The God Diversion

[Shard]

[] Idea: The Tarot Spread

Theme: Cooperation/Coordination

Not really a role per se, or at least not a role held by a single person:

The Tarot Cards are virtually never used individually. Always they are used in concert in concert with each other, often in spreads of 3 or more. With that in mind, one of the ethos of the Tarot Cards as a whole ought to be the conjunctional effects of the Tarot Cards in unison. The Death, for example, symbolizes Change, and the Judgement may represent the Truth, and The Tower that of Karmic Retribution. Put them together in a single spread, however, and everyone would agree that the End Times is due to arrive.

Likewise, the conjugation of The Hanged Man, The Justice and The Devil practically writes itself - Karmic retribution for the breaking of one's word, even those not strictly agreed to with The Devil's capabilities just as an example. The Star, The Judgement and The Death would well represent resurrecting the dead, even if none of the individual cards have such a theme individually - Combined the story told by the cards is implied.

 

[firefrog600]

[] Idea: The Tarot Spread

Theme: Cooperation/Coordination

Not really a role per se, or at least not a role held by a single person:

The Tarot Cards are virtually never used individually. Always they are used in concert in concert with each other, often in spreads of 3 or more. With that in mind, one of the ethos of the Tarot Cards as a whole ought to be the conjunctional effects of the Tarot Cards in unison. The Death, for example, symbolizes Change, and the Judgement may represent the Truth, and The Tower that of Karmic Retribution. Put them together in a single spread, however, and everyone would agree that the End Times is due to arrive.

Likewise, the conjugation of The Hanged Man, The Justice and The Devil practically writes itself - Karmic retribution for the breaking of one's word, even those not strictly agreed to with The Devil's capabilities just as an example. The Star, The Judgement and The Death would well represent resurrecting the dead, even if none of the individual cards have such a theme individually - Combined the story told by the cards is implied.

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This is nice good job I think there is a lot of argument to be made about team work and such with tarot cards. The fact that tarot cards come in a deck, that their rarely ever used on their own, that in certain pairs they represent specific things. Well all of these make sense to me. Any ideas on other possible patterns? Maybe something like the various potential teaching based roles being in one place? Like hermit, magician, and hierophant?

Any idea what all cards assembled for a single task represents if anything?

 

[JOEbob]

Like hermit, magician, and hierophant?

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the wise Hermit ascends the mountain; the Magician's principle is 'as above, so below'; and the HierophantI have to look up has a hand-gesture which represents 'a bridge between heaven and hell'- or, is himself a priestly figure and so a bridge between heaven and earth. So Hermit-Hierophant-Magician represents the transmission of the Hermit's wisdom and achievements to the Magician beneath by the conveyance of the Hierophant.

Hermit-Magician-Hierophant, though, has the Magician in the middle, instead; so the Hierophant cannot be a bridge. instead, the Magician serves as the bridge between the Hermit, above, and the Hierophant, below; since the Hermit is a wise and mystically-oriented man in isolation, and the Hierophant a mystically-oriented and possibly-wise man entrenched in society, the Magician conveys the isolation-associated insights of the Hermit to the Hierophant, or perhaps bestows the Hermit's resilience-to-social-bonds to the Hierophant, who is otherwise entrenched therein.

...both orders seem pretty similar, since both the Magician and Hierophant are symbolically 'bridges'.

(If you go by card meanings as gleaned from wikipedia, Hermit-Magician-Hierophant is Prudence/Treason - Energetic Potential - Social Bindings, which suggests a swift transition from a state of distrust or caution to a state of mutual trust and agreement. As a power, then, it would ease and make-trustworthy communication, enable binding commitments, or similar. )

 

[_brightwing]

[] Idea: The Lovers, Brothers

Analysis. Division and union. Choice. Choosing one's fate. Reception of inspiration. The Emperor and Empress. The Other. Contradiction.
Separation creates awareness of other. Binaries. Twins: mortal and immortal. The Price of the Fruit of knowledge.

The Sacred twins. When his mortal brother Castor dies Pollox petitioned to share his godhood, and was so granted giving rise to the Gemini.

Fundamental nature of the Brothers Tarot is thus "Solve et coagula": Solve, to break down, and coagula, to recombine, to higher form - an ascension to Divinity.

Primeval Transmutation: through secrets of Hermetic marriage and Solve et Coagula, the Gemini Twins wield the power to breaking down opposing elements – light and darkness, fire and water – reconvening them into their primeval, most highest form.

