The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
If we can get more Astartes chapters maybe set them up one per sub-sector for now. That gives us room for three more straight up, and one more potential when we move into Valinor.
Even Ultramar doesn't have more than two per sector, though we have a number of crucial advantages should we actually get enough gene-seed to make that possible, namely much more productivity per planet. That said, while I love the idea, I don't think that it is possible to supply them with enough recruits from the subsectors right now.
This leaves a very important question about what to do if we end up buying a massive amount of gene-seed from Ultramar or the Primarchs. We might flat-out not have the recruits to make use of it. Maybe give some to the Blood Dragons? Maybe enclose some in attempts at diplomatic outreach to any polities that are short on Space Marines? (Gene seed is as or more valuable than our tech but won't get the Dark Mechanicus after us, if that ship hasn't already sailed.)
 
Archmagi Norbert, Miescher and the Kynigos Temple.

reading this over, I kinda agree that these things as written do not sound like good assassin counters. They would have a role certainly, having something particularly fast and blood houndy to sic on an inlftartor once an alarm is tripped is useful. but I don't see them being an effective counter to assassin by themselves, since the main thing is making sure that the alarm gets tripped.

they seem very well suited for battlefield search and destroy missions however. they are not smart enough to do deep infiltration work, but seem clever enough to eliminate key targets on a chaotic battlefields.

honestly, I think you should just make them sapient and drop the smart animal part of them. "smart dog" and "high end counter espionage" do not go together that well. If you want to give them a wekness maybe have them get a bit to into ensuring the safety of their charges where paranoia can become a major mental health concern, and they maybe pick up a death wish if someone gets killed on their watch. so human level intellect, dog like love and loyalty for their charges.
 
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Talk of long-term territorial concerns has pushed me into looking at the short to intermediate term logistical concerns for the Trust.

Coming right up is the trade summit we've been pushing. No matter what, it will have MASSIVE effects on our economic and military situation—even if the whole thing is somehow a complete dud (never mind how impossible that would be), we will still be getting quite a few data jewels decoded for it.

In the interest of maximizing benefits from said summit, we should also see about having Tranth complete the work on the Grav sheer weapons. It's a five year project, so we have just enough time to get it done before the conference, assuming we start it ASAP. To further facilitate that, we should use a diplo action to get Granalf's help on that. This means we might need to actually use a PA on a diplo action if it both requires one to get the Eldar to decode the data jewels and asking Granalf's help must happen on the first year of the project.

What direction we go with strategic expansion is very dependent on what we get from the tech conference. While it's a fairly safe bet that we'll be getting at least a bit of a boost to everything, some things are obviously going to be getting more than others. However, outside of those obvious conclusions (like our economy getting more of a direct boost than our military), the details are impossible to figure out ahead of time. If we get good terraforming tech, for example, 'expanding' inwards becomes much more attractive. Good void economic tech makes funneling current resources into building more (and further building up) void hubs a good option. Good general colonization tech makes focusing our efforts into expanding into former Valinor space better.

Ultimately, I am very much a fan of continuing to focus on our current colonies as well as implementing what we get from the trade at home for the next fifty or so years. With our native tech the colonies have only just started getting to the point where they are strong enough defensively to really start producing more valuable stuff, and a few decades of continued investment should see them start to reach current core world status. This also gives us a chance to play around with implementation of whatever we get out of the trade deal at established worlds/colonies, which should give us a real leg up in our next round of colonization—as well as hopefully increasing the amount of resources we can throw at it.

On the trade deal itself, I see a fairly wide spread of things we can 'trade'. Of note are:
  • Direct technologies—weapons, reactors, shields, industrial machines, all that stuff. A no-brainer that is what the idea was fundamentally structured around.
  • Technical knowledge. Closely related to the above, but harder to communicate and not directly implementable. Things like our advanced understanding of how haywire weapons work, plasmatics, gravitics, and all that stuff. Vital for designing new tech and improving old.
  • Military knowledge. Observations and understanding of what we've learned about the local threats that may not be common for other polities. New strategies and tactics.
  • Psychic knowledge. Stuff like our understanding of psychic frequencies. Doesn't require a massive show of trust and an exchange of skilled instructors to pass around, but only likely to provide a small boost in research/training for those involved.
  • Psychic training. Requires a very significant show of trust for those involved, as well as logistical problems in getting highly qualified people around. Could be 'simple' (showing runes) all the way to effectively setting up branch schools in other polities. Might need to loan out one of our good psykers for a good long time.
  • Educational system information. Education multiplier is nice, and as humans are humans the knowledge is relatively universal. Probably won't be much of a boost for any involved, but a free +5% boost to productivity is still worth a fair bit.
 
