Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
No speed up. At light speed curving around a small aircraft or even a bigass spaceship doesn't matter.
They can't exactly put reflectors in the air to bounce the light and then measure it...
The Iron Sith V2 (SW/MCU AU)
- Thread starter Illuviar
- Start date
- Crossover
They can't exactly put reflectors in the air to bounce the light and then measure it...
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
High flying air baloons. All you need. The moment they get shot down you know you have a combat situation - or at least, hostiles in the area- which is, by itself, useful.
Small drones could probably do the same job, but much more hassle with take-offs and landings all the time.
Last edited:
Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
Don't think you realize how many balloons and lasers would be needed. We're talking about Gundam Russia spending most of its budget on filling the space with probes to find the Gundam carrier.
Even then, there are air distortions causing thousands of false positives.
GeekGod_of_Speed
He Who Enjoys The Big Words
Is it just lazy design philosophy? Or is all their tech just better with it?
Both. The use of vibranium gives you resilience and longlivety that we are seldom familiar with no matter what we're talking about - from consumer electonics, to everything else that can feasibly incorporate vibranium. This of coures means a radically different economoy - there's seldom something new and much better on the market you will have an incentive to buy. Hell, save for clothing and food, most things in your home are likely to outlast you.
Phase 16 Part 5
Disclaimer: I do not own any movies set up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe or Star Wars movies, cartoons, games, books, or comics. They belong to their respective copyright owners. This story is not created with a commercial aim. It is not for sale or rent.
Spanish Intelligence uncovers Wakandan plot to arm insurgent groups in Africa!
Euronews
Two attacks against Moroccan police stations and a border post claim over thirty casualties! Rebels aligned with the controversial state of West Sahara claim responsibility!
Moroccan sources confirm the use of advanced energy weapons, likely sourced from Wakanda.
Associated Press
The Kingdom of Morocco formally requests NATO support in dealing with Wakanda-supplied insurgents!
Euronews
Elements of the Spanish and Italian navy launched cruise missiles at targets in West Sahara, targeting known and suspected camps and ammo dumps of the Polisario Front, the name of the West Sahara/Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, used by the countries which do not recognize it. This could be an implicit statement by NATO supporting Morocco's claim of the area.
AFP
Elements of the French Foreign Legion, Spanish, and Italian Marines are deploying to Morocco to aid the Royal Moroccan Military in neutralizing the Polisario front permanently and to secure the advanced weapons delivered to it by Wakanda.
Euronews
Politicians in the United States voice their approval at the European members of NATO finally pulling their own weight, stirring controversy.
CNN
The first, comprehensive reports on the Wakanda Air Campaign begin to emerge. Within Europe alone, we have confirmed nearly a thousand military casualties, both wounded and dead, with a minimum of twenty-three thousand wounded civilians across dozens of cities across the continent. Fortunately, the civilian death toll has been low, with three hundred and twelve confirmed dead.
NATO material losses remain classified. However, pictures and video evidence points to at least a couple of hundred vehicles and systems of all kinds being destroyed or critically damaged. We have confirmed that multiple NATO fighters and helicopters of various types have been lost.
BBC World News
Military and government sources concur that Wakanda might have lost as much as a quarter of its air force during its attacks. Depending on manufacturing capacity and reserve, that might be a crippling blow, significantly limiting future offensive operations that Wakanda's Air Force could afford to launch.
CNN
Eleven thousand civilian casualties are reported throughout the United States. Experts believe that we suffered fewer overall casualties than Europe due to relatively lower population density in the vicinity of targets struck by Wakanda and heavily contested by the US military. Two hundred and eleven are confirmed dead, with hundreds more remaining in critical condition nationwide.
CNN
After firm casualty figures of the Wakandan unprovoked attacks began to emerge, an atmosphere of anger gripped the United States and Europe. We are hearing more and more calls for extreme measures to ensure Wakanda would be unable to attack anyone ever again.
CBS
The United States military released a set of parameters required for new air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles. The critical point of the new weapons program is the warhead and targeting capabilities. The warhead is necessary to defeat armored targets. At the same time, the targeting needs to be more than sufficient for the missiles to track and directly impact hard-to-detect targets. That is a significant departure from the decades-long trend for most anti-air missiles to be proximity-kill weapons, using high explosives, fragmentation, or similar warheads to neutralize targets they cannot hit directly. The requirements cite the need to defeat heavily armored aircraft, regardless of whether they are Wakandan or alien.
US Air Force Magazine
Taliban and Ten Rings militants launch counter-offensives, using the disruptions caused by Wakanda's attack to good effect.
ANA and Coalition forces' advances in Herat and Jalalabad have ceased. Taliban and Ten Rings localized counter-attacks managed to retake portions of the contested cities.
CNN
The Pentagon
Washington DC
Generals from all US military branches met in a bunker below the Pentagon. In contrast, many others were present over video conference calls carried by hardlines.