Division's Edge - One of the twin Swords of Zayin. The Cosmic Scaple, that severs conceptual bonds when invoked, like social bonds, memories, curses. Furthermore can divide abstract concepts, at a cost.
Starthreadder- The counterpart, The Needle that weaves back the fraying threads of the Cosmos. Ordo Ab Chao, holds the power to reverse entropy, for a time. Replenish life force of beings and systems, negate the effects of deterioration. Reverse conceptual decay, temporarily.

Arch of Revelation: Crossing the paired Swords of Zayin open a mystical arch of swords, that is the bridge over the Abyss between worlds. Distant places, realms, the metaphorical bridge of understanding is in grasp.

The Ape of Thoth - summon a towering entity cloaked in eerie hieroglyphs. It whispers discord, fears and insights. Weaving illusory shadows that distort reality. For a Price.

Limitations: The Twins can only embrace the powers of Gemini while together. Should the scales of Balance ever tip the Ape of Thoth will exact retribution. Arch of Relevation will bar the derelict Twins from entry.

Ordained by Fate, one of the twins will always die before journey's end.​

 

[Shard]

This is nice good job I think there is a lot of argument to be made about team work and such with tarot cards. The fact that tarot cards come in a deck, that their rarely ever used on their own, that in certain pairs they represent specific things. Well all of these make sense to me. Any ideas on other possible patterns? Maybe something like the various potential teaching based roles being in one place? Like hermit, magician, and hierophant?

Click to shrink...

Such a combination probably results in the ability to grant a tentative person new powers (ala the Metaphysicist), or some form of limited omniscience and/or precognition, perhaps. Or both.

Any idea what all cards assembled for a single task represents if anything?

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Given that the tarot in some ways represent The Heroes' Journey, as well as the different Aspects of Humans, and the World as a whole, at this point we're probably looking as gross metaphysical alteration, to the point of creating a new setting (or a large sub-setting within the God Diversion), and feats along those lines.

===

[] Idea: The Fool

So, while The Fool as present is that of untapped potential if they don't die early, I would raise several objections against such a characterization:

1) The idea of untapped potential itself. As presented, a Role that gains power 'over time' is simply inherently contradictory. If you (somehow) come into the fullness of your potential, how can you still represent The Fool? The concept simply contradicts itself in execution.
2) The sheer danger of a role with limited ability to defend itself + vast potential means that their risk of dying is excessive, especially if compounded upon by a propensity to 'Foolishness', and then further compounded by their potential danger if left unchecked or unexploited - That's basically suicidal!

Instead, I propose for the Fool:

The Fool should have domain of Innocence and Illusion. This represents The Fool's representation of the young youth with great untapped potential in a much more practicable way that doesn't contradict themselves.

In terms of powers, The Fool should thus have, broadly speaking:

1) Innocence - The inconceivability of harming a child, and their ability to speak unwanted truths unpunished, and the untarnished eyes of youth seeing reality without preconceptions.
2) Illusion - The trickery of youth. The ability to manifest highly believable illusions of virtually any kind, because who else than a child can spin believable stories at the drop of a hat, filled with details unending and spoken with uttermost confidence in spite of any contradiction inherent?

 

[firefrog600]

Such a combination probably results in the ability to grant a tentative person new powers (ala the Metaphysicist), or some form of limited omniscience and/or precognition, perhaps. Or both.

Given that the tarot in some ways represent The Heroes' Journey, as well as the different Aspects of Humans, and the World as a whole, at this point we're probably looking as gross metaphysical alteration, to the point of creating a new setting (or a large sub-setting within the God Diversion), and feats along those lines.

===

[] Idea: The Fool

So, while The Fool as present is that of untapped potential if they don't die early, I would raise several objections against such a characterization:

1) The idea of untapped potential itself. As presented, a Role that gains power 'over time' is simply inherently contradictory. If you (somehow) come into the fullness of your potential, how can you still represent The Fool? The concept simply contradicts itself in execution.
2) The sheer danger of a role with limited ability to defend itself + vast potential means that their risk of dying is excessive, especially if compounded upon by a propensity to 'Foolishness', and then further compounded by their potential danger if left unchecked or unexploited - That's basically suicidal!

Instead, I propose for the Fool:

The Fool should have domain of Innocence and Illusion. This represents The Fool's representation of the young youth with great untapped potential in a much more practicable way that doesn't contradict themselves.

