ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Leeettttssss keep our political discussions to the topic of dealing with aliens and shit. Reality's not really a good idea 'round these parts.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
That sounds like heresy.
I'm being serious. It sounds like the philosophy of Chaos.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Fair enough, though I imagine even the most mercantile of the Trust (I think... it's vanahiem? I mean Bertil owned 1% of the Vanir's yards before the Emps kicked the bucket and those are kind of important. You'd expect them to be government owned)
- Location
- Australia
Why are we so altruistic and nice when it comes to aliens? I get that xenophobia is bad and it leads to the Abomination, but that doesn't mean we can't enslave and exterminate them for purely pragmatic reasons to better our own species.
Some, like the Quartok, should be protected and incorporated into our system because they provide a useful service to Mankind (the Quartok make excellent soldiers, for example), but I don't see why that policy should apply to all non-hostile aliens by default.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
My reasons are waste of time we do have better things to do after all, no need (just because we could doesn't mean we are obligated to do it), to prevent backsliding and how does it better our species again?
I'd argue since it serves as good anti abomination practise we should not be doing it.
Besides I'd say living in hell with little to no ability to leave should be more than enslavy enough.
Why not? If they are non hostile then we loose nothing on the other hand killing them all costs resources and more importantly time that should be spent else where.
This is also 40K every race has a special gimmick that makes them useful in some way.
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Genetor Report: Sand Raptor
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Genetor Report: Sand Raptor
A seemingly mutated offshoot of the Raptor Species, more commonly found in Elysium, the Sand Raptor is approximately the same height as it's more "common" cousin, however this species tends to be below most people's notice for several reasons.
The first is their camouflage, which is as far as we understand it, completely natural. However, in the deserts of Aridia and Duat it is able to keep them hidden from many threats that they might encounter. The second is their main ability, a variation of the "phasing" ability that has been attributed to the Aridia Phase Shark and appears in the Phase Tanks that are used in the planetary PDF.
This allows them to remain a few feet under the surface of the sand, therefore moving almost undisturbed albeit slowly, and emerge rapidly when needed, which leads on to the final reason they are not well known. Like their cousins they are scavengers only instead of having a larger creature, the Tyrant Lizard, to fell their pray they need to wait and travel long distances, detecting when a creature like a Desert Shark or Titan Scorpion has fallen with their powerful olfactory senses.
When they have located a corpse, thousands of them will converge for miles around and devour the carcass, moving through the tough outer shells that the creatures of the desert regions of Avernus so often possess through use of acid glands that have replaced the las glands found in their Elysium brethren.
Through these mechanisms and the fact that most residents either commute between cities in mag trains or through flight these Raptors have gone almost unremarked, though do not let that fool you. While it is unlikely that they will provoke a fight if forced they will release a musk that will draw others to their aid, and their acid can be spat an incredible range. While it will not burn through sealed power armour quickly, numbers and time can do what pure deadliness will not.
*Due to the large number of Titan Scorpions and other creatures that have fallen recently the Genetorum has detected a significant boom in the population numbers of the Sand Raptors and has passed along a message to Archmagos Biologis Maximal warning of possible imbalance in Adriana ecosystem. Situation still under observation.
Probably sucks, but if anyone has any suggestions please I'm all ears under this bucket.
I'm also thinking of making a Hippo for the Duat, but currently I'm lacking in both name and power. Thunder Clap Hippopotamus sounds stupid.
A seemingly mutated offshoot of the Raptor Species, more commonly found in Elysium, the Sand Raptor is approximately the same height as it's more "common" cousin, however this species tends to be below most people's notice for several reasons.
The first is their camouflage, which is as far as we understand it, completely natural. However, in the deserts of Aridia and Duat it is able to keep them hidden from many threats that they might encounter. The second is their main ability, a variation of the "phasing" ability that has been attributed to the Aridia Phase Shark and appears in the Phase Tanks that are used in the planetary PDF.
