- Location
- washington
Not trying to relate to the horror king too much to discourage but the horror king did have a see the worse in things thing going for them.
The God Diversion
- Thread starter Birdsie
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Louisiana
Related to the other two (an eldritch parasite or a complete change in moral valence), visions is definitely the least horror king-esque. Supreme manifestation wasn't about seeing the worst in things, it was a complete rewrite of our personality into an Eldritch monster due to a parasite changing our brains. Sounds a lot more familiar to two options on offer here, and it's not vision.
- Location
- 1
I'm aware! but between 'you have to be a jerk', 'You are semi-possessed by an eldritch manifestation of your worst traits', and 'you are extra good at seeing the worst in things', I judge the third as the least reminiscent of Horror King. I'd rather take a write-in, but those cost 12 SC, and there's no way we're getting that without, like, dropping the Advanced Empowerment if we even can still drop the Advanced Empowerment.
...Hm, did the winning plan include 'Educational Exploration'? if not, since we have 25 Will, can we add on Educational Exploration to improve these aspects?
(Of course, that would mean we have 15 less Will, but depending on how much it can attenuate the downsides and how big those downsides are, it might be worth it? or not, if you think we'll need to spend More Will to get full benefit from Advanced Empowerment.)
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- Location
- washington
[X] Plan Carnage
[X] Plan: Eldritch Mysteries
[X] Plan: Eldritch Mysteries
[X] Plan Bigger Gun
So maybe I've missed something, but I don't understand why you world argue visions is less useful then the other aspects, it's something that's used to gather information, and if taken with any of the items will more easily allow of the replication of the magical effects they have via understanding it's hidden truths and dark secrets of it's making, with it ability to understand that which is forbidden or hidden, it might have the ablilty to let Solomon figure out what spells and rituals were taken out of the necronomicon and give us the ability to wield them ourselves.
So maybe I've missed something, but I don't understand why you world argue visions is less useful then the other aspects, it's something that's used to gather information, and if taken with any of the items will more easily allow of the replication of the magical effects they have via understanding it's hidden truths and dark secrets of it's making, with it ability to understand that which is forbidden or hidden, it might have the ablilty to let Solomon figure out what spells and rituals were taken out of the necronomicon and give us the ability to wield them ourselves.
- Location
- washington
I prefer eldrich of course but knowing there are only some will downsides and probably nothing immediate I'm fine if vision wins. Though I'm curious if it can synergies very well with the specialization that gives us anti magic and enrolled power or if it would be redundant.
Rihaku
The Internet
Hm. Lealope on Discord made the point that if we take Cradle, it increases the probability that we will spend many actions locked in our room solving puzzles instead of engaging with our classmates or Fortuna. An insightful point and in light of this I'm going to retract support for Cradle builds generally. A mystery box we simply sit in our room and study means we experience much less socialization / adventuring - it's a tax on actual content we wanna see. And if we don't study it, it's useless and we'll be distracted by later shinies…
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- Location
- washington
I think cradle could be great but quite honestly so many other things can be too. Also Birdsie already said we can't use it as an architecture training aid.
- Location
- Louisiana
People want to have actual content (socializing and exploring the world). The cube is a long term investment best touched later when our will generation is less perilous and our skills are more advanced to handle the challenges it presents. It might lead to more actions that don't have explicit word count, but I don't think so. We already have to balance studying/passive actions with social/active actions. This is not a mechanical balance, this is a narrative balance. Adding in more mechanical reasons to study does not adjust the reasoning for why we narratively should focus on some level of world interaction.
The opportunity cost of taking the cube is that we don't take Athame. I do not think Athame is required in any way since the revolver is so absurd. The research implications of Athame long term is dark occultist sacrificial rituals, which I'm personally not huge on. I'd rather have the research line to develop our own personalized world as our sanctum. At least, to have the option to do this later (or even during the epilogue).
The opportunity cost of taking the cube is that we don't take Athame. I do not think Athame is required in any way since the revolver is so absurd. The research implications of Athame long term is dark occultist sacrificial rituals, which I'm personally not huge on. I'd rather have the research line to develop our own personalized world as our sanctum. At least, to have the option to do this later (or even during the epilogue).
- Location
- 1
proposal:
[X] Plan Compromise Because Birdsie Cannot Be Trusted After Immersion
-[X] If this is truly a reward vote, such that Eldritch does NOT have downsides which will take any more than 7 SC to nullify no matter how long we leave them to fester, or try to make Solomon evil, or turn him into an idiot, or be supreme manifestation, or generally be a trap, this is a vote for plan Eldritch Mysteries. Cases where Eldritch gives Will benefits and Will drains, but the benefits outnumber the drains(in practice, not theory. benefits to several still-inefficient actiontypes do not qualify as benefits.), are not traps. Cases where Eldritch is a selectively useful power, but at no point worse than nothing, are not traps. Cases where Eldritch is an overall Will drain and does not give proportional discounts to Everything are traps. If there are situations, outside of hyperspecific scenarios like an eldritch-being-hunter catching wind of us, where a Solomon who never got this Aspect would be better off, it is a trap.
