We should take the simple solution. Just kill them. Turning them from their destiny will take loads of time.
The God Diversion
- Thread starter Birdsie
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Classified
So, yeah, tentative action list, no especial order past the first:
1. Interaction: Mona - please interact with this woman before disaster strikes
2. Classwork - never stop the grind
3. Soteriology Lessons for the Inner Circle (Penny, Harrison, Damian, Mona) - put that Concord through Pedagogy to use, spread the love around
4. Architecture Lessons - are we still doing these? still a good investment if so; get closer to that EFB
5. Rulership - we're responsible for this place, and we're going to take it with us when we leave; investments in it are never wasted
6. Soteriology - we got Concord & Freedom, someone bought Solace, we could push for Life and complete the set if we felt it was safe
1. Interaction: Mona - please interact with this woman before disaster strikes
2. Classwork - never stop the grind
3. Soteriology Lessons for the Inner Circle (Penny, Harrison, Damian, Mona) - put that Concord through Pedagogy to use, spread the love around
4. Architecture Lessons - are we still doing these? still a good investment if so; get closer to that EFB
5. Rulership - we're responsible for this place, and we're going to take it with us when we leave; investments in it are never wasted
6. Soteriology - we got Concord & Freedom, someone bought Solace, we could push for Life and complete the set if we felt it was safe
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Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
Not sure why interaction is in quotation marks. Are you planning to do something untowards? How inappropriate!
The Fool is making a fool of himself as is fitting.
The Educator being disappointed in the Fool for dying is such a vibe. The "Death is quite literally your classmate!" line is hilarious.
Welp looks like the 4 Horsemen are the 4 Hoursegirls.
We should probably set up a body guard for the Educator.
Having 4 Attainments is really nice, I'm a little sad we didn't get a Life one since then we'd have once of each of the four categories.
I'm so proud of Solomon, this was only supposed to happen after graduation and managing to accomplish it by the second year is really impressive. I imagine it's due to a combination of [Freedom from Fate], becoming a True Architect, and personal growth on Solomon's level.
This is such a massive boost for Solomon as a person and a power.
Kinda inclined towards assess since killing someone on what they might do is shady as hell and approaching them off the bat is a bit of a risk.
Sol can do so much given his Kingdom and no longer being limited by Will.
Birdsie
Can we have a character sheet update? I'm kinda curious what's happened now that Sol has grown so much.
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
Hm, maybe in a few updates.
- Location
- 𐌂 ̢͎̩̤̲̙͓̑̀͂͒̀͆̏𐋏 ̛͏̫̚𐌀 ̛͉̥̩̤̰͈̂̅͒͊͟𐍈 ̣͛𐍃 ̡̅̈́
Hmm, do we have someone skillful and experienced to ask some advice for Horsemen situation? This is considered espionage. Maybe we have someone.
- Location
- washington
Not really for pushing for life as it'll almost definitely cost sc so its not a thing to do anytime soon.
Rihaku
The Internet
I know Approach has the most tantalizing blurb and is architecturally supported. However, after some discussion on Discord, we've got some salient information from Birdsie:
"I'm gonna drop the pretenses, come out and be straight with you as a QM:
Yeah, you can do that [kill the Horsemen outright]. I'm not even kidding; I'm not rolling for it. It'll simply work. There won't be a twist where they survive or pull a last-minute save, because they no longer have that option. The Antichrist won't suddenly turn the tables on you. Instead, you'll better your position, fortify your holdings, and be in a much better stance to counter-attack proactively with Metaphysician already doing work out there."
I don't want to spend another quest with a Horror King-like outerversal threat hanging over the verse. Let's just do comfy magic school things and then interact with Meta, the Olympian etc while also saving the Educator's life.
Outlined Tactics for Power Growth
*According to Meta, the Theme is a shadow cast upon the Architecture. Roles are shadow-puppet components of the Theme.
*The broader and deeper the shadow, the stronger the theme and all of its roles. The more central and well-developed the Role, the greater % of the theme it commands.
*The theme of the Tarot deck is similar to that of the Fates from EFB: through its prognostications, it defines outcomes. A fortune is read; it becomes the future. All else are mere trappings. Importantly, the means by which the outcome arises is not particularly relevant; it may even be better, more fit-to-theme, if the means is obscured or surprising.
