I'm sure they will find it very easy to collect...
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
I'm sure they will find it very easy to collect...
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
[X] Plan Minimum
[X] Plan Max Am and Em
- Location
- United states
The planet doesn't really need a psyker to take out rogue psykers since they do that all the time. It also doesn't make sense that we have only one single guy handling a bunch of psykers considering by that logic we only have 4 psykers to handle the millions of psykers we have.
And nothing is stopping us from sending a team of psykers that can restrain psykers as well considering that we literally have millions of them including psy hunters. They'd also have a far easier time of training psykers because other worlds do not have the high rate of psyker production we have.
And? Seriously, people need to remember that other planets are not Avernus. Beta's are extremely rare to the point that most planets may not see one for centuries while Alphas are rare to the point that an entire sector may not see one for centuries.
Yes, that is unreasonable because planets would just kill the beta or gamma anyway. Especially since we can send hundreds of battle psykers with the guy sent to found a branch. But what's really unreasonable in my opinion is the fact that after over a hundred years we still haven't gotten one single person that can found one branch while we have over 50 worlds and are going to have way more if we merge with the Dragons Nest despite us having millions of psykers.
Hence why I keep saying that the standards we currently have are ridiculously high considering that if the planet that produces a million psykers a decade can't find a person to do that job then everyone else is screwed when it comes to training psykers.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
Our psykers are far better on average because the weak-willed ones are more likely to get weeded out. The Avernus being Warp-touched means our psykers are constantly hearing the Whispers of Chaos, so more of them go crazy than usual. @Durin mentioned this when I asked about possibly moving the Neo-Astropath trainees off-world for their testing to increase their pass rate. The Telepathica likes doing the tests on Avernus because it's easier to spot the future Chaos servants.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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No they don't need them, but neither do we. Maybe we should disband the Witch Hunters because clearly they're not needed to minimise casualties.
The point that seems to keep going over your head is that we want them to lower casualties, no them going out to fight them everyday is not required, but it seems reasonable to both reduce psyker sentiment so the population cooperates with you and to reduce damage to everything. This is not even mentioning how important this likely is on a place like Vanaheim, where most of the population and by numbers the most psykers are in orbit.
It only takes a moderately intelligent beta level to figure out that telekinetically opening all the airlocks at the same time will kill a lot of people.
And don't engage in reducto ad absurdum, a prospective primaris won't be teaching everyone, but they will be taking mentor actions like our primaris can. Traditionally with the most powerful psykers who have the least chance of passing and are the most unstable, thus need the most support from the most experienced and more than likely powerful psyker around (since all our master candidates are at a minimum Gammas IIRC with most of them being betas.)
And you are forgetting Durin's statements, that this is over 5 thousands years from 40K.
Betas are the new gammas, they're rare off Avernus, but at current time the Midgard branch has 2 fully trained with another 3 training in various roles.
Alphas are the new beta which people may not see for centuries as opposed to millennia like it was before.
Yes, at potentially gargantuan casualties, we have enormous infrastructure dedicated to killing psykers and we loose millions to em every year, but equally relaxing our standards could also have severe consequences.
For example what if the headmaster is say our exemplar battle psyker he's very good at his job, but he's likely to start an anti psyker pogrom because chances are he's got piss poor diplomacy.
Or one of our grandmaster sanctionites, possibly more diplomatic, but the beta they brought in got agitated, exploded and he doesn't have the training needed to either stop the beta or shield the campus and whoops the branch is now mostly dead.
If it makes you feel any better we should be up for that promotion soon, each of our current elites has an 11% chance of promotion to master, and there's 6 of them that should be good for the role (there is more, but the Alpha twins are too inexperienced, and the lady bonded to the siren would definitely start a riot.)
Still, for now the colonies don't have the billions strong population of Midgard or Vanaheim, so none of them need a branch (yet).
- Location
- United states
That doesn't discount my case in that it's unbelievely ridiculous that so much is dependant on one single psyker. Seriously, most of the stuff is going to be handled by other psykers instead of single person. The same thing applies to literally every position including ours that has us have a number of people under us that we delegate to. The thing is that the high standards are decided by QM making them arbitrary.
What I'm saying is that I feel that the QM made the standards way too arbitrary high due to all the reasons I mentioned because honestly it makes no sense for us to not have anyone that can handle that position considering that we should have a ton of people around game start Ridcully's abilities and it's been 200 hundred years with us getting a million psykers a decade. Honestly all the arguments just seems like weak excuses for something that makes no sense considering how easy it is for us to find replacements for our advisors anytime any of them fall.
