- Location
- Brazil
What about normal elite soldiers? And the probable many, many tanks? Mass Conveyors too?
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
mostly mass convoyers. I whousl mention that going after them will increase your losses substantially
- Location
- Brazil
But we can hold out long enough for the Trust Fleet to come smash them up.
We simple have no chance in hell of taking on their Main Fleet and do meaningful damage. We essentially can't harm their best ships at all, and even a rain of crits won't allow us to bring their escort numbers down from "complete overkill".
We either don't fight, or we go all in. Everything else in-between... Doesn't really matter.
Chaff will get cut down by our bombardment and the wildlife. Leaders can be assassinated, daemons banished via choirs. They have to out-Ork the Orks here.
They can easily split their fleet in two or three and it'd still be a horrific fight.
I wrote in to withdraw early if we have mostly accomplished our goal, that is, to not take exponential losses for those few remaining Conveyors. Is that ok?
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- Location
- Berkeley
The best time to take out transports is in harassment.
They are bring people over in, at a minimum, five waves. This wave itself represents a 'balanced force' (per Durin)—for example, the Titan Legion you want to destroy so badly has only half of their number on it even if we destroyed all of the mass conveyers.
They have eight billion people at most landing this wave. Using conventional tactics they don't have a prayer of inflicting major damage to us in a siege. We don't need to further cripple them to achieve the highest possible tier of victory.
On the other hand, should we successfully destroy the majority of their transport capabilities, the situation will be hopeless for them, and they will start breaking out tha MAD tactics immediately—you know, suicide battle ships, sacrificing for a First Circle Angyl, that kind of shit. And even if we can tank that sort of stuff from those numbers, which I don't think is a given, it will do real damage to us.
More, we'd be absolutely guaranteed to lose a massive chunk of our fleet in exchange, and I don't think that itself is worth it. The light forces the Trust lost against the Orks alone will take decades to replace, and other naval threat are very real. While we would be pulling back before we take catastrophic losses, it would be some very substantial naval losses at a time when the Trust is in desperate need of naval strength. Especially if the Valinor + Crusade Navy is going to be largely whole.
- Location
- Leicester UK
If it doesn't matter then we might as well not lose any ships if there is no benefit to it, we should only spend ships and crew when we need to and for a reason, we only need our fleet to survive with as much possible until help arrives and harass incoming waves which we just spent a phase setting up to be able to do it with massive effectiveness from now on and have an admiral who can do it really well.
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- Location
- Brazil
And that's a completely valid strategy that I'm also down for. The reason I'm going for gambling now is that we have our defense stations and mines to help us out. We essentially won't get a better chance.
Especially with no attack craft.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
it wont help much. the main problem is you will have to move though the entire enemy fleet to reach the convoyers, stay long enough to kill them and then get out.
it is possible but no matter what you will lose a lot of ships doing it.
- Location
- Brazil
Point is, they are so big, "largely whole" is a good as we will get.
For one, that's a fucking lot of Titans and tanks and other heavy mahcinery.
Two, they can build escorts by the thousand, but we know they have trouble building and replacing Capitals. Mass Conveyors are bigger than Battleships. Good luck finding more.
Three, we are ultimately playing for time. If we largely criople their main trust and take out half or more of their most dangerous assets, we've essentially won the first phase.
@Durin
1. From what we know/guess, how much of Legio Crucis is aboard those Conveyors?
2. Is it likely that they have more of them?
3. Can they meaningfully transport Titans without Mass Conveyors?
- Location
- Leicester UK
A better chance for what? What will the damage you want to do do for us over this fight? At best it might stop them from trying for Dis but we might be able to do that by acting unpredictable.
Whatever you want from this it will cost us knowing exactly what they are going to do during the invasion and all the advantages that go along with that plus adds damage to our fleet.
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- Location
- Brazil
This is unpredictable. "Fighting retreat" is SOP in this situation.
Suddenly gambit using stolen deployments plans isn't.
Let me reverse it then: What will our fleet do for us later? We havent exactly damaged them until now, with it whole.
If our harassing won't ever get beyond light elements, they have essentially won the void battle, for that's exactly what those elements were meant to do.
I think , thus, this is our best shot at causing them significant losses.
- Location
- Australia
Can we instead go after their high level sorcerous elements? We can survive a lot, but a First Circle Angyl is absolutely not something we want to fuck with considering they're supposed to be Apex level. If they summon one of those things, there's a good chance we'll lose heroes to corruption. We have no assets capable of reliably taking one on.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
passable at best
How vulnerable are their transports to bombers?
