The Iron Sith V2 (SW/MCU AU)

Phase 16 Part 3
Disclaimer: I do not own any movies set up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe or Star Wars movies, cartoons, games, books, or comics. They belong to their respective copyright owners. This story is not created with a commercial aim. It is not for sale or rent.

Phase 16: No one likes the taste of a future war

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Part 3

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Wakandan airspace

A Royal Talon Fighter slowly flew over the border, shacking and wobbling all the way. Its engine made interesting noises that were more than enough to have its pilot, Ihna Amvake, mutter prayers and curses in equal measure. She still didn't know how her cloaking system held long enough for the Talon to get over the Indian Ocean and to relative safety. By that point, Ihna had other things to worry about – the engine was spluttering. The Talon's controls felt progressively heavier, making for a nerve-wracking journey home.

Such an outcome was something Ihna didn't foresee or fear until the very end.

Until then, the operation went almost flawlessly for Amvake's squadron. They consistently hit targets with light defenses, and any return fire fortunate enough to hit predictably failed to cause damage through the vibranium armor of the Dragon and her Talon. Only when they were in relative safety, flying over the Himalayas, Ihna de-cloaked to contact command and receive new orders if necessary. After all, while cloaked, the same principles that bent light and made radar signals slide around her fighter did the same with radio waves and laser communication.

It was above the mountains that Ihna learned about disastrous encounters with outsider forces all over the world. Her squadron was one of the few fortunate ones not to fly against heavy outsider defenses, then proceed to suffer damage or even lose fighters. That came as a shock, just like the orders to continue but keep striking targets as a whole squadron instead of dividing into pairs to cover more ground.

Ihna did as ordered, of course. That was one of the primary missions she had trained for. Defend Royal Talons Fighters flying around the Royal Family or Tribal Leaders. Protect Wakanda's airspace against outsider incursion. Cripple the outsiders' economy, industry, or, more likely, attempts to catch up to Wakanda by delivering warrior strike teams to do it in person or air strikers no one would know the source of.

With all the talk about aliens in the outside world the War Dogs reported on, this was a priceless opportunity, the briefing told them. Hours ago, Ihna believed it. The ease with which her squadron took out targets confirmed it. Then the news of losses, orders to continue anyway, and to use different tactics, shook her confidence. Still, the first attacks in China unfolded with little trouble. There were more defenders to worry about compared to India, but far from enough to stop them. Instead, they faced a target-rich environment.

That lasted until Amvake's squadron hit a regional capital and went for the fusion reactor under construction there.

The defenses they faced at that place were nothing like anything Ihna had seen before. When her squadron de-cloaked and opened fire, what felt like hundreds of missiles rose to meet them. Over a hundred fighters descended from the low clouds, and all Ihna could do was fight for her life and pray that she could cloak again.

The outsiders destroyed four Dragons above that city; they killed four of her friends – people she had trained and flown alongside for years! And all Ihna could do was run and pray as a missile after a missile struck her Talon.

It was pure luck that she managed to break contact. In the end, no less than a dozen enemy fighters were on her tail, and only their inability to maintain a targeting lock for long enough allowed Ihna to flee. She didn't know it, but if there were even a few more of China's modern fighters in the area, the odds of her ever seeing Wakanda again would have been far more remote.

A pair of Dragons raced to meet her Talon soon after it crossed the border. One of them hovered in front of Ihna's cockpit to confirm who was flying the damaged fighter. That was far from ordinary behavior, and soon she understood why. While the Dragons escorted her damaged Talon to the hangars near the Vibranium Mound, she could see smoke rising on the horizon.

"How many made it back?" Ihna asked her new wingmen.

"We lost nearly a quarter of the air force. A few more damaged fighters are attempting to get back. However, you might be the last that makes it," Came the terse response. "We should have struck years ago or not bothered," Her fellow pilot spat.

Impossible, Ihna's mind screamed at her.

"While we were away, the outsiders struck back, as you can see. They hit the Golden City and then the defensive rings."

The location of the smoke plumes registered, and now they made sense. There was nothing of critical importance in that area of the country, so it was chosen to host the cannons.

