Strange Aeons: A 40k Xeno Governor Quest

[The Froggy Ninja]

This - along with several other Forge worlds - would be worth contacting at some point.

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My personal list is thus:

• Worlds of Note:
  • Shitlist:
    • Valvadus and Co (Mining Worlds that sabotaged Shogi-destroy them and take their Blackstone)
  • Trade/Befriend:
    • Halane and Phistos (Exotic Biology Agri-Worlds-Life Particle Fodder)
    • Neha or Saleqan (Mining Worlds with Ininitite-Infinitite seems like a neat warp or veil adjacent material since it's used in Power Weapons)
    • Phisho (Agri-Death World with Exotic Biology-samples of both Exotic *and* Death World biology? Nice.)
    • Ingrim (Extreme Diversity Agri World-good to get a good spread of bio samples)
    • Valfis and Regribe (data hive Forge Worlds-get data on general sciences. There's tons of fields we have Jack shit on, such as astrophysics. Don't trade calc hearts unless we're sure they're chill, but the DAoT Computing tech from the Mechanivore is probably a good bargaining chip)
    • Berd (Exotic Material Forge World-mmmm tasty exotics)
    • Thos (The big shot Forge World Robinton mentioned-Big Kahuna of the local Forge Worlds so good to get on their good side, even before getting into trading for relics to analyze)
    • Fela (the other Gateway world, leading to the Cadian Sector-good friend to have in trade or in war)
    • Moyria (Shrine World for local Sororitas-stay pious yo. Probably already locked in by having a living saint)
    • Seyken and Tarkan (Astartes Homeworlds-pls don't BLAM us)

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

The Froggy Ninja: Anyway, here's my multi-step plan to [eventually] rescue Isha:

1. Integrate at least Auramite and Blackstone. Preferably Necrodermis too. Lorelei would be cherry.
2. Make a 3E sensorium. Either Veil Sensing Discovery or Pinnacle Veil Discovery depending on how much integrating Blackstone and Necrodermis helps with the spiritual and cognitive strain respectively.
3. Study Veil Tech and material science for methods of developing true 3E Grade Alloys. Also refine Veil Shield to personal scale.
4. Make Absolute Unknowable Veil Forged Veil Shield. Possibly Absolute Defense Veil Forged Meta Shield as backup.
5. Sneak into Nurgle's Garden, use some tool (maybe the Absolute Domain Array or just a Rending Blade) to open the cage and get Isha under the Aegis of the stealth/defense field.
6. Book it.

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I have discovered a conflict with this plan. Not necessarily a problem since the plan is workable as is, but rather another plan that is mutually exclusive without a clear practically or morally superior option. For context, here are some collected statements about what I term Nurgle's Heel Face Bomb and the ensuing Wyld Queen/Phoenix Queen (Bolded and underlined a couple sections that are particularly relevant):

Leon12431: but yeah Nurgle is weird in that if someone could get through his delusions there would be a good chance for him to just decay himself
Kesar Dorlin:🤔
Leon12431: Nurgle ironically couldn't handle that kind of despair that his love is truly torture
Kesar Dorlin: If Isha somehow healed his mind enough to recognize his rotten state, he'd voluntarily commit one-with-grass? Leon12431: pretty much
Leon12431: Nurgle basically wants to be Isha
Leon12431: its why he is so adamant about trying to get her to like him
Leon12431: and tries to do things that he thinks will make her like him
Leon12431: he issue at hand is that Nurgle has enough domains regarding life/death to want to have her personal combined domain
Kesar Dorlin: He is unfortunately, however, made of Chaos, and therefore entirely made of Bad Shit™️ which is contradictory to the nice parts of life/death
Leon12431: pretty much
Leon12431: if someone could slam it through his head the truth of the matter there is a fairly good chance that his domains just rebel
Leon12431: of everyone in the galaxy the Witness would actually be the best to have a talk with a Chaos God in that manner Kesar Dorlin: I'm imagining Nurgle going sane and his domains chestbursting out of him like a butterfly out of a chrysalis to spawn a non-Chaotic god
Leon12431: it would be more that those domains would just leap into Isha

