- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
...okay, so in our rush to make it happen, we might have skipped the animal trials and went straight to experimenting on our
Tacit Ronin vs. The World II: KRAUN Jewels
- Thread starter Fyrstorm
- Start date
...
I choose to assume our scientists did, in fact, test it on animals before it was brought up as something we could utilize on humans.
I choose to assume our scientists did, in fact, test it on animals before it was brought up as something we could utilize on humans.
Fyrstorm
Gun Waifu Extraordinaire
- Location
- 'Straya
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Don't be ridiculous. You're not nearly vile/mad/exaggeratedly evil enough to experiment on your civilians.
Your science dudes vat-grew some tissue samples they got from Noah, and used those for tests.
(Of course, due to the fact that tissue masses aren't entirely alive, results on long-term Hybridisation side-effects are rather... let's say limited)
Your science dudes vat-grew some tissue samples they got from Noah, and used those for tests.
(Of course, due to the fact that tissue masses aren't entirely alive, results on long-term Hybridisation side-effects are rather... let's say limited)
Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
We really should research a way to mitigate negative side-effects, then. Or just bite the bullet and use the treatment already.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
On the other hand, if we just go full cybernetics, Ashley will end up as F!Raiden.
I must admit, this decision is harder than I expected.
HolyDragoon
Call Gespenst!
- Location
- Portugal
Well, a pons-assisted prosthetic sounds pretty metal, if you catch my drift...
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
Computer's in the shop, unfortunately. Once that's resolved, joining should commence.
Mobile mine-layers are on the ideas list, and have been for a while. Make the buggers work/move fast enough, and you basically get a portable minefield. We could have them prepare the battlefield for us, or set up minefields in our wake to cover a backwards advance.
Of course, admittedly, I originally got the idea (circuitously) from the naval version, which has less to worry about in-terms of burying the mines. I still think it could probably be made to work, though.
Edit: For best results, we may want to use something like our acid-shells, rather than raw explosives or shrapnel, to do the damage.
If we're going to bury explosives in our metaphorical lawn semi-permenently, might I suggest we rig them more like a remote-control demolitions charge, instead of like landmines? An electronic igniter would be less likely to accidentally go off.
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Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
Minelayers for the ground sounds... difficult. Very difficult, unless you don't care about actually burying them. Naval ones are much easier and are known technology that just need to be upscaled and modernized for Kaiju-scale warfare and thus much easier to make.
Another option is making suicide drones, or more accurately Suicide Bits, to be deployed either as curtains to block or direct enemy movement or as normal guided Bits. And using Acid is certainly the better option, otherwise we'd need to make them a lot bigger to ensure they actually pack a punch.
That's definitely a good idea. Minefields are a nightmare to disarm properly in real-life, just imagining the sort of accident that might happen with K-scale mines is making me shiver.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
If we're using them to cover our asses while we execute a backward advance? Possibly not. Their purpose in that case is more to slow the enemy down than anything else. And we might be able to get away with just camouflaging the cases. Maybe have the mine-layers spray paint them before deployment, with the color based on where they're planted.
Plus, to quote one of my favorite manga series, "If you can make your opponent think that there are traps, you can disable a large part of their ability to make judgements." Just the prospect of traps completely changes how people approach a scenario, tactically. It makes the hesitate, and delays them as they look for the traps and disable/go around them. That would give us more time to shoot st them, before they close, which seems worthwhile to me.
Of course, the rather obvious solution to this is flying Kaiju.
Hm. I was already considering their usefulness for making walls appear, but using them for bombing could also work pretty well. We could potentially have them burrow into, or even through, the ground, then explode where and when we want them to.
They'd also seriously screw with our ability to reposition and freely travel through the battlefield, if we weren't just remotely detonating them. Mind you, it has it's flaws, including not working against sneak attacks, and being dependant on human input. Some of that could be solved by wiring them into the sensor grid, and putting in place an automated protocol for detonating the relevant explosives without human input. Would need to work out the details, though.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Which one?
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
World Trigger. Which is, sadly, on indefinite hiatus. It's good, and has some neat weapons (mostly thinking of one in particular, called Scorpion). The combat has a lot of interesting aspects to it, and is a bit more nuanced than in a lot of manga I read. Does a nice mix of group tactics and solo fights, IMO, though I'd say group-tactics get more of a focus, overall.
Edit: The quote is actually a quote itself. It's a high-ranking Sniper quoting his teams' captain, who is a Trapper, (I.E. someone who only uses traps to attack), while analyzing a practice match. Apparently, it works pretty well for them, because the two of them are the only members of their team, and yet they're ranked second in the list of the A-Rank, top-tier teams. It's not exactly an orthodox team makeup, either, since there are only two Trappers in the series, and one of them has yet to appear.
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Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
Well, if they're dimwitted enough to charge through trapped, dangerous terrain then they're going to take at least some damage and be that much easier to kill.
If they're smart enough to bypass the traps somehow, then we should have gained enough time and intel to reposition and intercept them properly.