In terms of powers, The Fool should thus have, broadly speaking:

1) Innocence - The inconceivability of harming a child, and their ability to speak unwanted truths unpunished, and the untarnished eyes of youth seeing reality without preconceptions.
2) Illusion - The trickery of youth. The ability to manifest highly believable illusions of virtually any kind, because who else than a child can spin believable stories at the drop of a hat, filled with details unending and spoken with uttermost confidence in spite of any contradiction inherent?

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I see your point but you know the fool doesn't need to go full on adventure immediately they do have stuff like training they can do. Asides a lot of the arguments about dying early is true of a lot of roles really. All of us are gonna start at not much better than a real human.

 

[firefrog600]

I already believe roles have an opportunity for growth based on their themes, training, and self development of the enrolled themselves. So I'd like to propose that as tarot cards are all open to interpretations so too can they develop based on the interpretations of their users. Such as a hermit going through self introspection leading to new powers, changes to themselves, or further developments or the magician pushing through their own will for greater skill. Both of those and any other role should be able to change for self betterment and self realizations. Possibly more than many other classes even.

 

[OctarineShrike]

I already believe roles have an opportunity for growth based on their themes, training, and self development of the enrolled themselves. So I'd like to propose that as tarot cards are all open to interpretations so too can they develop based on the interpretations of their users. Such as a hermit going through self introspection leading to new powers, changes to themselves, or further developments or the magician pushing through their own will for greater skill. Both of those and any other role should be able to change for self betterment and self realizations. Possibly more than many other classes even.

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All roles apparently have growth potential if you went through the three years assuming I interpreted this right.

However, I should warn you that without this course's Education, you'll not be able to call upon any of the so-called 'miracles' that I am said to teach. A full three-year attendance is mandatory to be capable of independent manifestation and development in such mores and disciplines.

Click to shrink...

 

[firefrog600]

All roles apparently have growth potential if you went through the three years assuming I interpreted this right.

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I'm more arguing that the tarot cards are even more open to interpretation than most and so should have some more leeway for growing and even actual change. Like not absolute or anything just more than average. Mostly cause by their nature tarot cards are basically a game of interpreting.

Edit: Also I don't think this is a default or anything just an argument that can be made to the educator for change, progression, and changing any possible fuckups we make.

 

[Otrovik]

All roles apparently have growth potential if you went through the three years assuming I interpreted this right.

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I read that as saying that without the full three years you wouldn't be able to do anything, regardless of whether you were able to do things before the three years were up.

That is to say, you could possess the full range of your abilities the moment you got them-but lose them if you dropped out.

 

[firefrog600]

I read that as saying that without the full three years you wouldn't be able to do anything, regardless of whether you were able to do things before the three years were up.

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Yeah nah two things that prove thats untrue first of all there are theme worlds for each class that they can enter and we can even enter our upper classmens theme world if we get a permission slip and lots of effort. The ancient greece class allegedly defeated the primordials in their theme world so they definitely had power. Second someone on discord asked if an early graduation is possible and word of birdsie yes the metaphysicist got out half a year earlier so 30 months into class and the metaphysicist said they could if they wanted leave a whole year early. But said they stayed for the resource extraction from the platonic realms as in the philosophy theme world.

Though you did say regardless so really the only evidence is the second thing.

 

[Andre Chaos]

[] Idea: [Temperance - Statue]

Permanency: With this ability, you can bestow everlasting qualities upon suitable objects, impose permanency on them. You have the power to make illusions permanent, make fire or ice endure indefinitely, render items resistant to damage while maintaining their shape, or even freeze someone's soul, making them unchanging. However, the complexity and size of the permanence you wish to create determine the waiting period before you can use this ability again.

Set in Stone: This ability freezes your body and personality in a perpetual state of perfection. Any external influences will encounter resistance, as your unwavering constancy prevails. While you can still acquire new knowledge, you cannot fully evolve as a person or alter your physical form. Basic human needs such as breathing or eating are unnecessary for you. You become like a statue, embodying a specific moment of your existence, forever frozen in flawless form.​

 

[JOEbob]

Yeah nah two things that prove thats untrue first of all there are theme worlds for each class that they can enter and we can even enter our upper classmens theme world if we get a permission slip and lots of effort. The ancient greece class allegedly defeated the primordials in their theme world so they definitely had power. Second someone on discord asked if an early graduation is possible and word of birdsie yes the metaphysicist got out half a year earlier so 30 months into class and the metaphysicist said they could if they wanted leave a whole year early. But said they stayed for the resource extraction from the platonic realms as in the philosophy theme world.