This allows them to remain a few feet under the surface of the sand, therefore moving almost undisturbed albeit slowly, and emerge rapidly when needed, which leads on to the final reason they are not well known. Like their cousins they are scavengers only instead of having a larger creature, the Tyrant Lizard, to fell their pray they need to wait and travel long distances, detecting when a creature like a Desert Shark or Titan Scorpion has fallen with their powerful olfactory senses.
When they have located a corpse, thousands of them will converge for miles around and devour the carcass, moving through the tough outer shells that the creatures of the desert regions of Avernus so often possess through use of acid glands that have replaced the las glands found in their Elysium brethren.
Through these mechanisms and the fact that most residents either commute between cities in mag trains or through flight these Raptors have gone almost unremarked, though do not let that fool you. While it is unlikely that they will provoke a fight if forced they will release a musk that will draw others to their aid, and their acid can be spat an incredible range. While it will not burn through sealed power armour quickly, numbers and time can do what pure deadliness will not.
*Due to the large number of Titan Scorpions and other creatures that have fallen recently the Genetorum has detected a significant boom in the population numbers of the Sand Raptors and has passed along a message to Archmagos Biologis Maximal warning of possible imbalance in Adriana ecosystem. Situation still under observation.
Probably sucks, but if anyone has any suggestions please I'm all ears under this bucket.
I'm also thinking of making a Hippo for the Duat, but currently I'm lacking in both name and power. Thunder Clap Hippopotamus sounds stupid.
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ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Thunderstomp Hippo could work.
Nod to tabletop Fantasy, where Thunderstomp was a rule big shit had that meant it could damage things it moved nearby.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
- Location
- USA NYC
Having read the Sword of Truth that does expouse this philosophy. The whole nobody else is important is not exactly correct. From what I understand you should help people and make sure they can support themselves. It's the idea if everyone can work and support themselves then you don't need to spend so much resources on helping them. That's my limited take of it as a non-expert and it involves Ayn Rand really hating commnuism.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Not in thread, I'm fine chatting, but in PM's
.
Genator Report: Thunderstomp Hippopotamus.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Genator Report: Thunderstomp Hippopotamus.
An extremely dangerous creature native to the Duat River and Oasis that dot the rest of the region, the Thunderstomp Hippopotamus is thankfully docile preferring to spend their time in semiaquatic habitats feeding on plant life, primarily a combination of beer-grass, razor-weed and red ivy.
Physically these creatures can range between an estimated adult weight of around 1,500 kg (3,310 lb) and 1,300 kg (2,870 lb) for males and females respectively with some reported to be 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) and exceptional males weighing 2,660 kg (5,860 lb) and 3,200 kg (7,050 lb).*
From explorer and genetor interactions with them we can confirm certain traits about these creatures, first that most likely due to a combination of biomancy they can swim and trot much better than creatures of their rather small legs and barrel shaped physique would suggest. Second that they have a nasty bite, with one observed biting clean through the hide of a Rhinoceros Beetle that attempted to engage one, a feat that typically requires the deployment of heavy weapons. Thirdly their hide is extremely tough, whether this is due to a fatty layer, a unique formation of materials in the hide or a kinetic power standard impaler sniper rifles made little impact on them. Deployment of Neutron Las weapons were more effective leading to the suspicion that a power of some kind is involved.
What makes the hippos dangerous and cements their place near the top of an incredibly dangerous food chain despite their competition is their power, which acts as a constant release of force. When the creatures are not agitated the field is low enough to feel like a constant strong breeze, however when they are angered, or scared the field increases to the point it "feels like constantly being hit in the face with a power maul".**
Whatever the case it has been observed that the power does not impact nonliving things around the hippos, as the effect has been felt through power armour, but we do have confirmation that the effect grows stronger the closer you get to the creature, which will often be charging, forcing its target back until it traps them against the bank and crushing them.
Recommendation: Future Evaluation to be suspended until a proper way of examining the creatures through their field has been established.
*A Skull of a Hippopotamus has been proudly displayed Hunter Pellinore's trophy room, it is significantly larger than the average that has been observed in the wild.