"Incoming raid! All available fighters scramble! Attack vectors will follow shortly!"

"Go get your Talon repaired before it falls out of the sky," The second Dragon pilot suggested in a tired voice, and Ihna's escorts broke off. Her navigation system lit up with beacons showing the direction of the incoming missiles. They were coming from three sides, and the strike was likely timed to hit simultaneously to make it harder to intercept.

As Ihna flew, struggling to control her sluggish Talon, she passed above the outer defensive network. IFF system shook hands, and the pilot gasped at the gaps in the neat ring. This shouldn't be happening! It shouldn't have happened in the first place! Ihna needed answers, and she was about to get them!

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The Golden City
Wakanda


In Wakanda, protests were a rare thing indeed. Something extraordinary had to happen for regular citizens to gather and demand something from their government as a whole. As a matter of fact, any smaller issues were to be presented to the leadership of your tribe and let them sort it out either by themselves or bring it up at the next meeting of the Tribal Council.

That didn't change after the news of a military coup against King T'Chaka and the Golden Tribe. The first reactions were confusion and mixed anger. If it wasn't for slowly but surely spreading persisting rumors that the King had been seriously contemplating selling out to the outside world for what few considered good reasons, things might have been different. Yet, those rumors made people doubt and wonder; they also ensured that the anger over the coup was divided between those who breached tradition in such an unprecedented way and T'Chaka for forcing their hands.

Things changed after outsider planes flew through the Golden City's holographic field and fought above its glimmering buildings. Explosions shook Wakanda's capital, burning fuel and fragments rained all over it. The mountainsides nesting the Golden City burned, struck by outsider weapons.

Unprecedented shock, fear, anger, and confusion spread through the capital's citizens. They did demand answers from their Tribal Leaders. At the same time, more and more people gathered in front of the Royal Palace, demanding answers.

Rows of Border Tribe warriors met them, forming a line of glowering shields and spears. These warriors weren't the colorful, familiar, and famous Dora Milaje in place to deal with the odd fool who might do something foolish.

Meanwhile, above them, the city's shield glowed blue, active, and ready to meet more incoming outsider weapons.

To everyone's surprise, M'Kathu, the leader of the Border Tribe, walked out of the palace, moved through the ranks of his warriors, and faced the crowds.

Mutters, demands, and curses greeted him.

"My countrymen, you have questions, and I will answer them! You are angry, and rightfully so! I was one of the people who broke tradition in a way that should be seen as insane under most circumstances. If given the option, my only regret is I didn't do it sooner!" M'Kathu's words echoed over the gathered crowds, taking many aback.

Confused and angry mutters answered him.

"Under King T'Chaka, we grew complacent! We let the outside world advance undisturbed, and now, we are paying the price for our hubris! For over a decade, we watched the outsiders turn towards their colonizer ways, trying and failing to find a cheap way forward in places like Afghanistan and Iraq! We knew, yet refused to acknowledge, that given the chance, the same would happen here, in our beloved Wakanda! Instead of doing his best to prevent such a future from ever coming to be, King T'Chaka did nothing until it was too late! Then, he decided to compound his weakness with betrayal!" M'Kathu raised a hand, and holograms across the city came alive, showing a recording of T'Chaka, trying to persuade the Mining Tribe's Leader that opening up might be Wakanda's best path forward.

"This treachery against all Wakanda is and stands for forced our hands!" M'Kathu declared. "Yet, I am afraid to inform you that we acted too late to safeguard Wakanda's future. The Outsiders have advanced enough to be credible threats, and our air force's punishing losses are proof of that. Now we are at war, and the colonizers will be coming to rape Wakanda to strip us of our technology, vibranium, and very identity! Will you allow that to happen to you and your children, citizens of Wakanda? Or will you fight and show the outside world that this is Wakanda? That we will not be bent, bowed, or broken to satisfy the colonizer's appetites?! What say you?!"

Ragged, angry cheers met M'Kathu's demands, though far from everyone was happy, much less cheering.
 
