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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Ptolemy said:
@Durin , I'm sorry to bother you, but I have a few questions:
  1. Provided he has a suitable son, would Champion Surt be interested in having one of them marry Syr?
  2. Would Champion Surt be interested in arranging a closer political alliance regardless?
  3. Would Muspelheim be able to safely expand their existing Nomad cities?
  4. Could Muspelheim potentially make proto-Nomad cities that weren't as good as original DAoT ones using our current technology, or any that might be available at the tech trade?
  5. More generally, what kind of technological and industrial base and infrastructure would be needed to build new Nomad cities? E.g. For original DAoT ones we'd need Tech level 24 and dedicated gargantuan ship-yards/factories to make them off-world, but for lower-tech inferior versions we'd only need tech 20.
By way of explanation for the Nomad city stuff, I think it would be good to see if we could somehow ensure that Muspelheim's economy will continue to grow despite approaching its natural limits.
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1. he does not
2. yes
3. no, theya re at their maximun safe size
4. yes, they have 9
5. low 20s
Adhoc vote count started by Durin on Dec 7, 2018 at 12:36 AM, finished with 382 posts and 33 votes.
  • [X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
    -[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
    -[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
    -[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.
    [X] Vote to puruse a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    [X] Propose that we talk to the Eldar during the upcoming meeting about possibly continuing to loan the troops to them that we did to pay for the upcoming meeting. This should not be done for free, but earning even minor favors from the Empire of Ashes shouldn't be discounted given how much they are worth.
    [X] Vote against pursuing a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument 1: Expanding to such a larger area would require a change in the government of the Trust because its current methods of administration simply can't scale to such an increased size. Any reasonable agreement that they would be likely to accept would also result in them having a majority control in the system of government vastly changing the political landscape of the Trust.
    -[X] Argument 2: We've recently experienced difficulty defending the 37 worlds of the current Trust against high speed raiding efforts by the forces of Chaos and this vulnerability would only be increased if our size expanded. Against larger more predicted threats we already pool our resources. This would make us more vulnerable to raiding without making us better against a major assault.
    -[X] Argument 3: Improving their infrastructure to the point that they are a greater contributor would be the work of a century, and given the primary economic engine of the Trust is the largely unreproducible productivity of Niflheim and Muspelheim they likely wouldn't ever contribute as much proportionally.
    -[X] Argument 4: The heavy infiltration by spies would be very difficult to overcome without the advantage of a century of isolation. Not only could we expect more rapid leakage of technology, but it will likely lead to increased penetration of spies in their traditional roles of providing information on our activities, resources, and current troop dispositions.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    -[X] Saint Lin is a living treasure who was blessed by the Emperor himself, and thus we should do what we can to preserve his life and health. He's a living symbol of the Emperor we fight for, the last such living Saint, and his value is far beyond anything simply material.
    [X] Plan strange proposals
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    -[X] Saint Lin is a living treasure who was granted knowledge from the Emperor himself, and extending his lifespan has many benefits. He is a one of a kind resource for research into certain esoteric subjects, including Chaos and how to fight it, and cannot be replaced. His death will also be a blow to the Trust's morale when it occurs, so it would be good to delay it.
    [X] Vote to pursue a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.
    [X] The security council may initiate offensives against below subsector level Chaos and Orc polities at their discretion. They may offer surplus equipment and designs of up to TL 12 to nearby imperial remnants at their discretion.
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Adhoc vote count started by Durin on Dec 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, finished with 389 posts and 33 votes.
  • [X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
    -[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
    -[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
    -[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.
    [X] Vote to puruse a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    [X] Propose that we talk to the Eldar during the upcoming meeting about possibly continuing to loan the troops to them that we did to pay for the upcoming meeting. This should not be done for free, but earning even minor favors from the Empire of Ashes shouldn't be discounted given how much they are worth.
    [X] Vote against pursuing a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument 1: Expanding to such a larger area would require a change in the government of the Trust because its current methods of administration simply can't scale to such an increased size. Any reasonable agreement that they would be likely to accept would also result in them having a majority control in the system of government vastly changing the political landscape of the Trust.
    -[X] Argument 2: We've recently experienced difficulty defending the 37 worlds of the current Trust against high speed raiding efforts by the forces of Chaos and this vulnerability would only be increased if our size expanded. Against larger more predicted threats we already pool our resources. This would make us more vulnerable to raiding without making us better against a major assault.
    -[X] Argument 3: Improving their infrastructure to the point that they are a greater contributor would be the work of a century, and given the primary economic engine of the Trust is the largely unreproducible productivity of Niflheim and Muspelheim they likely wouldn't ever contribute as much proportionally.
    -[X] Argument 4: The heavy infiltration by spies would be very difficult to overcome without the advantage of a century of isolation. Not only could we expect more rapid leakage of technology, but it will likely lead to increased penetration of spies in their traditional roles of providing information on our activities, resources, and current troop dispositions.
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    -[X] Saint Lin is a living treasure who was blessed by the Emperor himself, and thus we should do what we can to preserve his life and health. He's a living symbol of the Emperor we fight for, the last such living Saint, and his value is far beyond anything simply material.
    [X] Plan strange proposals
    [X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
    -[X] Saint Lin is a living treasure who was granted knowledge from the Emperor himself, and extending his lifespan has many benefits. He is a one of a kind resource for research into certain esoteric subjects, including Chaos and how to fight it, and cannot be replaced. His death will also be a blow to the Trust's morale when it occurs, so it would be good to delay it.
    [X] Vote to pursue a merger with the Dragon's Nest
    -[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.
    [X] The security council may initiate offensives against below subsector level Chaos and Orc polities at their discretion. They may offer surplus equipment and designs of up to TL 12 to nearby imperial remnants at their discretion.
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Man, we've got way to many psyker actions that need doing.

