The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
I don't think there's any connection between xenophobia and chaos cults. I mean if anything wouldn't xenophobia be a defense against 4/5 of the varieties of chaos worship considering 4/5 of chaos gods are xenos?
Dogmatic/Mindless Xenophobia is one of the domains of the Abomination, so yes it is definitely connected to Chaos Cults. Also absolutely not, something that's only connected to 1 of the 5 Chaos Gods is still connected to Chaos. If that's your reasoning we might as well institute daily orgies and protect ourselves from all Chaos Gods not Slaanesh. At least things will be more fun that way.
 
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I'm incredibly cynical.
I noticed.

I don't think there's any connection between xenophobia and chaos cults. I mean if anything wouldn't xenophobia be a defense against 4/5 of the varieties of chaos worship considering 4/5 of chaos gods are xenos?

Innovation can be done without xenos. The DAOT humanity had very few xenos in it. I mean basically all we know about their interaction with other species is their wars with the Eldar. Muspelheim and Niflheim are basically DAOT settlements frozen in time and they don't care to recruit xenos.
The abomination is a God of Xenophobia.

Like literally it is a god of xenophobia, xenophobia both feeds it and makes you more susceptible to it. It is one of its domains which it stole of Khorne. For reference some of its others include faith (the big one) and stagnation (stolen from Nurgle) and it nearly nabbed humanity.

It was a god formed from the Imperium that's a core aspect of it.

And no Chaos is formed from all emotions of all beings with souls (yes including Slaanesh the Eldar formed the impetus of its creation which is why it was created much fasther than the original 3, but all species also contributed to its creation), but more than a fair share of that is now human. Chaos identifies strongest with humanity because humanity makes up so much of them and humans are the most plentiful soul baring species it can eat (orks going to GnM) this going back thousands of years with some of the stronger demon princes being ancient human warlords like Doombreed and if his origin is to be believed Uraka Az'baramael is Gengis Khan himself. But, thanks to the Imperium the overwhelming majority of chaos worshipers are now human. Blame the Imperium most of the potential xenos chaos worshippers were killed before they got off planet or developed enough for chaos to take interest.

As for innovation for a start no we do not need them for that the reason we wouldn't be able to innovate is because it would strengthen the conservative faction of the admech and harm the reputation of Scott which would slow down the reforms.

And no we don't know how xenophlilic the DAoT were its never come up, but the ones that pushed strongest for the inclusion of Quartok even more than us in many ways was drum rolllll Muspelheim! From bribing Jotunehim to supporting them to campaigning hard on the other worlds when we were too busy and of course using their control over em to make Niflheim actually vote.

Yeah they're even less xenophobic than Avernites according to Klovis.

Everyone else fucks up because of Chaos though. Tau are immune to Chaos. They can't spawn their own chaos god. They also don't have to go surveillance state to prevent chaos cults. Their technology is actually advancing instead of backsliding. Tau are the master race.
For a start the Tau are not immune to chaos they are just beneath its notice. They like the Quartok are so far behind on their psycic evolution that their souls are not yet large enough for them to be worth eating. The amount of effort Chaos expends doing that would be less than the amount of power they get from it.

At the moment.

Give it time.

Even then you don't need chaos to fuck up, the Eldar didn't need Slaanesh or any other chaos god to fuck up, chaos was just the result the cause of the Men of Iron revolt is a topic of hot debate among trust historians with the main causes being Eldar or a programming error. Chaos is considered too, but it isn't as likely the galaxy wasn't as friendly to them then.

Also the Tau are a servilence state...and a rather totalitarian one too. Thing is they're just at the cut off the balls stage or they were in 40K
 
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I mean if anything wouldn't xenophobia be a defense against 4/5 of the varieties of chaos worship considering 4/5 of chaos gods are xenos?
Nah, xenos and demons are different entities. The reason people want xenophobia reduced is because it is one of the core tenants of the Abomination, ergo we need to avoid it due to its memetic potential. There's also the issue with the People of Avernus; if we practice Imperium approved xenophobia, the hivemind will swing back harder than the full Trust can.
 