"By now, you all should be familiar with what hard data we have, our estimates of the enemy's capabilities, and what we gathered from debriefing Wakanda's exiled royalty crosschecked with information gained by surrendered diplomatic personnel," Admiral Frederick, Tillman, the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, opened the meeting. "We are gathered today to discuss strategic options for dealing with Wakanda for good and begin developing them for presentation in front of the President for final approval. General Vance?"
"At this point, using air power to break Wakanda's capability to fight a modern war comprehensively is going to be unlikely. Their combination of stealth technologies and shields makes air strikes less effective than desired. A sustained long-term campaign has merit and is something I propose we continue and expand. However, until we find all Wakandan cities and facilities covered by holographic camouflage and can overwhelm their shields, the practical utility of the air strikes is limited. In practice, we are looking at strategic defense by tying down a significant part of the enemy's surviving air force, combined with eliminating defensive installations that aren't shielded, like the ring of energy cannons identified first by the French. In theory, a prolonged and sustained campaign of air strikes can overwhelm Wakanda's shields by sheer attrition on their systems and power sources. However, we do not know if going that route will be feasible in a reasonable amount of time. I regret to report that, at this point, using conventional means, we can't guarantee victory. There are too many unknown factors about Wakanda's capabilities. "
"That was sadly within my expectations," Admiral Tillman noted. "The same is true for the Navy's Carrier Battle Groups, with the added complication that getting them within strike range of Wakanda risk losing ships and thousands of crew due to the inability to stop Wakanda counter-strikes effectively. War games based on what happened to the French Charles de Gaule point at us simply not having the right tools for the task at hand. Even then, if the enemy smartens up and uses their new technologies smarter, it won't matter until we can effectively track and target their aircraft. That has implications for our primary strategic goals. You've read Stark's memorandum backed by all scientists and engineers working on the Royal Talon they're examining, right?"
"We need that technology even if it means walking through a river of our blood," Commandant Steven Hacket, the commander of the US Marine Corps, grimaced. "We will do it if we absolutely have to. However, Wakanda isn't our only strategic threat. Breaking a branch of the military to take it won't be advisable in the short to medium term. Does someone disagree on that point?"
It all went back to Wakanda's stealth fighters. As few as they were, and they were still more than most countries on the planet could muster as an air force, they were damn tough. During the first day, it became clear that the enemy could adapt, and it wouldn't take much to ensure they could cripple the logistics efforts of an invasion force. That was the issue. It didn't help that elements of the Kenyan and Tanzanian military and government managed to survive the coups and called for international support against Wakanda and the traitors who backed the coup. Under different circumstances, this would have meant the US Marines and the Army had the welcoming mat ready to receive them with friendly harbors available for uncontested landing and to act as logistics hubs.
In the present strategic situation, providing them with practical aid was easier said than done.
Ascribing reasonable competence to the enemy, any such attempt while their air force could operate with near impunity would mean thousands, if not tens of thousands, would commit expensive suicide. The rest would be stranded in Eastern Africa without logistics. The US air force was reasonably sure they could do that, tho the US Navy, even with heavy Air Cover from all air bases in reach, just used the known surviving Wakanda aircraft and their capabilities displayed to date.
One of the reasons for this meeting happening this late after the initial attacks was to give time for simulating an attempted landing and logistics efforts from Mombasa and Dar es Salaam. After the first war game ended as a disaster for the US military and their allies, two more took place, with the defenders learning lessons from their defeat.
The other two war games ended up looking a bit better until NATO ran out of cruise missiles due to the constant heavy barrages they threw at Wakanda to pin down as much of its air force as possible. That meant that if Wakanda went for a defensive posture instead of focusing on first crippling the invasion buildup, the US military and allies could get a few hundred kilometers from the ports before their logistics got cut to pieces. Then the people playing Wakanda released their air force to go for the ships and planes vital for supplying them.
What killed the idea of a cheap invasion was that a Wakandan aircraft could fly invisible until it was above a carrier, for example, then open its rear ramp and just push enough explosives on the deck to mission kill it.
Everyone relevant knew that for a fact after Wakanda deployed commandos on top of the building where Tony Stark was bunkering, while their aircraft hovering above it remained cloaked until they finished deploying ground forces and joined the battle.
The best scenario would be Wakanda losing an aircraft for every such stunt, something they could afford. It would be a bargain to cripple the US Navy's strike capabilities. The infuriating reality of the situation was that even more conventional attacks on naval assets could end up with painfully one-sided Wakandan victories. When the bastards crippled Charles de Gaule, the French carrier had only a few Rafales left to protect it. However, it had whole squadrons of the US Air Force from bases in the Persian Gulf covering it for all the good it did. They could not target the enemy effectively, and the combat environment was far different from the ones that produced the heavies Wakandan casualties to date.
If the conflict remained conventional, and there was no counter to Wakanda's stealth, the rest of the world would need years of buildup for the kind of logistics and expeditionary forces that could absorb punishing losses yet push through to Wakanda and take place.
