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Star Wars: Ship Designer Quest (1.5)

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Maybe something like this if we're doing it all in-house design-wise. Probably will bump production back a few turns since we'd still have to get the components produced though.

[] Plan DIY
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(2B) Basic Blaster
-[](Research)(3B) Basic Shielding
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep

I figure we'd need another turn before starting the prototype unless we start making it before we have the components in hand. Then it might be quicker to try and finish the blaster design this turn then start to make it and the prototype next turn.
 
What are we missing in terms of parts for the courier? Also, how much longer do we have before the end of the submission period for this competition?
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
What are we missing in terms of parts for the courier? Also, how much longer do we have before the end of the submission period for this competition?
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We have everything we need but we might want to add a little bit more. I'm still for forgoing shields, but I think we should definitely slap on a blaster and maybe an astromech or something because we are way under budget and could afford something like that.

Theoretically we could start now if we wanted though, we have the basic parts. I don't know if we're allowed to add stuff after we start prototyping or not?
 
Im thinking maybe lets do utility craft since its a 50 point project ?

It should be also helpful if we want to do fighters and bombers later and its always useful so it should be possible to be a steady work and money thing in the future is the other point . We are starting from the basics anyway.

How many years before the clone wars was the naboo crisis ? Like 10 years right or im imagining stuff ? Honestly wouldnt mind it being more than that so we have time to build up more and for the anakin/padme relationship to be abit more realistic .
 
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Ehbon said:
I don't know if we're allowed to add stuff after we start prototyping or not?
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Normally you would, but this time you're working with a timeline. Maximum two turns, then you're too late for the procurement.

atrophy said:
Like 10 years right or im imagining stuff ? Honestly wouldnt mind it being more than that so we have time to build up more and for the anakin/padme relationship to be abit more realistic .
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Around ten years is right.

The Anakin / Padme relationship isn't any were near becoming an important part of this quest. In fact, there is a chance that one or both of them die, depending on the dice.
 
Jax said:
Around ten years is right.

The Anakin / Padme relationship isn't any were near becoming an important part of this quest. In fact, there is a chance that one or both of them die, depending on the dice.
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Don't rejoice about how this may derail palps yet.

Even if anikan were to be taken out of the picture, that would just mean palps would have to hunt for a promising enough apprentice.
 
Since we need to be done with a prototype in 2 turns max for our bid I'd suggest we start prototyping immediately. QM said we can't add anything new after we start prototyping so anything we'd buy or research this turn isn't useful for that deadline but will still be informative for the future. The prototype option also doesn't show progress needed but does say it will take some time. With 3B on the prototype this turn we'd hopefully set ourselves within 8B of completing the project and also might give us an estimate for progress to completion. 83% odds we finish the blaster research this turn and see how component manufacture works (same turn availability, next turn, longer…) and costing.

[] Plan rapid prototyping
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(2B) Basic Blaster
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep
-[]Production)(3B) Begin the Prototype
 
You really just need the 2B for the Prototype @KarmaA. In this chase, as with the Upkeep, you don't need to roll any die. This is only the chase if a Progress counter is there. So your plan has 1 Budget free to use.
 
Feel a little like sideshow bob with those rakes :D

[] Plan eventually it'll be a lightbulb!
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(2B) Basic Blaster
-[](Research)(1B) Basic Shielding
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep
-[]Production)(2B) Begin the Prototype
 
[ ] Plan Marketability
-[ ][Design][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Research][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Research][2B] Basic Blaster
-[ ][Production][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Production][3B] Ask for Shielding

What our father said brought up a point that we have to consider:

It's not enough to just design a functional courier, we have to make it and sell it well enough to beat out everyone else in the competition. And while it's true that as just a courier it doesn't need shields or weapons, an utter lack of them is going to stand out to any buyers. Particularly if the FDP is used to running couriers with guns and shields it's likely to be a significant institutional hurdle to overcome if we want them to buy one without either of those, especially if the other shipyards are making a more traditional ship with them included.

I think we can get away with a weaker in-house Blaster. While it's never going to be as good (or cheap) as a stock system of the market, the courier isn't supposed to really get into fights, and it will only take 60 points to finish production of our own, compared to the 200 it would take to buy them.