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-snipped discussion about how even True Killing Chaos Gods just makes one of their Daemons inherit the throne-
The Froggy Ninja: What would happen if Nurgle self destructed? Would one of his Daemons still inherit his power but not his Domains?
Leon12431: Nurgle self destructing would result in him basically giving Isha all his power and domains which would cause a massive warp upheaval to say the least
The Froggy Ninja: Hopefully low odds of Chaos!Isha though. Because that would just be bad news for everyone.
Leon12431: no chance of that
Kesar Dorlin: Given it would come of Nurgle realizing that being Chaos is fundamentally incompatible with the domains, it wouldn't happen
The Froggy Ninja: So birth of Slaanesh but in reverse?
Leon12431: sort of but it would mutate several mantles of the aeldari pantheon most notably the Everqueen and Phoenix King more or less fusing them into one Mantle which would fall onto Isha
Kesar Dorlin: Eternal Phoenix Queen
The Froggy Ninja: Wyld Queen
Leon12431: it would respark the Pantheon as well so Cegorach gets to abuse his full power in truth once more and Slaanesh gets yeeted
Leon12431: which would instantly delete about 50% of its power and tear those souls out of it
The Froggy Ninja: And Isha's first Edict is to repeal Asuryan's Edict
Leon12431: yup the moment the Edict falls, Isha and Cegorach would basically grab every single Shard and reforge Khaine
Kesar Dorlin: So we very want the Witness to call up Isha and Nurgle on the Divine Life phone
Leon12431: and Emps would be hit by the Edict falling which would in turn allow him to bring to bear his full power in the material realm

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I snipped a couple reaction comments that didn't meaningfully alter the information and a bit of exploration on Emps and Tyrant's reactions/the diplomatic consequences for the Aeldari and Exatari, etc. but you get the gist.

Now, you may be thinking "Froggy, you incredibly handsome amphibian you, this sounds like a pure win win! Free Isha and then have her and the Witness work together to smack Nurgle upside the head with a Clue Bat!" Well, thank you for the compliment, but unfortunately life isn't so simple. Triggering the Heel Face Bomb is a two step process:

1. Someone with a big brain debates Nurgle about the meaning of Life and concept of empathy. The Witness has been confirmed as most suitable.
2. Once the Big Brain gets Nurgle to actually ask "Am I the asshole?" Isha needs to hammer the point home, preferably by explaining that she pities him, but "no shit pusbagk" also works.

Unfortunately, Nurgle is too horny for Isha showing defiance for him to listen to her in any situation other than her remaining captured.

Thus we come to a twofold problem, both practical and ethical. On the practical side:

• Mission Imp-Isha-ble gets a life goddess back in the game likely hundreds of years early, considering the Heel Face Bomb is likely to go off at the turn of the millennium for portentous reasons. She'd be able to kill several of Nurgle's Exalteds, help the eldar with their fertility problem, maybe even make Spirit Stones somewhere other than the most dangerous place in the galaxy. Plus we'd be able to make a Divinity Template directly from her, which'll be quicker than advancing Divinity's tech level enough to derive one from the Forest and Seed and give us effective access to TL12 Life Particles via rituals.
• Pulling off Operation Cyberbully leads to not just freeing the Aeldari Pantheon of Slaanesh's parasitic influence, thus nerfing Slaanesh and empowering them, but it also lets us skip the wait to get a worthy Phoenix King before removing the Edict, makes sure the new ruler of the Aeldari gods is a compassionate, non-tyrannical person and mitigates the risk of the next Phoenix King ending up as short sighted as Asuryan, since Isha's got enough weight to resist the personality bleed.

In terms of ethics and morality:

• Deontology states that allowing a person we are capable of saving to suffer longer for any reason is morally reprehensible, which also fits with the gut reaction to "leave Isha with Nurgle for long term gain"
• From a Utilitarian perspective, permanently removing a Chaos God is insanely helpful to literally everyone and Isha is basically the only Aeldari entity I trust to take on the Phoenix Crown for the above stated reasons. When you throw in Isha gaining a Chaos God's worth of power on top of her own and removing the Last Edict early (considering resparking the Aeldari Pantheon is unlikely to happen sooner than the projected date of Operation Cyberbully due to Ynnead and then we'd have to both find a suitable Phoenix King and wait for them to reach Apotheosis) it becomes even better.

Now, it does occur to me that there is a possibility to have our cake and eat it too. Specifically, that Nurgle could recapture Isha after her escape, by sending several of his Exalted Daemons and Morty, with probably half of them getting True Killed in the process. He would only be willing to dedicate that much power if the infighting among Chaos is relatively peaceful though, so it's mutually exclusive with the "awaken Malal" plan. This plan would give us enough time to make a Divinity Template, kill several of Nurgle's Exalted and we can probably help out with Eldar fertility and Spirit Stones via Isha Template Rituals.