That was a worst-case scenario, and they would plan for it but shelve the idea. The odds were the conflict would escalate into nuclear before anyone sane contemplated that kind of bloodbath.
"Wakanda's action in Kenya and Tanzania do give us an opening for an indirect approach," General Scudder offered. "They won't miss the buildup for a proper invasion or an attempt to insert special forces in Wakanda. We all know their detection and response capabilities dramatically increased after the French hit them."
The best theory was that the French raid caught Wakanda while still confused after the coup. After all, once the enemy reacted, everyone watched the cream of the French Navy Air Wing get wiped out in short order. The reaction to follow-up cruise missile strikes kept improving, if not so dramatically, as it did over the first couple of days.
"We might be able to insert special forces and equipment to aid the loyalists in Kenya and Tanzania. They can also aid by giving us targets for cruise missile strikes and give us hands-on experience fighting Wakanda's ground forces. We need to know more about the enemy's capabilities to plan an invasion better when we have an answer for their air force."
"Speaking about an indirect approach," General Vance interjected, "we have a few ideas. Nothing likely to be a war winner; however, every little bit helps. We suggest dropping leaflets all over Wakanda and using drones to establish a way for our exiled Royals to speak with their people and do their best to convince as many of them as possible that we aren't their enemy. We want the people who launched the coup and attacked us, not the regular citizens minding their own business."
Vance raised an eyebrow at the surprised reactions he got. "What? Blowing up everything is not the only solution we can come up with!"
"I want two sets of fully developed invasion plans based on staging grounds at Mombasa and Dar es Salaam. The first one will assume we can reasonably counter the enemy air force, though not necessarily guarantee friendly skies. The second one will plan for the kind of buildup needed to survive and remain effective under constant air attacks we can't counter effectively," Admiral Tillman ordered. "Generals Scudder and Vance, I want viable options for inserting special forces, supplying them and the local loyalists with weapons and other supplies they will need to hold on until we can begin deploying to the region in reasonable numbers. General Vance, the cruise missile strikes will continue to keep up the pressure. Get me viable proposals for the psychological war you suggested, and I'll present them to the President. Do we have any other viable conventional options?"
"What will be our response if Wakanda escalates?" Ross asked. He wasn't happy. Recent events ensured he didn't have time to indulge his Hulk obsession and ensured everyone knew it.
"Nuclear submarines are making their way to optimal launch positions, just in case."
Phase 16: No one likes the taste of a future war
=SI=
Part 5
=SI=
=SI=
Part 5
=SI=
Spanish Intelligence uncovers Wakandan plot to arm insurgent groups in Africa!
Euronews
Two attacks against Moroccan police stations and a border post claim over thirty casualties! Rebels aligned with the controversial state of West Sahara claim responsibility!
Moroccan sources confirm the use of advanced energy weapons, likely sourced from Wakanda.
Associated Press
The Kingdom of Morocco formally requests NATO support in dealing with Wakanda-supplied insurgents!
Euronews
Elements of the Spanish and Italian navy launched cruise missiles at targets in West Sahara, targeting known and suspected camps and ammo dumps of the Polisario Front, the name of the West Sahara/Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, used by the countries which do not recognize it. This could be an implicit statement by NATO supporting Morocco's claim of the area.
AFP
Elements of the French Foreign Legion, Spanish, and Italian Marines are deploying to Morocco to aid the Royal Moroccan Military in neutralizing the Polisario front permanently and to secure the advanced weapons delivered to it by Wakanda.
Euronews
Politicians in the United States voice their approval at the European members of NATO finally pulling their own weight, stirring controversy.
CNN
The first, comprehensive reports on the Wakanda Air Campaign begin to emerge. Within Europe alone, we have confirmed nearly a thousand military casualties, both wounded and dead, with a minimum of twenty-three thousand wounded civilians across dozens of cities across the continent. Fortunately, the civilian death toll has been low, with three hundred and twelve confirmed dead.
NATO material losses remain classified. However, pictures and video evidence points to at least a couple of hundred vehicles and systems of all kinds being destroyed or critically damaged. We have confirmed that multiple NATO fighters and helicopters of various types have been lost.
BBC World News
Military and government sources concur that Wakanda might have lost as much as a quarter of its air force during its attacks. Depending on manufacturing capacity and reserve, that might be a crippling blow, significantly limiting future offensive operations that Wakanda's Air Force could afford to launch.
CNN
Eleven thousand civilian casualties are reported throughout the United States. Experts believe that we suffered fewer overall casualties than Europe due to relatively lower population density in the vicinity of targets struck by Wakanda and heavily contested by the US military. Two hundred and eleven are confirmed dead, with hundreds more remaining in critical condition nationwide.
CNN
After firm casualty figures of the Wakandan unprovoked attacks began to emerge, an atmosphere of anger gripped the United States and Europe. We are hearing more and more calls for extreme measures to ensure Wakanda would be unable to attack anyone ever again.