*This obscuring quality, by which the means of fulfillment become arcane, is central both to our Theme (note the title the Educator uses for our class) and Solomon's role (whose chief Aspect is Arcanum)
*Now that Solomon has a command over the gross material aspects of his Role, the evocations and conjurations and so on, to reach a true breakthrough he must fully integrate Role and Theme; cause each to feed the other in a self-perpetuating cycle.
*World feeds Role: There is much to be gained from exploration but I feel that a character named Solomon with the Role of 'King of Magi' may eventually reap compounding or even exponential gains from wisely and successfully ruling a kingdom of magi. Especially if he uses his recently acquired magical pyramid scheme technique to create a giant magical pyramid scheme.
*Role feeds Theme: The Magician, by his nature and capabilities, is the perfect instrument by which the Deck may dictate an outcome, while keeping its means obscure. He is the channel that connects what ought with what is. Fitting for his Tarot number of I.
*Theme feeds Role: Who draws the Tarot? The fortune-teller. And what does the fortune-teller effectively profess to be? A type of magician. When he assumes his spot of primacy, Solomon can argue to (nonlethally) subsume the Fortune-Teller's Role and narrative salience into his own. Both do the same thing, after all: scry a future from the sea of possibilities, and then it mysteriously happens.
*Mona (the High Priestess, which governs secrets, with Tarot # of II) naturally contributes as well.
*Goal: Elevation. We are not particularly seeking to enhance the breadth of Solomon's magics; he is quite versatile enough. We want to raise their raw conceptual power so that his counterspells and banishments work first on the Olympian, then the Metaphysician, and finally the Enemy. If we can spend ~50% of Sol's XP on a powerful Technique that directly increases the raw intensity and conceptual elevation of his spells, do that.
[X] Plan Just Shoot Them
[X] Write In: If possible confirm/optimize with divination, then follow this plan: Slay Famine and Pestilence, imprison Death and War in a sub-dimension. Use all reasonable means to keep them inactive (sedation, bindings, time passing slower in the subdimension, synergies with Twilight/the Abyss, synergies with Damien's Role, Matrix-like simulated world etc) and incapable of interacting with the outside world. Penny should be able to aid in conceptually opposing the Horsemen: a Seraph bears greater authority.
[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
[X] Interaction: Have fun with Penny, Damien and Harrison. You deserve to celebrate your victory.
[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above.
[X] Classwork x3
[X] Exploration x2
[X] Rule x2
For his entire life, Solomon Lancaster was a slave to fate.
For his entire life, the Architecture mandated one thing, and he was powerless but to follow its course.
For his entire life, the suggestions of destiny were strictures ironclad.
The universe wants to see a thrilling tale of heartwrenching betrayal. It wants to see the Horsemen given center stage, their allegiances the weathervane that reveals the prevailing wind.
Now, here, as the fruit of all his labors; as the sum of all his works: Solomon Lancaster does not have to care what the universe wants to see.
Now, here, he can simply change fate. Now, here, he is finally free.
Let freedom ring.
"I'm gonna drop the pretenses, come out and be straight with you as a QM:
Yeah, you can do that [kill the Horsemen outright]. I'm not even kidding; I'm not rolling for it. It'll simply work. There won't be a twist where they survive or pull a last-minute save, because they no longer have that option. The Antichrist won't suddenly turn the tables on you. Instead, you'll better your position, fortify your holdings, and be in a much better stance to counter-attack proactively with Metaphysician already doing work out there."
I don't want to spend another quest with a Horror King-like outerversal threat hanging over the verse. Let's just do comfy magic school things and then interact with Meta, the Olympian etc while also saving the Educator's life.
Outlined Tactics for Power Growth
*According to Meta, the Theme is a shadow cast upon the Architecture. Roles are shadow-puppet components of the Theme.
*The broader and deeper the shadow, the stronger the theme and all of its roles. The more central and well-developed the Role, the greater % of the theme it commands.
*The theme of the Tarot deck is similar to that of the Fates from EFB: through its prognostications, it defines outcomes. A fortune is read; it becomes the future. All else are mere trappings. Importantly, the means by which the outcome arises is not particularly relevant; it may even be better, more fit-to-theme, if the means is obscured or surprising.