@Durin If present trends continue, how long should it be until the conservative faction of the Adeptus Mechanicus has lost all influence and we can develop technologies like the Very Advanced Reactors without triggering any unrest or loss of morale? What are the wider cultural perceptions of the struggle of progressives vs. conservatives across the Imperial Trust? Is it an issue which people are aware of, or that they have an opinion on?
Over 1000 years, which is how long it will take for all the conservatives in major positions to die of old age like the stubborn fuckers they are.

Don't exaggerate. The gap between an assassin and an elite isn't anything close to that large.
Thousands of chaff? If unsupported sure. Except that is still a win because those thousands of chaff were cheaper, in time and resources, than the assassin.
Elites, particularly if lead by low grade heroes like a magos, will be trading in dozens at worst.

Assassins are effective because they strike unexpectedly. Because they hit weak point. If you have even a vague idea of their location and identity than the vast majority of their threat is already neutralized.

So make a dedicated tracker organism. Or some sensors and tracking devises that your existing forces can use.

So we have gone from an autonomous agent to a remote-controlled drone. If it is dumb enough to need help from its handler it is too dumb to be used against elite assassins. Particularly ones that will have come in knowing these things would be after them.

In terms of combat capability? Exactly as dangerous with or without prep-time. In terms of infiltration? Significantly better. However the Kynigos as you have described them are worthless for finding assassins. They can't guard people or locations. They cannot investigate or search. They just kill things you have already identified for them. A job that conventional elites can do just as well.
reading this over, I kinda agree that these things as written do not sound like good assassin counters. They would have a role certainly, having something particularly fast and blood houndy to sic on an inlftartor once an alarm is tripped is useful. but I don't see them being an effective counter to assassin by themselves, since the main thing is making sure that the alarm gets tripped.

they seem very well suited for battlefield search and destroy missions however. they are not smart enough to do deep infiltration work, but seem clever enough to eliminate key targets on a chaotic battlefields.

honestly, I think you should just make them sapient and drop the smart animal part of them. "smart dog" and "high end counter espionage" do not go together that well.
Oy vey.

First Angelform for the love of god Spaghetti!

Please, it makes it incredibly irritating to respond to you.

Second as it is currently apocrypha I find continuing this argument kinda pointless, however I will respond one more time.

1. Callamus is currently sandwiched between the no 1 abomination polity in the galaxy, which is likely in command of a vast section of Segmentum Tempestus and seemingly the only active necron dynasty in the galaxy, to say shut about all the other random fucks like level 2-3 waaarghs, they keep up by virtue of their industry do you really think they have any elite troops to spare to garrison everything with enough elites to counter all the assassins without suffering hellish levels of attrition to again say nothing of damage to the one thing that's keeping them in the ****ing war?
2. I admit the whole smart animal thing was in part because I thought it was cool and because I felt it would be easier for them to secure their loyalty, and because I'm sick and tired of depressing assassins. I wanted to something DIFFERENT for a fucking change eh? Is that too much to ask, given all the other stupider shit out there. Evidently it is.
3. This is my fault I didn't communicate what they were good for ****ing castrate me.

I fucking sorry I did it, happy now!

I mean, I don't really have a skin in that argument, but let's look at it:

Callamus has 117 sectors.
Looking at polities in our region, a sector on average is about 100 worlds.
With 1 trillion Battle Congregations, I would be pretty comfortable deploying 117 billion BCs just as reserves, before thinking about general garrison needs dictated by Chaos speed superiority. That would give me around 10 million BCs per world, which, to me, looks like enough of a force to deal with several super elite assassins.
Bullshit they have that many.