** According to Sir Pellinore the creature who's skull he took killed three of his apprentices and destroyed his last original rib before he killed it.
And done.
Suggestions?
An extremely dangerous creature native to the Duat River and Oasis that dot the rest of the region, the Thunderstomp Hippopotamus is thankfully docile preferring to spend their time in semiaquatic habitats feeding on plant life, primarily a combination of beer-grass, razor-weed and red ivy.
Physically these creatures can range between an estimated adult weight of around 1,500 kg (3,310 lb) and 1,300 kg (2,870 lb) for males and females respectively with some reported to be 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) and exceptional males weighing 2,660 kg (5,860 lb) and 3,200 kg (7,050 lb).*
From explorer and genetor interactions with them we can confirm certain traits about these creatures, first that most likely due to a combination of biomancy they can swim and trot much better than creatures of their rather small legs and barrel shaped physique would suggest. Second that they have a nasty bite, with one observed biting clean through the hide of a Rhinoceros Beetle that attempted to engage one, a feat that typically requires the deployment of heavy weapons. Thirdly their hide is extremely tough, whether this is due to a fatty layer, a unique formation of materials in the hide or a kinetic power standard impaler sniper rifles made little impact on them. Deployment of Neutron Las weapons were more effective leading to the suspicion that a power of some kind is involved.
What makes the hippos dangerous and cements their place near the top of an incredibly dangerous food chain despite their competition is their power, which acts as a constant release of force. When the creatures are not agitated the field is low enough to feel like a constant strong breeze, however when they are angered, or scared the field increases to the point it "feels like constantly being hit in the face with a power maul".**
Whatever the case it has been observed that the power does not impact nonliving things around the hippos, as the effect has been felt through power armour, but we do have confirmation that the effect grows stronger the closer you get to the creature, which will often be charging, forcing its target back until it traps them against the bank and crushing them.
Recommendation: Future Evaluation to be suspended until a proper way of examining the creatures through their field has been established.
*A Skull of a Hippopotamus has been proudly displayed Hunter Pellinore's trophy room, it is significantly larger than the average that has been observed in the wild.
** According to Sir Pellinore the creature who's skull he took killed three of his apprentices and destroyed his last original rib before he killed it.
And done.
Suggestions?
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- Location
- Australia
In some situations it is more profitable to destroy an alien species rather than let it be. For example, let's say we find a world with large amounts of high grade promethium, but the planet is ruled by iron age pacifist xenos who would contribute nothing to humanity. It is more profitable to us to send in the Guard to exterminate or enslave the native population and colonise the planet than it is to just let them live in peace. It would be very easy to do and cost us a negligible amount more than it would to colonise an empty planet.
All things being equal, colonising empty planets should be priority but things like habitable/useful planet scarcity and warp route quality alter the equation often enough that exterminating an alien civilisation will be more profitable in the short and long term than finding and settling an empty planet.
Killing aliens for no reason other than to kill aliens is the path to the Abomination. Not killing aliens for no reason other than to not kill aliens is also the path to the Abomination. Blindly following a path leads to the Abomination regardless of what that path is.
The Tau don't. Their "gimmick" was being united and having peace for something like 5,000 years. Give the Imperium that much peace and they would've been unstoppable.
Genetor. With two 'e's and no 'a's.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
In your hypothetical world with Iron Age xenos it'd be much easier to do an uplift and make sure they are predisposed to serving us as well as getting promethium for us and even then it's not like an Iron Age species would be able to do anything to us unless they're like the trolls. Much cheaper to just make them do our work for us.
Again why? We made the protectorate system for a reason, if they're sitting on a prime warp route protectorate em. We defend the bit of space (we'd be doing it anyway if we kill em) they build on the planet so one less planet to administer we can use the route, trade and commerce flows and we get a cut. If it's promethium we provide the tools, education and protection and in exchange a portion of their income is tithed to the trust same as any trust world, saves us the bother of sending valuable colonists there, building the infrastructure ourselves ect.