*This obscuring quality, by which the means of fulfillment become arcane, is central both to our Theme (note the title the Educator uses for our class) and Solomon's role (whose chief Aspect is Arcanum)
*Now that Solomon has a command over the gross material aspects of his Role, the evocations and conjurations and so on, to reach a true breakthrough he must fully integrate Role and Theme; cause each to feed the other in a self-perpetuating cycle.
*World feeds Role: There is much to be gained from exploration but I feel that a character named Solomon with the Role of 'King of Magi' may eventually reap compounding or even exponential gains from wisely and successfully ruling a kingdom of magi. Especially if he uses his recently acquired magical pyramid scheme technique to create a giant magical pyramid scheme.
*Role feeds Theme: The Magician, by his nature and capabilities, is the perfect instrument by which the Deck may dictate an outcome, while keeping its means obscure. He is the channel that connects what ought with what is. Fitting for his Tarot number of I.
*Theme feeds Role: Who draws the Tarot? The fortune-teller. And what does the fortune-teller effectively profess to be? A type of magician. When he assumes his spot of primacy, Solomon can argue to (nonlethally) subsume the Fortune-Teller's Role and narrative salience into his own. Both do the same thing, after all: scry a future from the sea of possibilities, and then it mysteriously happens.
*Mona (the High Priestess, which governs secrets, with Tarot # of II) naturally contributes as well.
*Goal: Elevation. We are not particularly seeking to enhance the breadth of Solomon's magics; he is quite versatile enough. We want to raise their raw conceptual power so that his counterspells and banishments work first on the Olympian, then the Metaphysician, and finally the Enemy. If we can spend ~50% of Sol's XP on a powerful Technique that directly increases the raw intensity and conceptual elevation of his spells, do that.
[X] Plan Just Shoot Them
[X] Write In: If possible confirm/optimize with divination, then follow this plan: Slay Famine and Pestilence, imprison Death and War in a sub-dimension. Use all reasonable means to keep them inactive (sedation, bindings, time passing slower in the subdimension, synergies with Twilight/the Abyss, synergies with Damien's Role, Matrix-like simulated world etc) and incapable of interacting with the outside world. Penny should be able to aid in conceptually opposing the Horsemen: a Seraph bears greater authority.
[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
[X] Interaction: Have fun with Penny, Damien and Harrison. You deserve to celebrate your victory.
[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above.
[X] Classwork x3
[X] Exploration x2
[X] Rule x2
For his entire life, Solomon Lancaster was a slave to fate.
For his entire life, the Architecture mandated one thing, and he was powerless but to follow its course.
For his entire life, the suggestions of destiny were strictures ironclad.
The universe wants to see a thrilling tale of heartwrenching betrayal. It wants to see the Horsemen given center stage, their allegiances the weathervane that reveals the prevailing wind.
Now, here, as the fruit of all his labors; as the sum of all his works: Solomon Lancaster does not have to care what the universe wants to see.
Now, here, he can simply change fate. Now, here, he is finally free.
Let freedom ring.
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- Location
- washington
Uh not debating the vote but like killing the horseman doesn't end the threat there is still the lamb?
Edit: Also could we maybe put some more stuff into there like trying to reason with the school for why we did this as a plus and maybe gathering their bodies for some ritual later to harm the lamb? It'll at least get my vote if you add those things and it doesn't actually change anything from what your doing.
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Rihaku
The Internet
As Birdsie said in Discord, "It'll stop the Educator dying which is one of the major conditions for an actual full invasion." No other path does so with nearly as much certainty.
But even if this were not an exceptionally wise and effective path (which the QM has confirmed it is), I would still vote for Solomon to do it. Because this is a satisfying conclusion to his initial character arc. Expressing his freedom from fate in the most direct and emphatic means possible is the perfect capstone to, and justification for, the conclusion of the Will mechanic.
- Location
- washington
Yeah, that's well and fine I'm just saying the lamb still exists even if we do this and whatever other threat I doubt this one action ends the whole threat. Also, I'm not saying don't do it I'm mostly fine with this way of doing it. But, like curb your expectations is basically what I'm saying I guess?