At this point even if they take the country they may not get the people, industry and expertise they were hoping for. If the people become radicals and refuse to help.

They need to capture a skrull and blame it on them, even if they were only riding the wave. Or they'll be dealing with generations of guerrillas.
 
At this point even if they take the country they may not get the people, industry and expertise they were hoping for. If the people become radicals and refuse to help.

They need to capture a skrull and blame it on them, even if they were only riding the wave. Or they'll be dealing with generations of guerrillas.
They have prince and princess to spread the truth, they could also let lose any low level captured/loyal Wakandans who see sense to spread the information back and maybe form a rebellion. Well, maybe not a rebellion but someone who can open the door when the time comes.
 
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They have prince and princess to spread the truth, they could also let lose any low level captured/loyal Wakandans who see sense to spread the information back and maybe form a rebellion. Well, maybe not a rebellion but someone who can open the door when the time comes.
If that was enought then they would have already surrendered. What's more likely is some will think he sold out the country for his thrown back. Some will think the pro war tribal leaders were right and it's his families fault why they couldn't win. Some will see their industry and materials being used as the colonizers doing the same to Wakanda that they are doing to every country in Africa. It's made worse if those leaders die instead of being captured because at that point they become martyrs.

Edit: I kind of want Tony to get the heart shaped herb. That thing is supposed to be a panacea. Just water it down so it doesn't make super soldiers and it can heal disease.
 
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At this point even if they take the country they may not get the people, industry and expertise they were hoping for. If the people become radicals and refuse to help.

They need to capture a skrull and blame it on them, even if they were only riding the wave. Or they'll be dealing with generations of guerrillas.
Then they die. At this point I don't care. They are detrimental to human survival and are a cancer to the species. Cut them out!
 
If that was enought then they would have already surrendered. What's more likely is some will think he sold out the country for his thrown back. Some will think the pro war tribal leaders were right and it's his families fault why they couldn't win. Some will see their industry and materials being used as the colonizers doing the same to Wakanda that they are doing to every country in Africa. It's made worse if those leaders die instead of being captured because at that point they become martyrs.

Edit: I kind of want Tony to get the heart shaped herb. That thing is supposed to be a panacea. Just water it down so it doesn't make super soldiers and it can heal disease.

Uh, yes? There won't be a clean resolution to Wakanda, though baring total insanity from either side, the place won't be comprehensively nuked or torn apart. It's going to be a mixed bag, with some people colaborating, in no small part because the coup killed their relatives, and we have members of the Gold Tribe as diplomats and other embassy personnel across the wolrd who will surrender due to T'Challa being free and asking them to.

The situation in Wakanda is going to be different, with things falling first on tribal lines, then on more personal ones. The Gold Tribe is quite hammered and discredited. The Border Tribe and the War Dogs are going to be progressively hammered, and potentially nearly destroyed at least their combatant if they decide to fight to the end and continue with resistance. The other three tribes will be jumping in a lot of directions as things unfold.

What could be gotten intact from Wakanda with both know how, scientists and engineers willing to cooparate, will be far cry from the boon a cooperative Wakanda could have been. On the other hand, this war is going to have some useful benefits as far as the militaries across the world are concerned, serving as a punch in the gut and a wake-up call. The same is true for politicians, and the population at large. So its going to be a mixed bag all things considered.
 
So this war is like a slap in the face of a lot of undecided people, like if we can't even create a unite rapid force against an attack on earth them what the aliens will do to us when they invade our planet, like in this situation at least the enemie don't have too much wartime experience, but an space empire that is proactive on expanding its borders sure as hell should have experience and already pre-planned invasion on planets with inteligent life on it, i can already see the foruns going wild on how fucked Earth is
 
If that was enought then they would have already surrendered. What's more likely is some will think he sold out the country for his thrown back. Some will think the pro war tribal leaders were right and it's his families fault why they couldn't win. Some will see their industry and materials being used as the colonizers doing the same to Wakanda that they are doing to every country in Africa. It's made worse if those leaders die instead of being captured because at that point they become martyrs.