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That just suggests that an extremely exceptional person who absorbed two extra roles is something of an exception, not that this rule can't be relied on for others, no?

 

[Otrovik]

Yeah nah two things that prove thats untrue first of all there are theme worlds for each class that they can enter and we can even enter our upper classmens theme world if we get a permission slip and lots of effort. The ancient greece class allegedly defeated the primordials in their theme world so they definitely had power. Second someone on discord asked if an early graduation is possible and word of birdsie yes the metaphysicist got out half a year earlier so 30 months into class and the metaphysicist said they could if they wanted leave a whole year early. But said they stayed for the resource extraction from the platonic realms as in the philosophy theme world.

Though you did say regardless so really the only evidence is the second thing.

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Neither of those things respond to my point.

I was simply saying that whether or not all classes have the potential for growth(as OctarineShrike asserted)it was not stated in that excerpt.

 

[_brightwing]

New Compiled Index Doc (Rearranged)

Only the doc upto date

Fghubyygvb - Hermit blurb

JustGazzer - The Cartomancer - The Fates

Deathstorm50 - The World, Reversed ; [Suit of Pentacles]

Lealope - The World: Curtain Call ; The Hermit: Mind Over Matter

GenericName - The Magician vancian

_brightwing - The Magician, Trismegistus ; The Pagan Devil ; The Hanged Man ; The Lovers, Brothers

Rihaku - The Magician - King of Magi ; The World - Dungeon Master

Fghubyygvb Wheel of Fortune - Bringing Predestination

manowargs - Hermit - A Man is an Island

Digmata - The Shining Star - Smiling Through the Trials

Digmata - The Reverse Devil - Breaking through Decadence

Mithrill - The Magician - King of Magi Argument

Pyrurge - The Tower - Pride Before a Fall

ImDead1ns1de - [The Star - A Guiding Light]

Questionable - The High Priestess - Keeper of Secrets ; Judgement - Judge Dredd

ImDead1ns1de - The Wheel - An Endless Procession]

Digmata - The Upright Smiling Sun - Hero of Innocence ; The Upright Moon - Wary Wanderer

GenericName - [The Chariot - Ride to Victory]

Andre Chaos - [The Devil - Tempter of Hell]

Andre Chaos - [The Strength - Unyielding Lion]

Andre Chaos - [Eight of Pentacles - Star Pupil]

Andre Chaos - [The Lovers - Conjoined Twins]

Pyrurge - Death - Inevitable Transformation

ImDead1ns1de - Fate Seeker - To Question The Future]

Andre Chaos - [Fortune Teller]

JOEbob - Hermit (Generalised)

Pyrurge - The Emperor - Authority of The King

Otrovik - Death - All Roads Lead To Rome

Shard - The Tarot Spread

Shard - The Fool

Andre Chaos - Temperance - Statue

Andre Chaos - The Chariot - Gilded Path

Tyrant_Rayne - The Moon - Ephemeral Wonderland

Andre Chaos - [The Moon - Artist]

Deathstorm50 - The Suit of Pentacles]

ImperatorV - [The Empress - Princess of Life]

Andre Chaos - Ace of Swords - Swordsman

ThatGuyWithIdeas - The Hierophant - A Wise Counsel From the Past

Digmata - Upright Justice- The Bullet Piercing Falsehood

firefrog600 - Minor Arcana Summons

Andre Chaos - Death - Inevitability

JOEbob - Raksha

_brightwing - Hierophant, Serpent and the Dove

Andre Chaos - The Magician - True Alchimist

ArcanaVitae - The Hermit - The Honored One

_brightwing - The Fool (lore post)​

Compiled Google Doc

(Updated till ImperatorV - [The Empress - Princess of Life])


So far we have 4 Hermits, 3 Worlds. 3 magicians, 2 Stars, 3 Devils, 2 Lovers, 2 Deaths, 3 Moons, 2 Chariots, 2 Wheels, 2 Fools
1 of Emperor, Empress, Hanged Man, Tower, High Priestess, Judgement, Sun, Strength, Temperance, 2 of Minor Arcana, 5 Unique Roles

 

[firefrog600]

That just suggests that an extremely exceptional person who absorbed two extra roles is something of an exception, not that this rule can't be relied on for others, no?

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The way it was phrased kinda suggested (only maybe) others have left early too. But, yeah sure I mean we know hes an exceptional example afterall.

 

[Andre Chaos]

Also, what plan is winning? I am a bit confused about the situation.