If they're smart enough to bypass the traps and dangerous terrain and fast enough not to give us time to react, I doubt anything but a Jaeger or a team of Mark 0s would be able to engage and have a chance of victory.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
This. So much this. Plus, the original idea was to have something that could defend our conventionals from a Kaiju closing with them, so as to not suffer major losses. Traps help prevent that, either by weakening/killing the charging Kaiju, or by delaying it.
That said, correct me if I'm incorrect, but most of our losses of conventional units to Kaiju have been to ranged attacks, and not melee charges, yes? And we've already seen that the Hlin cannot entirely prevent this outcome. Might I suggest that either building more Hlins, or improving the Hlin's shields, is a higher priority?
Much as I love the idea of using of remote-detonated mines and mine-fields, we have a rather massive list of things to research and develop. One people seem to not be consulting all that often, which, given that I've been mostly dumping my new ideas on there, rather than in the thread, is a bit of a problem. I've got an interesting line of investigation on single-pilot Jaegers on there (or, rather, a hybrid system where an AI, derived from Jagdhund's OS, Drifts with a pilot), amongst other things.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Maybe mention when you've added stuff to the doc so people know to go look? I haven't been checking it regularly due to the seasonal hiatus we just had.
Edit: also it's hard to discuss the merits of certain ides in a doc, so it'd probably best if they got at least cursory mention in-thread.
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Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
Well, you're absolutely correct! But from what I understood of the original proposal, the situation that was originally meant to be adressed was one where the Kaiju is charging against and there isn't a Jaeger to stop it, be it because the Jaegers are busy with other Kaiju or because they're stationed in a city without a Jaeger available at the moment.
And we already do have an upgrade to the Hlin's defenses, just waiting to be implemented via an action. Building more of them is definitely a good idea too. I wonder how effective overlapping Barrier Shields would be... if we can even overlap them without weird shit happening, that is.
Fyrstorm
Gun Waifu Extraordinaire
- Location
- 'Straya
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given that the shields are reactive kinetic armour, you can overlap their zones without issue. As for effectiveness...
Well, both shields will respond in some manner to the attack, that's all I'll say.
Now... any further downtime planning from anyone? (Not that I'd suddenly lock in a plan that doesn't have any votes or anything-- I'm just curious on propositions)
Yeah, I'll have something put together by the end of the day.
Assuming another plan doesn't go through first.
Assuming another plan doesn't go through first.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Alright, alright, I geddit, no close range superheavy.
I still want to get to Everett literally next turn though, so that Breach gate is staying in.
Fair point on the alternative resource gain; though I'm not sure another factory would do it when that's pretty much our Manufacturing stat period. I am willing to research civilian recyclers, though.
Breach research, uh, I'm not getting any ideas other than genelock or rest stop, and since we can't utilize or aren't looking for anything outside of 50 miles, I'm not sure what rest stops would do for us now.
I'm switching Scanner Research for Researching Comms Free Action, because I think we could be doing a lot more comms actions like looking for old mines to reactivate, looking for nukes, looking for fights, looking for Resources, talking with Great Lakes Alliance more, etc.
I'm keeping the Scanner Aug research because we need to know about Cat III+ further away most urgently; Cat II or I are usually pretty easy to handle, and building a Cat III+ bonus to Scanners would likely be cheaper and/or have more effect than just a Scanners Upgrade.
Not adding Fafnirs or Laser Tanks because one, our conventional forces are not exactly lacking in firepower, two, the Fafnirs require normal actions (specifies they cannot be built with MPFs), and third, our normal tanks out range Laser Tanks, so I'm not sure that our force is necessarily improved by adding Laser Tanks. On the other hand, our assault teams are significantly improved by having more Meganeuras.
[X] Plan Spring
-[X] Normal Actions:
--[X] Build EX-03 Barrier Shield (-2250 Resources)
--[X] Install EX-03 Barrier Shield on Phenom Sable
--[X] Research Phenom Sable HtH
--[X] Research Phenom Sable HtH
--[X] Research Jagdgwehrer ammo
---Consult KRAUN for help
--[X] Build a Mk III Breach-Gate Generator (-5500 Resources)
--[X] Build a Mk II Breach Receiver (-1500 Resources)
--[X] Research Recycling Plant: flat resource production from civilian expenditures
--[X] Research Scanning Aug: Increased detection on high Cat Kaiju
--[X] Research Laser Communication Array: Free Comms Action
-[X] Free Actions
--[X] [Free] [Jaeger] Research Phenom Sable AGI
--[X] [Free] [Jaeger] Research Phenom Sable AGI
--[X] [Free] [Breach] Genelock to prevent Kaiju from entering or exiting our gates
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research Dragontar rounds (applies Fire/Acid Damage, like the trio)
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research Heimdall rapid-locking aka ability to move and fire.
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research way to let Field Resupply Squads to reload One Shot Only weapons
--[X] [Free] [Comms] Scan Everett
--[X] [Free] [Recyc] Nothing
--[X] [Free] [Manu] Dragonfly x2, Meganeura x3
--[X] [Free] [Phenom] Repair Phenom Sable (-60 Resources)
--[X] [Free] [Ashley] Continue with conventional treatment (no bonus, no malus)
I still want to get to Everett literally next turn though, so that Breach gate is staying in.