Edit: I kind of want Tony to get the heart shaped herb. That thing is supposed to be a panacea. Just water it down so it doesn't make super soldiers and it can heal disease.
I didn't say it's gonna be pretty but some people will see what really happened once the prince actually has the chance to explain.
Yes, it's going to be tainted by them being "colonized" but that's their punishment for attacking unprovoked. There will be grudges against killed relatives, but sane people will realize the world wouldn't just lay down and take a beating(unlike that idiot pilot who cursed how dare the Chinese kill four of her invading friends she spent years training with!).
 
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...even in an advanced kingdom almost completely separated from the rest of humanity; they still whinge on about colonialism as if it were the greatest of evils that justifies absolutely anything.
 
Only thing I'm wondering about is honestly the mining tribe.
"Fellow citizens of Wakanda, I speak to you today, bringing grave news. King T'Chaka and the Golden Tribe betrayed us all! Last night, the King and the leader of the Mining Tribe met in secret, discussing how to best sell our precious vibranium and technology to the colonizers that even now ravage the rest of Africa!"
The "official story" means they basically are in very hot water, yes? Probably somewhat purged even? That... doesn't sound like a good thing for a nation at war.
 
Wakanda is such a fail. The idea is good but also basically the next step from token black character/hero, which backfired hard.
Comic/movie writers: "Hey, why don't we make a great advanced african nation to represent the black people, but also make it hateable."

I think that the problem is that comics Wakanda is both too different and not different enough.
Wakanda was created based on what white Americans thought what Black Nationalist Americans thought Africa was like, in the 70s. Both of these visions were, of course, extremely inaccurate.

Due to a mix of well-intentioned racism and blaxplotation, this means that Wakanda came out as a jumbled mess of different African cultures and stereotypes. It's stereotypically 'tribal', yet the implications of this aren't really discussed, it's advanced, and yet people live in a 'primitive' manner, it's extremely isolationist, and yet its social values are Western, etc.

If Wakanda was more 'similar' to the west, then it could be used as a foil to western society. You don't even have to sacrifice the country's 'Africanness' to do this; it's not like modern African states can't retain their own customs. Somaliland, for example, has a tribal council that serves as the parliament's upper house.

If Wakanda was more 'different', then it could serve as a lesson that different societies are just as valid and important as our own. There's so many different philosophies and ways of life in the world for authors to get inspired from. Different views on gender, government, religion...

But most importantly, Wakanda should be less perfect. Wakanda has often been portrayed as this Mary-Sueish nation of perfect elves who happen to look African: obviously, Wakanda must be a perfect society because readers don't understand nuance. This is Wakanda's biggest problem. If its flaws were explored, like its isolationism, its reliance on vibranium, or the issues that plague collectivist tribal societies, then it would fell much more real, and thus the message that Africans are just as 'civilised' as everyone else would feel much more genuine. Civilisations, after all, are never perfect.
 
If Wakanda was more 'different', then it could serve as a lesson that different societies are just as valid and important as our own. There's so many different philosophies and ways of life in the world for authors to get inspired from. Different views on gender, government, religion...
Unfortunately we are godawful at designing anything truly alien without the result being 90% handwavium. Most authors and other scripters of media just aren't up for the intensive, iterative worldbuilding that is necessary and so either default to what they know: A reskinned version of how our own world works or, at best, something modeled off of some well documented culture in human history that you can hand airplanes and rayguns to. Even then the audience will generally be unable to stomach anything more than a couple steps away from what they know and are comfortable with, either unable to care about it at all or else ascribing outright monstrosity to it.

Realistically, we don't know how much of modern society has to be this way and how much turned out this way by happenstance. Somebody did something in proto-indo-european times, or any shared formative period afterward, and it just kind of caught on and became self propagating but was no more inevitable than a dozen other systems. Heaven knows there were a fair few examples of civilizations doing things at right angles to what we know and they might have been overshadowed only because the civilizations they were tied to didn't luck into conditions that allowed for broader development before somebody came knocking at their door.

But trying to figure out an alternative properly starts with pretending you are JRR Tolkien and continues on down that rabbit hole about ten times as deep. I'd adore it if someone did go to those lengths but its the sort of hyperfocused bloodymindedness that will probably require an AI to pull off.
 