Also, I'm requesting if possible could you please add an addendum of some kind of informing people why we did this including the gothic class maybe utilizing our new powers over pedagogy to be more succinct and convincing. If only to not be a total mysterious cunt about things and freak out other students as much as we need to. Also gathering the bodies for a ritual to harm the lamb later if possible and maybe undoing what they did. Fairly sure what was said about undoing what they've done requires more than just killing them.
Edit: Also maybe what duck just said on discord.
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Rihaku
The Internet
I don't think that requires an addendum; the example scene Birdsie gave literally has Sol (briefly) explain his motives. Unless Birdsie says Sol will not inform anyone even post hoc by default, I think the post's word count is high enough as is.
Whilst I mostly agree with this plan, I feel we should replace classwork with adventuring as adventuring has so far always been better for xp than classwork, with the added benefit of non xp related rewards. Unless Birdsie has confirmed that being in year 2 will shift the balance more in favor towards classwork, though I believe he mentioned that adventuring will also benefit from the year change.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
[X] Plan: Summary Judgement
[X] Approach
-[X] Deliver an ultimatum to the Horsegirls. We know why they're here, so tell them precisely that and explain to their Class(with confirmation from the Educator) that they're literally assassins targeting the Educator. From there, determine if this is a situation where they know what they are, or if they've been made into Machurian agents of one stripe or another. Either way, assess if they can be turned or safely locked away to be harvested in rituals to use against the Antichrist's cause. If not, just kill them and be done with it.
[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
[X] Interaction: Have fun with Penny, Damien and Harrison. You deserve to celebrate your victory.
[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above.
[X] Classwork x4
[X] Rule x3
Changed my mind. An adjusted version of R's plan.
[X] Approach
-[X] Deliver an ultimatum to the Horsegirls. We know why they're here, so tell them precisely that and explain to their Class(with confirmation from the Educator) that they're literally assassins targeting the Educator. From there, determine if this is a situation where they know what they are, or if they've been made into Machurian agents of one stripe or another. Either way, assess if they can be turned or safely locked away to be harvested in rituals to use against the Antichrist's cause. If not, just kill them and be done with it.
[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
[X] Interaction: Have fun with Penny, Damien and Harrison. You deserve to celebrate your victory.
[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above.
[X] Classwork x4
[X] Rule x3
Changed my mind. An adjusted version of R's plan.
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- Location
- washington
If your using rihakus plan and saying follow the outlined tactics above maybe link to his plan instead of saying follow the outlined tactics above?
- Location
- washington
[X] Plan: Summary Judgement
I'm gonna vote on this for now on account I'm not sure I want to vote for rihakus plan. Also how it lets us extract benefits if we want to and I don't really think it's likely they can do much without their plot armor running when they're so weak right now. It also basically lets us murder them anyways and effectively doing rihakus plan with a caveat afterwards that we're surrendering surprise which birdsie said is like 1% more dangerous since we're the magician with preptime, true architecture, and freedom from fate.
I'm gonna vote on this for now on account I'm not sure I want to vote for rihakus plan. Also how it lets us extract benefits if we want to and I don't really think it's likely they can do much without their plot armor running when they're so weak right now. It also basically lets us murder them anyways and effectively doing rihakus plan with a caveat afterwards that we're surrendering surprise which birdsie said is like 1% more dangerous since we're the magician with preptime, true architecture, and freedom from fate.
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
-[X] Approach
--[X] Take the Horsemen under your wing, exercising Architecture to subvert their nascent Roles with the Soteriological principles of Life, Solace, Concord and Freedom corresponding with their opposing Roles as befits their Theme.
--[X] Conduct a kingdom spanning ritual to excise their Connections with the Adversary, teaching them through Pedagogy how to break free from their Fates. To choose another path.
-[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
-[X] Interaction: Coordinate with the Fearless Child to see how the tale of Horsemen of the Apocalypse can be rewritten to one of redemption.
-[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above, as applicable.
-[X] Classwork x3
-[X] Rule x3
-[X[ Rule - a single action dedicated for Approach
I want to for this quest, go for the 100 percent completion. We've speedrun literally all of Birdsie's quests so far through sheer excellence. I'd love to win and enjoy this setting some more.
