- Location
- Leeds
I do agree, I'm just not taking this conversation seriously.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Australia
I overlooked something while I was going over the books initially.
@Durin, the description tells you how to apply ungents of warding. The first way is to make a Forbidden Lore (Imperial Creed) (+0) test to apply to apply the ungents. For obvious reasons, this wouldn't work anymore. The other way, however, is through a Scholastic Lore (Occult) test, at -20 instead of +0. This seems to suggest that there are effectively two versions of the ungents. Mechanically they have the same effect, but one seems to piggyback off the power of the Emperor and is thus easier to apply while the other seems to be more "secular", working by some other means (maybe related to Immaterium Echoes?) and is harder to do but doesn't rely on the Emperor.
1. Do we have access to the "secular" ungents of warding, i.e. the ones that are harder to apply than the Emperor-linked ones but don't seem to require him?
2. If not, is it because they don't exist or just that we don't have them?
1. Do we have access to the "secular" ungents of warding, i.e. the ones that are harder to apply than the Emperor-linked ones but don't seem to require him?
2. If not, is it because they don't exist or just that we don't have them?
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. not that can be mass producedI overlooked something while I was going over the books initially.
@Durin, the description tells you how to apply ungents of warding. The first way is to make a Forbidden Lore (Imperial Creed) (+0) test to apply to apply the ungents. For obvious reasons, this wouldn't work anymore. The other way, however, is through a Scholastic Lore (Occult) test, at -20 instead of +0. This seems to suggest that there are effectively two versions of the ungents. Mechanically they have the same effect, but one seems to piggyback off the power of the Emperor and is thus easier to apply while the other seems to be more "secular", working by some other means (maybe related to Immaterium Echoes?) and is harder to do but doesn't rely on the Emperor.
1. Do we have access to the "secular" ungents of warding, i.e. the ones that are harder to apply than the Emperor-linked ones but don't seem to require him?
2. If not, is it because they don't exist or just that we don't have them?
2. unknown
Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
Maybe it' a closed off stadium with security on the roof and with nothing 'climable' on the dome like roof?
Poison would be banned and so would to the death imo unless it's some kind of street fight.
EDIT: @Durin
1. Whatever happened to Klovis's Orbital Vacation things in space? Back when the quest was still very new and before the storm happened he made these orbitals for nobles from other parts of the Imperium to come to see Avernus. Are they still out there?
2. Can I use one of them to be an Orbital Megasports complex that with mild changes can be used for all kinds of sports?
The reason for 2 is because it would help me get around the obvious complaints people have of 'Avernus is too dangerous to have sports because of <input reasons>'. I feel if I can't address that they'll never be able to be immersed into it. Having an orbital where people can buy a ticket to will keep them safe from wildlife and allow foreigners visit to see some wild crazy athletics.
Poison would be banned and so would to the death imo unless it's some kind of street fight.
EDIT: @Durin
1. Whatever happened to Klovis's Orbital Vacation things in space? Back when the quest was still very new and before the storm happened he made these orbitals for nobles from other parts of the Imperium to come to see Avernus. Are they still out there?
2. Can I use one of them to be an Orbital Megasports complex that with mild changes can be used for all kinds of sports?
The reason for 2 is because it would help me get around the obvious complaints people have of 'Avernus is too dangerous to have sports because of <input reasons>'. I feel if I can't address that they'll never be able to be immersed into it. Having an orbital where people can buy a ticket to will keep them safe from wildlife and allow foreigners visit to see some wild crazy athletics.
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- Location
- Australia
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Even if it is I imagine its utility would be very minor on Avernus since pretty much all wildlife are either very strong-willed, have psychic defenses, are part of some sort group/pack/hive-mind and/or have some other, even weirder and more exotic abilities that makes establishing mental connection them A Very Bad Idea.
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sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
I think that power is how you establish a Familiar Bond in the first place, at least with living creatures. Obviously a Psyber Familiar is more iffy.
- Location
- Australia
That's where the willdrainer poison (maybe) comes in.
The power doesn't care if they're psykers.
These ones our guys don't touch.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I'm pretty sure that's more an artefact of how rare psycic animals are on in the greater galaxy, though it does loop around to the will power dilemma. However, I think its fair to assume that most GMs would rule that a species that has a degree of telepathic power or mental barriers would be harder for this power to work on (not necessarily impossible) similar to how I'd expect most of them to increase the difficulty of understanding the information gained if the animal uses senses beyond the human norm.
- Location
- madison
that said, we have an embarrassment of powerful psykers. I could see a delta level being able to use that power on some animals, and a beta level getting a lot of use out of it.
- Location
- Australia
If willdrainer poison stacks and doesn't do permanent damage, the psykers don't even need to be powerful. Just drop an animal's willpower low enough and even a minor psyker would probably pull it off.
- Location
- madison
yeah, but that would make it pretty expensive. will drainer poison isn't exactly cheap.
- Location
- Australia
True. Would allow some of our best to get really awesome animal companions at least.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Yes, but I'm reasonably sure our best don't need help.
In addition, for those with less will power relying upon willdrainer seems like a bad idea. If it isn't permanent, then when it wares off the full willpower of the animal returns. While this may not necessarily result in the animal turning on them, the psyker not being prepared for that level of will power could result in a dangerous shift in their connection. Instead of a balance like with Xavier and Mittens, the familiar could send too many of its characteristics over the psyker in unpredictable ways for example.
