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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Enjou said:
Building ships on the other hand comes at a high cost, and the bigger our shipyards the more AM and EM we have to invest in each batch of ships, and if we're not using them to max capacity then we're wasting the investment.
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Ships aren't that expensive in Embers (to the point I always felt they are too cheap personally), and we can always sell any excess ship we produce and use the credits to buy resources/services we need. And Trust will always needs more ships, even if they are just cargo haulers.
Angelform said:
Ships can be built anywhere.
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Not everywhere, for shipyards you need
a. Heavy void defenses because they are priority raiding targets for anyone who wants to fuck with Trust, Deiphobe currently has one of the heaviest orbital defenses in the Trust
b. While not strictly neccesary existing void infrastructure and experienced void workers is needed to build new shipyards in any reasonable timeframe (remember how it took us forever to build shipyards at first?), and again we have both of those, especially with void worker juvenat.
Shard said:
Nurgle appears to want Avernus to become a major producer of navy. Our current infrastructure is sufficient for producing the ships for the fleet type we desire.
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We're constantly growing and size of fleet we need/can afford also constantly increases.

To be fair Helheim's shipyards will never so much as approach the size Vanaheim ones (who had ton of shipyards before fall of Imperium and funnelled majority of its (vastly increased by AdMech and DAoT tech) resources into expanding them), but any increase is always a good thing.
 
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If we want more creatures. What about those beings that resembled monkeys that are insane good savants with tech? They also could be use by the inquisition (if the person who told me about that use in the table game is to be believed).
 
adamashield said:
If we want more creatures. What about those beings that resembled monkeys that are insane good savants with tech? They also could be use by the inquisition (if the person who told me about that use in the table game is to be believed).
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Jokaero, and they are with the Krorks. Also they are fellow creation of the Old Ones and not really something Eldar would sell us, at best they would put us into contact with them.
 
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Angelform said:
Again: Can =/= should.

We 'can' make elite troops and ships. However doing so means having less elite troops. It means not selling the resources we have a surplus of to buy the resources we are short of. Which in tern means the rest of the Trust cannot use those resources.

I agree that having all our shipbuilding in one place is unwise. I disagree that having it in two places is meaningfully better. If we sell the resources needed to build ships then the colonies will be incentivised to build shipyards and take up the slack. None of them will have many yards within the century. But if enough of them have some yards then Vanaheim stops being such a critical point.

So where do you expect the Trust to find the resources to subsidise Titans? Our resources are not unlimited and we are already milking the Trust heavily for power armour.
As to why we pay: Because we are the ones with the big fancy Forge Hives.

To your final point: I would sooner build and sell shipyards than ships, assuming we have the ability to transport them.
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No where has Durin said that building shipyards or ships would take away from Avernus soldiers.

@Durin would building shipyard and ships take away from us having as many elite soldiers?

Minus Nilfhiem and Muselphiem the colonies build as much Am and EM as the other 8 core worlds right now. That is not including us releasing the industrial STC's we have to them. Or any tech that we get from the conference. It will take decades if not a century to build the shipyards up before we need to worry about spending Am and EM on ships. By than we will have the huge forge hives built and any tech we get implemented. So finding enough Am and EM will not be that hard.

Population wise we will have doubled in 70 years at one percent growth. We will have a population over a 100 billion. So us not having enough people to man ships that require far less population wise than the armies we seem to be tithing every possible time we can. If we keep tithing at the rate we are going we will be getting enough Am and EM from the Trust to be in the black without importing any more, baring is spending Am and EM on the shinnies that Durin offers. So really not having enough people or resources to build ships is just wrong.
 
Nurgle said:
No where has Durin said that building shipyards or ships would take away from Avernus soldiers.

@Durin would building shipyard and ships take away from us having as many elite soldiers?
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"I can choose to spend my $100 on burgers or spaghetti, costing $10 and $25 each, respectively. If I buy burgers, will that reduce the quantity of spaghetti I can buy?"

Because that's what this question sounds like.
 
Shard said:
"I can choose to spend my $100 on burgers or spaghetti, costing $10 and $25 each, respectively. If I buy burgers, will that reduce the quantity of spaghetti I can buy?"

Because that's what this question sounds like.
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The criticism I am getting from building shipyards and ships is that it would take from having elite soldiers and cost to much Am and em.
 
Nurgle said:
The criticism I am getting from building shipyards and ships is that it would take from having elite soldiers and cost to much Am and em.
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Our Elite Soldiers, armed with Power Armor and exotic tech and so on are not cheap. It's not as if we're abandoning shipyard capacity either, it's just less of a priority compared to stuff like our hilariously expensive army, admech stuff (where military expansion actually helps the progressive cause a lot), etc, etc.
 
Shard said:
Our Elite Soldiers, armed with Power Armor and exotic tech and so on are not cheap. It's not as if we're abandoning shipyard capacity either, it's just less of a priority compared to stuff like our hilariously expensive army, admech stuff (where military expansion actually helps the progressive cause a lot), etc, etc.
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Again, shipyards are dirt cheap AM/EM-wise and ships themselves are not that bad either and most importantly we can sell ships to buy way more AM/EM than it took for us to build them. And getting hyper-focussed on Avernus itself which is already a minority in Helheim system and will become more so as times goes on seems short sighted.
 
