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Star Wars: Ship Designer Quest

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Havalt300 said:
Do you know what I would like to develop next? An escort carrier. At least 500 meters long and with enough space for a full wing of starfighters (6 squadrons of up to 72 craft) So something like the Ton-Falk-class escort carrier.
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Good idea... sadly not really going to work here... As the Clone wars mostly consisted of close quarters slugging matches (Except the handful of engagments where both sides dropped the idiot ball and actually tried using fighter raids (Taking down the Malevolence)

So escort carriers dont really work (The only reason the Venator works is its giant size being able to tank hits fairly well (Barring to the spinal hanger... that's a hilariously obvious weak point)).

Especially since the war starts with only a handful of hyperdrive capable fighters... of which most are hyper ring based so pretty useless. So it doen't even grant long range tactical flexibility.

Tldr: We should only go for that AFTER the first Hyperspace capable fighters show up and if we get a specific commision for it... as not worth it otherwise.
 
Another issue with an escort carrier at this point is that most of the ships are pretty massive compared to their successors in the GCW, so a dedicated carrier would have to be pretty sizable to have a complement worth its tonnage.

Carrier capabilities aren't really all that feasible when the most common starfighter at this point in time is the Cloakshape.
 
Deltamaster said:
Good idea... sadly not really going to work here... As the Clone wars mostly consisted of close quarters slugging matches (Except the handful of engagments where both sides dropped the idiot ball and actually tried using fighter raids (Taking down the Malevolence)

So escort carriers dont really work (The only reason the Venator works is its giant size being able to tank hits fairly well (Barring to the spinal hanger... that's a hilariously obvious weak point)).

Especially since the war starts with only a handful of hyperdrive capable fighters... of which most are hyper ring based so pretty useless. So it doen't even grant long range tactical flexibility.

Tldr: We should only go for that AFTER the first Hyperspace capable fighters show up and if we get a specific commision for it... as not worth it otherwise.
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Sir_Travelsalot said:
Another issue with an escort carrier at this point is that most of the ships are pretty massive compared to their successors in the GCW, so a dedicated carrier would have to be pretty sizable to have a complement worth its tonnage.

Carrier capabilities aren't really all that feasible when the most common starfighter at this point in time is the Cloakshape.
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I just thought it would be good for patrols. So let's say at least three corvetes and one escort carrier. That would be a good mixture. Good against pirates, to protect trade routes, and in times of conflict you can protect supply lines (then the larger carriers like the venator don't have to serve for this).
 
Havalt300 said:
I just thought it would be good for patrols. So let's say at least three corvetes and one escort carrier. That would be a good mixture. Good against pirates, to protect trade routes, and in times of conflict you can protect supply lines (then the larger carriers like the venator don't have to serve for this).
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If you need a carrier during the Clone Wars that's smaller than a Venator, you can just modify an Acclamator to convert its troop transport bays into a starfighter hangar that can carry 156 of them. In fact, that's exactly what they did.
 
Deltamaster said:
Good idea... sadly not really going to work here... As the Clone wars mostly consisted of close quarters slugging matches (Except the handful of engagments where both sides dropped the idiot ball and actually tried using fighter raids (Taking down the Malevolence)

So escort carriers dont really work (The only reason the Venator works is its giant size being able to tank hits fairly well (Barring to the spinal hanger... that's a hilariously obvious weak point)).

Especially since the war starts with only a handful of hyperdrive capable fighters... of which most are hyper ring based so pretty useless. So it doen't even grant long range tactical flexibility.

Tldr: We should only go for that AFTER the first Hyperspace capable fighters show up and if we get a specific commision for it... as not worth it otherwise.
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The Other thing is that you don't really need escort carriers because the majority of the fighters like the Z-95 ha their own hyperdrives (so putting 50 or so starfighters into escorting a Patrol is possible - and ships like the old Hammerheads had hangers large enough for a dozen fighters so it's possible to rotate the fighters through something like them).
And the Venator seems to me as a prime example of an aviation-Battleship.
 