-[X] If the parsing of this vote does not contain an explicit confirmation that Eldritch is not a trap per the above, of a kind which would Not have been deceptively given regarding Supreme Manifestation, this is a vote for May You Have Eyes.. instead.
If Birdsie did not want people mistrusting his 'reward' 'votes', maybe he shouldn't've made a whole quest's plot about an alleged bonus on page one causing problems clean through from start to finish.
[X] Plan Compromise Because Birdsie Cannot Be Trusted After Immersion
-[X] If this is truly a reward vote, such that Eldritch does NOT have downsides which will take any more than 7 SC to nullify no matter how long we leave them to fester, or try to make Solomon evil, or turn him into an idiot, or be supreme manifestation, or generally be a trap, this is a vote for plan Eldritch Mysteries. Cases where Eldritch gives Will benefits and Will drains, but the benefits outnumber the drains(in practice, not theory. benefits to several still-inefficient actiontypes do not qualify as benefits.), are not traps. Cases where Eldritch is a selectively useful power, but at no point worse than nothing, are not traps. Cases where Eldritch is an overall Will drain and does not give proportional discounts to Everything are traps. If there are situations, outside of hyperspecific scenarios like an eldritch-being-hunter catching wind of us, where a Solomon who never got this Aspect would be better off, it is a trap.
-[X] If the parsing of this vote does not contain an explicit confirmation that Eldritch is not a trap per the above, of a kind which would Not have been deceptively given regarding Supreme Manifestation, this is a vote for May You Have Eyes.. instead.
If Birdsie did not want people mistrusting his 'reward' 'votes', maybe he shouldn't've made a whole quest's plot about an alleged bonus on page one causing problems clean through from start to finish.
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- Location
- Bologna
Bro, this is insulting phrasing. If you don't trust the QM, don't like his narrative structure, or any other thing he does, just don't read this quest. There are plenty of others, and even similar style is represented here and there.
Don't try to rile the voters against them or insinuate bad intentions.
- Location
- 1
I suppose I should clarify. By 'cannot be trusted after immersion', I mean, "when Birdsie says 'this is a reward vote', I cannot confidently infer that the options of the vote are beneficial rewards which can be safely picked between, as I would normally think if someone said 'this is a reward vote', and instead must assess the options as if each of them, or even all of them, are trap options; because previous observations have indicated that seemingly reward votes, even ones described in positive terms, often contain one or several traps, most saliently Supreme Manifestation in Immersion. the shortest way to say this is that he cannot be trusted after immersion.".
In terms of intention, the purpose of that vote was to serve as a compromise between distrust and acceptance. I was already voting for 'May You Have Eyes.. ' out of distrust, but much argument has been made in the vein that this is a huge waste being made out of distrust, and my distrust is bounded; I think Birdsie would be deceptive in statements he makes, but would not be deceptive in parsing votes. So, if these arguments are correct and there is no deception here, and if Birdsie indeed wishes for his statements to be fully trustworthy but is unfortunately limited by his earlier writings, then the first conditional of the compromise should presumably apply; and if my distrust is correct and desired- if he wants this doubt to exist- then the second conditional should presumably apply. Since this vote represents a shift from expressed unconditional distrust to bounded distrust, I would say, relative to the original vote, it is less hostile; it is simply more clear since I wrote the plan name instead of voting for someone else's plan.
I will concede there is an aspect of spite in the phrasing of the last line,
If Birdsie did not want people mistrusting his 'reward' 'votes', maybe he shouldn't've made a whole quest's plot about an alleged bonus on page one causing problems clean through from start to finish.; but if the rest of the reply is at fault, than so was my original vote for bringing up the Horror King at all.ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
[X] Plan Carnage
I have been convinced by the arguments that we need short-term weapons to deal with the upcoming major arc of dangerous stuff, and I always liked Eldritch anyways.
I have been convinced by the arguments that we need short-term weapons to deal with the upcoming major arc of dangerous stuff, and I always liked Eldritch anyways.
It has come to my attention that many of us might be wondering if Necronomicon might not be the best comfy spell aid.
Allow me to swiftly correct that line of discourse.
Sol has a proclivity towards hammocks in general. If he went Wheel he'd make the hammock with the strings of fate. Instead..
