The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
How much do you suppose a Helguard army, or 5, would be worth to the Eldar? Also, do you suppose having Helguard off fighting for the Eldar would give us Lessons Learned actions to boost our skill modifier further? It would be hilarious if we managed to get a full hundred added to the skill bonus by the time of Turoq's main offensive, so we absolutely slaughter his units. He can't Exterminatus the planet, because the Old One stations will massacre anything short of a Black Crusade fleet, and Turoq simply doesn't have the resources for that, nor do most of the nearby nations combined.
 
So, a net increase then.
Current AM deficit: -14,958,775
Current EM deficit: -114,837

That cuts down the AM deficit by nearly an order of magnitude and halves the EM deficit.

The other resources are a lot cheaper than AM and EM. We're going for max trade this round, so let's use that to fund a massive military expansion.

EDIT: Also I just realized that this is exactly what @inverted_helix proposed a month ago. Avernite elites, funded by the other worlds.
well it was made possible by a proposal that grew out of tat so unsurprising
 
Also since @Andres110 hast brought a new species of People into existence (congrats on that canon BTW)
Thank you.

I also think Andres made a lore boo boo, since for if we used orbital bombardment to clear areas for colonisation (not a great idea given the side effects of said bombardment) we'd have destroyed things like the Dorothorion DAoT site and the fact that cities like Doriath are built into mountains not in craters leads me to think there was a mistake.
We found out about the ruins only AFTER colonisation (Dorthonion seems to have been founded in Y2). (Even if we knew about ruins, it wouldn't have been too much trouble to send in a relatively small scouting force to check before the place was levelled to the ground.) Doriath is the only city noted to be built on a mountain and the fact that it was built on a mountain doesn't mean we didn't clear it with ortillery first.

There are two alternatives to thinking we cleared the place with ortillery. The first is that we had a large number of troops, materials, and civilians march to the colony targets through many kilometres of psychic death world forest. (No.) The other alternative is that we airdropped them in from above, in which case they would've had to fight and clear the ground right after touching down, taking loads of casualties as they tried setting up fortifications as quickly as possible, then clear-cutting areas around those fortifications to create a no mans land that they can easily see and shoot into. This second alternative is just the ortillery option except slower, costlier, riskier, and with a hell of a lot more casualties.
 
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We found out about the ruins only AFTER colonisation (Dorthonion seems to have been founded in Y2). (Even if we knew about ruins, it wouldn't have been too much trouble to send in a relatively small scouting force to check before the place was levelled to the ground.) Doriath is the only city noted to be built on a mountain and the fact that it was built on a mountain doesn't mean we didn't clear it with ortillery first.

There are two alternatives to thinking we cleared the place with ortillery. The first is that we had a large number of troops, materials, and civilians march to the colony targets through many kilometres of psychic death world forest. (No.) The other alternative is that we airdropped them in from above, in which case they would've had to fight and clear the ground right after touching down, taking loads of casualties as they tried setting up fortifications as quickly as possible, then clear-cutting areas around those fortifications to create a no mans land that they can easily see and shoot into. This second alternative is just the ortillery option except slower, costlier, riskier, and with a hell of a lot more casualties.
Given we were expecting 90% casualties, I don't think we sent down any civilians as it were. Most likely we were landing in force at multiple areas and hoping our colonization would stick by throwing more men at it, OldImperium style.
 
Eh, more a minimum of 70% casualties. We managed merely 30% casualties, which is likely better than most of the safer Imperium Era colonization efforts not supported by super elites (Astartes, Myrmidons, Knights) of a mien amenable towards civilian survival. And yeah, we discovered the ruins after we started colonization. Technically when the Emps died, pretty much every organization with a High Lords representative (sans Astartes and possibly the Custodes) were ripping through the Pacificus command structure for the sheer utter stupidity about the planetary ruins alone, and were likely in a frothing rage when they learned of the Lunar ruins and the MASSIVE ship graveyard. All of which the surveyors (who did deep searches of the system on Inquisition orders) somehow MISSED. This is like no one noticing Roboute out and about visiting the Cafes of Ultramar for a nice cuppa, let alone not being in his stasis pod.
 