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To be fair not like comic USA or Russia or China is any better, being run by literal villains and aliens along with the usual big bad corrupt government, but they do no represent caucasians or asians coz there's many technologically advanced countries.
On the other Africa be like, well yes Wakanda sucks but we have...nothing(I think).
 
Phase 16 Part 4
Disclaimer: I do not own any movies set up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe or Star Wars movies, cartoons, games, books, or comics. They belong to their respective copyright owners. This story is not created with a commercial aim. It is not for sale or rent.

Phase 16: No one likes the taste of a future war

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Part 4

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An overwhelming majority of Wakandan diplomatic personnel worldwide surrendered to local security forces after the address by exiled Prince T'Challa. Unfortunately, there are isolated instances where Wakandan diplomats and support personnel failed to heed the calls for surrender, which led host countries to declare themselves compromised by alien interests, remove their diplomatic protection, and storm Embassies and Consulates.

We have government statements confirming that happened across China, at the Wakandan Consulates in New York, the United States, Bombay, India, Saudi Arabia…


BBC World News


US Defense Contractors announced they would rapidly expand weapon production lines and are looking to hire experienced personnel.


USA Today

Experts warn we are to expect shortages and spike hikes as far as civilian electronics of all types are concerned due to the war. The extensive damage caused by the Wakandan attacks and the sheer hunger of Military-Industrial Complexes worldwide for rare earth materials will guarantee such a shift, which will continue for at least a year after the conflict concludes.

Euronews


Shots and explosions were reported within the capitals of Kenya and Tanzania! With both countries neighboring Wakanda, this is a possible Wakandan invasion or coup attempt to prevent using those countries as staging grounds against the rogue African nation.

Associated Press

Cruise missile stocks might run dangerously low before ramped-up production, and new production lines coming online could make up for ongoing use, experts claim.


Washington Post

US Air Force flying from bases in the Middle East and NATO Air Forces, operation from Southern Europe launched missile barrages against Wakanda, violating the air spaces of multiple African countries. Protests so far have fallen on deaf ears.

BBC News


EU and NATO officials will meet with ambassadors and foreign ministers from multiple African countries in Brussels. The topic is obvious – the ongoing war against Wakanda.

Due to Wakanda's nature as a landlocked country in Central Africa, the only way to strike back at it is by flying through the airspace and putting boots on the ground of neighboring states. Despite what international laws might claim, citing neutrality and trying to stay out of the conflict might not be an option for Wakanda's neighbors.


CNN

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SHIELD facility X, a former Canadian military research site
Northern Canada


Wakanda's near indiscriminate attacks on universities and research centers worldwide had a curious reaction upon many academics and researchers who otherwise might have been against war. A direct consequence was the ease with which SHIELD, SWORD, and their patron governments managed to gather many of Earth's brightest minds in the middle of nowhere, deep within the Canadian north.

I knew many of the people by reputation, if not personally, and I have met most during science symposiums I attended back in the day when I wasn't too drunk to operate otherwise.

SHIELD Agents were doing their best to corral the grumpy scientists and engineers to their rooms and familiarize them with the facility and laboratories so that everyone would know their way around. More importantly, we could order any equipment we might need but wasn't present at all or in sufficient quantities.

We had a practically unlimited budget and access to everything Earth's most developed countries save for Wakanda had to crack Wakandan stealth, ideally yesterday. I wasn't sure about the details of the horse-trading involved. However, we were about to get one count of Wakandan exiled Princess with a decent understanding of their tech, flying in a fully operational heavy fighter for us to examine.

Victor von Doom and Susan Storm stood beside me, watching the unfolding chaos with barely disguised disgust and tired acceptance. Those two were here due to their experience in aerospace engineering, which might come in handy, and to learn lessons from the Talon fighter that we might use for the next step of the uplift. Victor and his corporation were on board with the plan, and as a bonus, we got Dr. Storm through her association with von Doom.

"How are you handling this?!" Victor grumbled and waved a hand at the chaotic crowd. "I feel like shocking them to get them in line!"