- Location
- Leicester UK
Did you see the name of the update? We certainly did.
Wow, one phase and this is what you are saying? We targeted the light ships first so that they wont be able to deal with harassment when they are bringing the rest of the wave as they are vulnerable we can do so incredibly effectively, Durin said we might be able to pull off an ambush with our flagship again if they have a low light ship number and I hope you will agree that our flagship ambushing there transports would be a significant void action with a noticeable effect on the war.
Edit, damn it I need to go to bed for work, stupid work, getting in the way of things that matter.
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- Location
- Berkeley
I think you're vastly underestimating how good our fleet is. We're extremely unlikely to beat them in a fight, but under favorable conditions I could see us achieving close to a mutual kill.
Besides, we don't need to win in the first phase. We want to win doing the most damage to them possible and taking the least reasonable damage ourselves. I'd much rather force them to cart their army over here and kill them on Avernus where we have extremely good defenses and some lovely wildlife than be forced to fight them in an offensive battle on their home turf anyway.
My thoughts are that their sorcerers are likely to be much more vulnerable on the ground. Besides, while taking them out is a fairly high priority, I view them as unlikely to be doing any meaningful damage to us in the next phase or three—better to target things that would otherwise be hurting us in the mean time.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Plan No Bombardment
-[X] Major- Make an extended stand at your orbital defense but retreat before suffering catastrophic losses. This will preserve some of your fleet and inflict major damage to the Abomination Fleet. This will also allow the Fólkvangr to fight to its strengths.
- [X] Above Dis: Bluff- Attempt to hold the voidspace above Dis until the Abomination Fleet makes play to take it. This is effectively a bluff to convince them to to take the voidspace above Dis.
- [X] Primary: Main Fleet - This will be the main attack force and therefore the easiest target- This is the default option if you want to do as much fleet damage as possible.
- [X] Secondary: Attacks of Opportunity - Target the parts of the fleet to achieve the best casualty ratios.
- [X] Make blatant of the information that Ridcully has gained form the enemies plans- Massive bonus and certain chance of them realising you have the plans.
Right, major fleet battle with all our defences is about one of the best times to use up the Plan advantage to it's fullest. By destroying a good portion of their main fleet, their ability to bombard our cities is reduced, and they'll have less ships to escort their Transports, for their 4 other convoy-ing.
-[X] Major- Make an extended stand at your orbital defense but retreat before suffering catastrophic losses. This will preserve some of your fleet and inflict major damage to the Abomination Fleet. This will also allow the Fólkvangr to fight to its strengths.
- [X] Above Dis: Bluff- Attempt to hold the voidspace above Dis until the Abomination Fleet makes play to take it. This is effectively a bluff to convince them to to take the voidspace above Dis.
- [X] Primary: Main Fleet - This will be the main attack force and therefore the easiest target- This is the default option if you want to do as much fleet damage as possible.
- [X] Secondary: Attacks of Opportunity - Target the parts of the fleet to achieve the best casualty ratios.
- [X] Make blatant of the information that Ridcully has gained form the enemies plans- Massive bonus and certain chance of them realising you have the plans.
Right, major fleet battle with all our defences is about one of the best times to use up the Plan advantage to it's fullest. By destroying a good portion of their main fleet, their ability to bombard our cities is reduced, and they'll have less ships to escort their Transports, for their 4 other convoy-ing.
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- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
You know, with the loss of their screening fighters, it is likely that both torpedoes and bombing runs will be super effective. Maybe even use void torps if we have them. I also don't think they have any minesweepers anymore besides using their escorts to hit the mines to allow the main forces though. Considering how thick the minefield is, well, have fun going through what amounts to an explosive asteroid thicket.
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ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
- Location
- Australia
The high-ranking sorcerers - the ones capable of summoning the Archangyl - will be in the void where all the ritual sacrifice will be taking place. Waiting for them to go on the ground is a bad idea because they will not go to the ground.
It is not about making sure they can't hurt us in the next phase or three, it is about making sure they can't summon a First Circle Archangyl if it looks like they're going to lose. What you're essentially saying is "Yes they'll summon a First Circle Archangyl after taking enough casualties, but that's ok because in letting them do that we'll take less casualties in the battles prior to its summoning." We need to absolutely lock them out from doing that and taking the high sorcerers out now while they're most vulnerable (because they won't go to the ground) is critical.
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