Shard said:
Our Elite Soldiers, armed with Power Armor and exotic tech and so on are not cheap. It's not as if we're abandoning shipyard capacity either, it's just less of a priority compared to stuff like our hilariously expensive army, admech stuff (where military expansion actually helps the progressive cause a lot), etc, etc.
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Building shipyard cost us 10,200 Am and no upkeep. We can afford the thrones. Material and metal easily. All we need is time and to take actions building shipyards.


Upgrading the Hellguard actually gets us more Am and em. So spending that on the does not require as much. Also the huge forge hives that we are going to be able to start building in the coming turn will solve lot of our Am, em and somewhat relic problems.

I will state again that I will be asking for rest of the trust to subsidize the building of Admech forces and titans. Because reallly why Avernus has to pay for either of those does not make sense.
 
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DeusFerreus said:
Again, shipyards are dirt cheap AM/EM-wise and ships themselves are not that bad either and most importantly we can sell ships to buy way more AM/EM than it took for us to build them. And getting hyper-focussed on Avernus itself which is already a minority in Helheim system and will become more so as times goes on seems short sighted.
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hmm, I wonder if we could set something up where the trust subsides orbital industries by paying for the first few ships upfront? the Trust would both build up shipbuilding infrastructure and its fleet.
 
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Upgrading the Helguard right now gets us AM and EM back because of the deal we have with the Trust where they heavily subsidize the Helguard (to the point where they pay us more than 100% of their upkeep expenses) in return for a larger tithe of them. While right now we could afford to upgrade them to advanced power armor, it would ultimately cost the Trust a bundle, and might reduce how many they're willing to subsidize. I would be extremely hesitant to do so without the support of the Security Council.

On the flip side, equipping our PDF with the basic power armor would cost us a fair bit, but might result in the Trust increasing their tithe size and subsidy. It's also guaranteed not to look like we're exploiting the the subsidy agreement we introduced last council meeting.

Either way, my highest priority right now is having a positive trade balance this round, as we've basically maxed out what we can borrow. That's almost certainly going to limit the projects we can do for the next decade or three, but there are still plenty of cheap or revenue postive things for us to do.
 
@Durin, can minor religious gods do stuff like the gods of order from Warhammer Fantasy? By that I mean can they do things like give their clergy Divine Lores and give blessings and such?
 
Andres110 said:
@Durin, can minor religious gods do stuff like the gods of order from Warhammer Fantasy? By that I mean can they do things like give their clergy Divine Lores and give blessings and such?
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they can but generally only to a very limited number of people. That sort of things really burns power until you reach a certain importance.
 
Since Isha can't provide Warhammer-like stuff, I think we should find a young god and introduce them to the Avernite xenos instead of Isha. Having these kinds of specialised people to potentially call upon would be useful. I specify young god because Durin said that all the older minor gods are dicks. Probably won't find a lot of minor gods that are both young and have useful domains, but Zahak's pantheon probably has at least one. We should have Ridcully divine the pantheon's composition when he's available again.
 
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@Durin
1. Out of curiosity, how powerful are minor Gods compared to Chaos's Greater Daemons/Daemon princes? For example Yharim and Yharon are a rather fighty focused duo, how would they stack up?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
@Durin
1. Out of curiosity, how powerful are minor Gods compared to Chaos's Greater Daemons/Daemon princes? For example Yharim and Yharon are a rather fighty focused duo, how would they stack up?
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1. there is a massive range. the most powerful minor gods can match an exalted, just, while the weakest would struggle with an aspiring. I would put the Yharim and Yharon at around the level of an honoured
 
I think the shipyard argument is strange.

We have a shortage of civilian shipping for the trust and with the current travel times and even if we get to astronimcan levels of traveltimes somehow we will still need sick carrying capacity to make interstellar trade worth it. And we can sell our ship building stuff and we can do only ONE ship building action at a time and we dont have to use them altough it isnt very efficent not doing any of them if the upkeep is a issue .

What nurgle is suggesting since we had a death we can choose the void spec person and use him to build more large shipyards and the more shipyards we build the more or just basicly keep 2 of 3 actions tied up in building ships and shipyards and have one available action there only wich isnt ideal honestly but we have done this in the past.

And being able to rebuild losses is a important part of our naval issues since we are a pretty op naval faction and making this a further strenght seems wise.

Especially if eventually we start spawning crusade fleets to squash local stuff or help against the orks.

Random thought if the necrons dont get to distracted by the destroyer , i imagine they will be distracted by the kroks and orks more than us and after that probably chaos factions before they descend to dealing with imperials if we dont poke them . Im pretty sure they are kinda needed to deal with orks especially higher level waaghs.
 
I don't like solely focusing on armies simply because of the fact that warp storms are a thing.

We would be fucked if we get cut off from the Trust and don't have means to build and repair ships rapidly.

Hell, we would be fucked if Vanaheim gets cut off.
 
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