[X] [Jeyne] Ask for Advice on ruling and how to deal with men who will oppose you.
[X] [Otto] Decline. You don't need Otto's help in this.
 
There's a difference between End Boss and Insurmountable obstacle. Daemon and Velaryon alliance would literally a 1v4 on dragons, 3 of which are noticeably larger than Syrax.

That's true only if everything goes well for them and poorly for us and we have no chances to recover from then on. In canon two of those four dragon riders die before the succession crisis even starts. While we definitely shouldn't count on everything going exactly to canon - Daemon has no reason to assassinate Laenor here if he was responsible in canon, nothing has happened that would avert Laena's death in childbirth. And divergences can cut two ways - if Viserys lives a bit longer, Rhaenys might well die or become too old to fly before any succession crisis kicks off.

If things seem like they're spiraling out of control, I've got nothing against course correcting or preemptive action, and certainly once it's a real problem rather than a potential one Rhaenyra shouldn't act out of character in allowing it to fester. But I don't want to nip it in the bud before that point. Also, we picked the warrior princess background, we should expect to solve a decent number of our problems with violence.

Also, don't see why marrying Laenor would turn Otto against us. We just saw that even if we don't marry Gwayne, doing favors for his family increases his opinion.

Rhaenyra would be aligning ourselves with his rival who has conflicting interests to his. And also I expect having illegitimate kids would rapidly tank his approval, since he'd view it as Rhaenyra being a foolish girl.

His approval of defiant and headstrong princess is probably going to be hard to keep up, and I'd expect the best we can expect is fluctuating neutral to mildly positive even absent a marriage to Laenor.

I don't think Rhaenyra marrying Gwayne would be the worst idea in the world - he seems decent, it'd lock in Otto as an ally, it probably the only way he's accept Rhaenyra/Alicent if that happens, and he could be a decent beard if that happens. Although I'd want to see if we can get to the point where it at least doesn't build stress to propose.
 
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That's true only if everything goes well for them and poorly for us and we have no chances to recover from then on. In canon two of those four dragon riders die before the succession crisis even starts. While we definitely shouldn't count on everything going exactly to canon - Daemon has no reason to assassinate Laenor here if he was responsible in canon, nothing has happened that would avert Laena's death in childbirth. And divergences can cut two ways - if Viserys lives a bit longer, Rhaenys might well die or become too old to fly before any succession crisis kicks off.

If things seem like they're spiraling out of control, I've got nothing against course correcting or preemptive action, and certainly once it's a real problem rather than a potential one Rhaenyra shouldn't act out of character in allowing it to fester. But I don't want to nip it in the bud before that point. Also, we picked the warrior princess background, we should expect to solve a decent number of our problems with violence.



Rhaenyra would be aligning ourselves with his rival who has conflicting interests to his. And also I expect having illegitimate kids would rapidly tank his approval, since he'd view it as Rhaenyra being a foolish girl.

His approval of defiant and headstrong princess is probably going to be hard to keep up, and I'd expect the best we can expect is fluctuating neutral to mildly positive.
Yeah there's a lot of things to consider here. The Dance of Dragons is not going to happen tomorrow, it will probably not happen this decade unless something drastic happens. Which gives us a lot of time for things to happen, for people to die or change alliances.

But is important to remember the alliances of who you marry. Rhaenyra marrying Daemon made the Dance, or at least the Dance being a full blown conflict, unavoidable.
 
Honestly, if we don't marry Laenor, which I'd prefer, it'd probably be best to pick someone with access to a fleet to contest any velaryon ambitions. So that'd be the lannisters or the redwynes or the dornish or the ironb-pfft, sorry couldn't say that with a straight face.
There was a martell in the romance list iirc and if anyone would be okay with us maintaining a relationship with Alicent after getting married it'd probably be a dornishman. Would probably be rough politically though.
I expect the martells would be worst politically but best on a personal level, jason lannister sounds like a miserable husband but a good political option. Maybe his brother would work better? Anyone know what the redwyne family looks like this era? I'd say Tyrells to get their overlord, but I don't think they're particularly available at the moment iirc.
 
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I think politically speaking we may need to marry Laenor because we need make sure House Velaryon's dragons (and its fleet) are on our side. The major issue here is Laenor's orientation, however that may not be completely insurmountable because I thought of a few ways around it:
  • Acquire a male Dragon-seed lover and pass of the kids as Laenor's.
  • Involve Joffrey (or other male lovers of Laenor) in our bedroom activates, in the hopes it gets him interested.
  • Get Laenor so drunk, he can't tell the difference.
  • Blood Magic (which may require Alys Rivers)
 
@Teen Spirit So why *does* the idea of marrying Gwayne set Rhaenyra off so much? Is it just that she doesn't really know him or does she actually dislike him or what? If we spent time getting closer to him would she warm up to the idea? Or is she just stressed about getting married at all?
 