Edit: added the Fearless Child Interaction
-[X] Approach
--[X] Take the Horsemen under your wing, exercising Architecture to subvert their nascent Roles with the Soteriological principles of Life, Solace, Concord and Freedom corresponding with their opposing Roles as befits their Theme.
--[X] Conduct a kingdom spanning ritual to excise their Connections with the Adversary, teaching them through Pedagogy how to break free from their Fates. To choose another path.
-[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
-[X] Interaction: Coordinate with the Fearless Child to see how the tale of Horsemen of the Apocalypse can be rewritten to one of redemption.
-[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above, as applicable.
-[X] Classwork x3
-[X] Rule x3
-[X[ Rule - a single action dedicated for Approach
I want to for this quest, go for the 100 percent completion. We've speedrun literally all of Birdsie's quests so far through sheer excellence. I'd love to win and enjoy this setting some more.
Edit: added the Fearless Child Interaction
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- Location
- washington
I like the idea but one a lot of people don't want to spend time on them and two it doesn't leave a lot of room for changing to murder part way through like ilbgar. Also if we're gonna do a ritual I'd try to include childrens stories for help as they have themes of redemption and happy endings so use some of their help to make a redemptive story possible through ritual, architecture, connections, and soteriomancy. Birdsie even said something like that would be possible but so many wanna go for murder so I wouldn't actually go for this plan as I don't think its feasible.
- Location
- Where Jokes Die
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
Or: That time Sol had to adopt the four pillars of the apocalypse incarnate as his daughters and promise to homeschool them before he started spending time with his wife.
Or: That time Sol had to adopt the four pillars of the apocalypse incarnate as his daughters and promise to homeschool them before he started spending time with his wife.
- Location
- 𐌂 ̢͎̩̤̲̙͓̑̀͂͒̀͆̏𐋏 ̛͏̫̚𐌀 ̛͉̥̩̤̰͈̂̅͒͊͟𐍈 ̣͛𐍃 ̡̅̈́
Well, I will take... This one!
Edit: Although, shotgun to the face sounds fun.
Edit 2: I was said, this way is workable and will lead to the most amounts of chaos. Sounds doable.
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
-[X] Approach
--[X] Take the Horsemen under your wing, exercising Architecture to subvert their nascent Roles with the Soteriological principles of Life, Solace, Concord and Freedom corresponding with their opposing Roles as befits their Theme.
--[X] Conduct a kingdom spanning ritual to excise their Connections with the Adversary, teaching them through Pedagogy how to break free from their Fates. To choose another path.
-[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
-[X] Interaction: Coordinate with the Fearless Child to see how the tale of Horsemen of the Apocalypse can be rewritten to one of redemption.
-[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above, as applicable.
-[X] Classwork x3
-[X] Rule x3
Edit: Although, shotgun to the face sounds fun.
Edit 2: I was said, this way is workable and will lead to the most amounts of chaos. Sounds doable.
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
-[X] Approach
--[X] Take the Horsemen under your wing, exercising Architecture to subvert their nascent Roles with the Soteriological principles of Life, Solace, Concord and Freedom corresponding with their opposing Roles as befits their Theme.
--[X] Conduct a kingdom spanning ritual to excise their Connections with the Adversary, teaching them through Pedagogy how to break free from their Fates. To choose another path.
-[X] Interaction: Get to know Mona better.
-[X] Interaction: Coordinate with the Fearless Child to see how the tale of Horsemen of the Apocalypse can be rewritten to one of redemption.
-[X] For Classwork and Rule, follow the Outlined Tactics above, as applicable.
-[X] Classwork x3
-[X] Rule x3
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[X] Plan: Summary Judgement
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
[X] Plan: Save Our Girls
Edited to vote for literally every plan more interesting than just shooting them.
[X] Plan Rewrite the Tale
[X] Plan: Save Our Girls
Edited to vote for literally every plan more interesting than just shooting them.
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Rihaku
The Internet
The tactics pursue a fundamental breakthrough in our Role through understanding and application of theory, rather than incremental power through worldly exploitation. And we did just change years so there is merit to a solid ground. Still, it probably won't hurt and does have potential upside to switch to a more balanced approach, so I'll do that - perhaps 3 classwork 2 exploration 2 rule. We are not Solomon fully settled into rulership, after all - merely a youth.