 

[firefrog600]

Also, what plan is winning? I am a bit confused about the situation.

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uh magi but thats not really how this vote works as far as I know. Its more argument than votes. Which you know still means magi.

 

[JOEbob]

Also, what plan is winning? I am a bit confused about the situation.

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The Con Is On is the current winning Plan. it focuses item selections on immediate negotiation leverage to spend immediately in hopes of allowing the Loafer to argue more power into his role, including a write-in.
Simultaneously, we're in a debate-ish segment where people propose Tarot Interpretations and corresponding Powersets, and Birdsie will use our proposals and arguments as a basis to determine the powersets on offer; probably we'll get another vote after this concludes, where we can choose which role we want.

 

[WHISPER]

Anybody else feel like the Chariot should have like an actual golden Chariot that can fly or something?

 

[firefrog600]

Anybody else feel like the Chariot should have like an actual golden Chariot that can fly or something?

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If the user wants totally.

 

[WHISPER]

Yeah I think that would be cool to have especially because it's actually something physical besides like a vague power of getting stronger though victory.

That is not a critic of that by the way I just think it adds on to that pretty well.

 

[firefrog600]

Yeah I think that would be cool to have especially because it's actually something physical besides like a vague power of getting stronger though victory.

That is not a critic of that by the way I just think it adds on to it pretty well.

Click to shrink...

I think the chariot role could easily be seen as a role where the user inspires and finds ways to inspire too. Also drag people up into greatness.

 

[Andre Chaos]

Yeah I think that would be cool to have especially because it's actually something physical besides like a vague power of getting stronger though victory.

Click to shrink...

Maybe. You have some small idea to think about. Something physical...

---

[] Idea: [The Chariot - Gilded Path]

One Way Ticket: With this ability, you can select a destination or object within your surrounding space. Once you make your choice, your body starts to emit a radiant golden light and transforms into a beam, traveling towards the chosen destination. You have the option to determine a specific trajectory or set arbitrary conditions for your movement (such as avoiding individuals wearing red hats). Once transformed into a beam, you will travel at the speed of light towards your destination, obliterating anything obstructing the path of your beam.

Path to Victory: With this ability, you can establish a clear and concise goal in the form of a short sentence. The goal must be attainable within a 24-hour timeframe from when the decision is made. Once you select a goal and activate this power, your body and mind will be guided along the most direct and effortless path to accomplish it. You are unable to deviate from this path until you successfully achieve the designated goal. The path chosen will always be the one with the least resistance and simplest execution.​

 

[Tyrant_Rayne]

[ ] The Moon - Ephemeral Wonderland

Powers: Perception Manipulation - The Moon Grants its bearer the power to alter the perceptions of themselves or others. At base level it is only able to do simple and temporary alterations to no more than a handful of individuals such as making someone see a wall where there isn't one and vice versa or just rendering them blind for a few seconds. While animated illusions are possible at this level they lack many subtle aspects and can easily be seen through by the average person. However as the user grows in strength both the number of targets and the complexity of alterations grow. A skilled user can alter the perception of thousands and make them not just see but also hear, smell, taste, and even touch whatever the user desire for as long as they desire. While complex workings would still require some active adjustments from the user to keep them believable, simple adjustments can stay in effect for eternity unless interfered with. A person could have their taste permanently altered to make vanilla taste like chocolate, or to hear the howling of animals every night. It would not be wrong to say that the user could alter a persons very world into whatever shape or form they desire, from a beautiful dream filled with happiness and wonder, to a terrifying nightmare crawling with horrors.

Limitation: Self Delusion - The Moon is insidious in nature and does not spare its own user from its alterations. Every time it's power is used, the user suffers alterations to their own perception to a lesser extent. The changes are obvious at first and can easily be ignored. In addition through diligent practice of meditation the changes can be reversed by focusing on them. However if the user fails to regularly purge themselves of the alterations they begin to add up and become more and more real. Eventually the user will no longer be able to tell what is real and what isn't rendering meditation futile as they can no longer tell what needs purging. In the beginning, assuming the power is used every day in moderation, only 1 hour a day is needed to fix any alterations. However as the users powers and complexity of alterations grow so too does the time required to meditate. A skilled user that regularly creates complex working would need to meditate on average 8 hours a day and typically would need to start immediately after the alterations are done lest they wish to drown in madness. And a working that would drown the entire world into insanity? Even the most diligent of users with unshakable wills may not escape the looming madness. But in a world where madness is the norm would falling to it not be the same as becoming sane?