CBS
The United States military released a set of parameters required for new air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles. The critical point of the new weapons program is the warhead and targeting capabilities. The warhead is necessary to defeat armored targets. At the same time, the targeting needs to be more than sufficient for the missiles to track and directly impact hard-to-detect targets. That is a significant departure from the decades-long trend for most anti-air missiles to be proximity-kill weapons, using high explosives, fragmentation, or similar warheads to neutralize targets they cannot hit directly. The requirements cite the need to defeat heavily armored aircraft, regardless of whether they are Wakandan or alien.
US Air Force Magazine
Taliban and Ten Rings militants launch counter-offensives, using the disruptions caused by Wakanda's attack to good effect.
ANA and Coalition forces' advances in Herat and Jalalabad have ceased. Taliban and Ten Rings localized counter-attacks managed to retake portions of the contested cities.
CNN
=SI=
The Pentagon
Washington DC
Generals from all US military branches met in a bunker below the Pentagon. In contrast, many others were present over video conference calls carried by hardlines.
"By now, you all should be familiar with what hard data we have, our estimates of the enemy's capabilities, and what we gathered from debriefing Wakanda's exiled royalty crosschecked with information gained by surrendered diplomatic personnel," Admiral Frederick, Tillman, the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, opened the meeting. "We are gathered today to discuss strategic options for dealing with Wakanda for good and begin developing them for presentation in front of the President for final approval. General Vance?"
"At this point, using air power to break Wakanda's capability to fight a modern war comprehensively is going to be unlikely. Their combination of stealth technologies and shields makes air strikes less effective than desired. A sustained long-term campaign has merit and is something I propose we continue and expand. However, until we find all Wakandan cities and facilities covered by holographic camouflage and can overwhelm their shields, the practical utility of the air strikes is limited. In practice, we are looking at strategic defense by tying down a significant part of the enemy's surviving air force, combined with eliminating defensive installations that aren't shielded, like the ring of energy cannons identified first by the French. In theory, a prolonged and sustained campaign of air strikes can overwhelm Wakanda's shields by sheer attrition on their systems and power sources. However, we do not know if going that route will be feasible in a reasonable amount of time. I regret to report that, at this point, using conventional means, we can't guarantee victory. There are too many unknown factors about Wakanda's capabilities. "
"That was sadly within my expectations," Admiral Tillman noted. "The same is true for the Navy's Carrier Battle Groups, with the added complication that getting them within strike range of Wakanda risk losing ships and thousands of crew due to the inability to stop Wakanda counter-strikes effectively. War games based on what happened to the French Charles de Gaule point at us simply not having the right tools for the task at hand. Even then, if the enemy smartens up and uses their new technologies smarter, it won't matter until we can effectively track and target their aircraft. That has implications for our primary strategic goals. You've read Stark's memorandum backed by all scientists and engineers working on the Royal Talon they're examining, right?"
"We need that technology even if it means walking through a river of our blood," Commandant Steven Hacket, the commander of the US Marine Corps, grimaced. "We will do it if we absolutely have to. However, Wakanda isn't our only strategic threat. Breaking a branch of the military to take it won't be advisable in the short to medium term. Does someone disagree on that point?"
It all went back to Wakanda's stealth fighters. As few as they were, and they were still more than most countries on the planet could muster as an air force, they were damn tough. During the first day, it became clear that the enemy could adapt, and it wouldn't take much to ensure they could cripple the logistics efforts of an invasion force. That was the issue. It didn't help that elements of the Kenyan and Tanzanian military and government managed to survive the coups and called for international support against Wakanda and the traitors who backed the coup. Under different circumstances, this would have meant the US Marines and the Army had the welcoming mat ready to receive them with friendly harbors available for uncontested landing and to act as logistics hubs.
In the present strategic situation, providing them with practical aid was easier said than done.
Ascribing reasonable competence to the enemy, any such attempt while their air force could operate with near impunity would mean thousands, if not tens of thousands, would commit expensive suicide. The rest would be stranded in Eastern Africa without logistics. The US air force was reasonably sure they could do that, tho the US Navy, even with heavy Air Cover from all air bases in reach, just used the known surviving Wakanda aircraft and their capabilities displayed to date.
One of the reasons for this meeting happening this late after the initial attacks was to give time for simulating an attempted landing and logistics efforts from Mombasa and Dar es Salaam. After the first war game ended as a disaster for the US military and their allies, two more took place, with the defenders learning lessons from their defeat.
The other two war games ended up looking a bit better until NATO ran out of cruise missiles due to the constant heavy barrages they threw at Wakanda to pin down as much of its air force as possible. That meant that if Wakanda went for a defensive posture instead of focusing on first crippling the invasion buildup, the US military and allies could get a few hundred kilometers from the ports before their logistics got cut to pieces. Then the people playing Wakanda released their air force to go for the ships and planes vital for supplying them.