That's actually is pretty important to note since that's another thing that seperates Avernus from other worlds is the fact that Avernite psykers are actually more likely to go crazy due to living on a warp touched world.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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It also makes little sense that we can't delegate and let the admech simply expand their infrastructure across the moons speeding up these things considerably.
Take it up with Durin, I can't remember the last time he's ever done things without having a good reason for it being that way.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
@Durin
1. Does Turoq have pets, trusted lietenants, friends or loved ones we could place under threat to unsettle them?
More plans for fighting turoq:
My next plan is outreach to all of the uncorrupted human polities within 500 light years, and also probably beyond that.
I think nearly everyone is suffering from similar raiding problems, what with being surrounded by forces faster than them.
If everyone within 500 or maybe even 1000 light years could be convinced to collect 2-5 percent of their forces together into combined crusade fleets this combined fleet could act as a distraction and threat against any chaos polity in the area, allowing anyone who wanted to to close the distance with their own fleets and launch an invasion against a faster opponent, while being able to hold an actually threatening force over the heads of their opponents to prevent them from devastating uncorrupted worlds while their fleets are in transit.
2. Is this doable?
1. Does Turoq have pets, trusted lietenants, friends or loved ones we could place under threat to unsettle them?
More plans for fighting turoq:
My next plan is outreach to all of the uncorrupted human polities within 500 light years, and also probably beyond that.
I think nearly everyone is suffering from similar raiding problems, what with being surrounded by forces faster than them.
If everyone within 500 or maybe even 1000 light years could be convinced to collect 2-5 percent of their forces together into combined crusade fleets this combined fleet could act as a distraction and threat against any chaos polity in the area, allowing anyone who wanted to to close the distance with their own fleets and launch an invasion against a faster opponent, while being able to hold an actually threatening force over the heads of their opponents to prevent them from devastating uncorrupted worlds while their fleets are in transit.
2. Is this doable?
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
Not Durin of course, but...well
1. Turoq is an ascended Daemon prince, he cast aside any real ties he had a long time ago. If he had anything or anyone he truly loved before ascending I'd imagine its gone, possibly sacrificed to fuel his ascension.
2. I think you are vastly over estimating our ability to even contact all these people never mind convince them to work together to create a fleet of any real effectiveness...
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
On the first point, yeah that could easily have happened, but people tend to form emotional connections over time. Failing to do so generally correlates with withdrawl from society, and would disadvantage a person trying to maintain control over a political organization and as such probably isn't something Turoq is doing.
On the second point, I still think it might be doable.
I'm going to elaborate on that.
It's about a year's travel out to Roskilde, which means that reaching anyone within 500 light years should be half a year or less to get there and a similar amount to get back. That's an entirely reasonable travel distance to maintain a close diplomatic connection and real life nations have done similar when facing travel distances of multiple years.
I also think that it'd be helped out by the way that Imperial Crusade Fleets were political messes of multiple groups that lacked the authority to command eachother showing up to help, each for their own reasons, and even inside of these organizations cultural and language differences could be debilitating.
There's institutional experience in settling those kinds of command issues and forging that mess into a cohesive whole.
But essentially what I think will be the best arguement in favor of it is the experiences all of the other Polities have suffered through.
Everyone else has spent the last thousand years gradually losing ground to enemies that are too mobile to respond to on the strategic level constantly puttering about and exploiting their every weak moment.
If you think we're frustrated with being unable to take the fight to Chaos, imagine how everyone else must feel.
Moreover all support for this scheme relies on a common root belief, namely that Chaos polities shouldn't be allowed to continue spreading and outcompeting uncorrupted polities.
I imagine every uncorrupted group agrees, but just isn't sure what to do about the problem.
An this really is only a small fraction of any one group's forces.
If that isn't enough we could try to convince the Blood Dragons, then rely on the fact that they've been interacting with these people for a thousand years and everyone knows the Blood Dragons are uncorrupted and(presumably) trustworthy. Maybe we could also lean on any contacts our surviving space marines made before entering the warp storm?
Finally, I'm not sure the roving Crusade fleet actually has to be that effective.
There are only a couple of scenarios I could see them being engaged:
What they would try do to screen a local campaign is essentially move the crusade fleet into the territory of whichever Chaos minor(10-90 worlds) they're attacking, then deny the enemy a chance for a decisive battle or a chance to trap them.
Under this scenario they would only fight to break out of a trap or exit a battle.
By doing this for a couple months they would be able to force the enemy to keep their forces screening their own systems until whichever local polity they are supporting can close the travel distance.
At which point they would take a secondary, supporting role in the campaign, still avoiding heavy casualties because we don't want to sour anyone we can sell on this idea.
Under this scenario they would only fight in a supporting role and avoid heavy combat.