Was thinking a bit about our counter-intel problems (both immediate/local and with the theoretical Dragon's Nest merger) and thought that putting together an order specifically to focus on that would be a good idea. Sure, it'd duplicate at least some of what the Inquisition does with their psykers, but the skill set wouldn't need to be nearly as combat and secrecy focused so there would probably be way more potential candidates. It would also be pretty good for vetting organizations without pulling Inquisition resources from where they're needed.

Thing is, we've got a LOT of shit that still needs psyker actions to do. All four of our heroic psykers have some availability next turn, but they've all got stuff they ought to be doing too. Ridcully time is flat-out too valuable to spend on order creation outside of Divination orders, and on top of normal Divinations he has both research on fundamental laws of the Warp and the combined project with Lin to do. Xavier really ought to be continuing the Alkehestry tree—we're almost to the point where we start to get results there, after all, and the payoff there should be good. Tamia needs to keep on the Rune research, as that's proving to be an absolute goldmine for improving the effective quality of our psykers with some benefits to the more general elites. And Aria only has a year free, which should probably be spent tutoring the Alpha to at least boost their success chances a bit.

And that's totally ignoring the conceptual bonding research (unlocked way back from Jacob's blade) or the Black Ship project (which would be extremely nice to have once our size quadruples from Dragon's Nest). The backlog just keeps growing and growing. Lord knows what goodies that need us to research and implement the trade deal will bring us as well...
 
Durin said:
1. he does not
2. yes
3. no, theya re at their maximun safe size
4. yes, they have 9
5. low 20s
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  1. In that case, does Surt have any suitable male relatives, or perhaps an unrelated protege, who could marry Syr?
  2. What would it take to be able to safely expand the existing Nomad cities?
  3. If they have the ability to build proto-Nomad cities, then what is the barrier to further development and economic growth? Are they limited in their ability to build more, or does Muspelheim simply not have any untapped resources they could be used to exploit?
  4. What would it take to be able to produce DAoT-equivalent Nomad cities? How close are we to acquiring either specific techs, or to meeting the overall general tech level required?
 
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Ptolemy said:
  1. In that case, does Surt have any suitable male relatives, or perhaps an unrelated protege, who could marry Syr?
  2. What would it take to be able to safely expand the existing Nomad cities?
  3. If they have the ability to build proto-Nomad cities, then what is the barrier to further development and economic growth? Are they limited in their ability to build more, or does Muspelheim simply not have any untapped resources they could be used to exploit?
  4. What would it take to be able to produce DAoT-equivalent Nomad cities? How close are we to acquiring either specific techs, or to meeting the overall general tech level required?
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1. no
2. several major tech breakthroughs in different fields including mateiral tech, Gellar fields, Warp Engines and Repulsor tech
3. the fact that they cant produce the key elements of nomad cities that allow them to harvest magma or produce so much AM and EM
4. multiple major tech breakthroughs, probably men of stone
 
Durin said:
1. no
2. several major tech breakthroughs in different fields including mateiral tech, Gellar fields, Warp Engines and Repulsor tech
3. the fact that they cant produce the key elements of nomad cities that allow them to harvest magma or produce so much AM and EM
4. multiple major tech breakthroughs, probably men of stone
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Well, alas, it seems my dream of a marriage alliance between Muspelheim and Avernus is well and truly dead. Unless, @Durin , you'd consider revising retconning in an appropriate male relative if someone wrote an omake?