"Experience."

"You two are behaving like spoiled children," Susan groaned.

"Don't tell me you feel differently!" Victor grumbled.

"Irritated? Oh, I am," Storm gave us a pointed look, and we briefly got a glimpse of her emotions. "Ready to commit senseless violence? Hell, no!"

"Some days, I don't know what I will do without you…" von Doom sighed in fond exasperation. "Of course, when you are ready to commit violence, it's never senseless, dear!"

"Clear the landing area! We have incoming traffic!" A loudspeaker crackled to life. SHIELD agents raced to do so, bringing the last scientists and engineers away just in time. A black aircraft landed vertically on a large cargo elevator meant to get supplies and heavy equipment deep within the facility.

So this was the Talon when intact. It was a beautiful bird, and I couldn't wait to get my hands on it.

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I listened to the general explanation of how Wakanda's shields and cloak worked while standing in front of monitors showing the feeds of every sensor type you could think of. They all showed the location of a landed, invisible Royal Talon. Radar was a no-go. Experimental lidar – in theory, it could detect the distortion produced by the cloak bending light around the craft and the holographic field, yet in practice, said distortion was so slight that in the atmosphere, it was so far beyond the error margin that the system had to dismiss displaying it automatically wasn't funny. Using it against this would show false positives all over the place if we sufficiently lowered the sensitivity settings. The thing was quiet enough that acoustics were impractical. By the time sensitive microphones could detect its presence, especially when it had flown at subsonic speeds, it would already be above your head, shooting. Pinpointing a targeting solution that way was a nightmare. It would also be pointless if or when Wakanda deployed missiles and bombs.

The sheer processing power needed to use acoustics, and the infrastructure attached, would require an AI and years of development for a marginal payoff at best. It might be a nice thing to have if we found no other way to get the job done in a defensive posture, but highly impractical for the time being.

Thermal was useless when the thing flew at subsonic, and that was complete and utter bullshit. I knew it was because of the combo of a cloaking and shielding system, but still, we should have been able to see something when the thing moved, even if it wasn't the vessel itself!

This left us with indirect ways to detect the thing. The best viable idea was using very sensitive weather radars to try and track the cloaked fighters in real-time through the distortions in air currents and such their passage should cause. That might work as a way to get early warning, track the things, and perhaps even target them with weapons that didn't need direct kills to bring down fighters… That was a prominent issue when facing Wakandan craft – those things were, in some respects, tougher than tanks. Unless we used tactical nuclear weapons like firecrackers, proximity kills would be near impossible.

After the preliminary examination ended, our consensus was that Wakanda was 'bullshit of the highest order' and that we might be able to theoretically crack the shield and cloak before we got a viable way to detect and target cloaked vessels with weapons requiring a direct hit.

That meant we might have to figure out a brand-new type of detection system.

One thing was sure, by seeing what this thing was capable of for me, I was more determined than ever to recommend we take Wakanda's scientists, engineers, and production lines intact. Parts of what they had weren't just decades ahead of us. They were likely ahead by centuries in specific fields to make what this thing was capable of a reality. Was vibranium that much of a game-changer, or did Wakanda indeed have alien patrons?!
 
hmmm a good way for a skrull to get highly placed in Wakandas society would be to 'find' a scientist who was working on tech that in reality is just alien technology maybe dumbed down and slightly Terranized so that they can rise in ranks quickly
 
They were likely ahead by centuries in specific fields to make what this thing was capable of a reality. Was vibranium that much of a game-changer, or did Wakanda indeed have alien patrons?!
hmmm a good way for a skrull to get highly placed in Wakandas society would be to 'find' a scientist who was working on tech that in reality is just alien technology maybe dumbed down and slightly Terranized so that they can rise in ranks quickly
...you know... Let's say there is a group of shapeshifters looking to live the easy life somewhere. This might very well be the end result. Meaning there might actually be a handful of civilian Scrull who thought they had finally found somewhere to retire after their transport "blew up" near the front somewhere... but then this group of pirates took the place over and broke their retirement for fun and profit.