@Teen Spirit So why *does* the idea of marrying Gwayne set Rhaenyra off so much? Is it just that she doesn't really know him or does she actually dislike him or what? If we spent time getting closer to him would she warm up to the idea? Or is she just stressed about getting married at all?
It's not Gwayne so much as the fear of being trapped in a loveless marriage. Rhaenyra wants one of two things, either a marriage built on love or she has a romantic relationship and an understanding with whoever she marries. The Romantic trait means Rhaenyra really wants romance in her life.
 
It's not Gwayne so much as the fear of being trapped in a loveless marriage. Rhaenyra wants one of two things, either a marriage built on love or she has a romantic relationship and an understanding with whoever she marries. The Romantic trait means Rhaenyra really wants romance in her life.

I maintain my opinion that Gwayne and Alicent are rather ideal for the latter.

Gwayne is also the son of a second son, Lord Hand or not, which would also be benefitial in that he'd be less likely to get ideas above his station or try and rule as king jure uxoris.

And we know Otto's brood should be enough to get House Hightower on side, given canon.
 
[X] [Jeyne] Ask for Advice on Alicent and her possible interest in you.
[X] [Jeyne] Ask for Advice on ruling and how to deal with men who will oppose you.
 
[X] [Jeyne] Ask for Advice on Alicent and her possible interest in you.

[X] [Jeyne] Ask for Advice on ruling and how to deal with men who will oppose you
 
I think politically speaking we may need to marry Laenor because we need make sure House Velaryon's dragons (and its fleet) are on our side. The major issue here is Laenor's orientation, however that may not be completely insurmountable because I thought of a few ways around it:
  • Acquire a male Dragon-seed lover and pass of the kids as Laenor's.
  • Involve Joffrey (or other male lovers of Laenor) in our bedroom activates, in the hopes it gets him interested.
  • Get Laenor so drunk, he can't tell the difference.
  • Blood Magic (which may require Alys Rivers)
It's not gonna be that challenging just absolutely miserable. Cause in the Show Laenor and Rhaenyra agreed to do their duties and then have their own fun, then they tried a couple of times, and apparently the experince was so bad for both of them that they both agreed to just pass off Harwin's kids as Laenors and never try again.
 
It's not gonna be that challenging just absolutely miserable. Cause in the Show Laenor and Rhaenyra agreed to do their duties and then have their own fun, then they tried a couple of times, and apparently the experince was so bad for both of them that they both agreed to just pass off Harwin's kids as Laenors and never try again.

It probably didn't work because Laenor wasn't drunk enough.
 
Okay here's where things stand, if they don't change in the next few hours I'll just close voting early.

Adhoc vote count started by Fanhunter696 on Sep 9, 2024 at 6:00 PM, finished with 73 posts and 44 votes.
 
Hey, maybe it's not cool to talk about gay people just needing to get drunk enough to act out an unwanted hetero marriage. Can we not?

I agree that Laenor is probably the best political match so long as we both find romantic intimacy elsewhere and build a strong friendship besides, but we can try to talk to him and Laena to bring them to our side by other methods.
 
Yeah uh, we don't need to be getting weird. And I get that people are trying to find a way to get kids out of Laenor that are legit without incuring Stress and I'm just gonna tell you right now, simply not possible.
 
If we wanted to avoid conflict entirely by clever marriages we should have picked the diplo background, rather than the defiant warrior princess with a romantic streak.

IMO we should expect that there will be some coalition for Daemon, or the Velayrons, or a firstborn son of Viserys, and they will be a powerful and credible threat that Rhaenyra will need to defeat in a war or some other martial contest.

We should make sure that when that happens we have our own allies and it's not one sided, but preventing it entirely sounds both impossible and boring to read if it did happen.
 
I suspect with Laenor; if we set up a good relationship with him, or even help him find his later lover Qarl (forming their own polycule with Joffrey); we'd be buddies for life.

Especially if we offer for him a place in Kingslanding away from his overbearing father, and his constant demands to be married/have kids.

Laena, despite having Vhaegar, I don't feel would be all that interested in fighting with us. Should we have a decent ground game (seduction, or friendship) I suspect she can keep her husband (who does actually care for her in the show) and her parents (she actually produced heirs) off our backs.
 
I mean we don't want Laena not to marry Daemon just because we're 💯 going to murder each other. We also don't want them to marry because that's a disgusting power imbalance by way of age and experience and Daemon is absolutely just as manipulative and unhealthy a partner to her as he is to Rhaenyra.

It's also still incest, if further apart, which despite the realities of the setting is still bad and should be avoided. In fact the whole timeline since the conquest contains a series of very public demonstrations of incest just being a constant disaster for Westeros!

Laena also literally died in childbirth, which maybe can be avoided by lucky rolls, but hell, we'd probably still have to kill her in the civil war.

So like, no idea what we're gonna say to her to get her away from Daemon but we really should make an effort.
 
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