[X] Plan Minimum

This plan is based upon the information Durin gave us that:
  • Our upkeep is per resource 25 to 35% lower than in the trading post because the Trust pays for it
  • Our military upkeep will further lower as we thide more soldiers
  • The completion of the AM forge in 2 years time which will increase our AM production by 2.8 mil
Its goal are the following:
  • Get out of dept with Nilfheim. They want so few thing that paying back the dept is hard and with a higher interest payment (they sell so much AM and EM that getting there is trivial) outright impossible.
  • Prevent to get so deep into dept with Muspelheim that we have to pay them interest as well.
  • Buy ONLY enough AM and EM to tied us over until we lower upkeep through increased soldier thide.
Important
This plan propose minimal spending and maximal paying back but even so we incure a dept of additinal 517,372.1 Credits among the other planets.
We are so badly addicted to AM and EM imports that the ABSOLUTE minimum we need to buy is still more than we can pay back

Old Credits (145,880) with Change (127,357.5) result in Asgard owning us 273,237.5 Credits.
0 Cargo used
Sell (197,797.5 Credits)
  • 450 Knights
  • 9 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 20 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 5 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (70,440 Credits)
  • 1,200 times 1,000 AM
  • 1,200 times 10 EM
Old Credits (-19,638) with Change (-20,444.3) result in us owning Alfheim 40,082.3 Credits.
1,200 Cargo used.
Sell (120,615.7 Credits)
  • Training
  • 10,000 times 1mil Metal
  • 2,000 times 1mil Material
  • 2 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 1 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 1 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (141,060 Credits)
  • 2,200 times 1,000 AM
  • 3,000 times 10 EM
Old Credits (2,330,342) with Change (-262,857.9) and selling 276,639 Credits off result in Vanaheim owning us 1,790,845.1 Credits. Because of interest on each credit over 1mil of 10% we get another 79,084.51 resulting in Vanaheim owning us 1,869,929.61 Credits.
5,400 Cargo used.
Sell (644,832.8 Credits)
  • 450,000 times 1mil Metal
  • 10,000 times 1mil Thrones
  • 66 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 50 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 10 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (907,690.7 Credits)
  • 200 Heavy Cruiser (100 for thide)
  • 2,000 Escort Cruiser (1,000 for thide)
  • Upkeep for our flagship
Old Credits (10,460) with Change (-4,937.3) result in Jotunheim owning us 5,522.7 Credits.
0 Cargo used.
Sell (39,762.7 Credits)
  • 500 times 10 Food
  • 2 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 1 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 1 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (44,700 Credits)
  • 3,000 times 10 EM
Old Credits (152,568) with Change (-88,774) result in Midgard owning us 63,794 Credits which are all traded away to Nielfheim and Muspelheim.
1170 Cargo used.
Sell (194,726 Credits)
  • 8,000 times 1mil Metal
  • 1,000 times 1mil Promethium
  • 66 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 20 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 2 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (44,700 Credits)
  • 9,000 times 1mil Material
Old Credits (-43,215) with Change (-229,721.5) result in us owning Svartalfheim 272.936.5 Credits.
0 Cargo used.
Sell (34,878.5 Credits)
  • 5 times 1,000,000 doses of Juve-Nat
  • 3 times 100,000 doses of Advanced Juve-Nat
  • 1 times 10,000 doses of Hyper Juve-Nat
Buy (264,600 Credits)
  • 6,000 times 1000 AM
Old Credits (-992,471) with Change (-7,528.3) result in us owning Muspelheim 999,999.3 Credits.
800 Cargo used and payed for 518 extra Crago.
Sell (254,649.4 Credits)
  • 1,000 times 1mil Material
  • 9,000 times 1mil Promethium
  • 31,897 Midgard Credits
  • 208,536 Vanaheim Credits
Buy (336,218 Credits)
  • 13,500 times 10 EM
  • 1,500 times 1,000 AM
  • 518Cargo
Old Credits (-1,752,130.5) with Change (313,500) result in us owning Nilfheim 1,438,630.5 Credits. The interest will be 43,863.05 so we will own them 1,482,493.55 Credits.
We buy NOTHING from Nilfheim and the interest will eat up 1/7th of what we pay them. Without them accepting Vanaheim or Midgard Credits the interest would eat up 1/5th. We can not go deeper into dept to Nilfheim simply because they are so self sufficient that we can not pay them back. As things stand we are so deep in dept with Nilfheim already that we can not buy anything NEXT High Council meeting and maybe the one after that as well to get out of interest payments.
400 Cargo used
Sell (313,500 Credits)
  • 10,000 times 1mil Thrones
  • 5,000 times 1mil Material
  • 5,000 times 1mil Metal
  • 31,897 Midgard Credits
  • 68,103 Vanaheim Credits
Buy (0 Credits)
  • Nothing
Old Credits (0) with Change 3,400) result in Byzantium owning us 3,400 Credits.
800 Cargo used and payed for 278 extra Crago.
Sell (3,400 Credits)
  • 1,000 times 1mil Metal
Buy (0 Credits)
  • Nothing. We do not have enough Cargo capacity to sent them everything they want. Even getting AM from them cost Cargo.