Summon Evard's tentacles to weave into the ultimate hammock/sleeping bag cocoon and comfy spell the tentacles into the optimal arrangement for maximal decadence.
With Arms of Hadar we can give Sol a backrub on command, kneading stressed muscles.
They could even assist during meals.
Allow Sol to consume Coffee Jello without effort after programming the tentacles to anticipate scoops and spoon feed him.
Sol doesn't feel up to getting up? Simply cast the spell and get the tentacles to puppeteer his body up while brushing his teeth.
Grasp of Hadar to conveniently grab a pen for writing assignment or turning on and off light switches.
Blink in and out of clothes without having to bother meticulously putting them on.
Sleep to well, sleep.
l've also had thoughts about taking the Seed of Genesis.. and then trading it with Bible class for something equivalent, should we choose.
They reportedly also have the analyst specialists, they could help crack the cube or glean it's use. And if it has Role synergy with potentially the entire Bible class because of the Genesis aspect.. They might let us pull favours or negotiate something like the Staff of Moses.
I bring up Bible class also because they and their world will no longer be available to us next year.
Thoughts on Vision:
Vision's weakness sense would work itself so well with our other aspects. Power and creativity is all well and good. But you gotta know where to aim. And how to direct the arcane might.
It feels like a perfect marriage of Sol's architecture knowledge with other Magician aspects.
We have committed to hard levelling architecture. I'd really like to see more practical effects of this - in combat and out of combat.
So far only direct application of Architecture we got offered is the aura sensing and the string of fate thing from different Roles.
Allow me to swiftly correct that line of discourse.
Sol has a proclivity towards hammocks in general. If he went Wheel he'd make the hammock with the strings of fate. Instead..
Summon Evard's tentacles to weave into the ultimate hammock/sleeping bag cocoon and comfy spell the tentacles into the optimal arrangement for maximal decadence.
With Arms of Hadar we can give Sol a backrub on command, kneading stressed muscles.
They could even assist during meals.
Allow Sol to consume Coffee Jello without effort after programming the tentacles to anticipate scoops and spoon feed him.
Sol doesn't feel up to getting up? Simply cast the spell and get the tentacles to puppeteer his body up while brushing his teeth.
Grasp of Hadar to conveniently grab a pen for writing assignment or turning on and off light switches.
Blink in and out of clothes without having to bother meticulously putting them on.
Sleep to well, sleep.
l've also had thoughts about taking the Seed of Genesis.. and then trading it with Bible class for something equivalent, should we choose.
They reportedly also have the analyst specialists, they could help crack the cube or glean it's use. And if it has Role synergy with potentially the entire Bible class because of the Genesis aspect.. They might let us pull favours or negotiate something like the Staff of Moses.
I bring up Bible class also because they and their world will no longer be available to us next year.
Thoughts on Vision:
Vision's weakness sense would work itself so well with our other aspects. Power and creativity is all well and good. But you gotta know where to aim. And how to direct the arcane might.
It feels like a perfect marriage of Sol's architecture knowledge with other Magician aspects.
We have committed to hard levelling architecture. I'd really like to see more practical effects of this - in combat and out of combat.
So far only direct application of Architecture we got offered is the aura sensing and the string of fate thing from different Roles.
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[X] Plan May you have Eyes..
-[X] Aspect: Vision
-[X] Artifact: The Revolver
-[X] Artifact: The Brass Cube
-[X] Loan Penny the Revolver.
Okay so I'm cool with this plan now that some more explication into Vision has been given. Subtle Hypnosis is pretty useful but what I'm far more interested in is perceiving weaknesses in structures because that is insanely potent especially with all of Sol's bullshit.
Revolver is insanely powerful given that it is basically a kryptonite bullet to anything and has a stand still compulsion. Giving it to Penny for the adventure will be good since it plays into the whole King of Magi Role and Penny's skillset and Justice Role. Long term Sol learning how to make extra bullets will be great because making kryptonite bullets that apply to anything is insanely powerful.
Brass Cube is something I'm really interested in because it can lead to Sol having his own world. Sure it'll be a big time sink but having your own world is worth it both for the world itself and the learning Sol will get out of it. It's also a really good place to make a Sanctum.
-[X] Aspect: Vision
-[X] Artifact: The Revolver
-[X] Artifact: The Brass Cube
-[X] Loan Penny the Revolver.
Okay so I'm cool with this plan now that some more explication into Vision has been given. Subtle Hypnosis is pretty useful but what I'm far more interested in is perceiving weaknesses in structures because that is insanely potent especially with all of Sol's bullshit.
Revolver is insanely powerful given that it is basically a kryptonite bullet to anything and has a stand still compulsion. Giving it to Penny for the adventure will be good since it plays into the whole King of Magi Role and Penny's skillset and Justice Role. Long term Sol learning how to make extra bullets will be great because making kryptonite bullets that apply to anything is insanely powerful.