Do note that we have basically no control over that last option. We lack the ability to meaningfully interfere with that level of force coming after Isha and our capacity to hide her requires she stay in our immediate proximity. The only influence we have is if we can manage to influence Chaos's infighting which has some impact on whether Nurgle tries at all, since he'll definitely succeed if he tries.

Any thoughts, suggestions or alternatives? Fuck Chaos.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

Any thoughts, suggestions or alternatives? Fuck Chaos.

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considering the Heel Face Bomb is likely to go off at the turn of the millennium for portentous reasons

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Does it Need to happen then?

It's Narratively Appropriate yes, but part of the entire situation is denying and reworking Narratives, so who says this has to happen at the turn of the millennium?

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Does it Need to happen then?

It's Narratively Appropriate yes, but part of the entire situation is denying and reworking Narratives, so who says this has to happen at the turn of the millennium?

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It doesn't need to but it'll take quite a while for the Witness to get Nurgle to the point of actually questioning himself, and the process will go better the closer the Witness is to Apotheosis which should finish cooking around then anyway. It'll definitely take longer than Mission Imp-Isha-ble.
EDIT: Plus, Nurgle will likely be extra vulnerable then due to the massive prophecy pileup, so even if we're not subject to fate, it would tip him over the edge if we don't finish before then.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

It doesn't need to but it'll take quite a while for the Witness to get Nurgle to the point of actually questioning himself, and the process will go better the closer the Witness is to Apotheosis which should finish cooking around then anyway. It'll definitely take longer than Mission Imp-Isha-ble.
EDIT: Plus, Nurgle will likely be extra vulnerable then due to the massive prophecy pileup, so even if we're not subject to fate, it would tip him over the edge if we don't finish before then.

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So the question basically is, "Do we start something with a low (miniscule) chance of success, which improves over time cumulating at the highest success at The Promised Time" compared to going Ocean's 11k and having one relatively moderate risk high reward event that would pay off much sooner than the likely resolution point for the Heel-Face Turn.

Ignoring the moral implications of suffering and torture and whatnot.

Morally, it's an absolute shitshow and I'm not going to touch it, because the situation of "Do we leave a person in suffering that we could help and who could then go on to help others?" compared to "If we wait and lay down a proper PsyOp the victim will end up running away with the keys to the kingdom" compared to "What about the people suffering in our own backyard?" is one of those things that I just don't have the energy to form a big reaction to.

I think....

It's a question of what sort of setting we want to exist in.

Mission Imp-Isha-ble leads to, effectively, a continuation of the existing setting. A new benevolent Eldar aligned actor enters the scene, we get a whole bunch of goodies ranging from material, esoteric, and political, but the general weight of things stays the same.

Project Heel-Face Turn in comparison is a table flip of immense proportions. One Chaos God is explicitly killed off and used as fuel to boost Isha, who then usurps her own Pantheon (of Two) and says "Screw The Rules, I'm In Charge Now, and I say We Can Do More Than This." Slaanesh is maimed, basically putting the CGs down one and a half players, and almost certainly stirring up so much more shit because Slaanesh is going to want their power back while Tzeench and Khorne are going to be taking bites out of Slaanesh. The Emperor (and the Tyrant) plays ride along to the Eldari Pantheon and gets much more leeway in how he can use and apply his power.

With the implications of how the Warp will have changed, it feels to me that it effectively- okay so, you know how Warhammer Fantasy handled Magical Bullshit? With Advanced Mechanical Stuff (which is basically Magic) being existent but Rare, and Magic being isolated to specific groups, and while it's Powerful and Gamechanging, you can still kill a Mage with a good sword blow? And how the Big Giant Monsters are rare and expensive? And how Age of Sigmar is basically "We Are The High Fantasy And Everyone Gets Magic Power Armor And Flying Machines"?

I feel like, in terms of "Warp Bullshittery", Heel-Face Turn leads to the beginning of a complete paradigm change in what's fundamentally possible, and I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not. I can see a lot of good things, and a lot of potential for bad, and honestly 40k could use a massive table flip, so I think I'm leaning "This Is A Good Thing", but it's still something to discuss I think.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Slaanesh is maimed, basically putting the CGs down one and a half players, and almost certainly stirring up so much more shit because Slaanesh is going to want their power back while Tzeench and Khorne are going to be taking bites out of Slaanesh.

