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The Galaxy is Flood, Not Food

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questioningmeme said:
Tide is trying to resolve a fundamental problem with human beuracracy.
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I mean, IRL significant strides have been made towards streamlining bureaucracy, with Estonia leading the charge.
This video here explains how that works.

View: https://youtu.be/I5krZBe0Dck

So, in short the solution is to rip out the entire pre-existing structure, and then rebuild it from the ground up. Focusing on education (and wouldn't it be really useful if people could just share knowledge) building and distributing technology (if only there were a bunch of factories around which could be repurposed for that), all executed by a well thought out plan which is rigerously followed (if only there was a being capable of making sure of that).

So Tide actually has every chance of dealing with the problems here.
 
Ironic how the only person that could actually help Tide with the bureaucratic mess actively hates him.

As for how or if Tide is going to fix Kalak, he might have somewhat of a chance to do so, as the last time he tried he didn't have a Keymind, and now he has two of them. Plus it makes sense for Nurgle corruption to be a bitch to remove given he's the "Plague Papa". Get those voices in Kalak's head to stfu long enough to spit facts and a Logic Virus into his head and Tide at the very least put Kalak on the right track.
 
DeusVult said:
I mean, IRL significant strides have been made towards streamlining bureaucracy, with Estonia leading the charge.
This video here explains how that works.

View: https://youtu.be/I5krZBe0Dck

So, in short the solution is to rip out the entire pre-existing structure, and then rebuild it from the ground up. Focusing on education (and wouldn't it be really useful if people could just share knowledge) building and distributing technology (if only there were a bunch of factories around which could be repurposed for that), all executed by a well thought out plan which is rigerously followed (if only there was a being capable of making sure of that).

So Tide actually has every chance of dealing with the problems here.
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That's kinda the problem isn't it?

Tide doesn't want to take away Human free-will.

For him to do that he must take the mantle and become those people's Emperor.

And even then, streamlining a galactic beuracracy with 10,000 years worth of rot, coordinating literal planets worth of people.

Is literally galactic distances level of difference from Estonia.

Even if Tide has all the tools at his disposal, that is still a millenia worth of effort at bare minimum.

No matter what, he'll need to crack the mother of all eggs to make that kinda of galactic omelette.

And that's the thing he needs advice with.
 
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I think the main problem at hand here isn't streamlining bureaucracy, but keeping said bureaucracy from trying to cull the population through starvation, imprisonment, and police killings.

This does actually seem like the sort of thing that could be fixed by brainwashing or replacement with less homicidal officials, at least in the short term.

The large-scale problem isn't just inefficiency and excessive cruelty in the Administratum, though. The problem is the Imperium, including the Astra Militarum, the Ecclesiarchy, the Arbites, and pretty much every other Imperial government branch. How do you fix all that without mass murder or brainwashing? Heck if I know.
 
MilitantBird said:
I think the main problem at hand here isn't streamlining bureaucracy, but keeping said bureaucracy from trying to cull the population through starvation, imprisonment, and police killings.
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Then honestly he's being pedantic over nothing.

Ellen, Purilla, Vidriov, and even Steve from accountant logging down every person who are surviving instead of dying would tell him the same thing.

Just off the dumbasses up top who are ruining everything and replace them with reasonable and competent people.

99% of the time, it works 100% of the time for the Imperium.

Hell isn't he already doing that with his defacto owned Hive?
 
Jackson Fox said:
Tide is the raccoon living under the Chaos Gods' porch, occasionally sneaking into their house and rummaging around their pantry to steal their food.
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With this comment here I remember that "eating a Tzeentchian daemon thing" so...

Can he go fishing in the Warp?

Lure unaligned/minor daemons (something like Furies) near the entrance to his domain, club them over the head and proceeded to nom them.

Edit: mixed up Furies (the unaligned minor daemon) with Harpies (a nid unit).
 
