- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. after the meeting
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Well Midgard is the one polity we send the most metal too so we can easily sell them more in exchange for thrones or something to trade with someone else.
That is kind of why I am going with Enjou leave ourselves open and see who wants to talk. We are not the economic powerhouse that other worlds are, but the military powerhouse since we have the best mass producible troops by a huge margin.
Last edited:
- Location
- Back in Cali
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
Best option for me since there is no one I can think of to talk to.
Best option for me since there is no one I can think of to talk to.
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
- Location
- England
[X] Meet with Champion Surt and Fabricator Scott to discuss launching a progressive coup and taking over the high council.
Gotta have an alternative plan....
Gotta have an alternative plan....
Last edited:
sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
As much as I might dislike Bertil, he has really only been bad/petty once or twice. And in hindsight, we should have actually used some kind of compromise plan concerning Fortifications, or else had proposed an additional plan to subsidize Fortifications and Defenses. DAoT Defenses are expensive after all, so a subsidy could have helped. But I digress. Really, we the players are more petty than Bertil. I mean, some of us just reacted to his pissy mood from us increasing Vanaheim's economic issues and his actually reasonable argument against dealing with the Eldar by suggesting we ASSASSINATE him. That is just... I have no words for the sheer stupidity of that. Would we prefer our Uncle-in-Law? Why yes, of course. But at the same time, Bertil is also wrangling Vanaheim's economy so that it does not collapse into the "eldritch topographies of a taco warping through a tesseract" and drag the trust with it. Hopefully, with the banking reforms we can ensure Vanaheim actually gets a break or something (I'm not an economist, so I have no idea how to help here).
TLDR: Bertil is no where near as annoying as we think he is, otherwise the Inquisition would have already paid him a visit.
We are not always right, and we don't know best. We may have out of universe justification, but that is OOC stuff and can be outright delusional. We have been talking about a tech trade for ~100+ years (since before the last council meeting at least), but only for this one did we actually decide that the proposal would to determine the feasibility of a Tech trade, when initially our plan was to go straight into the Tech Trade while using our hazy OOC knowledge that we could afford it.
I really hate playing Devil's Advocate, but too many here seem incapable of it and dig their heels in and act High & Mighty. You know, the very thing that our fellow Trustees actually HATE about us.
As much as I might dislike Bertil, he has really only been bad/petty once or twice. And in hindsight, we should have actually used some kind of compromise plan concerning Fortifications, or else had proposed an additional plan to subsidize Fortifications and Defenses. DAoT Defenses are expensive after all, so a subsidy could have helped. But I digress. Really, we the players are more petty than Bertil. I mean, some of us just reacted to his pissy mood from us increasing Vanaheim's economic issues and his actually reasonable argument against dealing with the Eldar by suggesting we ASSASSINATE him. That is just... I have no words for the sheer stupidity of that. Would we prefer our Uncle-in-Law? Why yes, of course. But at the same time, Bertil is also wrangling Vanaheim's economy so that it does not collapse into the "eldritch topographies of a taco warping through a tesseract" and drag the trust with it. Hopefully, with the banking reforms we can ensure Vanaheim actually gets a break or something (I'm not an economist, so I have no idea how to help here).
TLDR: Bertil is no where near as annoying as we think he is, otherwise the Inquisition would have already paid him a visit.
We are not always right, and we don't know best. We may have out of universe justification, but that is OOC stuff and can be outright delusional. We have been talking about a tech trade for ~100+ years (since before the last council meeting at least), but only for this one did we actually decide that the proposal would to determine the feasibility of a Tech trade, when initially our plan was to go straight into the Tech Trade while using our hazy OOC knowledge that we could afford it.
I really hate playing Devil's Advocate, but too many here seem incapable of it and dig their heels in and act High & Mighty. You know, the very thing that our fellow Trustees actually HATE about us.
- Location
- Middlesbrough
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
- Location
- Canadia
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
I could see Avernites growing a bit of a superiority complex and arrogance problem due to perceiving most other planets as uncivilized and slow to adapt.
My general feeling towards Bertil is that while he's a decent administrator he's also a symbol of everything that we've been working for centuries to eradicate from the Imperial Trust, everything that literally created a new warp god. I don't think people understand just how bad the Imperium got near the end, it took the Eldar millions of years to fuck Slaanesh into existence and we did it in less than ten thousand while being far less warp sensitive.
His faction being so powerful in Vanaheim is one of the biggest barriers to Muspelheim and Niflheim sharing their secrets with the rest of the Imperial Trust and to the Mechanicus reforming enough to actually start learning how to do real RnD. Also he's first and foremost a businessman who sees Vanaheim as an investment and wants it to "Win" against all the other planets in the Trust, which leads to him disagreeing with many of the things that could hurt his economy in the short term but will strengthen the Trust as a whole in the long term.