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Do note that resparking the Aeldari Pantheon by any method (such as making sure Ynnead gets properly birthed at the Promised Time) will result in nerfing Slaanesh and buffing the rest of the gods, though they'll still be bound by the Edict until a new Phoenix King ascends.
EDIT: Apparently one of the existing gods (Cego, Isha, whoever the new god is if that's what resparked the Pantheon) will also take on the mantle of Phoenix King, so the difference is "mostly in the fact that the Phoenix King throne doesnt merge with the other Mantles' its an additional mantle so to speak so greater mental influence, less skill with its power, generally its like being forced to learn a skill that is similar but also entirely different." I'd still prefer Wyld Queen Isha for the guarantee of it being her, the benefits of merging the Mantles and the whole "Nurgle self destructs and empowers Isha" aspect.

I feel like, in terms of "Warp Bullshittery", Heel-Face Turn leads to the beginning of a complete paradigm change in what's fundamentally possible, and I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not. I can see a lot of good things, and a lot of potential for bad, and honestly 40k could use a massive table flip, so I think I'm leaning "This Is A Good Thing", but it's still something to discuss I think.

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I think that's a salient point and that our best bet might just be doing Mission Imp-Isha-ble and rolling the dice on whether Nurgle recapture's her after we've gotten some of the initial benefits and she kills a bunch of his Exalted. If he doesn't, we still get a friendly goddess and +1 million Eldar Rep, if he does, we've still got the template, a bunch of his Exalted Daemons are dead, he's spending more effort on Isha Security and we can try the Heel Face Bomb then.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Update on what happens if we pull off Mission Imp-Isha-ble:

• 10% chance Slaanesh finds and eats Isha (which would be Very Bad for a variety of fairly obvious reasons)
• 40-90% Chance Nurgle successfully hunts down and recaptures Isha, losing a fair number of his Exalted Greater Daemons and possibly Morty in the process. (varies based on if he's got important projects or Tzeentch is fucking with him etc actual values range from 0-99.99%, but actually likely values are as listed)
  • ?% chance Isha just straight kills herself instead of being captured. Less bad than Slaanesh eating her but still not good.
• ?% chance Isha remains free long enough for the Rebirth of Ynnead or some other event to respark the pantheon

Now, obviously option one is unacceptable. Option two is arguably best for us because it means we get the immediate benefits of freeing Isha (Eldar Rep and a Divinity Template) but can still do the other plan with its benefits, plus kill a good chunk of Nurgle's strongest forces much earlier, making him less of a problem in the interim. Option 2b is very bad but still acceptable. Option three is also fine. With all that in mind, I'm tentatively putting Mission Imp-Isha-ble on the "Don't Do" list, subject to review when we're actually at a point where it's practical to pull off.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

With all that in mind, I'm tentatively putting Mission Imp-Isha-ble on the "Don't Do" list, subject to review when we're actually at a point where it's practical to pull off.

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Yeah, any plan that has a not insignificant chance of the VIP being eaten by Slaanesh or committing suicide requires....more refinement at least.

That being said, maybe we can send Isha care packages? What are good presents for imprisoned Witness tier Warp Entities?

 

[_Plague Doctor_]

Something to purify her mayybe? so she doesn't despair.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Yeah, any plan that has a not insignificant chance of the VIP being eaten by Slaanesh or committing suicide requires....more refinement at least.

That being said, maybe we can send Isha care packages? What are good presents for imprisoned Witness tier Warp Entities?

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Issue with that is that the easiest way to do so would be Divinity based Isha Rituals. Which require either personal inspection or Tech Level 8-12 in Divinity, depending on if the Black Library has data on her we can parse or if we have to derive from the Void Forest. Both of which will take quite some time, even with the research bonuses from calc hearts and the LMs waking up.

 

[Robinton]

Tech Level 8-12 in Divinity

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Let's see:

Max known-for-sure Exatari Multipliers: x3 Calc-Hearts, x24 Living Mausoeums, x? Information. Estimate x100 altogether.

I'll guess that Necron Alloys (probably available by Turn 30) will give a further x2 boost. I'll guess that that Blackstone/Auramite/Necrodermis/Lorelei incorporation (probably available by Turn 20) will give a further x1.5 boost. I'll guess that The Witness making Broken Scholarships normal will give a further slightly-less-than-x2 boost. Estimate x500 altogether.