I was also not saying don't kill aliens for no reason other than don't kill aliens I'm saying don't do it because it is a waste of time and does not give better short or long term benefits that I can see.
No the Tau have 5 gimmicks, one is good at hitting things, one is good at engineering/researching things, one is good at negotiating with things, one is good at flying things and one is good at uniting people, they've got more gimmicks than anyone species should really have. They've also got the gimmick of going from tech level 1 to tech level 14 in 5000 years.
As for the Imperium 5000 years of peace would have caused it to collapse on itself in a tidal wave of greed and corruption due to no outside threats keeping the barely working clap trap together.
5000 years of unity might have produced something, but that's only possible with emps, which means humanity would have won by default.
Thanks.
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- Location
- Australia
This is incorrect. There is nothing more I can say about this. I would be wasting my time if I tried.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Evidently, because your insistence on genocide because it is quicker and cheaper makes little sense to me.
Maybe who knows maybe I'm correct we'll never know.
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Nobody kills or doesn't kill aliens for no reason other than to do it or not, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. More realistically, people will kill aliens simply out of hatred of the xeno, and that's a path to the Abomination since xenophobia is one of the things in its wheelhouse. People not killing aliens that aren't a threat to them because they aren't xenophobes and don't think aliens deserve to die just because they're aliens is pretty much the opposite of a path to the Abomination.
As far as the hypothetical goes, just move in, build human cities, and let the xenos live in their xeno villages elsewhere. You don't really need to do anything with them as long as they don't bother your people.
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Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
... Why would we even want that? Most likely we would leave the primitive xenos alone, or passively study them.
HanEmpire
Delicious
I know, it's just that if we build cities on a primitive xeno world the aliens may turn to religion to explain the Human presence.
- Location
- Australia
Durin said that xenos worshipping humanity as a whole is fine, but that xenos worshipping individual humans - including the Emperor - is heresy.
EDIT: Here's the relevant quotes.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
Cool, thank you.
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
and them the orks said 'we help'
- Location
- United states
Uh, isn't being willing to kill peaceful or non-hostile aliens to take their their stuff but being unwilling to do it to humans pretty much xenophobia at play? Because it's pretty much saying that it's alright to do it to aliens but wrong to do it to humans.
The Diviner's Helper
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The Diviner's Helper
Ranked among the greatest diviners in the Imperial Trust was the Headmaster Munstrum Ridcully. Ranked also among the worst Adminstrators to exist was also the Ridcully. A day's work of filing work by him, personally, was estimated to be theoretically capable of getting a person executed thrice out of sheer incompetence.
It wasn't for lack of trying, though, to the abject horror of the other diviners in the Unseen University. Once, in a meeting with Rotbart, he'd attempted to learn something of how it worked - It was said that fully a third of Imperial Tarot readings showed many terrible premonitions that day. The Governor, reversed. The High Lord, reversed. The Darkened Astronomican. Many looming disasters, for none of them did consider Ridcully's own prognosis of the event, skilled so was Ridcully.
But to (nearly) every problem, there was assuredly a solution. Ridcully always delegated his work elsewhere - Not that he much choice - But the good Rotbart had thought him of an old Terran saying, of assigning the tasks to the person. Which.. was how administration was supposed to work, it seems? Not his specialty. Well, all he needed was someone who did specialize. Likely.. control was key and a good indicator, as was sanity.. so Epilson, or Zeta, maybe. Perhaps Minor. A Sanctionite, definitely. Hmm.
Or perhaps just find someone already suited to it. Groom someone? He had free time. For some definitions of 'Free Time'. One struggles to imagine what that word meant.
---
Name: Zeno Krenning
Born: City of Mirkwood
Age: 25
Gen: 9
Profession: Sanctionite, Adminstration
Efficient and talented, though of a family of negligible renown, Zeno fervently grade-skipped many years, managing still to graduate at top of his class and proceeding onward to be the youngest applicant to The University of Dis. Dream of being the youngest Master of the Adminstratum was unceremoniously cut short after surviving an attack by a Chaos Zeta (Telekinetic) - Witch-Finder present announced he was a psyker.