I'm not saying we should kill the guy, I'm saying that he is keeping the Trust from progressing in the direction that Avernus has been pushing it to progress and that maybe it would be a good idea to do some divination or intrigue stuff to figure out the best way to get him out of office.
While Olaf may be less capable of building Vanaheim as a military superpower, he's much more able and willing to change it's people and their culture for the better.
I could see Avernites growing a bit of a superiority complex and arrogance problem due to perceiving most other planets as uncivilized and slow to adapt.
My general feeling towards Bertil is that while he's a decent administrator he's also a symbol of everything that we've been working for centuries to eradicate from the Imperial Trust, everything that literally created a new warp god. I don't think people understand just how bad the Imperium got near the end, it took the Eldar millions of years to fuck Slaanesh into existence and we did it in less than ten thousand while being far less warp sensitive.
His faction being so powerful in Vanaheim is one of the biggest barriers to Muspelheim and Niflheim sharing their secrets with the rest of the Imperial Trust and to the Mechanicus reforming enough to actually start learning how to do real RnD. Also he's first and foremost a businessman who sees Vanaheim as an investment and wants it to "Win" against all the other planets in the Trust, which leads to him disagreeing with many of the things that could hurt his economy in the short term but will strengthen the Trust as a whole in the long term.
I'm not saying we should kill the guy, I'm saying that he is keeping the Trust from progressing in the direction that Avernus has been pushing it to progress and that maybe it would be a good idea to do some divination or intrigue stuff to figure out the best way to get him out of office.
While Olaf may be less capable of building Vanaheim as a military superpower, he's much more able and willing to change it's people and their culture for the better.
Last edited:
- Location
- England
I wasn't seriously suggesting it as an expedient political move, I was just pointing out that we probably could do it with our available assets. I'm pretty sure that's the inquisitorial plan for a rouge Vanaheim too, they'd be no great invasion, or battle for the shipyards. They'd be an inquisitiorial Kill squad, possibly helped out by A snuck in Gerald, Mittens and the phase tigers. That's all we'd need to deal with that risk, and because of the interconnected nature of the Trust we'd always notice anything serious like, I don't know, active corrupting of ones own population before it got out of hand.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Well more like fifty. Regardless I checked and apparently if the council goes this is feasible we'll pretty much go straight into the trade as I understand it.
Personally I'd rather have neither Bertil nor Olaf, neither of them are what Vanaheim needs if it wants to truely develop and take advantage of its position in the Trust.
Also personally my only real source of irritation with Bertil is that argument against the tech trade, basically boiled down to them being untrustworthy. He doesn't have OOC knowledge like we do, but equally he does have the knowledge of the paradigm shift in Eldar society and the like, enough that old precedent shouldn't be relied upon (if that makes sense). Varquez's and Freyr's argument for example makes sense, I don't agree with it, but it is logical.
No if about it, Avernite arrogance is an established thing, though not about the uncivilised part. They see them as weak and slow to adapt (though the weak part is apparently normal for Death Worlders).
Depends what you mean, Olaf is a much better military leader, but a piss poor administrator, Bertil is a much better administrator, but a shit tier military leader.
Avernites have reasons to be arrogant yes but the heavy handness that is all the player base. As I get older I realize a lot of problem can be solved in life with diplomacy than violence or other methods.
I was reading the character sheets yesterday going over Bertil character sheet and found Leopolds old sheet. He was considered one of the best gernerals in the Segmenteum. And while being In Avernus did increase his skill most of the marshalls will be better than him, than when he arrived at Avernus if they get to his age or even half his age.
So the trust may literally have the best generals that are not Primarchs or space marines in the Segmenteum.
I was reading the character sheets yesterday going over Bertil character sheet and found Leopolds old sheet. He was considered one of the best gernerals in the Segmenteum. And while being In Avernus did increase his skill most of the marshalls will be better than him, than when he arrived at Avernus if they get to his age or even half his age.
So the trust may literally have the best generals that are not Primarchs or space marines in the Segmenteum.
Last edited:
Jack_Trade
Chasing the Green Fairy
- Location
- Scotland
Yeah but the other methods are usually more fun.
Not really from my experience since they usually involve police, financial consequences and a few lawsuits.Yeah but the other methods are usually more fun.
- Location
- Germany
That's what we have quests for.