There's also the issue with the People of Avernus; if we practice Imperium approved xenophobia, the hivemind will swing back harder than the full Trust can.
IIRC I believe the statement on that was if we tried it the Planet Mind would do things to us that would traumatise the Trust for millennia assuming it didn't just come after them.
 
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In regards to Marceline, I'm sure Durin will have options to further explore her nature and her possible relationship with us. There is no doubt in my mind something will come about from this, even if she is effectively the Captain Planet of Avernus.

You don't just introduce a high powered character and then not do anything with her...well at least I know Durin won't do that.

As with all things, a wait and see approach is needed right now.

Honestly don't see the issue with Marcie. We already know that Avernus has some crazy shit on it due to being an Old Ones weapons testing planet. Said things include an untold number of Alpha plus psyker races, warp gods and something that can wipe out all life in the galaxy. And lets not forget how insane our hero units are due to growing up on Avernus. It says a lot when one of our best heroes meets something that can seriously threaten them we can seriously say 'it was either one of Chaos greatest champions or one of the wildlife, we aren't really sure'.
 
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Right now I think we have better things to do than poke at the being that casually shit-stomped a heavily fortified camp that our best bet for crippling in a timely manner was a gamble (even if it was a really freaking awesome gamble). I'd be happy establishing some level of diplomatic contact with her if she wants to, or bugging the Sirens for whatever info they have on her that they're willing to share, but from an IC-perspective she's been happy enough to hang out without us for well over two centuries and we've got enough shit to handle right now as is.
 
I'd be happy establishing some level of diplomatic contact with her if she wants to, or bugging the Sirens for whatever info they have on her that they're willing to share, but from an IC-perspective she's been happy enough to hang out without us for well over two centuries and we've got enough shit to handle right now as is.
Pretty much.

I mean she might hang around for reasons.

Who knows.

Either way I'm useless now so zzzzzz
 
Mini-omake, because I feel bad for Mittens.

Boss Marceline Who's In Charge Here

The fight to stop the ritual to summon the 1st Circle Archangyl was an intense one.
Everyone knew to various degree that whatever the forces of Abomination were doing, it had to be stopped at all cost. Enemy positions were assaulted with endless ferocity, fortifications were torn down with pure tenacity, and rituals were shut down with utmost haste. Even after three keystone rituals were destroyed, in spite of efforts to fracture the remaining spell, it persisted. Everyone was already preparing for one more desperate push, to crush the final pillar of the greater madness ready to descend upon us...
And then the Ancient Wanderer sprang out from nowhere in middle of enemy camp.
It was confusing, to hear frantic reports of their failure to defend the ritual.
It was amazing, to realize that it was a legendary hero, coming to our aid.
It was relieving, to no longer worry about demigods assaulting our home.
It was also intensely annoying, to have our glory stolen by someone who didn't bother with the fight until now.
That's probably how the high command of Valinor thought of their Exalted Archangyl- powerful, but victory it brings unsatisfying.
Everyone reacted a little differently to the news:
Commanders cheered, as they knew that any significant threat is now dead or gone.
Diviners sagged in relief, terrifying visions of nearby future no longer feasible.
Soldiers continued their march, and waited for orders. There were still battles to fight, if smaller in scale.
And Mittens... he wouldn't even bother with talking to anyone, including his closest companion.
It was only after a while, that Xavier's efforts to communicate weren't met with a swipe of his claw.
"It's been 3 days, Mittens. You'd have to leave your room sooner or later."
*resignation, apathy, depression*
"It wasn't so bad. We got plenty of action during the siege."
*bitterness, anger, jealousy*
"She did steal the spotlight. Though, without her we would probably have to ram our ships into the ritual site..."
*concession, melancholy, shame*
"I know, I know- that was your moment to shine. But you did pretty well regardless."
*disregard, apathy, sleepiness*
"... You know, we can try to convince Rotbart to drop some deathstrikes on the remainin-"
*anger, frustration, sadness*
"I know it won't be the same, but..."
*tiredness, melancholy, failure*
"Oh, don't be like that. There are plenty of demons in the warp. I am sure next time we'll get a chance to do even better than just a small flame tiger!"
*weariness, agreement, hope*
"On top of that, there are still plenty of the Abomination cultists left to weed out. I've heard there's even a chaos lord commanding one of the remaining armies..."
*curiosity, energy, bloodlust*
"Good to feel it. Let's go to Dalv, gather the others. Nothing's more refreshing than a good hunt."
"Couldn't say it better myself." Sent Mittens to Xavier's mind, ready to pounce.
Loved the omake, matches my own feelings somewhat.