Divinity is 5x harder than normal, so 5x multiplier to research times.

So baseline would be 70*5=350 years for TL1. But multipliers mean it'll take 0.7 years.

Every +4 TLs is a *3.375*(threshold) cost-increase, where (threshold) is 2 then 3 then 4 then 5... as you increase in TL. You also have to consider all prior TLs for "total research time" - this winds up, effectively, multiplying the time by a bit over 2.

So TL8 would be 30-odd years, but TL12 would be 300-odd years. That second one is getting a bit long.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

So TL8 would be 30-odd years, but TL12 would be 300-odd years. That second one is getting a bit long.

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Still likely 500 years quicker than the cyberbullying campaign will take to finish cooking. Accounting for the centuries spent getting to that full multiplier. Also keep in mind that each integration makes future integrations harder. Probable order, due to both difficulty and availability, is Auramite (since we have it and it'll probably be hardest), Blackstone (for safety and since it's Veil tech so probably more compatible) then Necrodermis (we literally evolved from it, ez mode but dangerous without the mitigation of the other two) with Lorelei likely waiting until we have higher TLs in Life, Information and Divinity. Of course, by the time we get Divinity 8, we'll already be half way to Life 12, which will somewhat reduce the value of Isha rituals for ourself, though they'll still be way better for our humans.

 

[Robinton]

Spoiler: More select Discord quotes - this time analyzing Meta Libraries as their TL grows

Robinton note on NEX, as best as he can recall: each chaos god has a sacred number, right? Each is 1 less than the last, right? What happens if that reaches zero? NEX. Long story short, it's the end-result of the chaos-gods story reaching its logical progression. Naturally, we would very much like to prevent this...

Leon:
Life grows in what it can affect, Ruin grows in how much it can get from sacrifice, Weight is more or less already tapped out but its mostly just more efficient meta flux exploitation and at the higher levels a downgraded replica of the other Libraries

Life
TL 4 - can do notable self targeted evolution/alteration, can heal a group to a preset definition
TL 8 - can affect a large group with targeted mutation/alteration, can heal even warp inflicted mutations/injuries, can create species from a template with modifications
TL 12 - begins to enable spiritual evolution and improves general alteration, can heal minor spiritual damage, can create a semi arbitrary species
TL 16+ mostly increases in evolutionary control, and spiritual healing/evolution

Ruin
TL 4 - Inversion of daemons becomes something doable consistently
TL 8 - Can invert Honored daemons without them needing to be weakened, enables Rending of Chaos Immunity traits
TL 12 - Can mass invert daemons up to Honored, can Strip traits barring Immunity ones from low rank Exalted and below to give to others
TL 16 - can Invert low Exalted, can strip traits barring Immunity from higher Exalted, can provide interstellar scale sacrifice backed rituals
TL 20 - can invert and strip traits from any daemon that is below Major Chaos God
TL 24 - Can invert and strip traits from Primeval Chaos Gods
TL 28 - Can affect NEX forces directly
TL 32 - can Invert NEX forces
TL 36 - Can Strip traits from NEX forces
TL 40 - Can contest NEX directly
TL 44 - Can defend against NEX
TL 48 - Can prevent NEX from making progress
TL 52 - Can defeat NEX

Weight
TL 16 - unlocks ~TL 1 in all Libraries barring Meta ones, doubles effective meta flux
TL 20 - provides 1 TL to all Libraries, doubles effective meta flux
ect

Information
TL 4 - reduce Research Time by 1% (this grows by 1% every 4 levels to a cap of 5%)
TL 8 - every TL in the future increases to 1.2, can manifest data as constructs
TL 12 - Increases skill effect to 3x, data constructs become stronger and farther reaching
TL 16 - can edit Information such as low level Traits and stats and skills
TL 20 - Increases skill effect to 5x, Data can be DELETED
TL 24 - Data can be CREATED

 

[_Plague Doctor_]

Spoiler: More select Discord quotes - this time analyzing Meta Libraries as their TL grows

1. Life grows in what it can affect, Ruin grows in how much it can get from sacrifice, Weight is more or less already tapped out but its mostly just more efficient meta flux exploitation and at the higher levels a downgraded replica of the other Libraries