I'm still not sure a marriage alliance with Asgard would be best, given just how polar opposite their society is to Avernus's; they have an essentially feudal system with an entrenched aristocracy, whereas we have a very collectivist and meritocratic society. Furthermore, whereas their military is centred around the comparatively small elite of the Aesir knights, ours has a much stronger emphasis upon the wider contributions of society; despite having the elite Helguard we also have a civilian militia that is superior to most professional soldiers.
 
@Enjou
It will change the Helltrooper rebate from overpaying 5% to paying for 50% only.
It will change the Hellguard rebate from overpaying 155% to paying for 70% only.
 
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The Thirtieth Meeting of the High Council Part Three: Rotbarts Proposals
  • Threadmarks
    • The Thirtieth Meeting of the High Council Part Three: Rotbarts Proposals

    Your argument is enough to convince Fabricator-General Scott to support raising the tithe by an additional 5%. This should allow the Imperial Trust to remain in the black for a good period of time, but further strains the economy of the less well off worlds of the Imperial Trust. After much debate you also decided to vote to pursue a merger with Dragon's Nest, a vote that was enough for the motion to pass seven to four. Over the next few decades a plan will be negotiated with Dragon's Nest over the merger, which will be finalized at the next High Council Meeting.

    Your own proposals to spend some of the favors that the Eldar owe you to decade your data-jewels and provide what aid they can to Saint Lin are agreed on, though your suggestion to continue to supply them with troops is tabled until the discussion about the coming meeting. While there is a bit of discussion about relying on Eldar on such important topics the sheer benefits that either could provide and Ridcully's assurances that the Eldar have changed since the Death of the Emperor is enough to make support for your proposals overwhelming.

    Now there will be an intermission, in which you will have the opportunity to set up a meeting with one of the other High Councillors before the meeting turns its attention to the coming Meeting with the Imperial Successors.
    Adhoc vote count started by Durin on May 19, 2019 at 11:41 PM, finished with 166 posts and 19 votes.
    • [X] Plan Minor Favors v2
      -[x] Vote for Aelfric Plan
      -[x] Abstain on second vote
      -[x] Propose use minor favor to trade xenotech from the Eldar for the Sirens can use. This will than be used to trade for True Rune of Purification foci to help in curing Guilliman.
      [X] Plan Just Vote
      -[x] Vote for Aelfric Plan
      -[x] Abstain on second vote
      [x] Call in Favors
      -[x] Vote for Aelfric Plan
      -[x] Abstain on second vote
      -[x] Propose Using Major Favor to ask the Edlar for a major task force
      -[x] Propose use minor favor to trade pressure xenotech from the Eldar to the Sirens. This will than be used to trade for True Rune of Purification foci to help in curing Guilliman.
      [X] Long term leverage
      [x] Call in Favors
      [X] Long term leverage
      -[x] Vote for Aelfric Plan
      -[x] Abstain on second vote
      -[X] Propose encouraging those human worlds we saved to form a coalition.
      -[x] propose sharing infantry scale volkite weaponry with uncorrupted human polities. Even if Chaos doesn't have it and steals it immediately, our front line units will likely be made of power armor before they could use it against us enmass, and volkite performs worse than impailers under those conditions.
      -[X] have the long range scouts look for the Vestri League. The squats are one of the few noncorrupted human tech bases that we don't have access to.
      -[x] Propose use minor favor to trade xenotech from the Eldar for the Sirens can use. This will than be used to trade for True Rune of Purification foci to help in curing Guilliman.
      [X] Plan Rebate Change
      -[x] Vote for Aelfric Plan
      -[X] Propose Grovernor Rotbarts rebate change from last HC
    Click to expand...
     
  • Threadmarks
    • How do people feel about talking to Surt about our MoS STC? I want to Sound Out about selling it to the Primarchs, and plan out how to reveal it to the Trust in general.
     
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    The Trust is struggling economically. Let's wait until the next High Council meeting before we suggest that, when we'll be better able to support that kind of thing.
     
    Again, the Trust can not currently afford to maintain advanced power armour for the Helguard. There is absolutely no benefit to bringing it up and it just makes us look bad to request it. I really don't understand how people keep missing this.
     
    The security council want as many PA equipped Avernites in the Trust army as they can get, we know they will want them. We also know the Trust cannot afford them. Since we already know it's unaffordable it's pointless to bring it up.
     
    Aeondrac said:
    Again, the Trust can not currently afford to maintain advanced power armour for the Helguard. There is absolutely no benefit to bringing it up and it just makes us look bad to request it. I really don't understand how people keep missing this.
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    Again, what do we stand to lose? What, if we give them the option, they are going to point at us and laugh and tell all their friends? If Security Council feels they don't need it, they'll tell us, if they feel they do need it, they'll tell us that, perhaps proposing some special deal.
     
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