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questioningmeme said:
Just off the dumbasses up top who are ruining everything and replace them with reasonable and competent people.
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Unfortunately, replacing a few bad apples doesn't solve structural problems. If it did, "The Banality of Evil" wouldn't really be a thing.
Stuff like this happens across all the millions of worlds in the Imperium, and its not because all the relevant positions just so happened to be staffed with personally despicable people.
Its like what we saw with the Sister, these institutions cultivate a callous disregard for life by design. If someone does slip through the net, retaining some extraordinary adherence to principle, the system will either sideline them, or remove them (often fatally, in the Imperium's case)
 
Jackson Fox said:
The light reached down and wrapped itself around him with a gentle embrace, one that, even through the screams for carnage, evoked a long-lost memory of a woman with an animal's head holding her child and weeping, not out of sadness or hate, but out of love and joy. Limbs that were not his own struggled in the grip, thrashed, but this embrace was unbreakable.
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>"im not the messiah"-said tide while saving the abhuman from the sinful corruption of his soul,on a loving embrace
 
The main problem with the Imperium's burocracy isnt even really the corruption. Its the sheer SIZE of the thing. Planets dont disappear due to a rounding error due to incompetence or malice, they do so because a single planet is literally a rounding error. Thats not a problem that you can fix by snapping the necks of a few greedy aristocrats. Now, getting rid of the incompetence and corruption would be a good start, but the entire thing really needs to be revamped and I'm not sure that that would actually help since the problems come from the size of the Imperium itself.
 
Jackson Fox said:
Tide is the raccoon living under the Chaos Gods' porch, occasionally sneaking into their house and rummaging around their pantry to steal their food.
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Now I have the image of the Four being housemates and a half-awake Tzeentch going to the pantry to get his morning cereal only to find a raccoon-sized Tide eating through the cereal. They look at each other dead in the eye for a second before a merry chase ensures with Khorne joining in with his shotgun and gleefully screaming alongside Nurgle throwing out homemade chemicals. All the while Slaanesh watches from the couch, hammered from last night's drug-fueled rave.
 
>there is inbuilt corruption/inneficiency (as a way to stop chaos)
>there is inbuilt corruption (as a flaw that either grew over time,or was already there,but tolerated by the emperor who thought he would have time to reform it)
>there is the sheer size of the administration causing lagging on choices
>there is natural human error causing cascading mistakes

tide can handle the chaos part,by offering active protection from chaos,it means you can get rid of a lot of the inbuilt inneficiencies
the other issues can be handled by mortals

tide with his superior intel,can allow the right people to outmanouver their political opponents

>avoid a assasination attempt here
>meet the right person with the right connexions there
>go the right location at the right time to gain intel
>use the right words on speeches

tide can simply screen the political players that are both skilled and moral,and give them MASSIVE buffs and passive guidance so they can achieve their goals without much issue



he already did a test run of this "use passive manipulation to insert figure head on leadership positions" with his puppets and the colonel
he can just do it again,but replacing puppets with actual people this time
 
There's also a great problem with compartmentalising after the Heresy a lot of measures were put in place to prevent any one department gaining too much power. This means that there are dozens of groups all responsible for overlapping duties who don't talk to each other.

Add in the Imperiums hatred of AI and advanced computer systems making so much of the info is literally written on parchment as a means of storage.

Lately GW has been toning down alot of the truly dumb stuff about the Imperium, (changing the IG from an army of mooks capable only of human wave tactics, to highly skilled professional soldiers, who are just outmatched by what they face for example) so I would treat the worst of what we hear as simply rumours and cases of actual malice, rather than the standard.
 
eumarthan said:
Just put him through some happy gas and maybe do some rewiring of the brain to help him. It would be funny if the Chaos legion face off against a Kalak that is calm and loyal to the Flood. They would shit themselves once they know that even Chaos would get turned.
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Tranquil Fury?

And, I'd have to fully agree. Someone that went through an insanity like that (partially due to the Primarch-to-Son soul bond FORCING it), and was pulled free to sanity??

Yeah...
He'd have some serious issues with Chaos he'd want to work through. Mostly involving them dying in population sizes best numbered in planets.
 
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  • Apocrypha
    • The primary issue with the Administratum is that it is run by humans and humans just cannot keep track of everything that needs to be kept track of in an entire galactic empire.

    Normally the solution to this would be AI, but that's not really an option for a multitude of reasons.

    questioningmeme said:
    Hell, I don't think anyone but Roboute and Big E himself can give an answer to that one.
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    Even they don't have a real solution, that's why the Administratum exists in the first place; it was the best solution Emps was able to come up with.