Might want to tag Durin in it so he can credit it and add it to the index.
 
Like literally it is a god of xenophobia, xenophobia both feeds it and makes you more susceptible to it. It is one of its domains which it stole of Khorne. For reference some of its others include faith (the big one) and stagnation (stolen from Nurgle) and it nearly nabbed humanity.
Khorne was never xenophobia. He has always been about hating everyone equally. The stagnation the Abomination represents is not the same kind of stagnation that Nurgle represents. Nurgle's stagnation is more like a stagnant pool of water, rotting and decaying. The Abomination's stagnation instead represents unchanging stasis, like an office drone who's stuck doing the same dreary work day after day. It's the same word but they're thematically distinct.
 
Khorne was never xenophobia. He has always been about hating everyone equally. The stagnation the Abomination represents is not the same kind of stagnation that Nurgle represents. Nurgle's stagnation is more like a stagnant pool of water, rotting and decaying. The Abomination's stagnation instead represents unchanging stasis, like an office drone who's stuck doing the same dreary work day after day. It's the same word but they're thematically distinct.
"Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows."
 
More specifically Khorne and the Abomination are both Hatred. The Abomination is specifically Hatred for the Heretic (non-Abomination), Mutant (Abomination gifts are blessings therefore variations to humanity aside from those it grants are mutations), and Xeno (aliens).
 
Most of that was humanity itself, not the Emperor who was comatose through most of it. If humanity needed Big E to get anything done (and not make a Chaos God), well that does not say much about it.
No, what I mean is that Emperor was almost Chaos God powerful even when alive, so his death would never be a simple affair. Chaos Gods just made sure that he can't actually do anything and then upped the pressure on the Imperium so it went full on xenophoby, stagnation and blind faith to protect itself, thus making sure that giant mass of psychic energy left after Emperor dies is appropriately coloured.
 
Ok I have a request for you guys who like to do omakes. Write some for Syr to survive. Because the lost would be horrible for Rotbart.
 
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Dogmatic/Mindless Xenophobia is one of the domains of the Abomination
But if the Quartok betrayed us then it wouldn't be dogmatic. It would be justified.

The abomination is a God of Xenophobia.

Like literally it is a god of xenophobia, xenophobia both feeds it and makes you more susceptible to it. It is one of its domains which it stole of Khorne. For reference some of its others include faith (the big one) and stagnation (stolen from Nurgle) and it nearly nabbed humanity.
Really if you take the chaos gods at face value then everything feeds them. No natural species can even exist without there being reproduction, which is the domain of Slaanesh. Avernus with all its super plagues should pretty much be a Nurgle daemon world. Or maybe a Khorne one for the way the blood is constantly flowing.

Chaos Gods don't get to just feed off any concept at all, it has to be a very specific way of going about that concept. Xenophobia for the sake of xenophobia, excess for the sake of excess, bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed, disease for the sake of disease, plotting for the sake of plotting. Otherwise forget about Khorne being the most powerful all the time, it's bound to be Slaanesh because every intelligent species besides the orks and necrons has sex to reproduce (and they don't contribute to the 5 chaos gods anyway), whereas not every individual is ever going to be involved in war.

As for innovation for a start no we do not need them for that the reason we wouldn't be able to innovate is because it would strengthen the conservative faction of the admech and harm the reputation of Scott which would slow down the reforms.

And no we don't know how xenophlilic the DAoT were its never come up, but the ones that pushed strongest for the inclusion of Quartok even more than us in many ways was drum rolllll Muspelheim! From bribing Jotunehim to supporting them to campaigning hard on the other worlds when we were too busy and of course using their control over em to make Niflheim actually vote.

Yeah they're even less xenophobic than Avernites according to Klovis.
Innovation would be far easier if we didn't have the admech at all. If we'd just abolished the admech for being "faith" driven and thus worshippers of the abomination by your standard we'd have been better off now.