Brass Cube is something I'm really interested in because it can lead to Sol having his own world. Sure it'll be a big time sink but having your own world is worth it both for the world itself and the learning Sol will get out of it. It's also a really good place to make a Sanctum.
- Location
- Louisiana
I noticed something looking at the Genesis blurb. The final line states "The world you'll make has the potential to be so much more." Combined with the fact that the Educator seem memetically resistant to even looking at the cube, I think that Genesis might give us a world beyond even the Educators capacity. A world with potential beyond what he is capable of creating, that we are free to craft to our own specifications. Our perfect sanctum, with organically built artifacts catered to whatever theme we like. No one to contest them.
It seems to be almost orthogonal to architecture as well, which tells me this is definitely not replicable without the cube. Genesis is a one time opportunity with borderline limitless potential when we unlock its contents.
It seems to be almost orthogonal to architecture as well, which tells me this is definitely not replicable without the cube. Genesis is a one time opportunity with borderline limitless potential when we unlock its contents.
Magical_Duck
The One Who Quacks
- Location
- A Pond
- Pronouns
- Duck
[X] Plan Mystery Gun
- [X] Aspect: Vision
- [X] The Revolver
- [X] The Brass Cube
"Quack"
- [X] Aspect: Vision
- [X] The Revolver
- [X] The Brass Cube
"Quack"
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Am I correct in the assumption that this is basically May You Have Eyes without loaning the revolver?
Magical_Duck
The One Who Quacks
- Location
- A Pond
- Pronouns
- Duck
Cool
[X] Plan May you have Eyes..
[X] Plan Mystery Gun
Since the Necronomicon is guaranteed (and I really think it's a good idea, it's THE Tome of Eldritch Lore, even incomplete is bound to hold lots of knowledge and reputation monies), I feel justified in pursuing Gun+MysteryBox. Gun provides a good short-term combat solution, allowing us to focus levelling on progression and utility powers. And if MysteryBox is some sort of creation catalyst, it's gonna be good.
Now for the Aspect, I like Vision the most. Transgression I dislike because even if it can be channelled into harmless stuff I'd like our morality to remain our. Eldritch is interesting, but it's mostly enchancement of existing power. Vision provides new capabilities, can be relatively easily leveraged for conceptual magic and has interesting potential for combinations with other powers: crafting a scrying artefacts, adding a hallucinatory component to Destroyer defences, etc. Also, it might help us next time we end up in Judas situation - 'dark truths' feel like exactly the thing you need to determine if someone is manipulating your pity or not.
[X] Plan May you have Eyes..
[X] Plan Mystery Gun
Since the Necronomicon is guaranteed (and I really think it's a good idea, it's THE Tome of Eldritch Lore, even incomplete is bound to hold lots of knowledge and reputation monies), I feel justified in pursuing Gun+MysteryBox. Gun provides a good short-term combat solution, allowing us to focus levelling on progression and utility powers. And if MysteryBox is some sort of creation catalyst, it's gonna be good.
Now for the Aspect, I like Vision the most. Transgression I dislike because even if it can be channelled into harmless stuff I'd like our morality to remain our. Eldritch is interesting, but it's mostly enchancement of existing power. Vision provides new capabilities, can be relatively easily leveraged for conceptual magic and has interesting potential for combinations with other powers: crafting a scrying artefacts, adding a hallucinatory component to Destroyer defences, etc. Also, it might help us next time we end up in Judas situation - 'dark truths' feel like exactly the thing you need to determine if someone is manipulating your pity or not.
Rihaku
The Internet
Our baseline capabilities due to our Role are already fully broad - spellcasting already provides divination including all forms of information gathering, mental offense, etc. Vision merely buffs that narrow component of magic while Eldritch makes all our spells stronger, including information-gathering spells.
It's possible that Vision's limited scope will make it more efficient for its purview, but voting Vision for 'new capabilities' is incorrect. We already have access to every magical feat under KoM, that's why it was 25 SC; what we lack is efficient stacking of Aspects that cover Arcanum's full remit, which is necessary for Solomon to be powerful enough to matter against the likes of the Shining Prince, Metaphysician, etc. Eldritch would give us that.
It's possible that Vision's limited scope will make it more efficient for its purview, but voting Vision for 'new capabilities' is incorrect. We already have access to every magical feat under KoM, that's why it was 25 SC; what we lack is efficient stacking of Aspects that cover Arcanum's full remit, which is necessary for Solomon to be powerful enough to matter against the likes of the Shining Prince, Metaphysician, etc. Eldritch would give us that.