- Location
- madison
I think it's a power with a fundmetnly different use on avernus. On other worlds it's a way to get a bunch of semi disposable scouts/low end combatants. The way the local ecosystem means any species has to have at least some resistance to psyekr powers means each animal takes a lot more effort and focus. But, are individually a lot deadlier.
- Location
- Berkeley
I'd expect some backlash if it was done with Willdrainer when it wears off, in addition to the inherent danger of doing what is essentially a mental attack on psychic creature with degraded control of their power.
Plus, while I can see an argument for it being starting point to the making a familiar process, there are probably some issues there. Research on rituals and the like has consistently shown that both intent and process matter, so 'cheating' is likely to result in flaws in the bond. Said flaws could be worth it (an initially less powerful bond, more teething troubles), or potentially catastrophic (a flawed foundation for the bond or creating a weakness in both familiar and master to one or more of the Ruinous Powers).
I could also see this power as rising in difficulty exponentially as the fundamental complexity of the target mind increases.
Plus, while I can see an argument for it being starting point to the making a familiar process, there are probably some issues there. Research on rituals and the like has consistently shown that both intent and process matter, so 'cheating' is likely to result in flaws in the bond. Said flaws could be worth it (an initially less powerful bond, more teething troubles), or potentially catastrophic (a flawed foundation for the bond or creating a weakness in both familiar and master to one or more of the Ruinous Powers).
I could also see this power as rising in difficulty exponentially as the fundamental complexity of the target mind increases.
- Location
- Australia
"Need" is the wrong word to be thinking of. "Would find beneficial" is more how you should be looking at it. Our best can get by with standard equipment but that's no reason to not get them relics and master-crafted wargear.
You two are majorly misunderstanding the nature of the power. Word of Beasts and making an animal into a familiar are two entirely different things. One is a minor psychic power equivalent to mundanely training an animal, the other is a very involved process that involves psycho-cybernetic implants (specifically, through the use of psyber lures) and a soul-deep connection with a whole crapload more potential for psyker shit. The magnitude and scope are completely different. Using willdrainer poison (assuming its effects are temporary) may be a bad idea when you're trying to make a familiar, but for making a mere pet? It should be fine.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Maybe, but who cares it establishes an empathetic link with the animal, that goes both ways.
My point still stands.
- Location
- Australia
As I edited into my post before you made your post, the animal wouldn't be a familiar, it would be a pet. There is a significant difference between the two, and it was the latter I was referring to when I was talking about an "animal companion".
- Location
- United states
@Durin
1) Considering how some of our advisers were worried about a race like Tyranids getting their hands on any hypothetical bio lasers we made would there be many people in the Trust against the idea directing any potential Tyranids invasions towards Avernus due to how much they may be able to gain from the wildlife?
1) Considering how some of our advisers were worried about a race like Tyranids getting their hands on any hypothetical bio lasers we made would there be many people in the Trust against the idea directing any potential Tyranids invasions towards Avernus due to how much they may be able to gain from the wildlife?
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Er. Didn't we learn the last 'nid invasion ran into the Old One defense stations and got zot'd?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. They still exist but are mostly used by locals these days
2. Yes
3. Yes but it can have issues with the wildlife
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Cool, but as the power notes it establishes an empathetic link with the animal. Those tend to go both ways, even if the link is limited. Sudden boost to will power seems like exactly the kind of thing that would cause problems for a psyker, especially one weak enough to require the will power poison.
- Location
- Australia
You have to put the name of the power in context with how the power is actually described. "The psyker establishes a bond with the animal that persists after the telepathic link ends." In other words, after the power ends, there is no more telepathic link. No more psychic stuff. From that, we can tell that "Empathetic Link" is the verb of creating the bond, not the bond itself. The bond is explicitly described as a non-telepathic one that's exactly equivalent to being tamed and trained mundanely. It's like making friends with someone, except via the use of a power instead of socialisation. Same end effect, just achieved by different means.
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sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
@Andres110 as far as a familiar bond goes, technological aids are only for Psyber Familiars, which are more like servitors made from animals/babies to serve as familiars (through the use of Psyber lures and such). For regular familiars, such as Gyrinx and (presumably) the Crows used by Space Wolf Rune Priests as well as Avernus Wildlife, Word of Beasts would be the basic power that the Familiar Ritual would be based on. And as Doomed Wombat reminded you, Word of Beasts creates a TWO-WAY Empathic Bond. And besides, you are assuming that the Willdrainer Poison (as a psyreactive reagent) would not piggy back off of the link link and apply it's effects to the Psyker that inexplicably is dicking around with a minor psychic power and a poison worth almost as much Thrones as he is. Truthfully, I find it likely that any administrators (Telepathica or otherwise) would tell such a psyker to come up with a Ridcully Approved thesus on why he is wasting such a resource on a flight of whimsy. Because as is, it makes about as much sense as stuffing a Rest/Pepper-Up Potion down our Adeptus Administratum advisors throat because if they don't need to sleep then they clearly can run more projects more quickly. Nice quick theory came up on the spot, but in practice ignores any and all possible consequences.
PS: Empathic =/= Telepathic. Telepathic would be a full familiar bond, while Word of Beasts just forms a quick bond that, as you said, persists AFTER the power ends. I can tell you that there are few animals that would react to mind-control with anything other than a Fight/Flight Response. So, obviously it still does SOMETHING to persist.
PS: Empathic =/= Telepathic. Telepathic would be a full familiar bond, while Word of Beasts just forms a quick bond that, as you said, persists AFTER the power ends. I can tell you that there are few animals that would react to mind-control with anything other than a Fight/Flight Response. So, obviously it still does SOMETHING to persist.