  • Military knowledge. Observations and understanding of what we've learned about the local threats that may not be common for other polities. New strategies and tactics.

Local threats are good for our little corner of Segmentum Pacifius fucking useless for anyone else and I can't think of anything useful or unique about this area of space.

Info on things like the Necrons, Tyranids, Dragon and Dark Eldar should be shared for free.
 
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Local threats are good for our little corner of Segmentum Pacifius fucking useless for anyone else and I can't think of anything useful or unique about this area of space.

Info on things like the Necrons, Tyranids, Dragon and Dark Eldar should be shared for free.
Was talking more about everyone sharing information gained about the things they face. For example, while I really doubt we'll be fighting the Tau, I would like it if we at least had military knowledge about them just in case (or for application to our own tactics).

Of course, most of the local threats are universal (Orks, Chaos, etc), so just about everyone should have stuff to share about them.
 
Over 1000 years, which is how long it will take for all the conservatives in major positions to die of old age like the stubborn fuckers they are.
Well, in that case we should be trying to figure out what we can do to expedite the process. How can we undercut support for conservative amongst the newest generations of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and what can we do to oust, demote, and marginalise conservatives who are in positions of authority? A thousand years is too long to be sitting on potentially game-changing technological advances.
 
Was talking more about everyone sharing information gained about the things they face. For example, while I really doubt we'll be fighting the Tau, I would like it if we at least had military knowledge about them just in case (or for application to our own tactics).

Of course, most of the local threats are universal (Orks, Chaos, etc), so just about everyone should have stuff to share about them.
Frankly if we are fighting the Tau either they're the Deceiver's patsy, or something's gone really ****ing wrong, though I have my doubts about the utility of their tactics else where (their powerful cause they're high tech while also being able to equip everyone to close to their highest level).

However, getting details on what crap the DE are going to hand over to chaos is a good idea.

Well, in that case we should be trying to figure out what we can do to expedite the process. How can we undercut support for conservative amongst the newest generations of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and what can we do to oust, demote, and marginalise conservatives who are in positions of authority? A thousand years is too long to be sitting on potentially game-changing technological advances.
Done already.

Scott's reformed the **** out of the training programme for new tech priests so they're very likely to be progressive, that's not an issue especially when combined with the constant political legitimacy they're getting vs the conservatives. Scott has a lot of power so she's getting as many progressives into power as they come in and the third most important admech (leader of the conservatives) is somethng like 1100 years old now so should be shuffling out the door soon punching their political power in the balls with it since his successor won't have anywhere near the same clout.

Other wise piss off the man of iron enough that should do the trick.
 
2. I admit the whole smart animal thing was in part because I thought it was cool and because I felt it would be easier for them to secure their loyalty, and because I'm sick and tired of depressing assassins. I wanted to something DIFFERENT for a fucking change eh? Is that too much to ask, given all the other stupider shit out there. Evidently it is.

the idea of an assassination temple that is not gloomy is a good one. maybe instead of non sapient they are just really cheerful and optimistic? they do the big dog thing of being silly cuddle floofers around their friends, possibly to the point where they provide a noticeable morel boost to allied troops/mental health boost to kids they guard. but are viscous murder machines against their foes.

so you can have a temple of cheerful happy go lucky assassins who tend to cheer people up off the battlefield, and tend to be better bodyguards then killers. but are very efficient at their job when they do have to go out rip someone apart.
 
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Done already.

Scott's reformed the **** out of the training programme for new tech priests so they're very likely to be progressive, that's not an issue especially when combined with the constant political legitimacy they're getting vs the conservatives. Scott has a lot of power so she's getting as many progressives into power as they come in and the third most important admech (leader of the conservatives) is somethng like 1100 years old now so should be shuffling out the door soon punching their political power in the balls with it since his successor won't have anywhere near the same clout.

