Starship Design Bureau

Crippling the range/endurance is a no-go for this ship class.
As you see it you have two main options: either integrating the nacelles partly into the saucer section, which will shield them from battle damage; or outriders off the edge of the primary hull.

For the protected variant you would have to clear the outer edges of the saucer, really pushing space to a premium in the interior. For a dedicated combat ship that seems entirely practical, and you know the Defiant Project is pursuing a similar strategy. The loss in efficiency will drive the practical range of the ship down, though. The outrider nacelles on the other hand would increase the ship's profile and present an obvious target. The Borg would probably blow through regardless, but you're thinking more of standard engagements.

With arguments being made in favour of both you turn to the main deflector as the deciding factor. The standard deflector design would serve here, but in that case you really would have to use outrider nacelles to get decent performance out of the warp drive. On the other hand a new design is being proposed that would use an antiproton-charged dish to enhance the deflector field. If you could use that then you can offset the unacceptable performance losses from the internal nacelles.

The Internal Nacelles are not only better protected they also minimize the profile of the ship and the Antiproton Dish allows to compensate their bad range/endurance:

The outriders increase profile, are a gigantic shoot me there sign and their only advantage is more internal space! Somehow I do not think that fucking labs, Diplomatic lounges or anything non combat related will save a warship once an outrider nacelle was blown away on the first hit.
 
The Internal Nacelles are not only better protected they also minimize the profile of the ship and the Antiproton Dish allows to compensate their bad range/endurance:

The outriders increase profile, are a gigantic shoot me there sign and their only advantage is more internal space! Somehow I do not think that fucking labs, Diplomatic lounges or anything non combat related will save a warship once an outrider nacelle was blown away on the first hit.

Also still standard, somehow, in 2403. I don't think outriders will make or break a class.
 
[X] Standard Deflector

Let's not run this ship's production difficulty into a black hole like we did last time.
 
The Internal Nacelles are not only better protected they also minimize the profile of the ship and the Antiproton Dish allows to compensate their bad range/endurance:

The outriders increase profile, are a gigantic shoot me there sign and their only advantage is more internal space! Somehow I do not think that fucking labs, Diplomatic lounges or anything non combat related will save a warship once an outrider nacelle was blown away on the first hit.
This ship is going to be expected to carry out standard Starfleet missions for most of it's life. We're not designing a pure warship here, we need space for cargo and science and diplomacy.
 
This ship is going to be expected to carry out standard Starfleet missions for most of it's life. We're not designing a pure warship here, we need space for cargo and science and diplomacy.
"For the protected variant you would have to clear the outer edges of the saucer, really pushing space to a premium in the interior. For a dedicated combat ship that seems entirely practical, and you know the Defiant Project is pursuing a similar strategy."

I'm not sure if we are in this case.
 
[X] Standard Deflector

If this was a ship we were trying to push limits with I'd say experimental, but it's not. We're aiming for something that's fairly easily mass-producable, and that means keeping prototypes to where they directly impact the mission goal.
 
"For the protected variant you would have to clear the outer edges of the saucer, really pushing space to a premium in the interior. For a dedicated combat ship that seems entirely practical, and you know the Defiant Project is pursuing a similar strategy."

I'm not sure if we are in this case.
There's more than just combat metrics to consider, sadly. If the Borg were coming in a full invasion then perhaps it'd slide, but they aren't. Even then the more prototypes we load it up with the harder it is to make and maintain, and while starfleet loves hard to make and maintain capital ships, they HATE it on lighter ships. Hence why the Miranda is still going strong, despite it being literal trash at this point in time. The Reliant Class should have blown it out of the water, and yet it still persists due to ease of making and maintaining them while the Reliant got only a single production run, and is thus far our weakest showing in design.

So we still have to make this thing attractive to the brass and budget boards both for war AND peace. Meaning we need it to hit hard and be mean, but also to be able to carry out more or less the same role our Renaissance class did without breaking the bank like we did with the Ambassador.
 
2367: Project Saber (Tactical)
Order -> Spaceframe -> Propulsion -> Tactical -> Internals -> Prototyping -> Certification -> Retrospective​

[X] Standard Deflector

In the end you decide the standard design is the right choice given the priorities you need to juggle for such a small starship. You do make compromises based on security and damage control concerns, however. The primary nacelles are slightly tilted inwards to take advantage of the advances coming out of the Type-9 engine project that have developed field optimisations to reduce subspace damage caused by high warp factors. You also sheathe the nacelles in a thin layer of hull plating that won't stop a torpedo but should shield the nacelles against a grazing beam attack.

The main deflector is installed beneath the primary hull in a triangular secondary hull, given just enough space to give it a clear line of sight forward of the hull. Given how low-set it is and how small the ship is overall you doubt there's much chance of a successful targeted attack against it. The warp core is a small design, but it has more than enough power to supply the Saber with everything it needs.

But now you've come to the difficult choice of weapons system. While the Defiant Project is seeing very high sustained damage output from the new phaser cannons, you don't have the space for the notably extended profile of particle concentrators and linear accelerators needed for each cannon. That leaves torpedoes. As you see it you have two choices. The first is to mount a pair of standard tubes in the forward bow. They would have a wide field of fire and take up minimal space. The second is to install a launcher on the ventral surface, which would have a reduced firing arc but be capable of an increased rate of fire. It isn't an entirely proven technology, but it might be a useful advantage and is compatible with new torpedo formats.

The second question is one of warhead. The standard photon has been the gold standard for the past half-century, but the new Type-6 is on the verge of being completed. The photon warheads will be able to deliver more damage on target and a new torpedo casing is capable of accommodating alternate payloads. It is however a highly experimental package that might run into unforeseen complications in its final development stages, and requires a different torpedo storage mechanism.

[ ] Standard Tubes, Standard Torpedoes
[ ] Torpedo Launcher (Prototype), Standard Torpedoes
[ ] Torpedo Launcher (Prototype), Type-6 Torpedoes (Prototype) (Experimental)



Two Hour Moratorium on Voting, Please.
 
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New torpedoes seem like an obvious win. If there are teething issues, it's also presumably easier to swap back to older torps until they're sorted out, rather than swap a major system of the ship.

The dorsal launcher itself is honestly a bigger risk IMO, but I think it's worth trying?

Ultimately a lot of the impetus here is that we need a major qualitative upgrade in our weapons to fight the Borg. That's why this project was rushed inti being, and not the existing refits and designs we already had on the slate.
 
New torpedoes seem like an obvious win. If there are teething issues, it's also presumably easier to swap back to older torps until they're sorted out, rather than swap a major system of the ship.

The dorsal launcher itself is honestly a bigger risk IMO, but I think it's worth trying?

Ultimately a lot of the impetus here is that we need a major qualitative upgrade in our weapons to fight the Borg. That's why this project was rushed inti being, and not the existing refits and designs we already had on the slate.
Agreed. Weapons are a place where I think risking prototypes is worth it.
 
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