As for shields though, I think we should buy those. It's going to take roughly the same points as developing them in house, but we know that our current shields are worse than market standard. With our spare cost on the courier we should be able to eat the price of buying them pretty easily.
 
For our next product after the Courier, can we make a (my) cheap P/SDF fighter? Build it for customization potential with an overbuilt reactor and even a stock main armament of blaster cannons won't make a dent in sales.

Electronics might be a concern, maybe
 
Question, if we were to acquire something this turn could we prototype with it on the same turn? Like if we went all in on buying a blaster, could we add it to our prototype right away?
 
@Jax Quick clarification question on the ship stats.

You've said that Cost and Compartment are stats we want to keep low, since the former is how much the contractor is willing to pay and the latter is a hard-cap on what we can fit in the hull.

Where does Special Compartment fit in with the rest? Is it a hard-cap where if we reach 10 Special Compartments we can't add any more, no matter how much "normal" Compartments we have left? Or is it more like Speed or Manuverablility where the contractor is asking us for 10 Special Compartment in the ship, and if we can get 15 in the design we've delivered a ship that's even better than what they asked for?
 
7th Hex said:
@Jax Quick clarification question on the ship stats.

You've said that Cost and Compartment are stats we want to keep low, since the former is how much the contractor is willing to pay and the latter is a hard-cap on what we can fit in the hull.

Where does Special Compartment fit in with the rest? Is it a hard-cap where if we reach 10 Special Compartments we can't add any more, no matter how much "normal" Compartments we have left? Or is it more like Speed or Manuverablility where the contractor is asking us for 10 Special Compartment in the ship, and if we can get 15 in the design we've delivered a ship that's even better than what they asked for?
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QM already answered that one prior, here ya go. I take 'needing a good reason why' to mean that adding more special compartment slots probably takes away from regular compartment space.

Jax said:
I'm not sure what you wish to know here? If you are referring to the customer's wishes then he doesn't wish more than 10 points being sunk into Special Compartments. What these are is up to you. If you only buy one Cargo Modul that that is fine, our you can use it. You can even exceed the value of 10 but you better have a good reason why
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Ehbon said:
Question, if we were to acquire something this turn could we prototype with it on the same turn? Like if we went all in on buying a blaster, could we add it to our prototype right away?
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Yes, anything that is finished/brought in the same turn can be put into the prototype.
7th Hex said:
Where does Special Compartment fit in with the rest?
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It's the category were you put anything and everything not fitting in the other categories. The Cargo Modul is such an example of it.

By the way, you can excite the Compartment number the customer has given to you. It just changes how the ship looks on the inside. If you stay below the wishes you get a nice setup such as in the Millenium Falcon. If you go above it, you get a submarine from WW2. Workable but not comfortable. It's similar to Cost.
 
Jax said:
Yes, anything that is finished/brought in the same turn can be put into the prototype.

It's the category were you put anything and everything not fitting in the other categories. The Cargo Modul is such an example of it.

By the way, you can excite the Compartment number the customer has given to you. It just changes how the ship looks on the inside. If you stay below the wishes you get a nice setup such as in the Millenium Falcon. If you go above it, you get a submarine from WW2. Workable but not comfortable. It's similar to Cost.
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so basicly the furhter under target we go the more luxurious the ship's interior is gonna be or can be.
 
KarmaA said:
[] Plan DIY
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(2B) Basic Blaster
-[](Research)(3B) Basic Shielding
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep
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Alright, given new information I'm just gonna leap off of this one and create a couple of plans that I think could represent the various options we have here to get started in time. I get the feeling that if we want to get the prototype done in time we have to start now, though QM feel free to correct me if that is incorrect. That said, I'm just going to work off that assumption for now.

First off, I don't think we actually can reasonably budget out and buy a stock Blaster in time. It takes an average of 4 budget to even sift through the bureaucratic red tape for weapons in general, and we know that looking for more specific stuff costs even more. If we wanted to specifically search for a Blaster, at best we'd probably also need to spend 4 budget, but realistically would be looking at 5 or even 6. We just plainly don't have the time for that, from what I can see, given that we probably have to start prototyping now.