What killed the idea of a cheap invasion was that a Wakandan aircraft could fly invisible until it was above a carrier, for example, then open its rear ramp and just push enough explosives on the deck to mission kill it.
Everyone relevant knew that for a fact after Wakanda deployed commandos on top of the building where Tony Stark was bunkering, while their aircraft hovering above it remained cloaked until they finished deploying ground forces and joined the battle.
The best scenario would be Wakanda losing an aircraft for every such stunt, something they could afford. It would be a bargain to cripple the US Navy's strike capabilities. The infuriating reality of the situation was that even more conventional attacks on naval assets could end up with painfully one-sided Wakandan victories. When the bastards crippled Charles de Gaule, the French carrier had only a few Rafales left to protect it. However, it had whole squadrons of the US Air Force from bases in the Persian Gulf covering it for all the good it did. They could not target the enemy effectively, and the combat environment was far different from the ones that produced the heavies Wakandan casualties to date.
If the conflict remained conventional, and there was no counter to Wakanda's stealth, the rest of the world would need years of buildup for the kind of logistics and expeditionary forces that could absorb punishing losses yet push through to Wakanda and take place.
That was a worst-case scenario, and they would plan for it but shelve the idea. The odds were the conflict would escalate into nuclear before anyone sane contemplated that kind of bloodbath.
"Wakanda's action in Kenya and Tanzania do give us an opening for an indirect approach," General Scudder offered. "They won't miss the buildup for a proper invasion or an attempt to insert special forces in Wakanda. We all know their detection and response capabilities dramatically increased after the French hit them."
The best theory was that the French raid caught Wakanda while still confused after the coup. After all, once the enemy reacted, everyone watched the cream of the French Navy Air Wing get wiped out in short order. The reaction to follow-up cruise missile strikes kept improving, if not so dramatically, as it did over the first couple of days.
"We might be able to insert special forces and equipment to aid the loyalists in Kenya and Tanzania. They can also aid by giving us targets for cruise missile strikes and give us hands-on experience fighting Wakanda's ground forces. We need to know more about the enemy's capabilities to plan an invasion better when we have an answer for their air force."
"Speaking about an indirect approach," General Vance interjected, "we have a few ideas. Nothing likely to be a war winner; however, every little bit helps. We suggest dropping leaflets all over Wakanda and using drones to establish a way for our exiled Royals to speak with their people and do their best to convince as many of them as possible that we aren't their enemy. We want the people who launched the coup and attacked us, not the regular citizens minding their own business."
Vance raised an eyebrow at the surprised reactions he got. "What? Blowing up everything is not the only solution we can come up with!"
"I want two sets of fully developed invasion plans based on staging grounds at Mombasa and Dar es Salaam. The first one will assume we can reasonably counter the enemy air force, though not necessarily guarantee friendly skies. The second one will plan for the kind of buildup needed to survive and remain effective under constant air attacks we can't counter effectively," Admiral Tillman ordered. "Generals Scudder and Vance, I want viable options for inserting special forces, supplying them and the local loyalists with weapons and other supplies they will need to hold on until we can begin deploying to the region in reasonable numbers. General Vance, the cruise missile strikes will continue to keep up the pressure. Get me viable proposals for the psychological war you suggested, and I'll present them to the President. Do we have any other viable conventional options?"
"What will be our response if Wakanda escalates?" Ross asked. He wasn't happy. Recent events ensured he didn't have time to indulge his Hulk obsession and ensured everyone knew it.
"Nuclear submarines are making their way to optimal launch positions, just in case."
Huh nuclear sub's might be a better long term orbital defense investment then those horribly designed Heli-carriers. Especially if they look into dusting off the various world war and cold war design studies. Submersible carriers are one hell of a better design for orbital defense work especially if they get fusion reactors installed. Further there's the old sub's with guns designs that can be reworked with orbital defense weapons for mobile orbital defense. Both designs beat out land based casemates and they beat the Heli-carriers in everything but pure speed. Hell the Heli-carrier can't glide so if it gets hit high enough its going down hard. Would love to see Stark replace the Heli-carrier design with a flying wing based design with at least 6 VTOL fans but 8 to 10 would be better. The VTOL fans themselves would be required to have enough excess lift that half the fans could be destroyed and they could still lift and land the craft. The Heli-carriers remind me way to much of Starblazers except they are not spaceships and as such don't have the engines to fly against the pull of gravity.
So when are the enhanced people going to play a part? I'm forgetting where the Hulk is pre Avengers.
Sorry if this was already answered but what's stopping Tony from iterating and creating the iron man armor?
Sorry if this was already answered but what's stopping Tony from iterating and creating the iron man armor?
- Location
- USA
I think the author said that the Iron Man suit, aside from the original Mk. 1, is beyond the current technology base of Earth to be produced, even for a genius like Tony Stark.
The author making it so that kind of super science doesn't actually exist.