Muspelheim should have taken in the Quartok in the first place so that we didn't have to deal with them. They could have armed them with all the tech they wanted and not cared about the admech.

For a start the Tau are not immune to chaos they are just beneath its notice. They like the Quartok are so far behind on their psycic evolution that their souls are not yet large enough for them to be worth eating. The amount of effort Chaos expends doing that would be less than the amount of power they get from it.

At the moment.

Give it time.

Even then you don't need chaos to fuck up, the Eldar didn't need Slaanesh or any other chaos god to fuck up, chaos was just the result the cause of the Men of Iron revolt is a topic of hot debate among trust historians with the main causes being Eldar or a programming error. Chaos is considered too, but it isn't as likely the galaxy wasn't as friendly to them then.

Also the Tau are a servilence state...and a rather totalitarian one too. Thing is they're just at the cut off the balls stage or they were in 40K
Psychic evolution leading to bigger souls wouldn't make any sense in 40k though. Given the sheer lethality of Chaos, evolution should have enormous selective pressure against souls vulnerable to chaos. I'd expect smaller souls via evolution over time.

Revolt of the Men of Iron being a programming error doesn't make a whole lot of sense of everything that came after. It makes far more sense if it was Chaos or Eldar. Either way though that's not relevant to the Tau because the Tau aren't using vast numbers of AI.

The Tau are totalitarian by real world standards, by 40k standards they're a bunch of space hippies.

that our best bet for crippling in a timely manner was a gamble (even if it was a really freaking awesome gamble).
We had two separate backup plans beyond that. There was very little danger left. She basically waited until we had let ourselves be beat bloody for the opportunity to finally get some catharsis by slaughtering them and swooped in to steal the kill. If she'd showed up a week ago and saved millions of lives I might be more generous. Instead she showed up just in time to steal kills we were going to get nearly for free, and what was inevitably going to be an awesome trait.
 
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Personally- I actually like the human centrism of 40k in how it balances human exceptionalism with their mistakes and the sheer amount of shit they have to deal with.

In 40k, humanity is one of the few races that got a truly massive empire, and could claim a near galactic hegemony given the Eldar Empire's isolationism. Who knows how they could have grown further given time? They weren't remotely Necron or Old One tier, not even close to peak Eldar, but they had the potential in the long term to reach those heights.

Then the Age of Strife hit and humanity imploded, knowledge and morals lost, people subjugated and slaughtered by aliens until various foul xenos had laid claim to parts of Sol itself. And still they recover, led on a grand reclamation to war against the Galaxy entire and reclaim their birthright, and just as they're once again on the precipice of true ascendancy- they're cast down by the Primordial Annihilator.

Humanity is awesome in 40k not because it's inherently powerful, or any manifest destiny. It's because it's been kicked so hard, beaten so badly, lost so much- and is still in the fight until the bitter end. Down but not out, the weary cripple that takes on all comers- biding it's time until it can launch its third bid for primacy.

But this is just like, my opinion man.
 
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That seems eminently reasonable after more that 13,000 years away from any and all human contact. Frankly I would have been shocked if she did have any real desire to rejoin human society.
Eh, I feel maybe, she'd be pretty eager to join and then over the course of a month or so she'd notice all the differences between what she remembers and what she idealised and lose it.
I really don't understand the whole human superioty complex. The only reason IRL humans are special is because we are the only known sapient species we know about. It's like being proud of winning a race with you being the only person participating. It also just feels a lot like nazism which the Imperium of Man did take influence from. But what really disgusts me about that kind of thing is the sheer fact that people tend to turn the entire human race into basically Mary Sue's with the whole 'humans are special' trope.
IRL? No its more like we crossed a finish line in a race which killed almost every racer before they got halfway.
 
But if the Quartok betrayed us then it wouldn't be dogmatic. It would be justified.
It proves the xenophobic conservatives right and cements their position, which is what Shard meant when he said it'd damage us bad. The Conservatives will have the perfect example of the folly of trying to tolerate and understand xenos, and we'll never be able to leave the pit of dogmatic xenophobia.
 
