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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- United states
Another positive on getting started on Alkhestry is that we may be able to gain income by selling what we make to other polities. That and it would give us a lot more things to trade with the other major human polities when the meetings happen.
John Masaki
The Guy With the Lightsaber
- Location
- Atlantis
And here I thought they would be named Larry, Curly and Moe.
They're definitely scary powerful and would need mighty feats to take them down, or even get close to them. But the one who manages it and lives will be honored beyond all measure. And the one who manages to tame them...well, you'd probably need to be a Primarch for that feat.
Incidentally, guys, I'd like someone to see to that this gets done ASAP:
I think we should get these psyker kids a chance to pass their trials, to say nothing of the other bright young things of this generation. If we want to succeed against Turoq, one of the things we should try and do is cultivate more heroes and what better time for them to cut their teeth and make names for themselves than the Chaos raids?
- Location
- Australia
More heroes will not help us withstand Turoq's strategy.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Turoq's strategy is dangerous due to it's potent multiplication of force due to maneuverability and information. Basically it amplifies his effective naval strength by about ~20 times, I would estimate. More force doesn't help us much, but better application of force would help a lot.
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John Masaki
The Guy With the Lightsaber
- Location
- Atlantis
Okay, assume I'm a new commander who's just out of strategy school. What's the overall strategic, tactical and logistical situation concerning Turoq? I have some inkling, such as that his daemonic forces have a way of tracking our ships in near realtime conditions, but what do we know so far, what do we not know so far and what's our current strategies for handling him?
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Turoq knows where our ships are, and his ships are faster than ours. His strategy is to repeatedly raid where our ships aren't, taking technology and leaving sleeper agents. He plans to reverse-engineer and sell the technology to other Chaos factions in exchange for enough help to crush us. Our strategy for handling him is to make his raids too costly for him to keep up. We cannot attack him back because he's too far away.
- Location
- Huezil
And he's intelligent enough to know when we are leaving something vulnerable on purpose, so the only possible way of at least crushing him is to basically warpinto a system rightly after he starts raiding a planet. Except that he has diviners, and he would go extremely suspicious of every time the divining becomes messed, because we have Ridcully and he can mess turoq divining, except that Ridcully is only one person and Turoq has scores upon scores of diviners.
So every time we jammed a divining of place, his fleet would abort the raid and his other fleets would hit like a truckload of bricks the places we dind't jamm.
The other option would be total saturation, but we don't have fleets big enough protect the core worlds and the colonies.
So every time we jammed a divining of place, his fleet would abort the raid and his other fleets would hit like a truckload of bricks the places we dind't jamm.
The other option would be total saturation, but we don't have fleets big enough protect the core worlds and the colonies.
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Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
So I've done another dive into Durin's spreadsheets, and this is what I've found.
I've found the psyker pass rates, and I've confirmed the pass rate caps. Normal psykers have a cap of 80%, and Alphas have a cap of 65%. We are two percent shy of hitting the Epsilon Pass Rate Cap.
@Durin
1. Since the Rune of Warding's research action said that the total ward could potentially be used for helping students, do we get a teaching bonus? Do we need to do an action first?
2. Once you've hit the pass rate cap for a given power group, do better sanctionites just give students extra veterancy?
I've found the psyker pass rates, and I've confirmed the pass rate caps. Normal psykers have a cap of 80%, and Alphas have a cap of 65%. We are two percent shy of hitting the Epsilon Pass Rate Cap.
@Durin
1. Since the Rune of Warding's research action said that the total ward could potentially be used for helping students, do we get a teaching bonus? Do we need to do an action first?
2. Once you've hit the pass rate cap for a given power group, do better sanctionites just give students extra veterancy?
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. you will need at action first, one that is not yet available
- Location
- Australia
Turoq's plan is very robust and sensible, quite unlike most plans devised by Tzeentchians. It's an effective plan, but it's worth noting that it is, in fact, rather non-Tzeentchian. Merely making use of such an uncomplicated, boring plan is highly unlikely to be pleasing to Turoq's patron god. He may not be able to keep using it for very long if he wants to stay in Tzeentch's favour.
John Masaki
The Guy With the Lightsaber
- Location
- Atlantis
So we have to act more, ah, chaotic than he is and potentially get Tzeentch's own nature to work against Turoq?
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- Location
- Huezil
The problem, this plan is so robust and sensible, that he can spun things behind it in ludicrous ways. So let may a play little Turoq here.
1 - he's making people think he's expending a lot of his fleets on raiding the Imperial Trust and Co.
2 - that means due to his tzeentchian patron, people will doubt if he's really following this plan to the letter or is scheming something behind and using this as smokescreen.
3 - responses can vary from doing the bare maximum to deny Turoq's raids to going all in against him.
4 - that means that he can dance and change all he wants, because he has two plans running at the same time depending on his enemies responses. If they go all in, he raids his enemies with impunity, and people go maximum defence, he can use the raids as smokescreen and plan wildly.