The helicariers, which will be a thing, won't be meant for orbital defense. They will be cloaked platforms to act as mobile bases and strike platforms that could get close enough to the enemy before launcing an attack on staging grounds and beachheads. By that point, any submariens would have already shot their bolt trying to degrade an invadsion force. As for them being anti-orbital platform, against an enemy with good AA/PD systems, there would simply be too much time before missiles reach their targets in orbit for them to be very effective. The best use would be for hitting an invasion as it tries to land, or after landing, to wipe out beachheads. The same is true for submarines using energy weapons. They will need to burn through the atmopshere before hitting a target, degrading their firepower significantly. A shielded ground to orbit emplacement built into a mountain and potentially having rivers, lakes and seas as heatsinks, will be much more useful. The downside of the latter is that if an enemy can takie it out, doing so would basically fuck up large chunks of the continent that Planetary Defence Center is built into. Of course, if as an invader you lack the capability of doing so, you don't have any business pocking a planet with such defenses in the first place.
Yes. Science in this timelien is much closer to IRL than to what we see in the MCU for reasons I've covered multiple times. So both OTL Tony fron this timeline and Sith Tony can in theory design IM MK 2 suit right now, but they don't have the tech to make it work as we saw in the movie without it killing the pilot. Hell, the tech to built much larger versions of the repulsors, arc reactor, etc.... that are great game changers isn't there yet, primarily material science and viable ways to deal with heat, as Ivan Vanko's POV showed. Vanko and his father in this timeline work for Hydra, trying to make better version of the Arc reactor, and failing due to lacking good enough materials. This will gradually change through the uplift effort, vibranium as a short cut, and alien technoligies. The first IM sutis we will see will incorporate Asgardian magitech and will be prototypes that Earth won't be able to replicate in capabilities for decades.
The only relevan ehhanced human that SHIELD or SWORD has access to right now is the Black Widow, and as good as she is, she isn't taking out Wakanda's new leadership at the head of a few commando teams. Bruce Banner is in hidding, likely with the aid of the Illuminati, who don't want to watch Ross blow up stuff again in yet another futile attempt to bring down the Hulk.
Captain America and the Winter Soldier are both on ice, for different reasons, and for now, that's it as far as enhanced people are concerned. We won't be seeing Ant-Man, Wasp, etc... for decades if not centuries - that kind of tech would be something bleeding edge for the likes of Skrull, Kree and Nova Corps, just like the IM Mk2 suit should be. Such things are such game changers that without treating science as plot device, the tech to make them, would have put Earth on the level of a galactic power decades before Tony Stark could build IM MK 2, or we could see Ant-Man or Wasp suit.
So much for not ranting about the reasons I went with "downgrading" this timeline tech and ability wise.
Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
No wonder even canon Tony had nothing to do with helicarriers. They're grandiose waste of money.
I would test that city shield with a tactical nuke, those things are relatively clean now? Knock it out and then regular missiles do the rest.
Also an incentive to develop rods of god.
I would test that city shield with a tactical nuke, those things are relatively clean now? Knock it out and then regular missiles do the rest.
Also an incentive to develop rods of god.
The problem with that is the possibility of the shield tanking the nuke, and Wakanda retaliating in kind, either going for critical infrastructure, or by using their own WMDs if they have them. If you nuke the, after knowing they have shields, you better be sure you'll get the job done the first time. And if you do so successsfully, all that advanced Wakandan technology, know how, scientists and engineers that everyone sane wants intact, go up in smoke.
Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
Wouldn't T'Challa know about WMD's and their lack of?
It's a risk, fire a mini nuke and then observe if the shield is flickering to normal missiles. If it's still strong, give it another nuke. There's no reason to stop and let them fire back.
Are you under the impression that while T'Challa and Shuri are willing to help the rest of the world take out the plotters who tried to kill them, they are also so cooperative as to make it clear if it's safe to nuke Wakanda? And as Crown Prince, it is entirely possible T'Challa wasn't in the loop on what WMDs or contingencies Wakanda has in case of a war with the rest of the world. Further, as of now, anyone knows only the Golen City's location. Wakandas 6 milion or so people aren't all cramped in it, far from it, and most of them, aren't cosplaying traditionally living farmers on the border. Further, depending on how the shield work, that its online won't necessary prevent people inside from shooting out.
Informational: No nuking Wakanda, drop this particular discussion please!
There will be no nuking Wakanda, unless Wakanda further escalates first, and no overt attempts to push Wakanda into a cornrer where it believes that it has nothing to lose by escallating. Like eradicating its food supply and salting the ground, for tactical advantage, or just nuking shielded cities to see how much nukes a city shield can tank before either breaking, or flickering to allow missile strikes inside.