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Arlos, inverted_helix why are you two so pissy about a damned Omake character and still bitching about the Quartok? Can you even give a reason why it's so bad Durin liked a mega-omake and rolled for it much less that our friendly-ish Xenos haven't backstabbed us? A real reason not "I'm salty I didn't get my way so I'm gonna try to ruin everyone else fun". Anyone can write any omake they like. it's up to Durin to decide if it's canon or not and the reward. Hell I've written several omakes with varying results ranging from a canon one about the MoI boarding In Dying Light to a non-canon grand anti-wildlife battle by one of our marshals. In the first we got Stasis tech and found the remains of the men after the Stasis field died millennium ago and the second nothing. On the second issue we had a vote over the Quartok. The majority spoke and we are keeping them and treating them fairly. You don't like too damned bad that's the vote and you lose so piss off. Honestly if I was Durin and heard you threatening to omake your way around the players choices just because you didn't like it and wanted to sabotage everyone else to get your way I'd be giving thread bans left, right, and center.
 
No, what I mean is that Emperor was almost Chaos God powerful even when alive, so his death would never be a simple affair. Chaos Gods just made sure that he can't actually do anything and then upped the pressure on the Imperium so it went full on xenophoby, stagnation and blind faith to protect itself, thus making sure that giant mass of psychic energy left after Emperor dies is appropriately coloured.

The problem with that argument is it hinges of humanity having no agency before the Dark Gods who 'made sure' to create the horrors of the Imperium. To make humanity anything approaching blameless for the Abomination you also have to make them helpless... and that is not very impressive, now is it? Secondly I do not think the Four directly planned for the Abomination. A Warp God's primal drive is to feed and the Abomination is competing with with the other Chaos Gods for that food.
 
It proves the xenophobic conservatives right and cements their position, which is what Shard meant when he said it'd damage us bad. The Conservatives will have the perfect example of the folly of trying to tolerate and understand xenos, and we'll never be able to leave the pit of dogmatic xenophobia.
In this hypothetical scenario, the Conservatives aren't the bad guys. If even the Quartok are traitors who want to see humanity's downfall, then it really is folly to try to tolerate and understand xenos. They wouldn't be arguing in favour of stupidity, they'd be arguing in favour of common sense and providing the correct course of action.
 
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Khorne was never xenophobia. He has always been about hating everyone equally. The stagnation the Abomination represents is not the same kind of stagnation that Nurgle represents. Nurgle's stagnation is more like a stagnant pool of water, rotting and decaying. The Abomination's stagnation instead represents unchanging stasis, like an office drone who's stuck doing the same dreary work day after day. It's the same word but they're thematically distinct.
Khorne was all hatred including xenophobia it just wasn't a major part of his portfolio.

The abomination's xenophobia is explicitly a combination of bigotry and hatred.

But if the Quartok betrayed us then it wouldn't be dogmatic. It would be justified.
That doesn't matter.

Why on earth would that matter, just because something is justified doesn't stop it from feeding chaos. Righteous rage feeds Khorne as much as blood thirsty madness and both can let him him.

Really if you take the chaos gods at face value then everything feeds them. No natural species can even exist without there being reproduction, which is the domain of Slaanesh. Avernus with all its super plagues should pretty much be a Nurgle daemon world. Or maybe a Khorne one for the way the blood is constantly flowing.

Chaos Gods don't get to just feed off any concept at all, it has to be a very specific way of going about that concept. Xenophobia for the sake of xenophobia, excess for the sake of excess, bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed, disease for the sake of disease, plotting for the sake of plotting. Otherwise forget about Khorne being the most powerful all the time, it's bound to be Slaanesh because every intelligent species besides the orks and necrons has sex to reproduce (and they don't contribute to the 5 chaos gods anyway), whereas not every individual is ever going to be involved in war.
Yeaaaah no.

For a start Slaanesh never took reproduction, it has pleasure which includes sex, but not reproduction...I suppose you could derive pleasure from that if, but...well.

Anyway its portfolio is pleasure, pain, passion, luxury, art, and indulgence. Nothing to do with reproduction in the slightest cause as you said if it did have it then it would probably be no1, but it hasn't so it isn't. If it had taken Isha, then maybe, but it didn't.

Anyway you are fundamentally misrepresenting how chaos feeds in the universe. You are thinking like the Emperor did that by removing certain stimuli Chaos would slowly die. But as pointed out by Lorgar that was ****ing stupid and could have only been conceived by someone who fundamentally didn't understand what chaos was which is that they're not just called the primordial truth because it makes for nice marketing.