Silversun17 said:
aren't we planing on our Donnager inspired crusier to have a hanger bay?
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Yes, and that's the sticking point; we're planning to put a hangar bay on a cruiser. The point of contention was that in the Clone Wars era, there is no appreciable benefit to having an escort carrier ie. something in the size range of a corvette or frigate. With a vessel the size of a cruiser, the hangar bay can be big enough to make having a fighter complement practical.
 
Things to remember:

600m size limit.

Every inch you spend making a ship capable of handling fighters is space the ship can't use to be a better fighting ship.

Our buyers probably aren't interested in having a carrier (and if they are they'll tell us). They have places that can handle supplying fighters. They're called planetary bases and hangars, which for anything that isn't Tarkin's ORSF is probably plenty for their needs.
A corvette that's got a pretty good kapow-to-size ratio will sell anywhere that needs to patrol their space, anywhere that gets visited by merchants. The bigger we go, the smaller the market it'll have.
 
If we build a carrier it would be a larger corvette or frigate in size. Not something Cruiser sized which 500 meters falls under. Something the length of the Nebulon-B would be the proper size for an escort carrier. At that size it can carry half a starfighter wing at three squadrons or if focused on carrying capacity four squadrons like what the Quasar modified bulk carrier.
 
How many carriers does the Coast Guard have?

They've got corvettes (okay, they call them cutters, but). They've got land-bound hangars that let them utilize aircraft. I wouldn't doubt they've got wetsuits and motorboats for getting into the water and for boarding other vessels.

Remember, we're still in pre-Clone-Wars Republic here; planets tend to be a lot more self-interested, willing, and able to pursue those interests. I would hazard a guess most planetary defense forces that would be buying from us have ambitions far more Coast Guard (security, SAR, law enforcement) than Navy (project force beyond your borders).

Much fun as talking about carriers is? Not useful.

We sell a corvette, someone's going to feel scared by their neighbors. They're going to want to buy something that can splash a corvette. So we sell them a frigate.

Carracks, DP20s. Maybe a Marauder if you're feeling frisky. This feels like a solved problem. I don't like solved problems. No room to get into the market. So, here's the question: How do we make an interesting frigate? If that's even our next design.

All missiles? Lupus-class missile frigate theoretically already exists.
Fast? Marauder already exists.
Durable? Carrack.
Powerful? DP20.

It's late so I'm not sure what of those designs already exists and what we can steal the thunder of, but that's worth looking into.
 
Barondoctor said:
How many carriers does the Coast Guard have?

They've got corvettes (okay, they call them cutters, but). They've got land-bound hangars that let them utilize aircraft. I wouldn't doubt they've got wetsuits and motorboats for getting into the water and for boarding other vessels.

Remember, we're still in pre-Clone-Wars Republic here; planets tend to be a lot more self-interested, willing, and able to pursue those interests. I would hazard a guess most planetary defense forces that would be buying from us have ambitions far more Coast Guard (security, SAR, law enforcement) than Navy (project force beyond your borders).

Much fun as talking about carriers is? Not useful.

We sell a corvette, someone's going to feel scared by their neighbors. They're going to want to buy something that can splash a corvette. So we sell them a frigate.

Carracks, DP20s. Maybe a Marauder if you're feeling frisky. This feels like a solved problem. I don't like solved problems. No room to get into the market. So, here's the question: How do we make an interesting frigate? If that's even our next design.

All missiles? Lupus-class missile frigate theoretically already exists.
Fast? Marauder already exists.
Durable? Carrack.
Powerful? DP20.

It's late so I'm not sure what of those designs already exists and what we can steal the thunder of, but that's worth looking into.
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No they aren't. They just saw what the Republic is like and what they refuse to act against. Those in the Mid-rim and outer rim very much are looking to build up their military naval forces. That means they would look into expanding their fleets to be useable in any form.

Also as for your supposed already exist ships let me go through them. The DP-20 does not exist and won't exist until sometime near the end of right after the OTL clone wars it is also from CEC a core world company that the Mid and Outer Rim is learning not to trust. The Marauder is not a missile ship as that was very much a modification made to the ship by the buyer not built to be that way and also from a core world company that can't be trusted. And now the best of the bunch the Carracks for one they would need to be very underarmed compared to their later models as the Regulations would keep them from having all the heavy weapons later models have. More importantly they are made by a small company that can't supply to everyone though it isn't a core world company so is better suited to expand and supply the rims.
 
Also, keep in mind that the MidRim at the moment is buying wargear left and right. The market is empty because the stock has been brought up.

So yeah, @Barondoctor you're right that these ships exist but that doesn't mean that any world can buy them. Right now the MidRim, for the first time in centuries is expanding their SDF's massively after the Trade Federation hasn't been disarmed. Naboo showed the MidRim that the Core, the usual protector of the MidRim, wouldn't lift a finger. Queen Amidala only managed to free her world because she hired a bunch of pirates and gave them commissions (very English of her by the way). That was a wake-up call, the Core won't help so who will help?

This situation will stay that way at least for a few years. Mostly because the more established Big Names need to change their production lines. They had warships in stock but they are now all sold, they change the production to the new demand but at the moment there is a small window for ships like the Vulkan Corvette. If you manage to use this window, you will make a name as a midsize company that sells good ships.
 
Plus it also allows other companies in the Rims to expand and fill the military equipment requirements as ell. That means they can expand and with those companies the Rims now have a very good and experience military-industrial complex developed.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Havalt300 on Dec 11, 2020 at 6:53 AM, finished with 54 posts and 26 votes.
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is exploration ships an option to develop. my memories have left me with an imprecation that only decent ones are jedi exploration ships and for the normal crews there pointless ie no force voodoo. to be fair could also be couse there no decenjt scout droids in this time as well
 
cageorks said:
is exploration ships an option to develop. my memories have left me with an imprecation that only decent ones are jedi exploration ships and for the normal crews there pointless ie no force voodoo. to be fair could also be couse there no decenjt scout droids in this time as well
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There are normal exploration ships. It is just that the Jedi explorer corps is the best around. They are the only or even the largest if I remember right. Companies pay and map out routes on their own. It is just extremely expensive and super dangerous to do. It is also slow as hell to do. But we would only build what we are asked to build we do not have the power or size to make our own stuff unless we have a contract for it.
 
Its very much the argument of Specialist kit vs Generalist (Specialist is better at one specific thing but really expensive to make and only sells in a limited number... Generalist is cheaper to both produce and in Profits earned but avoids the issue of low sales as it can be used for alot of things...
 
cageorks said:
is exploration ships an option to develop. my memories have left me with an imprecation that only decent ones are jedi exploration ships and for the normal crews there pointless ie no force voodoo. to be fair could also be couse there no decenjt scout droids in this time as well
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There was the Civilian Astrogation Corps, whose job was to make sure that the hyperlane charts were up to date. They used the CEC's Jumpmaster-5000.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
There was the Civilian Astrogation Corps, whose job was to make sure that the hyperlane charts were up to date. They used the CEC's Jumpmaster-5000.
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i did not actually know that and thanks for the link as well

Deltamaster said:
Its very much the argument of Specialist kit vs Generalist (Specialist is better at one specific thing but really expensive to make and only sells in a limited number... Generalist is cheaper to both produce and in Profits earned but avoids the issue of low sales as it can be used for alot of things...
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true i just did not do much background check on pre empire era exploration ships so i assumed there was untapped market that sometimes that makes specialist market way more profitable. lack research makes one stumble
 
Just placing the tally of votes down
Adhoc vote count started by Uhtread on Dec 13, 2020 at 2:18 PM, finished with 77 posts and 28 votes.
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And the leader in terms of votes is quite obvious.
 
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