GeekGod_of_Speed
He Who Enjoys The Big Words
Is wakanda connected to the internet? Cause I think you're overlooking Jarvis attempting to hack them, you also have enough vibranium and examples of their computers to upgrade him enough to have teeth and the royals might still have some administrative access, and you can't tell me shuri didn't hack their own servers when she is basically a mini-stark without being an asshole and he hacked the pentagon
Also adjacent to nukes, what about an EMP? As in detonating one outside the atmosphere or having some super tech attempt Stark pulls out of his ass based on Ion-tech. Sorry if it's still too close to the topic you have banished but I feel it's distinct enough, and if you need a plot way to get a nuke in orbit without them detecting a launch I can totally see our government having a few satellites already up there for that
Also adjacent to nukes, what about an EMP? As in detonating one outside the atmosphere or having some super tech attempt Stark pulls out of his ass based on Ion-tech. Sorry if it's still too close to the topic you have banished but I feel it's distinct enough, and if you need a plot way to get a nuke in orbit without them detecting a launch I can totally see our government having a few satellites already up there for that
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We covered a long time ago that there's no magic hackign in this timeline, if for no other reason, anyone worth hacking actually air-gaps their secure networks, so you need someone in the inside to deal with that at the absolute best. From what we know, Wakanda as a whole isn't connected to the Internet, though the odd place used to cover how advanced Wakanda is might be.
While Ion cannons are somewhat more effective against shields than regular turbolasers, to deal with a theater shield you still need sustaiend bombardment by capital ships. That's the kind of firepower that even with Ion cannons would kill anyone unprotected caught outside the ship, and if you don't time your bombardment just right, fry most people and electronics in the targeted city.
If a shield can tank nukes, it can absolute tank EMPs and neutron radiation. Otherwise said shield will be crap protection against nuclear weapons.
GeekGod_of_Speed
He Who Enjoys The Big Words
What about baiting the fighters outside the shield and ….Wait no, they have their own shields…. Crap, I don't think you mentioned if the "theatre Shield" around the capital has different capabilities to the ones on the ships beyond the standard power loss of shrinking the tech.
I love how prompt you are with replying and answering questions, I'm pretty sure your the best author I've commented too and it makes me feel bad that I get the feeling of frustration from that post
Whats the best idea you've gotten from a commenter?
- Pronouns
- the immortal
For orbital defence, good old fashioned MAC canon platforms and battle stations to protect those canons.
As for the heli carriers. I think airborne destroyers and battleships that can take and dish out punishments are better. And better carriers for aircraft. As far as I am considered those heli carriers are a waste of resources.
Space worthy ships with atmospheric capabilities are much better than wasting limited resources on heli carriers. *cough* Venators and imperial star destroyers *cough*
As for the heli carriers. I think airborne destroyers and battleships that can take and dish out punishments are better. And better carriers for aircraft. As far as I am considered those heli carriers are a waste of resources.
Space worthy ships with atmospheric capabilities are much better than wasting limited resources on heli carriers. *cough* Venators and imperial star destroyers *cough*
Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
Illuviar is really commendable, even replying to readers who already had their questions answered if they paid attention.
I'm loving the reader interaction.
I'm loving the reader interaction.
GeekGod_of_Speed
He Who Enjoys The Big Words
We still have issues with getting stuff into space with one shot with the propellant being comparable to a Nuke theres been some recent breakthroughs that I've seen of a radial based acceleration chamber but that just removes the need for most of the first stage of getting out of the atmosphere, it won't work until tony has good materials for practical Railgun applications
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
Wakanda officially not being connected to the Internet? Absolutely.
Some civilians having mobile phones or laptops or pads or something with youtube/twitter/spotify/netflix/viaplay whatever, even if they are supposed not to? Also almost a certainity. But that is a lot less access than it could have been, true. Unless some IT people went all "connect the server to online games" or something, of course. Or maybe under the heading of "spying on the outsiders" or something. That... may or may not have expanded a bit. On the sly.
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That's what the second step of the uplift after fusion becomes common will be aimed at - using new materrials, and fusion power to develop cheap lift, so step three can begin - building orbital infrastructure, in preparation of step four - orbital industry creating materials that you need both tons of power for and microgravity conditions. At that point, many of the problems holding back this timeline will begin to be resolved tech wise, because the new materials and focused scientific effort will begin solving them.
Wakanda's fighters don't have traditional shields, though their cloaking system use some of the shield technology to mask heat so they don't stick out on thermals when cloaked. Practically speaking, shields are useless to the Wakandan fighters because they won't provide any better protection than the armor at the cost of making the fighters larger due the need of bigger power sources, heavier, etc....
To kill them reliably you already need direct hits with anti-tank weponry. No one sane is ready to open the nuclear pandora box, though it was discussed by the powers that be in unvierse, and there are many civilians screaming to do it, yeasterday. Wakanda, if mostly intact, is too much of a prize to nuke if you have any other reason, and if you don't nuke it comprehensively, the first time, which will mean you lose everything Wakanda has to offer, you run the risk of retaliation in kind.
Another practical reason is that given Wakanda's shield technology and other defenses, the French for example, might not be able to deliver a crippling first strike at maximum effort no matter how much some in their military and government might like to. And no one wants to strike first and fuck it up, then eat the retaliation. So unles Wakanda escallates first, no nuclear weapons period.