Life
TL 4 - can do notable self targeted evolution/alteration, can heal a group to a preset definition
TL 8 - can affect a large group with targeted mutation/alteration, can heal even warp inflicted mutations/injuries, can create species from a template with modifications
TL 12 - begins to enable spiritual evolution and improves general alteration, can heal minor spiritual damage, can create a semi arbitrary species
TL 16+ mostly increases in evolutionary control, and spiritual healing/evolution

Ruin
TL 4 - Inversion of daemons becomes something doable consistently
TL 8 - Can invert Honored daemons without them needing to be weakened, enables Rending of Chaos Immunity traits
TL 12 - Can mass invert daemons up to Honored, can Strip traits barring Immunity ones from low rank Exalted and below to give to others
TL 16 - can Invert low Exalted, can strip traits barring Immunity from higher Exalted, can provide interstellar scale sacrifice backed rituals
TL 20 - can invert and strip traits from any daemon that is below Major Chaos God
TL 24 - Can invert and strip traits from Primeval Chaos Gods
TL 28 - Can affect NEX forces directly
TL 32 - can Invert NEX forces
TL 36 - Can Strip traits from NEX forces
TL 40 - Can contest NEX directly
TL 44 - Can defend against NEX
TL 48 - Can prevent NEX from making progress
TL 52 - Can defeat NEX

Weight
TL 16 - unlocks ~TL 1 in all Libraries barring Meta ones, doubles effective meta flux
TL 20 - provides 1 TL to all Libraries, doubles effective meta flux
ect

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What is NEX?

 

[Robinton]

What is NEX?

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As best as I can recall: each chaos god has a sacred number, right? Each is 1 less than the last, right? What happens if that reaches zero? NEX. Long story short, it's the end-result of the chaos-gods story reaching its logical progression. Naturally, we would very much like to prevent this...

Addendum: NEX isn't real enough yet to do much, but a very minor servant of NEX ("NEX Sprite") is expected to attack Atraxas during the Turn 11 Incursion. Assuming Atraxas survives, this is probably a good thing - he'll get a seriously broken trait out of it ("become the bright future of the Exatari", roughly).

Addendum 2: It's technically possible that the NEX Sprite will wind up Inverted. If so, that's expected to effectively clone Atraxas (except that the two sort-of share a mind). Which would, predictably, be a very helpful further addition. Probability of this is low, I think?

 

[Walliseatscheese]

Addendum 2: It's technically possible that the NEX Sprite will wind up Inverted. If so, that's expected to effectively clone Atraxas (except that the two sort-of share a mind). Which would, predictably, be a very helpful further addition. Probability of this is low, I think?

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If this manages to happen, I hope we'll finally dedicate some actions to beginning the Action Creation Chain that has been in front of us since turn one.

 

[_Plague Doctor_]

If this manages to happen, I hope we'll finally dedicate some actions to beginning the Action Creation Chain that has been in front of us since turn one.

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What's the Action Creation Chain?

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Addendum: NEX isn't real enough yet to do much, but a very minor servant of NEX ("NEX Sprite") is expected to attack Atraxas during the Turn 11 Incursion. Assuming Atraxas survives, this is probably a good thing - he'll get a seriously broken trait out of it ("become the bright future of the Exatari", roughly).

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Some additional information here; the NEX Sprite just auto-wins against anything not Atraxas (or possibly bypasses them?) since it's Atraxas's nemesis and fighting them is unmodified contested d100s. Note that Meta Shields are bullshit enough to give a bonus to that standoff, thus why I want to commission an Absolute Veil Meta Shield with one of our Homeworld Wishes.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

What's the Action Creation Chain?

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Okay, so, we have several options to create Actions, and have had them since the beginning.

The two most relevant ones are "Recruit People To Do Actions For You" and "Create People To Do Actions For You."

There's also a "Siphon Money From The Government In Ways That Let You Spend It On Actions Without Causing Suspicion If Done Correctly" Action Chain.

Done together, they would eventually build up to a whole adjacent organization of operators loyal to us who are able to do Government scale actions.

Ideally we set them up to do all those Researches and Low Hanging Fruit in other catagories that would otherwise have too high a Suspicion Cost for us to consider knocking them out all at once.

The process would effectively be:

Do Actions Needed To Hide One Action From Paperwork And The Like.

Use that Action to Create an Agent (because they have a higher bonus to their actions than Recruiting an Agent, outside of lucking into Notables).

Use the Hidden Agent to do whatever groundwork needed to Create or Recruit another Agent, while personally expanding the paperwork needed to funnel more funds to the side, if needed (will be much easier/saner/less damaging to everyone and everything if done in concert with the Massive Resource Gains that the Planet Lassoing is going to give us).