Edit: Incresead AM as buy Durins notice.

I am starting to feel like Avernus becomes like Greece. As a german that is a double bad...
 
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We found out about the ruins only AFTER colonisation (Dorthonion seems to have been founded in Y2). (Even if we knew about ruins, it wouldn't have been too much trouble to send in a relatively small scouting force to check before the place was levelled to the ground.) Doriath is the only city noted to be built on a mountain and the fact that it was built on a mountain doesn't mean we didn't clear it with ortillery first.

There are two alternatives to thinking we cleared the place with ortillery. The first is that we had a large number of troops, materials, and civilians march to the colony targets through many kilometres of psychic death world forest. (No.) The other alternative is that we airdropped them in from above, in which case they would've had to fight and clear the ground right after touching down, taking loads of casualties as they tried setting up fortifications as quickly as possible, then clear-cutting areas around those fortifications to create a no mans land that they can easily see and shoot into. This second alternative is just the ortillery option except slower, costlier, riskier, and with a hell of a lot more casualties.
And the alternative is that we nuked the areas from orbit, an action which is not only inaccurate, but is also very likely to do away with the colonisation prospect in the first place. We choose areas like Holin and Helms deep for good reasons, nuking em from orbit seems like an excellent way for them too loose said characteristics, like say blasting the fertile valley of Helms deep.

Also Doriath is the only city in Lindon built in a mountain, but its far from the only one on Avernus. Cassonadro for example was primarily built into the tunnels left by a massive Gnaw worm, the kind of things that would collapse if nuked from orbit (the kind of stuff that did collapse after we later nuked it from orbit due to chaos cultists.)

What seems more likely is that we did what we do now, first surveyors to find good spots and find any dangers preemptively (its how we knew not to make a city on the giant turtle) then send in our professional soldiers to set up defences (the first thing that was always set up) and then finally here comes the civilians to create the actual city. Its what we did in Duat, first establishing forts which we held and then using said forts as the foundations for cities and I find it unlikely that we'd not use similar tactics for the other cities, especially when each region had soldiers that were often experts in the region being colonised (Catachans for Lindon) and thus could help build the fortifications much faster.

To clear it up though

@Durin
1. Would we bombard perfectly nice city sites from orbit?