With that in mind, our best bet is probably finishing the research on our own Blaster and slapping that on our prototype build. We won't have the production facilities to mass produce it yet, but I figure that researching our own blaster will at least allow us to make one of said blaster for the prototype submission.

Likewise, for Shielding... at best—for both the Research version and the outsourcing version—it will take us at least 2 Budget. Realistically, it'll probably take us 3 Budget to successfully complete either of those.

Upkeep wise, we need to spend at least 2 Budget to upkeep two out of three departments to get either of those things, but we'll probably want to spend the full 3 as an extra 1 Budget is unlikely to make a huge difference in regards to what we can potentially accomplish.

[] Plan Alex Mercer
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep
-[][Research][3B] Basic Blaster
-[][Production][2B] Begin the Prototype construction

This is probably our safest bet for actually completing the prototype and having something defensive to offer, very good odds that we complete the Blaster research this turn and slap it on the prototype in time for the competition.

[] Plan Alex Mercer 2: Electric Boogaloo
-[](Design)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Research)(1B)Upkeep
-[](Production)(1B) Upkeep
-[][Research][2B] Basic Blaster
-[][Production][1B] Ask for Ship Accessories
-[][Production][2B] Begin the Prototype construction

Alternatively we could play it a bit risky like this, and try to get both the Blaster and something else to slap on the ship. Still fairly decent odds that we get the Blaster done in time, and... well, a chance that we get something else as well. Personally I would have preferred to try and specifically seek an Astromech as an accessory, but it seems like specific searches like that cost a bit more cash that we just don't have.

Regardless, it seems like we're looking at the shield-less, armored version of the Courier no matter what we do, unless we're willing to drop Blaster and go all in on Shield... but that would have a lower chance of succeeding in time so I really don't want to do that. I suppose that isn't too bad, the armor option does appear to be pretty good, and if we can get a Blaster on there as well we will have some measure of self-defense covered. If we can even further slap on a good accessory, we might be able to bring something special to the table that the other competitors for the Courier Service job weren't expecting that could tilt things in our favor.
 
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Wait, we've been told that we have only two turns left before the contest deadline. So this should be one of them right? And we've only got one more turn after this?

If we go for full in-house production this turn we aren't going to be able to put anything on the courier, not even the blaster. Not only does it take turns to roll for and design the gun, we then also need to spend turns and budget to build the production line. If we want even a blaster on this we need to buy it.
Jax said:
The part itself would cost around the same amount in a design. But you will need to set up everything from the ground. That will take a number of turns, just to add a part that isn't performing in the same category then what the market offers. At the moment the market is the better option.
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[ ] Plan Name Brand Marketability
-[ ][Design][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Research][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Production][1B] Upkeep
-[ ][Production][4B] Ask for Weapons
-[ ][Production][1B] Ask for Shielding

This plan should hopefully get us a gun this turn, or at least put us within 1B of it so we can throw it into the prototype right out of the box. Asking for shields won't pass this turn, but it should get us closer to passing so we can finish it next turn and at least get a sense of what they will cost and the compartments they will take up.

My main worry about shields or astromech droids is that they could take up special compartment slots too.
 
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7th Hex said:
Wait, we've been told that we have only two turns left before the contest deadline. So this should be one of them right? And we've only got one more turn after this?

If we go for full in-house production this turn we aren't going to be able to put anything on the courier, not even the blaster. Not only does it take turns to roll for and design the gun, we then also need to spend turns and budget to build the production line. If we want even a blaster on this we need to buy it.
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Anything we complete this turn can go on the prototype this turn, which was one of the questions that was asked earlier. As for the post you quoted, I am fairly certain that is in regards to the actual final product specifically. This is a prototype, we aren't mass producing a blaster yet because we aren't mass producing a ship yet, thus I figured it was more than reasonable that so long as we finish the research on a blaster we can probably make the singular version of it that we need for the prototype. (After all, how would we have researched the Blaster if we didn't even have a prototype model of it on hand to test the design?)

The deadline is for having a prototype that we can submit to the competition for the spot of our local Courier Service's signature ship, not the deadline for having the entire model of ship ready to produce and ship out to customers. At least, from what I've gathered.