Zeno possesses an extremely able mind and a mastery of organizational techniques, as evidenced by the ease at which he absorbed warp theorems and complex techniques. Application and control took a significantly longer time, however, though expert scheduling allowed Zeno a significantly longer effective training time than possessed by most trainees. Noted by classmates as consistently looking exactly like a Scribe, when seen with the Witch-Sight.
Trained as Sanctionite subsequent to passing Trials. Mindset was particularly suited to Crafting, though was soon selected by Headmaster Ridcully as a personal assistant subseqent to casting a Divination.
---
Krenning had never quite expected that the fateful events of his day at The Remora's to have lead to this, in all honesty. He still remembered it vividly - Door crunching inward, his utensils rising up to kill him, the exploding laspen and then desperate dodging - All up to the point when the rogue stopped, impaler round rendering the face unrecognizable. Then being taken away from his old life, and seeing the Unseen University for the first time.
It was still a surprise and comforting, to return to paperwork after so long.
Ranked among the greatest diviners in the Imperial Trust was the Headmaster Munstrum Ridcully. Ranked also among the worst Adminstrators to exist was also the Ridcully. A day's work of filing work by him, personally, was estimated to be theoretically capable of getting a person executed thrice out of sheer incompetence.
It wasn't for lack of trying, though, to the abject horror of the other diviners in the Unseen University. Once, in a meeting with Rotbart, he'd attempted to learn something of how it worked - It was said that fully a third of Imperial Tarot readings showed many terrible premonitions that day. The Governor, reversed. The High Lord, reversed. The Darkened Astronomican. Many looming disasters, for none of them did consider Ridcully's own prognosis of the event, skilled so was Ridcully.
But to (nearly) every problem, there was assuredly a solution. Ridcully always delegated his work elsewhere - Not that he much choice - But the good Rotbart had thought him of an old Terran saying, of assigning the tasks to the person. Which.. was how administration was supposed to work, it seems? Not his specialty. Well, all he needed was someone who did specialize. Likely.. control was key and a good indicator, as was sanity.. so Epilson, or Zeta, maybe. Perhaps Minor. A Sanctionite, definitely. Hmm.
Or perhaps just find someone already suited to it. Groom someone? He had free time. For some definitions of 'Free Time'. One struggles to imagine what that word meant.
---
Name: Zeno Krenning
Born: City of Mirkwood
Age: 25
Gen: 9
Profession: Sanctionite, Adminstration
Efficient and talented, though of a family of negligible renown, Zeno fervently grade-skipped many years, managing still to graduate at top of his class and proceeding onward to be the youngest applicant to The University of Dis. Dream of being the youngest Master of the Adminstratum was unceremoniously cut short after surviving an attack by a Chaos Zeta (Telekinetic) - Witch-Finder present announced he was a psyker.
Zeno possesses an extremely able mind and a mastery of organizational techniques, as evidenced by the ease at which he absorbed warp theorems and complex techniques. Application and control took a significantly longer time, however, though expert scheduling allowed Zeno a significantly longer effective training time than possessed by most trainees. Noted by classmates as consistently looking exactly like a Scribe, when seen with the Witch-Sight.
Trained as Sanctionite subsequent to passing Trials. Mindset was particularly suited to Crafting, though was soon selected by Headmaster Ridcully as a personal assistant subseqent to casting a Divination.
---
Krenning had never quite expected that the fateful events of his day at The Remora's to have lead to this, in all honesty. He still remembered it vividly - Door crunching inward, his utensils rising up to kill him, the exploding laspen and then desperate dodging - All up to the point when the rogue stopped, impaler round rendering the face unrecognizable. Then being taken away from his old life, and seeing the Unseen University for the first time.
It was still a surprise and comforting, to return to paperwork after so long.
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