Just a possibility, of course. But one that makes sense to me.
 
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...you know... Let's say there is a group of shapeshifters looking to live the easy life somewhere. This might very well be the end result. Meaning there might actually be a handful of civilian Scrull who thought they had finally found somewhere to retire after their transport "blew up" near the front somewhere... but then this group of pirates took the place over and broke their retirement for fun and profit.

Just a possibility, of course. But one that makes sense to me.
Now I'm just picturing a Skrull and his buddy faking their deaths fleeing to earth and essentially living out a historical SI introducing technology that is mundane or even ancient to them and making a fortune only for a Wakandan strike team to kick in their luxury flat or mansion door to kil the engineer/ scientist duo who are introducing to much cutting edge tech lol

Honestly the ideas to funny for me not to want to write a Omake about it might start working on one after finals
 
If you are able to create a sensor that can detect a cloaked vessel but with so many false positives as to be functionally useless... what if you had twenty of these in different parts of an area of engagement? Each fact checking the others. If one produces a positive result then all the others check to see if they see the same thing, each from a different angle. The chance that even two of them would show a false positive in the same place and time would be fairly rare, from twenty it would be in billion to one territory.

And it might be small for ambient light but what if you fact check a positive result with a low power laser? A small deviation that would be unnoticeable in ambient might be a clear yes-or-no if tagged directly.
 
And it might be small for ambient light but what if you fact check a positive result with a low power laser? A small deviation that would be unnoticeable in ambient might be a clear yes-or-no if tagged directly.
This sounds like a really good idea. A computer program that only shows positives if detected from at least two sensors? Trivial. A setup that then hits the positive with a rangefinder laser OR low-power but not entirely safe IR laser to confirm? A bit more work, but not that much work.

So you would have "clear skies", "unconfirmed but detected from multiple sources" and "confirmed & locked on".

How would a laser hitting a cloaked target make it obvious? Well, you already have multiple sensor arrays in the area to avoid false positives, so there are two things: If it has a shield? Well, you just hit it with a lowpower laser. It should flare a bit. If not? You have heating of the air in a line from the laser to the cloaked fighter... and then absolutely no heating of the air behind it.

Obviously, the moment you lock on, you should not keep the lock with only one laser. That would be stupid.

You could possibly do the same with a strong enough naval radar or something, because the radar itself is an attack that can cook someone, so it might get the shield to flare. If not, see how it needs to be modulated to make the shield flare.
 
This sounds like a really good idea. A computer program that only shows positives if detected from at least two sensors? Trivial. A setup that then hits the positive with a rangefinder laser OR low-power but not entirely safe IR laser to confirm? A bit more work, but not that much work.

So you would have "clear skies", "unconfirmed but detected from multiple sources" and "confirmed & locked on".

How would a laser hitting a cloaked target make it obvious? Well, you already have multiple sensor arrays in the area to avoid false positives, so there are two things: If it has a shield? Well, you just hit it with a lowpower laser. It should flare a bit. If not? You have heating of the air in a line from the laser to the cloaked fighter... and then absolutely no heating of the air behind it.

Obviously, the moment you lock on, you should not keep the lock with only one laser. That would be stupid.

You could possibly do the same with a strong enough naval radar or something, because the radar itself is an attack that can cook someone, so it might get the shield to flare. If not, see how it needs to be modulated to make the shield flare.

There's no shield to make flare. The shield principles are used to absorb heat from the aircraft. The cloak itself, bends radiation, light, etc, around it to avoid detection, with the holographic component ensuring the thing is actually invisible to cameras and MK 1 eyeballs.

You're hugely underestimating the amount of false positives there would be if the sensitivity of the currently available lidar systems is lowered enough - we're talking anything but clear air giving up false flags - vapor, higher concentration of gases, regular polution, etc.... which can cause minimal delays and distortions. Those would be flagged as false errors, so while there's something interferring with the Lidar beam, its not something you need to worry about. Under almost most circumstances, if you lower the sensitivity of a lidar software enough, anythign but crystal clear air so to speak, will be giving false positives for the purpose of detecting a cloaked fighter. The reflected light that gets back to the Lidar after being warped by the cloaking system is in such a range, that while its technically useful, practically, on most places on Earth, its not.