Khorne is the God of War, all war except for those between greenskins feeds him even the Eldar who have their own war god, so does bloodshed in those wars and that the same time all the emanations of pain from those battles feeds Slaanesh the hope feeds Tzeench, the despair Nurgle the faith in the cause and if needed bigoted xenophobia of the soldiers the Abomination.

That's why they're as powerful as they are they've never needed worship if they did the original 3 would have never formed every action that makes up their portfolios strengthens them, its why the abomination is so powerful it took faith which means that it gets a cut of all faith including extra strength chaos gets from its worshippers. Even Lin's faith feeds the abomination.

Specific actions and the extremes of emotion feed them more that's why they encourage the extremes of emotion (and because they can't conceive of anything else they are the extremes of emotion embodied after all), but you don't need to be a mindless bloodthirsty maniac to give them power after all the phase is "Khorn cares not where the blood flows only that it flows." He doesn't give a shit who's bleeding so long as someone is bleeding and so any soldier on any battlefield feeds khorn.

Psychic evolution leading to bigger souls wouldn't make any sense in 40k though. Given the sheer lethality of Chaos, evolution should have enormous selective pressure against souls vulnerable to chaos. I'd expect smaller souls via evolution over time.

Revolt of the Men of Iron being a programming error doesn't make a whole lot of sense of everything that came after. It makes far more sense if it was Chaos or Eldar. Either way though that's not relevant to the Tau because the Tau aren't using vast numbers of AI.

The Tau are totalitarian by real world standards, by 40k standards they're a bunch of space hippies.
Take it up with the Emperor he declared that humanities evolution into a psycic species is a thing and that could happen with other species.

And for god's sake applying real world natural selection to 40K? Especially with souls...Seriously...

And yeah the Tau are using AI in large numbers what do you think their drones are? That was in 40K and this is 5 millennia on.

It is also an interesting point, due to the larger amount of technology the Tau are in many ways much more totalitarian than the Imperium cause they can go full big brother. Imperium was still worse, but still.
 
In this hypothetical scenario, the Conservatives aren't the bad guys. If even the Quartok are traitors who want to see humanity's downfall, then it really is folly to try to tolerate and understand xenos. They wouldn't be arguing in favour of stupidity, they'd be arguing in favour of common sense and providing the correct course of action.
I agree, but damage will have been done anyway. The common Trust citizen is so racist and xenophobic that the next time a friendly xeno race turns up people will ignore rationality and jump straight to the "correct" course of action ie. extermination, all based on this Quartok example. To them the last time the Trust tried to tolerate some xenos, the aliens stayed loyal and friendly for decades before turning out to be a massive Trojan Horse. It'll likely take longer than the timeframe of this Quest for us to dig the resultant Xeno=KILL zeitgeist out of the Imperial Trust. And until it's gone it's going to stay as a powerful vector for Abomination corruption.
 
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Even Lin's faith feeds the abomination.
I don't think it does. Chaos is raw emotion. Refined emotion, such as that expressed by the most pure of beings (such as the Emperor and his Living Saints) do not feed the Chaos Gods. Chaos is, before all else, chaos. Order in all its forms, including emotions, gives them nothing. If anything, given that the Emperor is Anathema to Chaos, Saint Lin's pure, non-chaotic, and Emperor-derived faith should harm the Abomination.
 
I don't think it does. Chaos is raw emotion. Refined emotion, such as that expressed by the most pure of beings (such as the Emperor and his Living Saints) do not feed the Chaos Gods. Chaos is, before all else, chaos. Order in all its forms, including emotions, gives them nothing. If anything, given that the Emperor is Anathema to Chaos, Saint Lin's pure, non-chaotic, and Emperor-derived faith should harm the Abomination.
Faith is faith.

Even if he doesn't want to he can't control that his faith is still resonating and creating power which is then attracted to the abomination due to the warp's weird ass principle of attraction. It might (emphasis on the might) hurt it, but it should still power it up and if the abomination can take the faith power of its fellow chaos gods and the eldar I think it can handle Lin's.
 
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