Other wise piss off the man of iron enough that should do the trick.
Even so, there must be more that can be done to speed things along. The fact that the conservatives are apparently going to be an issue for the next thousand years certainly indicates that there's a lot more we could do to hasten their decline. I'm aware that a thousand years isn't necessarily that long when it comes to unwieldy institutions like the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the fact remains that a thousand years is plenty of time for us to be wiped out by a rampaging Waaagh or crusade from the forces of Chaos. We simply can't afford to wait that long.
 
the idea of an assassination temple that is not gloomy is a good one. maybe instead of non sapient they are just really cheerful and optimistic? they do the big dog thing of being silly cuddle floofers around their friends, possibly to the point where they provide a noticeable morel boost to allied tropes/ mental health boost to kids they guard. but are viscous murder machines against their foes.

so you can have a temple of cheerful happy go lucky assassins who tend to cheer people up off the battlefield, and tend to be better bodyguards then killers. but are very efficient at their job when they do have to go out ripesomone apart.
To make it more grimdark, you can have it so that their friendliness and mental affinity for killing both increase over time, leading to insane Joker-esque figures. They would, naturally, get along well with Harlequins.
 
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To make it more grimdark, you can have it so that their friendliness and mental affinity increase for killing both increase over time, leading to insane Joker-esque figures. They would, naturally, get along well with Harlequins.

I think that would be missing the point. wombat seems to be trying to make something that is not super grimdark for a bit of contrast.
 
Even so, there must be more that can be done to speed things along. The fact that the conservatives are apparently going to be an issue for the next thousand years certainly indicates that there's a lot more we could do to hasten their decline. I'm aware that a thousand years isn't necessarily that long when it comes to unwieldy institutions like the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the fact remains that a thousand years is plenty of time for us to be wiped out by a rampaging Waaagh or crusade from the forces of Chaos. We simply can't afford to wait that long.
Bad experiences with Abomination worshipping techpriests would tilt them faster, but we beat this fleet too easily.
 
Even so, there must be more that can be done to speed things along. The fact that the conservatives are apparently going to be an issue for the next thousand years certainly indicates that there's a lot more we could do to hasten their decline. I'm aware that a thousand years isn't necessarily that long when it comes to unwieldy institutions like the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the fact remains that a thousand years is plenty of time for us to be wiped out by a rampaging Waaagh or crusade from the forces of Chaos. We simply can't afford to wait that long.

we've pretty consistently put mainting stability over moving quickly, like we explicitly advised scott against moving progressives into key positions instead of neutrals. I would like to point out aside from there being things we can't do, the conservatives have been remarkably quiet, even as they approach the tipping point of political irreverence. The tech conference is likely to be another big blow to them, both directly and by letting us expand the admechs military and creating new positions of power that don't already have a conservative in them.
 
Even so, there must be more that can be done to speed things along. The fact that the conservatives are apparently going to be an issue for the next thousand years certainly indicates that there's a lot more we could do to hasten their decline. I'm aware that a thousand years isn't necessarily that long when it comes to unwieldy institutions like the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the fact remains that a thousand years is plenty of time for us to be wiped out by a rampaging Waaagh or crusade from the forces of Chaos. We simply can't afford to wait that long.
Alright I was frustrated at the time and being hyperbolic, although not by much.

Even then the only thing we can really do without delving into the **** no territory of intrigue is to do the admech expansion.

Durin has confirmed that taking it will reduce the Conservative influence there considerably as Scott will stuff it with progressives. Given that the admech is currently 50/50 any increase will put them into the progressive camp.

the idea of an assassination temple that is not gloomy is a good one. maybe instead of non sapient they are just really cheerful and optimistic? they do the big dog thing of being silly cuddle floofers around their friends, possibly to the point where they provide a noticeable morel boost to allied tropes/ mental health boost to kids they guard. but are viscous murder machines against their foes.

so you can have a temple of cheerful happy go lucky assassins who tend to cheer people up off the battlefield, and tend to be better bodyguards then killers. but are very efficient at their job when they do have to go out ripesomone apart.
That's just some body guard last hunters who instead of being broody crazy went cheerful crazy, that's not interesting we have that or could make it.

we've pretty consistently put mainting stability over moving quickly, like we explicitly advised scott against moving progressives into key positions instead of neutrals. I would like to point out aside from there being things we can't do, the conservatives have been remarkably quiet, even as they approach the tipping point of political irreverence. The tech conference is likely to be another big blow to them, both directly and by letting us expand the admechs military and creating new positions of power that don't already have a conservative in them.
It fucks the first and sixth warnings so that's good.