Fair point on the alternative resource gain; though I'm not sure another factory would do it when that's pretty much our Manufacturing stat period. I am willing to research civilian recyclers, though.
Breach research, uh, I'm not getting any ideas other than genelock or rest stop, and since we can't utilize or aren't looking for anything outside of 50 miles, I'm not sure what rest stops would do for us now.
I'm switching Scanner Research for Researching Comms Free Action, because I think we could be doing a lot more comms actions like looking for old mines to reactivate, looking for nukes, looking for fights, looking for Resources, talking with Great Lakes Alliance more, etc.
I'm keeping the Scanner Aug research because we need to know about Cat III+ further away most urgently; Cat II or I are usually pretty easy to handle, and building a Cat III+ bonus to Scanners would likely be cheaper and/or have more effect than just a Scanners Upgrade.
Not adding Fafnirs or Laser Tanks because one, our conventional forces are not exactly lacking in firepower, two, the Fafnirs require normal actions (specifies they cannot be built with MPFs), and third, our normal tanks out range Laser Tanks, so I'm not sure that our force is necessarily improved by adding Laser Tanks. On the other hand, our assault teams are significantly improved by having more Meganeuras.
[X] Plan Spring
-[X] Normal Actions:
--[X] Build EX-03 Barrier Shield (-2250 Resources)
--[X] Install EX-03 Barrier Shield on Phenom Sable
--[X] Research Phenom Sable HtH
--[X] Research Phenom Sable HtH
--[X] Research Jagdgwehrer ammo
---Consult KRAUN for help
--[X] Build a Mk III Breach-Gate Generator (-5500 Resources)
--[X] Build a Mk II Breach Receiver (-1500 Resources)
--[X] Research Recycling Plant: flat resource production from civilian expenditures
--[X] Research Scanning Aug: Increased detection on high Cat Kaiju
--[X] Research Laser Communication Array: Free Comms Action
-[X] Free Actions
--[X] [Free] [Jaeger] Research Phenom Sable AGI
--[X] [Free] [Jaeger] Research Phenom Sable AGI
--[X] [Free] [Breach] Genelock to prevent Kaiju from entering or exiting our gates
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research Dragontar rounds (applies Fire/Acid Damage, like the trio)
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research Heimdall rapid-locking aka ability to move and fire.
--[X] [Free] [Con] Research way to let Field Resupply Squads to reload One Shot Only weapons
--[X] [Free] [Comms] Scan Everett
--[X] [Free] [Recyc] Nothing
--[X] [Free] [Manu] Dragonfly x2, Meganeura x3
--[X] [Free] [Phenom] Repair Phenom Sable (-60 Resources)
--[X] [Free] [Ashley] Continue with conventional treatment (no bonus, no malus)
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LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
I'm thinking you might be in too much of a hurry, there.
We already have one of those, though, and I'm skeptical of our need for more.
Additionally:
pretty sure we were keeping that as a spare.
You forgot our free naval unit.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Eh. Mark 0 research is gated behind multiple cities, Everett has a really cool hangar, and since Medford still exists despite only having tanks and bazookas, we can and should settle Everett sooner rather than later.
Comms lets us talk with the GLA, look for mine sites, look for resource caches, threats in our neighborhood, etc. I think we need more.
I'll change recycling to "nothing", then.
There is no free naval unit, dock works only gives you free naval units every other turn.
HolyDragoon
Call Gespenst!
- Location
- Portugal
Well, it might be that out current areas aren't enough to preempt strikes against secondary cities. We don't know if it will hold with a third town, though.
Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
We barely have things to use the Comms action on as is. We don't need more of them. And scanning for Kaiju in our area of influence is a Scanners action, which I wouldn't mind having as a free action every turn if only to keep on top of the Kaiju that move in.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
I usually try to, but that's one of the new ones, which were kinda varied. Also, I may have been distracted by something. *attempts to hide Xcom 2: War of the Chosen*
Ah. That could be an issue, but is somewhat niche. While having a solution for that would be good, and I'd be up for looking into it, I'm not sure it should be at the top of the list right now.
I was trying to give a hypothetical example of a flat resource gain building. However, I'd personally be fine with simply building more of the buildings that enhance our gains from Kaiju. Assuming they stack, of course. We could use some enhancement of our supply of Resources, whatever route to it we decide to take, and we have a lot of empty slots we could fill in Manufacturing.
There a reason we're researching ammo for that random gun we picked up a while back? We only have one Jaeger who could use it well, and she already has a really nice gun. PS and TR rely too much on built in melee for handheld guns to work well for them, IMO, especially in Phenom's case. Also, we could probably just get the designs for the ammo from our friends at KRAUN, since it seems to have been one of their weapons, judging by how fast Jagdhund ID'd it.
Edit: I feel like we need to hit them up for tech more. We're given them a rather large amount of really neat tech. They should be quite willing to do the same for us.
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