art and culture, and would at least have learned to appreciate aesthetics, even if he still didn't value form as much as function.
It's also entirely probable that he would have seen the ornate architecture of Imperial space ships in person, and also possible that the interiors of certain buildings, like chapels and such, might have more ornate architecture than for their exteriors.
Plainness is often an indicator that something has been made maximally functional. In the case of architecture, that means that a plain building is an indicator that it's maximally safe.
I think it's actually entirely the other way around. Every building on Avernus is made maximally functional, that's just a basic fact of life. The idea of sacrificing utility for aesthetics wouldn't even come to Avernite's mind, it's like placing your toilet on a ceiling, doesn't even begin to make sense - on Avernus, at least. So, when Avernite sees a building that is not plain and has plenty of aesthetic details, he doesn't think that utility has been sacrificed, but that the makers of the building know extremely well both the capabilities of their weapons and defenses, and the dangers that might attack them in those buildings. Therefore, more ornate buildings are more safe, because those who made them and live in them are more experienced, and less ornate buildings are less safe, because the dangers around them are not as understood.