EDIT: As far as ideas go, as of late, most of them are variations on how to nuke Wakanda, or how to best push Wakanda into strategic retaliation without actually nuking it. It's been frustrating. Before that, there were variosu good ideas regarding the uplift and the changes needed and required to both get the world more united, and to reasonably harden it against alien incursions.
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avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Concerning the layout of orbital and planetary weapon systems, I feel that you would want a mixture of various weapon systems to be most effective against the widest amount of alien invaders and their differing methodologies. However there are geographic and environmental concerns as well, such as ballistic and energy weapons having trouble getting through a planetary atmosphere if they're mounted on the surface of a planet.
In that regard I would pursue two strategies. Orbital weapons would primarily be ballistic and energy weaponry, which would avoid the issues of an atmosphere entirely. In addition energy weapons also avoid issues with ammunition, mainly requiring large power sources to provide power, which we can now do with building sufficiently large fusion reactors and orbit. Imagine something like the G.O.D. satellites from Babylon 5, those were very large planetary defense satellites.
On a planet my main thoughts would lean toward missiles. Missiles can be launched from any point on a planet's surface, either from silos or from submarines in the ocean, and can have any number of warhead types fixed to them. We would start with conventional and nuclear warheads, as well as fusion and neutron warheads, but we could eventually develop casaba howitzer warheads, which would allow any missile that breached the atmosphere of our planet to extend it's range tremendously potentially by a light second or more, allowing enemy ships much farther out from the orbitals to be hit and wounded significantly before they could even get close to our planet. And a planet can have a lot of missiles stored inside of it, given a long enough time to build up arsenals.
I do have an idea about how ballistic batteries of significant mass could be mounted on planets. It would be simple, place weapons batteries and planetary defense centers on the tops of the tallest mountains all around the world. It would require a certain amount of environmental engineering, and due to the sheer altitude would be a logistical nightmare to do, but once the infrastructure was built one could build giant ballistic batteries much much higher in the atmosphere than if they were on sea level, which means they would avoid much of the issues with atmospheric friction. This issue also applies to energy weapons as well, potentially even better because if you're going to the effort of building a PDC on top of Mount Everest, you can also build a giant ass fusion reactor to power giant ass orbital lasers.
If you built underground accelerators similar to the technology used by particle accelerators, except in this case your accelerating giant bolts you could even have essentially extremely long barrels for really powerful railgun firing, the actual ejecting point would be at the top of a mountain but it could spend miles being accelerated by pre-established accelerator coils underground. So it could allow for railguns that are potentially ridiculously powerful, where all the infrastructure to power said weaponry is underground and would take an enemy force a ridiculously long time to dismantle or even damage said infrastructure.
On a final note, if one does build giant massed energy weapons batteries on top of the tallest mountains like I proposed, one could also design them to be two stage weapons. What I am envisioning is a two-stage firing mechanism where a weaker laser is fired that is strong enough to ionize the atmosphere and create a temporary vacuum in front of the primary weapon being fired, which would massively reduce atmospheric dispersion and increase the power being concentrated in the primary attack beam. Again, if you're going to the effort of building energy weapons on a planet, you may as well automatically institute a two-stage firing mechanisms simply to maintain maximum power output in the attack. It may require more energy, but you can just build fusion reactors bigger as they scale up with size, which is handy how that works with fusion and plasma physics.
I haven't even discussed anything like fighters or drone deployments, but I imagine much the same argument would also apply to putting them at the top of mountains as well, simply because they'll be the closest to outer space. Helicarriers might also be useful once Stark upgrades them with 24/7 repulsor flight like in the Winter Soldier movie, to be permanent high altitude drone deployment carriers, so you essentially have hordes of defense drones constantly in movement in the upper atmosphere of Earth, ready for any attack from pretty much any direction.
In terms of fighters versus drones, I would probably go more with drones, using shear industrial output as quantity over quality. We could easily have fighter squadrons manned by actual humans, as the instinctive and creative output of a human mind is still better than most drone programming for the near future, but I imagine most human fighters would be elite squadrons, focusing on quality instead of quantity as an inverse.
Lastly, since I am running out of time to speculate being that I'm at home, in terms of aquatic Navy's I would aim to massively increase the stealth capabilities of any and all surface ships. For a space fairing civilization existing surface warships are basically all target practice, and won't necessarily be able to do enough damage to warrant the funding and expense of large aquatic navies. Surface warships could still be useful, but again I feel stealth would be a much larger element that would be needed. I also recommend massively increasing the amount of all ships that have submersible capability, because hiding in the oceans would drastically improve stealth capabilities against hiding from offensive alien forces in orbit. This does not necessarily mean that every submersible has to be a missile launching nuclear submarine, it just means that if you have a battleship with railguns and Laser cannons, that it would also need to be a submersible, and its weapons would be retracted into the hull only deployed externally when there's something to shoot when they surface.