    That said, Rowboat makes it pretty clear that the Administratum ran much more smoothly in his day and has accrued a lot of bullshit in the ten thousand years he was snoozing.
     
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    Neruz said:
    The primary issue with the Administratum is that it is run by humans and humans just cannot keep track of everything that needs to be kept track of in an entire galactic empire.
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    What they lack is the most reliable STC called Microsoft Excel that Roboute Guilliman has it with him and it allowed him to rule his 500 worlds prior to reunion with Big E during the Great Crusade. And the said STC is locked within Guilliman's personal room that had been made into a sacred shrine no one but the Primarch can enter which Guilliman was in deep stasis for 10,000 years.

    "HOLY FACK?! PIVOT TABLES!" - some Administratum lady probably.
     
    Warmachine375 said:
    What they lack is the most reliable STC called Microsoft Excel that Roboute Guilliman has it with him and it allowed him to rule his 500 worlds prior to reunion with Big E during the Great Crusade. And the said STC is locked within Guilliman's personal room that had been made into a sacred shrine no one but the Primarch can enter which Guilliman was in deep stasis for 10,000 years.

    "HOLY FACK?! PIVOT TABLES!" - some Administratum lady probably.
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    Nah, Gulliman doesn't need that STC because he can run Excel in his brain, that's why he's so good at administration but is completely incapable of teaching his skills to anyone else.
     
    Neruz said:
    Nah, Gulliman doesn't need that STC because he can run Excel in his brain, that's why he's so good at administration but is completely incapable of teaching his skills to anyone else.
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    Ah true but Guilliman did make his own STC with Microsoft Excel so that his sons, the Ultramarines can have their work much easier and more efficient. Sadly, they are more concerned of their Primarch in mortal danger which he was in stasis, placed all of his stuff including the STC at his room that was made into a shrine and follow the Codex Astartes like a Gospel.

    Cue to Papa Ultrasmurf Facepalm when he finds out after finally waking up.
     
    DeusVult said:
    I mean, IRL significant strides have been made towards streamlining bureaucracy, with Estonia leading the charge.
    This video here explains how that works.

    View: https://youtu.be/I5krZBe0Dck

    So, in short the solution is to rip out the entire pre-existing structure, and then rebuild it from the ground up. Focusing on education (and wouldn't it be really useful if people could just share knowledge) building and distributing technology (if only there were a bunch of factories around which could be repurposed for that), all executed by a well thought out plan which is rigerously followed (if only there was a being capable of making sure of that).

    So Tide actually has every chance of dealing with the problems here.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...


    Thank for the good stuff ! Also after I share with some authors (who at least have kingdom building fic or similar), some find it good here, of course some also find it problematic and do show other solution that doesn't need fully tear down here (at least in other setting that isn't warhammer 40k with Flood like the mc).
    + Br (who write cyberpunk 2077 fic): Being frank, going all digital with your state sounds like a critical point of failure and a security nightmare waiting to happen. That sounds like an actively bad idea no matter the potential efficiency returns.
    + Kar: All-digital anything is a big no no for me, sorry to say.

    Also, human bureaucracy is only bad when you allow for it to be a career, and when 'middle management' is allowed free reign to make more of itself. 'The purpose of the civil service is to serve the civil service' is what you need to prevent, and it's not so hard - just make it a requirement in perpetuity for the next boss/king/president/whatever to gut all (or at least some) of the fake jobs that came into existence during the prior administration(s) (i.e. the jobs that create more problems and drudge work in order to justify their own existence). Ideally, you would do this for shit laws as well.
    For bureaucrats, you want the minimal number of smart lazy people, because they'll actually come up with ways to improve efficiency.

    Ideally, make it a side job, or part OF the job, of the other 'castes' again. As in, kings, priests, warriors and commoners should all do their own accounting, like in the old days. If it's too much, give everyone secretaries, and then purge the legal system whenever it becomes impossible for a single lawyer to handle your shit.

    It won't prevent all bullshit, but it WILL prevent the bureaucracy tyranny we're in now.
    .
    "give everyone secretaries" being facetious, I'm against mandating that people do anything they don't choose for themselves, in case it wasn't obvious :V.
     
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