They would also become engaged if the group they are threatening decides to give up and go for a mutual kill(or escape with their fleets intact) anyway, if that happened they would be assualting undermanned defences and taking ground fortificatiins with few or no soldiers in them.
Under this scenario they would be taking positions that are nowhere near as heavily manned as they were designed to be.
Keeping in mind that going for a mutual kill is still more practical for a Chaos leader than it is for us, as they would be able to transition their fleets into being a migratory warband more easily than we would. It's still an undesirable option for a Chaos leader to take, they lose their safety net and suffer a major defeat and embarrasment at the same time.
The final circumstance where the roving Crusade fleet might be engaged is if they were released to cover a polity against raids while they replace their forces after a mojor battle.
Under this scenario they might retreat if faced with a battle that might destroy the roving crusade fleet and would only engage against smaller raids.
None of these exactly require the best possible army, though I imagine many contributors will send their better troops, their long term survival could easily depend on the impression they make and the favors they earn with potential allies.
The major threats to this force would be traps and betrayal.
I imagine that every Chaos group that meets this in battle will try to trap them, with a trick, or a ritual to prevent them from escaping, keeping up with this will be a problem and will probably eat up a lot of Ridcully actions and local spy ring, Inquisition, and Adeptus Astra Telepathica resources.
The even more serious problem is betrayal, fear of it might actually be enough to prevent them from agreeing to the plan, they've suffered through betrayal as allies fall to corruption as often as they've suffered raids from faster enemies.
We could lean on any Space Marine reputation we could coopt, and I for one would be willing to put our money where our mouths are and trade away some tech in order to secure support for this fleet,
but keeping betrayal from killing this in practise would be a mild challenge and would once again be leaning on the Inquisition and Telepathica.
In summary I have thought a lot about how it might turn out and still think it's possible.
If we don't have the reputation or goodwill to draw on to make it possible we could try trading for a hero of the Imperium from another polity(maybe through the eldar?), by getting ahold of somone that everyone would respect to put in command of the hypothetical force we could push it through even if conventional diplomacy fails.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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That's in real life with humans. Not daemons and especially not for chaos. Especially not for tzeench.
Dude with our fastest ships it three years travel to Rokslide and another three back not 1.
And that's with our best navigators (who thanks to not being doubly crippled are faster than the rest) warded ships and Void Abbaci.
I'd bump it up to four for most ships.
That's not how Imperial crusades worked at all, they were called for specific reasons for specific purposes by the high lords with an overall warmaster command structure. There were significant cultural differences between regiments, but there were no real command issues beyond the kind you'd find in any proper military. And again they didn't just show up to help they were made with a specific goal in mind.
And yeah there is experience...for an institution that collapsed 1000 years ago and the worlds in this region would not have said experience as that was the domain of the high lords and the higher ups of the Imperial military none of whom would be in the minor worlds.
You vastly underestimate the scale of human idiocy and the scale of human selfishness, some of which has a practical basis in this case.
You also over estimate their long planning, we have the luxury of worrying about stopping chaos, the rest of them likely don't and don't have the resources to spare especially since Chaos is not the only threat in the region by far.
Or alternatively chaos uses its greater speed and lack of fog of war to catch the fleet out of position with a larger fleet and turns it into so much space wreckage because they're not dumb.
Any potential "crusade" fleet would instantly become a weak point to create confusion and disillusionment among the various polities, its the perfect target for chaos especially the large number of Tzeenchian ones we have in the area.
They don't need to betray or inside agents, they just need to kill it and they're very well equipped to do so.
Yes because ****ing Fulgrim's available
.There are people other than Primarchs, just not very many who likely have other things to be doing.
For example I would not be surprised if the Ultramarines have a gud diplomacy guy given their recent non aggression pact with the Tau.
And I appreciate that and even considered something like this before as well. However, I concluded the logistics and utility of this would not be effective.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
you do realize that there are at least 3 chaos polities in the region that could individually match the combined fleet and army of all of the human polities put together?
if such an alliance was formed, well to begin with 5% of the forces would be 30 billion men and 400 capital ships, less then what almost any of the chaos polities you know the name of can field and no one would be able to send much more without making themselves overly vulnerable, barring the Imperial Trust
it would also be an easy morale target for any of the major chaos polities, as if they exterminated it it would impact the morale of all of the Imperial forces in the region
finally convincing over a dozen separate governments to contribute forces to a army that has little chance of surviving in a era when no-one has spare forces would not be easy
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- Location
- The Void
[X] Plan Max Am and Em
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
NOOOOO...
Sorry just looking forward to Eldar stuff and getting Eldrad's communication
To a layman like me how off was this?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Ah well, things happen.
Just a bit dissapointed that Eldar is delayed.
Still, with luck INCOMING!!!