Here we can, sometimes, actually win by escalating.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Sometimes escalating is not the best solution.
sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
@Toad Bertil and the Vanaheim branch of the AdMech are Conservatives by our standards, but are Progressive by Old Imperial Standards. We are Left, they are Right, and what we need are Moderates to center our ideas. While we have ideas that seem good by our perspective, that does not mean that they actually ARE good. Even when we think we have a handle on the situation, that means jack shit because our perspective is not perfect. Just because Rotbart thinks something is a good idea means nothing because of all the things we do not and can not know. Remember, when we are asking Durin questions, he almost always gives us in character info which is only as accurate as he determines it to be. Hence why he rarely gives us ANY forewarning on bad ideas, poor choices, poorly worded arguments, and negative consequences for our actions. That is on us as the player base to deduce, seeing as how Durin is not the one playing the quest. There is a reason he can respond to any and all questions with the statement "I am not the player", and admits that he is far more permissive in such matters than a proper QM/GM should be. We take him for granted in that regard, and the fact that he has not quit the quest shows the Dwarven Stubborness of his Profile Pic.
While I would like us to field Muspel- & Niefelheim's "Heretek" technologies, with all the massive industrial boosts they bring, I also look at it from the other perspective and recognize that there are valid points for not doing so. Even if the point is merely preventing a meager and utterly forgettable Civil War that totally will have no negative effects on anything ever. *Snarky Snark the Snark Dog disengaged* Yes, we could do so much better, but at the same time I want us to be damn certain we aren't jumping head first into abject suicidal stupidity. So please, quite the inane "bluh, we should disband the AdMech in it's entirety and just go full Tech-Heresy" because that is just so ignorantly short-sighted, like shooting a Police officer so you don't get a Parking Ticket. Sure, you won't have a parking ticket, but you now have bigger problems.
EDIT: Bankrupting the Trust or any of it's members for short term gains when we have no certainty of recovering in the Long-Term is one such thing. Hence, Bertil's Pissy Mood being completely valid.
While I would like us to field Muspel- & Niefelheim's "Heretek" technologies, with all the massive industrial boosts they bring, I also look at it from the other perspective and recognize that there are valid points for not doing so. Even if the point is merely preventing a meager and utterly forgettable Civil War that totally will have no negative effects on anything ever. *Snarky Snark the Snark Dog disengaged* Yes, we could do so much better, but at the same time I want us to be damn certain we aren't jumping head first into abject suicidal stupidity. So please, quite the inane "bluh, we should disband the AdMech in it's entirety and just go full Tech-Heresy" because that is just so ignorantly short-sighted, like shooting a Police officer so you don't get a Parking Ticket. Sure, you won't have a parking ticket, but you now have bigger problems.
EDIT: Bankrupting the Trust or any of it's members for short term gains when we have no certainty of recovering in the Long-Term is one such thing. Hence, Bertil's Pissy Mood being completely valid.
Last edited:
Not really escalating always causes the other person to feel that they have to escalate too. It is a natural human instinct to want to escalate when things happens. Which is the problem. It is one of the reasons arguments on the internet rarely go anywhere.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Pretty sure only a few people actually advocated for things like dispanding the admech whole sale.
And I was the one who got angry at the lack of progress on getting the MoS online, but I was in a bad place at the time and am now back to normal and have returned to my previous position of waiting and seeing the changes as they come in (cause we have actually made significant progress...)
- Location
- United states
[X] Leave yourself open to be approached by other Governors.
Because we are not playing as the governor of Vanaheim but as the governor of Avernus. If there is a problem it can be adressed when we talk about the government and financial reform. Vanaheim is strategically important and should receive some kind of support for defense.
The fact that any force that gets to its planet would overrun its defenses. That orbital defenses are not be 360 but should be around where the orbital industry is. Because spreading the defense to try to cover the whole planet would be a waste trying defend such a large target as well as not allow the defenses to bring its full force to bear. That planetary defenses also have the ability to protect orbitals since Macrocannons, turbo lasers, and other planetary to orbit weapons are a thing.
- Location
- United states
I think what you are reffering to is SB/SV protagonist sydrome in which many players feel that because they are the protagonist that they are always right and any NPC that disagrees with us is an enemy even if said NPC does have a point and the PC has done similar in the past making it a double standard. Honestly I find that behavior aggravating as hell since it needleslly makes working with other people a lot harder because people can't accept that not everyone agrees with them. Doesn't help that people can be really petty about it at times.
Example being in a 40K quest people were against bringing back Space Marines legions during an existantial threat reasong that that much power concetrated to such a degree just makes another event like the Horus Heresy more likely thus potentially devastating the Imperium even if they did survive. Then when others people in power in-game are against the players themselves having too much power for the exact same reasons they mentioned many players lose their shit saying how dumb it is that they are 'holding them back due to politics' and that due to the existantial threat they don't have time to worry about it... Right after many peoples argument against that kind of thing. The saving grace though is that other players tend to call out the others for pulling that shit.
Last edited: