Starship Design Bureau
- Thread starter Sayle
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"Right, thread's done, here's the retrospective on your final ship: a long-term exploration ship.
"Wait, shit, you were all on-board celebrating its first mission when something went very, very wrong. You need a nice little runabout larger than a shuttle to help you get this ship home, and you don't exactly have a yard handy…"
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
That fight with the Romulan War Birds is a messy one, and Bedpotato wanted to smear the name of a captain due to her 'not engaging head-on'.
Dang, this is way too petty. If she had any mistakes in that engagement, she'd already paid it with her and her crew's lives. No need to smear her name to the ground.
In fact, the Romulans firing upon escape pods, there will be a reckoning for that.
Anyways, excellent quest @Sayle.
Dang, this is way too petty. If she had any mistakes in that engagement, she'd already paid it with her and her crew's lives. No need to smear her name to the ground.
In fact, the Romulans firing upon escape pods, there will be a reckoning for that.
Anyways, excellent quest @Sayle.
She had the perfect opportunity to destroy/disable at least one ship from the people that spent more than an hour hammering a colony from orbit. Instead she came out of warp and allowed them to surround her ship. They had all the time in the world in figuring out firing solutions and point their heavy gun at her. Then they opened fire first. This led to her destruction.
That ship was expensive so was the crew. 4 to one at a disadvantage she killed two. If she killed 1 at the start from behind all the heavy guns would have pointed away from her ship(A weakness Romulan and Klingon designs share. By the time they turned around to get at her she could have damaged or even killed a second vessel.
2 To 1 in a until then undamaged ship sounds a lot more manageable to me. Whiteout the romulans 4 to one advantage present she could have won a attrition battle.
- Location
- California
Tell me you don't understand Starfleet without telling me you don't understand Starfleet.
"Why did the supposedly competent in universe character not use my genius plan, which would have guaranteed success? What is she, an idiot?"
You can't talk that way to him. He knows how the Germans could have won WW2.
In all seriousness it's a silly complaint. Acting 'optimally' in that case would have had her in front of a board of enquiry and court martialled. For all Garrett knew she'd just walked into the opening engagement of a new Klingon-Romulan War. She had no information on what might have really been on Narendra III - for all she knew it was a military target. The Klingons at best are in a state of peace with the Federation, not any kind of alliance or military pact that would obligate assistance of any kind.
Being weapons cold might have been against regulation, but I think Garrett probably knew from the moment they dropped out of warp that the Enterprise vs four warbirds would not end well for them. She had no knowledge as to why this attack was happening. She was out of Federation space and out of her jurisdiction except under broad humanitarian reasons. Telling them to stop so she could assess the situation and they could talk was really the only option she had short of a warning shot, which if it resulted in conflict would probably end with at least casualties aboard the Enterprise and justly get her raked over the coals back home for escalating an already precarious situation.
It's just a very silly analysis of the situation, presuming that since there are a set of military actions that would have been more militarily effective that they are the correct course of action from the first moment. The actual answer is that if Garrett had done that she'd have been cashiered out of the service for being an absolute psycho who clearly isn't competent to weigh the complexities of command.
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0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
She's going to the loony bin if she decided to do that.
It's a good thing that she didn't, even if it costs her life.
I mean, I agree with your reasoning but calling them a wehraboo is going a bit far.
Unless they're actually a wehraboo in which case eh, take the piss as much as you want
It's less a wehraboo accusation and more calling out the "I know better then professionals as I rant from my armchair and stack of history books from questionable sources" energy.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
I got ITG energy, myself. Why I didn't bother responding.
Out of curiosity is the whole romulan sun exploding going to happen here?
Fair enough, I just hear a lot of wehraboos talking about how the Nazis could have won the war if X happened
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
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I mean probably, I don't think slightly different ships are gonna effect the event of that too much.
My interpretation of the captain going weapons cold is that it was essentially a desparation move. She knew she couldn't win the fight so she shut down the weapons because it might make de-escalating the situation a tiny bit more likely. The equivalent of a hostage negotiator approaching criminals while showing his hands were empty and he had no gun
Okay, this was me being an Armchair Admiral. Garret came out of warp and had surprise on her side. Her not using that golden chance to destroy an enemy and instead talking to the aggressive ships is just stupid and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise.(I know that this is standard Starfleet behavior with their peaceful idealism. That does not mean it is not stupid anyway). That it why I am pissed, if you do not intend to fight why stick your nose into the whole matter? If it is not her problem and could be the start of a new Klingon-Romulan war she should have reported the call and flown into the opposite direction instead of risking her hip and crew for nothing over something that did not involve her nation.
As for Nazis winning ww2 I am German and I can confidently say that nothing short of an act of God/Satan/The flying spaghetti Monster would allow Germany to pull of a victory.
- Location
- California
And get dragged in front of a Court Marshal for ignoring a distress call. Like, you get that the Federation is an idealistic society right? Starfleet instills certain values into it's captains, and those captains living up to said values is a good thing.
It should not be. This was a suicide run. Yet she did so regardless. The belief that she could peacefully talk it out. With people that just shot for 90 Minutes at a inhabited planet from Orbit hurts my SOD.
Even the most brain-dead idiot should see the romulan actions and realize that they would open fire on a single ship that comes in and ask them politely to "please stop your massacre."
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Starfleet also has a long history of sticking its nose into violent conflicts, and resolving them for the better with minimal shooting of either side.
That said, under the circumstances I doubt she'd have been courtmartialed for ignoring a distress call; it was from Klingon space, who Starfleet is only tentatively at peace with, and as noted in the update they actually have a specific directive not to enter their space. That's not to say she wouldn't have gotten funny looks or been judged informally, but formally it would have been a nightmare to try and pin anything on her.
Also starfleet has carry over from Earth's maritime law: you get a distress signal you do something about it even if it's just radioing the local coast guard because the courts will crush you with the book if they find you got that signal and ignored it.
Edit: and in this case it was a military vessel that got the signal at that point "You have to go out, you don't have to come back" is in full effect.
Edit: and in this case it was a military vessel that got the signal at that point "You have to go out, you don't have to come back" is in full effect.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
See, we can say that with our full knowledge of the context and circumstances and players involved. But for all she knew this could be a response to a Klingon attack or act of aggression, and opening fire could have forced Starfleet straight into a war they could have avoided. Or maybe the ships weren't deliberately trying to attack, and the disruptor fire was just an attempt at communication that was wrecking the planet (see Star Trek 4 if you don't think that's plausible). Or maybe the attacking ships had taken Klingons prisoner, and by alpha-striking them she would have murdered dozens or hundreds of civilians and caused a war with the Klingons. Or who knows what else.
Yes, I know that none of those scenarios are especially likely- the balance of probability is far in favour of the attackers being simple hostiles who can't be reasoned with. But the fact of the matter is, something being the most the likely option doesn't give you carte blanche to just assume that it definitely is what's happenining; even from a purely practical perspective, doing that sort of thing will eventually backfire on you. And the consequences of that can be worse that just getting yourself killed.
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Maybe the Warbirds were acting to contain a biological weapon that was unleashed. Maybe these Warbirds were a second group who had shot up the actual perpetrators. If you go in a shooting at people you are not at war with then you are probably going to start a war. The Klingons are not the people who you are sworn to defend. Trying to help them is a moral thing to do, but not at the cost of dragging your nation into a war that for all you know the Klingons started.
The captain also had no way to know for certain that a surprise attack would allow her to win the fight. It might have. But the romulans might have an excellent doctrine for responding to surprise attacks thanks to the use of their cloaking devices, combined with the ability of starships in Star Trek to detect other starships approaching at warp speeds. This could have allowed them to salvo plasma torpedoes into the path of the oncoming ship. Causing the ship to go splat.
If there was a war with the romulans and you were coming to the aid of a federation colony then being more aggressive would have made sense. As it was? Going in swinging seemed as foolish as you claim her actions were.
Respond to distress call. See four ships attacking colony. You are not an ally of either side. Keep your gun holstered and ask them what's going on. Follow the Star Fleet way and try to talk before you start shooting.
Seems quite responsible and reasonable to me.
6 seconds between those two time stamps. Running weapons cold didn't cost them that much time.
The captain also had no way to know for certain that a surprise attack would allow her to win the fight. It might have. But the romulans might have an excellent doctrine for responding to surprise attacks thanks to the use of their cloaking devices, combined with the ability of starships in Star Trek to detect other starships approaching at warp speeds. This could have allowed them to salvo plasma torpedoes into the path of the oncoming ship. Causing the ship to go splat.
If there was a war with the romulans and you were coming to the aid of a federation colony then being more aggressive would have made sense. As it was? Going in swinging seemed as foolish as you claim her actions were.
Respond to distress call. See four ships attacking colony. You are not an ally of either side. Keep your gun holstered and ask them what's going on. Follow the Star Fleet way and try to talk before you start shooting.
Seems quite responsible and reasonable to me.
6 seconds between those two time stamps. Running weapons cold didn't cost them that much time.
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So apparently the Ambassador was good enough for a second production run. Yay us.
The Enterprise going out swinging likely locked that in. It proved its mettle and the Klingons likley had a massive what ever their version of a kegger is when they got the news of the second production run.
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- Location
- America
In Yesterday's enterprise, four of Romulus's newest battleships jumped the Enterprise and quickly dismantled it. They lose one due to the Enterprise crew setting a Warp core beach after taking the prize wreck into tow.
In this one, four Romulan Battleships jump the Enterprise-C and despite having the element of surprise. Ent-C hulks two of them in a straight slugging match and then scuttles itself effectively immediately after the Romulans initiate atrocities.
In Yesterday's enterprise, the battle at Narendra III proved to the Klingons that the Federation was honorable.
Here, the new Romulan battleship proves that they need 4 to 1 odds to reliably fell a single ambassador class Cruiser. 3 to 1 is a toss up. They would lose a 2 on 1, and a straight duel doesn't even warrant speculation. For the Klingons, the Federation has proved not only honorable but straight out better warriors than the Romulans.
In this one, four Romulan Battleships jump the Enterprise-C and despite having the element of surprise. Ent-C hulks two of them in a straight slugging match and then scuttles itself effectively immediately after the Romulans initiate atrocities.
In Yesterday's enterprise, the battle at Narendra III proved to the Klingons that the Federation was honorable.
Here, the new Romulan battleship proves that they need 4 to 1 odds to reliably fell a single ambassador class Cruiser. 3 to 1 is a toss up. They would lose a 2 on 1, and a straight duel doesn't even warrant speculation. For the Klingons, the Federation has proved not only honorable but straight out better warriors than the Romulans.