Now, low powered combat laser, if it hits a cloaked ship, might do the trick. Needless to say, unless you're constantly firing lasers above your bases and hope to hit something, that's a no go.

This sounds like a really good idea. A computer program that only shows positives if detected from at least two sensors? Trivial. A setup that then hits the positive with a rangefinder laser OR low-power but not entirely safe IR laser to confirm? A bit more work, but not that much work.

So you would have "clear skies", "unconfirmed but detected from multiple sources" and "confirmed & locked on".

How would a laser hitting a cloaked target make it obvious? Well, you already have multiple sensor arrays in the area to avoid false positives, so there are two things: If it has a shield? Well, you just hit it with a lowpower laser. It should flare a bit. If not? You have heating of the air in a line from the laser to the cloaked fighter... and then absolutely no heating of the air behind it.

Obviously, the moment you lock on, you should not keep the lock with only one laser. That would be stupid.

You could possibly do the same with a strong enough naval radar or something, because the radar itself is an attack that can cook someone, so it might get the shield to flare. If not, see how it needs to be modulated to make the shield flare.

Between the movement of the cloaked ship, and the amount of false positives the lidar will be throwing if its software sensitivity is low enough to actually sense the difference the cloak makes, makes this impractical. Now, a different kind of sensor, which gives a more reasonable amount of false positives, ideally in a more predictable fashion, would be useful through data fusion. Figuring out if there's such a sensor type, and if not, creating one, is one of the primary objectives of the gathered scientists. The obvious secondary one is to crack the Talons other systems, as they work on better understanding the cloak and everything related to it.

The problem for lidar with the cloak is that it doesn't absorb the laser but curves it around the ship. If the software is sensitive enough to reliably detect that, it is sensitive enough to reliably throw false positives when passing through anything but crystal clear air. The cloak is that damn good, and there are good reasosns why those examining the system and learning how it operates wonder if Wakanda actually had alien aid in developing it. Compared to everything else the Talon has, the cloaking system is decades ahead, if not centuries in a few fields.
 
'Couldn't you just engineer the LiDAR to have a combat laser connected so any and all "false" positives get a laser shot?

In most places you want to defend, a LIDAR would be giving hundreds if not thousands false positives constantly. That's how much you need to reduce the sensitivity of removing reasonable false positives from display to have a prayer of detecting a cloaked ship. Those examining the Royal Talon are calling bullshit for very good reasons. That tech is at least as far ahead of everything else Wakanda has, as Wakanda's average tech advantage over the rest of the world.

If the cloak just protected against MK 1 eyeballs and regular cameras, with other systems protecting against radar, hid the thermal signature of the ship, etc... it would be different. And while there are such systems, which ensure that Wakandan Dragons and Talons are damn stealthy even without cloak, the cloack does it all, much, much better.

That system and the shields, are the greatest paradigm shifts Wakanda brings.
 
In most places you want to defend, a LIDAR would be giving hundreds if not thousands false positives constantly. That's how much you need to reduce the sensitivity of removing reasonable false positives from display to have a prayer of detecting a cloaked ship. Those examining the Royal Talon are calling bullshit for very good reasons. That tech is at least as far ahead of everything else Wakanda has, as Wakanda's average tech advantage over the rest of the world.

If the cloak just protected against MK 1 eyeballs and regular cameras, with other systems protecting against radar, hid the thermal signature of the ship, etc... it would be different. And while there are such systems, which ensure that Wakandan Dragons and Talons are damn stealthy even without cloak, the cloack does it all, much, much better.

That system and the shields, are the greatest paradigm shifts Wakanda brings.

How much of wakanda's tech is reliant on vibranium?
 
Sooo.... are I hearing correct that the cloak a) bends the light around the fighters, but also b) SPEEDS UP the light while it's curving around the fighter, so that lidar does not detect any range difference? If aimed at something behind the fighter as it speeds past cloaked?
 
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