From there, use Agents to get more Agents, until we reach saturation for our needs, and then have a selection continue Agent set up actions while the rest are actually productive.

If provided with adequate support, it could technically develop and run on its own after the initial investment.

But at the same time, in the lead up to an existential war is literally the worst time for something like this (or the best time depending on different perspectives...).

However, in the unlikely event of Inverting our NEXemesis and getting what sounds like a second body to do actions with, that feels like a foundation for getting off some really interesting Warp based Created Agents, to be directed by our extra body, which could allow us to knock out some otherwise Suspicious activities.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Additionally, this is the Divine Hierarchy for the three realms:

Spoiler: Divine Hierarchy

Empyrean Hierarchy
1 - Mote
2 - Sprite
3 - Elemental
4 - Fury
5 - Spirit
6 - Minor Daemon
7 - Lesser Daemon
8 - Daemon
9 - High Daemon
10 - Greater Daemon
11 - Lord Daemon
12 - Supreme Daemon
13 - Incarnation
14 - Favored
18 - Honored
22 - Exalted
26 - Minor God (Drach'nyren and Be'lakor are here)
30 - Major God (Vashtorr goes here, as do the Eldar Gods when not nerfed by the Pantheon shattering, though their Mantles and general Old One Fuckerytm means they can punch above their weight class)
40 - Primeval (The Four and Emps are pretty much the only ones here, though the Aeldari Pantheon as a whole counts as one, with the individual Major Gods being its avatars.)
~1700 - NEX

Veil Hierarchy
~20 - Djinni (the likes of Araahal)
40 - Veil God (What the Witness will become)

Material Hierarchy
40 -C'Tan

Note that without the conceptual backing of a being like NEX, some of the steps like "lord" and "supreme" are too insignificant an increase to waste power differentiating. Warp Gods also add 1% of their rank to their Deva, thus, a daemon of Khorne would be worth a tenth of a rank more than a daemon of Vashtor, or .4 ranks more than an independent daemon, if those could still exist without Chaos eating them.

 

[Robinton]

will be much easier/saner/less damaging to everyone and everything if done in concert with the Massive Resource Gains that the Planet Lassoing is going to give us

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We are about to get a massive source of resources, conjured out of thin air, that we won't really be able to explain… I suppose we could always funnel them into this project…

 

[Walliseatscheese]

We are about to get a massive source of resources, conjured out of thin air, that we won't really be able to explain… I suppose we could always funnel them into this project…

Click to shrink...

Oh right, I forgot that we could just Conjure up resources Ex Nilho like that.

Honestly if we could make that system efficient enough to operate on Ship scale, then that could do amazing things for travel longevity, and if we can make it efficient enough for logistical ground transport scale then, well. The Forever Wars would have Forever Bullets I suppose.

Maybe after we crack C'tan Resistant Mirder Bots.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Oh right, I forgot that we could just Conjure up resources Ex Nilho like that.

Honestly if we could make that system efficient enough to operate on Ship scale, then that could do amazing things for travel longevity, and if we can make it efficient enough for logistical ground transport scale then, well. The Forever Wars would have Forever Bullets I suppose.

Maybe after we crack C'tan Resistant Mirder Bots.

Click to shrink...

Considering you need 100 million Extras to produce 1 Resource per turn, that would only really be viable on Astartes ships.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

Considering you need 100 million Extras to produce 1 Resource per turn, that would only really be viable on Astartes ships.

Click to shrink...

We've seen that Giant Robots of sufficient age also fuel these pretty well (and tbh I'm still kind of amazed that we haven't talked to our own giant robots yet, especially now that we can practically gurantee the best result), so the logical conclusion is that a Significant Enough Vessel would be able to fuel the converter itself, accounting for both the massive amounts of crew and whatever narrative weight the more Notable aspects of itself and its crew contain.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

We've seen that Giant Robots of sufficient age also fuel these pretty well (and tbh I'm still kind of amazed that we haven't talked to our own giant robots yet, especially now that we can practically gurantee the best result), so the logical conclusion is that a Significant Enough Vessel would be able to fuel the converter itself, accounting for both the massive amounts of crew and whatever narrative weight the more Notable aspects of itself and its crew contain.

Click to shrink...

Additionally, upon further review, the upkeep of a single (non-capital) ship is slightly less than 1 Resource anyway.