- Location
- Australia
The opposite, actually. Tzeentch might be offended that his pawn is acting so boring while his pawn's enemies are acting more amusingly, but the inferiority of our strategic mobility would make this strategy ineffective in a strictly military sense. A robust defence against this robust attack will bore Tzeentch, so it will accomplish the same task of making Turoq lose favour with Tzeentch while still being effective from a military point of view.
If he's running two major plans at the same time, that means he's burning through a great amount of resources. He'll need to continuously reap very significant profits in order to continue paying for both of them.
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- Location
- madison
it may be costing him favor, but he has other far less dangerous neighbors to go full complexity addiction against. I doubt he'll swing at us with anything but his most robust and practical plans.
- Location
- Australia
That would be another major effort he'd have to dedicate resources to, except this time it's against a polity that can effectively fight back that knows Turoq is currently preoccupied. He can handle a major war against us, but us and a rival Chaos polity? It'd get him Tzeentch's favour from the sheer ambition but he'd be fucked militarily.
- Location
- madison
My understanding is that the chaos policies are usually low-level fucking with each other. Raids and the like, which would be a good low intensity place for complex schemes to farm favor.
or he could just sacrifice a few billion slaves, but this is all assuming a simple effective plan has a serious favor drain at all, rather than simply reducing the amount of favor gained from striking at his gods enemies.
- Location
- Berkeley
The raiding strategy is effective, but it will only work for a limited amount of time.
Right now we're vastly outproducing what is being lost to raids, and our member worlds are devoting more and more resources to building up effective defenses against them. The attritional damage his raiding forces take is just going to keep trending upwards, and will eventually reach the point where he can't sustain it.
Plus, as more and more of our systems reach the point where the local defenses are able to see off the raids without needing Trust assets, the Trust forces that would be stationed there can be moved to the more vulnerable worlds—which will in turn reduce the damage we take driving raids off as well as increasing the damage they take.
Also, one thing I want to point out is that it's only strategic speed that they have us beat in. Thanks to the DAoT thrusters and power systems, I'm betting that our naval forces have a significant edge over the Chaos equivalents for in-system maneuvering. If it's enough to be able to avoid unfavorable engagements is questionable, but it should certainly be enough to make pinning down any of our forces that don't want to fight quite time consuming at the least.
Right now we're vastly outproducing what is being lost to raids, and our member worlds are devoting more and more resources to building up effective defenses against them. The attritional damage his raiding forces take is just going to keep trending upwards, and will eventually reach the point where he can't sustain it.
Plus, as more and more of our systems reach the point where the local defenses are able to see off the raids without needing Trust assets, the Trust forces that would be stationed there can be moved to the more vulnerable worlds—which will in turn reduce the damage we take driving raids off as well as increasing the damage they take.
Also, one thing I want to point out is that it's only strategic speed that they have us beat in. Thanks to the DAoT thrusters and power systems, I'm betting that our naval forces have a significant edge over the Chaos equivalents for in-system maneuvering. If it's enough to be able to avoid unfavorable engagements is questionable, but it should certainly be enough to make pinning down any of our forces that don't want to fight quite time consuming at the least.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
BTW I asked and apparently we need to hold Turoq for about 50 years, then we'll reach a point where his tactic flat out can't work anymore.
- Location
- Australia
I have found very interesting things in Inquisitor: Martyr. The interesting stuff begins when a tech priest called Omicron tries to talk to the Machine Spirit of the Martyr, which is a ship. The interesting stuff starts here and ends at 1:10:06.
Later, when the Inquisitor goes back to his ship, he talks to Omicron.
Immediately after the conversation, the Inquisitor goes back into the Martyr to do stuff. He talks to Omicron over the vox.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Makes sense, sacrifice is incredibly meaningful in the warp, if one's belief is true enough I can easily see the admech accidentally creating a sapient "Machine Spirit" (I'm not doing my normal thing I promise it is a machine spirit) through ritual, specially made machinery and the soul binding onto it. Hell this isn't even the first time the Admech has done this, albeit again accidentally.*
*Note when I say accidentally I'm basing this on the not unreasonable assumption that the admech while having an idea of what they were doing had no absolute idea of what they were doing and more threw what they had at a wall to see what stuck.
Hell I want to reverse engineer the Mind Catcher so we can figure out something similar, but as a proper ritual that we can perform when needed rather than a theoretical accident.
- Location
- Australia
Perhaps we can fuse Saint Lin's soul to the Machine Spirit of a worthy vessel? (The Deus, perhaps?) This wouldn't be a way to save his life - he'd die - but instead to allow his death to serve the Emperor's will forever.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
If he wants to.
And even then lets get the Deus first.
Speaking of how long do we think it'd take us to build one? IIRC at conservative estimates its meant to be 30KM long possibly longer?
I get the feeling it falls under impractical at this stage.