Eh, more a minimum of 70% casualties. We managed merely 30% casualties, which is likely better than most of the safer Imperium Era colonization efforts not supported by super elites (Astartes, Myrmidons, Knights) of a mien amenable towards civilian survival. And yeah, we discovered the ruins after we started colonization. Technically when the Emps died, pretty much every organization with a High Lords representative (sans Astartes and possibly the Custodes) were ripping through the Pacificus command structure for the sheer utter stupidity about the planetary ruins alone, and were likely in a frothing rage when they learned of the Lunar ruins and the MASSIVE ship graveyard. All of which the surveyors (who did deep searches of the system on Inquisition orders) somehow MISSED. This is like no one noticing Roboute out and about visiting the Cafes of Ultramar for a nice cuppa, let alone not being in his stasis pod.
Kinda, I presume the initial surveyors that were got by Klovis merely looked for a world that's suitably dangerous for his special project, although missing something like that is kinda dumb, but equally they weren't looking for city sites or technology, so we probably found them when we sent surveyors down to find said sites (like the ones who discovered the turtle).

Still, them missing it...surprisingly I can say that it's somewhat plausible.

1. We know Avernus is supposed to be harder to find in the warp than a normal system. Not like near invisible, but just harder to find. Given that nothing interesting is supposed to be that way I'd be unsurprising if many navigators just pass it over.
2. The Asgard subsector as a whole is both waaaay off the beaten path (its on the far edge of Segmentum Pacifus) in the segmentum that most consistently goes into rebellion against the Imperium. So its possible for news of this discovery to have missed the high lords potentially hundreds of times.
 
I should mention that the actions that increase the tithe are very heavy in AM, so if you cut it back to much you may not be able to afford them
also 2.8 million AM from the forge not 28 million, read the reward over the out of date fluff
 
I have no idea how this is relevant to the discussion.
We're arguing about whether or not we cleared colony sites by bombarding them from orbit, I assumed we were not limiting the discussion solely to cities in Lindon.

Since there is only one mountainous city in Lindon I drew an example from another city on Avernus to show why I find it unlikely we would have shot a the mountain.
 
We're arguing about whether or not we cleared colony sites by bombarding them from orbit, I assumed we were not limiting the discussion solely to cities in Lindon.
I think that was a bad assumption for you to have made. The reasons I gave for the usage of ortillery in my omake were specific to Lindon because of the unique challenges that Lindon's heavy foliage presented. Other regions don't have Lindon's forests so the challenges they present - and thus the actions needed to overcome them - are different. Elysium, for instance, is mostly plains, so you don't need ortillery to clear the way for a city.
 
I think that was a bad assumption for you to have made. The reasons I gave for the usage of ortillery in my omake were specific to Lindon because of the unique challenges that Lindon's heavy foliage presented. Other regions don't have Lindon's forests so the challenges they present - and thus the actions needed to overcome them - are different. Elysium, for instance, is mostly plains, so you don't need ortillery to clear the way for a city.
No Elysium is merely covered in spears and blood sucking spears that for Imperial era tech requires tanks to move over without being turned into sashimi (speaking of we probably should research that grass...who knows it may help us boost city defences.) And as we later learned they needed to be moved underground, so bombarding the **** out of a site makes more sense since it starts the process quicker.

That seems more reasonable to bombard given that a single shell would likely clear a large chunk of grass without destroying the site, while in Lindon you shoot a section of forest you're more likely to A miss (due to a combination of psycic and now spatial warping effects) and B just create mulched tree debris. Unless its all set on fire in which case you have a whole load of other issues.
 
Orbital bombardment is inherently inaccurate. Those effects would've been like trying to increase a shotgun's pellet spread by making its user hip-fire.
When something is inherently inaccurate something that could make it more inaccurate seems like a big deal, especially since we started off with only three escort ships as I recall. Not a lot of ammo.
 
ok well Than
[X] Plan Max Am and Em
-[X] Embers of Dusk Trade Sheet
Ok First I would like to thank @Void Stalker for taking the time to come up with sheet, positive vibes and good thing too you man. These is going to put us into debt but we will need to spend the coming turns wisely and go for as much industry we can in space and Land. Also the defenses around Avernus need to take a back step and we make as many over the moon with shipyards. Lets also hope the talks with the eldar go well.
We have a lot of unused cargo. Is it possible to rent out our merchantmen since they're not doing anything?
 
@Portec you are going to want to increase Em buying more since most of the surplus you are getting will be eaten up by the 30,500 increase when we finish the current military expansion.
 
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