Hopefully then we can convince Scott to fuck the fourth one too.
 
That's just some body guard last hunters who instead of being broody crazy went cheerful crazy, that's not interesting we have that or could make it.

i'd argue a race of cheerful dogmen is pretty distinct, but if you want to work it out more we have the omake discord.


It fucks the first and sixth warnings so that's good.

Hopefully then we can convince Scott to fuck the fourth one too.

the thing about the warnings is that some of them have a point. or at least prescribe things that can be dangerous if you don't know what your doing. So if you move to fast in undoing them you risk stumbling into actually dangerous stuff that can make the rest of them look like maybe a good idea. We need to move slowly so we can more effectively nail down what things the warnings forbid that are actually bad ideas.

for example the warning about AI, it's dumb but AI is super freaking risky to mess with. So the odds of a bad screw up making the fourth warning look maybe justified if your not super careful is pretty high.
 
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i'd argue a race of cheerful dogmen is pretty distinct, but if you want to work it out more we have the omake discord.
It is, but that would be making an actual abhuman species something which I do not believe is allowed even by the laxer standards of Callamus yet.

And no. Maybe in the future, but I'm both too drained and too irritated to even want to at the moment thank you very much.

If you want to do something with the idea go a head be my guest.

the thing about the warnings is that some of them have a point. or at least prescribe things that can be dangerous if you don't know what your doing. So if you move to fast in undoing them you risk stumbling into actually dangerous stuff that can make the rest of them look like maybe a good idea. We need to move slowly so we can more effectively nail down what things the warnings forbid that are actually bad ideas.

for example the warning about AI, it's dumb but AI is super freaking risky to mess with. So the odds of a bad screw up making the fourth warning look maybe justified if your not super careful is pretty high.
That wasn't the point though, the point was that Ultramar and Callamus's existence is overwhelming proof that their first and sixth warnings can be broken and broken hard, which naturally makes people wonder about the validity of the rest of the warnings as well as giving 1000 years of basing on what works and what doesn't (completely fucking redundant of course since without AI the only real danger is chaos and being a movie scientist.)

I won't go into AI, because the good lord Durin knows I've ranted about that enough about how the justifications for it are bollocks.
 
@Durin

1) Would asking Arethea about the major players give us much about said players or would she only give a bit of information?

2) What can you tell us about the Fae?

For the first question imagining from a pragmatic standpoint that it would make sense to just give a bit of information to take into account future races that haven't been made yet and to encourage people to actually explore but am curious about how much info we would get if any for asking.

For the second just curious about them since you mentioned that they were major players in the warp and wondering how they compare to the likes of the Penguins of Avernus.
 
The fleet we beat was Undivided. The Abomination one went to Muspelheim, but that's a progressive stronghold so there wouldn't be any tilting.
Now that was just poor target choice.
It fucks the first and sixth warnings so that's good.

Hopefully then we can convince Scott to fuck the fourth one too.
We also need to spin things a certain way. As the guy presently in command of the military wants to start a civil war the instant people start doing something that is construed as disobeying the warnings we kind of need to wait until expanding the Mechanicus military before we do anything that uses Xenos machines or contradicts the knowledge of the ancients.

I've also always assumed that if we wanted wider implementation of soulless sentinence would require that we first suffer a serious loss, and realize that we need something better to rebuild and keep fighting.
I think the local Necrons are fixing to try and provide that loss after their fleet comes back from the war in the void, at least we can maybe get the battle to happpen in the colonies or the Blood Dragons territory.
Actually, I'm not even sure if the Blood Dragons local AdMech are distributing their technology widely -speaking of which, I'd think it might be worth considering to get the Adeptus Mechanicus to hold back on distributing the fruits of the Tech trade for long enough to trade some of it to the Svaralfar in exchange for their stuff.
 
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