Also, if we wanted to use Production to ask for a Blaster to slap on our ship, we would have to make a custom write-in searching for specifically that and run it by the QM to see if that is an acceptable cost/option—and we know that asking for a specific kind of weapon takes more. Right now, all we know is the cost for inquiring about ship-based weapons in general but that could probably be anything from missiles to lasers.

I want to get started on prototyping this turn instead of next turn because when it was brought up how long we have to complete it we were told two turns maximum—after which we would be too late to enter. I reckon its best not to wait until the last minute to get started just in case there is some issues that crop up that extra time spent on the prototype could smooth over. The process doesn't even have a progress bar so we have no idea what it entails.

(If the QM is willing to clarify any of these things I would be very appreciative, but I think it is supposed to be a mystery to us.)
 
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Trying something fancy I saw in another thread. Have projects and what the probability for success would be for 1 to 4 dice.
Fingers crossed

Design
Project​
Curr​
Progress​
1D (%)​
2D (%)​
3D (%)​
4D (%)​
L. Freighter01001508396
H. Freighter01001508396
Utility050508798> 99
Corvette01500135080
Fighter01001508396
Research
Project​
Curr​
Progress​
1D (%)​
2D (%)​
3D (%)​
4D (%)​
C5 Hyperdrive05000000
B Sublight025000220
B Hull Plate01001508396
B Shielding592000185784
B Blaster4210042839799
B Laser02000< 11750
Production
Project​
Curr​
Progress​
1D (%)​
2D (%)​
3D (%)​
4D (%)​
Hyperdrives050508798> 99
Sublight Engines050508798> 99
Plating0257597> 99> 99
Shielding01500135080
Weapons02000<11750


edit: as an FYI for 5 dice shielding (or any 0/150 project) has ~94% chance of succeeding.
 
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7th Hex said:
we then also need to spend turns and budget to build the production line.
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7th Hex said:
My main worry about shields or astromech droids is that they could take up special compartment slots too.
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The setting up of the production line is only needed for the serial production. For the prototype you don't need it.

Astromech would be added under special compartment but not take away Compartment, it would only add to cost. Shields would add to both and be counted under Special Compartment, this will change in the future.

Ehbon said:
The deadline is for having a prototype that we can submit to the competition for the spot of our local Courier Service's signature ship, not the deadline for having the entire model of ship ready to produce and ship out to customers. At least, from what I've gathered.
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Ehbon said:
The process doesn't even have a progress bar so we have no idea what it entails.
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You're correct. The deadline is only for the prototype. If you had decided to develop your own ship without a procurement process in the background you would've all the time in the galaxy.

It doesn't has a progress bar because it will turn to a sub turn.
 
Alright if we are able to submit a prototype for the contract without having the production lines set up I am fine with going for an in house blaster. It's not like a courier is meant to get into combat anyway. I still think we should look into buying shields for it though, in order to sell it better and get more profit to invest in new tech and designs. Not to mention already having a contract for shields on hand if we ever want to use them for another ship.

We've just gotten in character feedback from our father, who likely knows much more about business and actually selling a ship than we do, and his first reaction to us pitching the speed+armor concept was: "But with no shields, won't it be seen as vulnerable?" This is the kind of first impression we are going to have to overcome to get it to sell. Not just vs the other companies vying for the FDP contract, but also later in the open market against every other ship in the light freighter/courier market. Shields are currently the standard in the market, so anyone who looks at our design with a lack of them is likely going to have a first impression of being more vulnerable, made worse by the fact that our gun is certain to be worse than the market standard, so if anyone wants to improve that part they are going to have to pay for aftermarket upgrades out of their own pocket.

Personally while I think the improved plating is nice, I don't have any particular attraction to it to the point where I feel we have to use it, especially on the ship we're designing right now. Comparing it to the standard plating it is twice as expensive, eats up Compartment space, and fills up half our allotment of Special Compartments. And in exchange for that we get an single Armor re-roll, for a ship that isn't supposed to be fighting, and doesn't even have a minimum armor level request from the customer in the first place.

So here's what I'm suggesting we do with Plan Marketability:

This turn we spend 2 Budget on finishing our Blaster design and 3 Budget on looking at the market for shields. We could spend the 3 Budget researching our own shields, but I think that with our already sub-standard Blaster we will want the market standard shield to have our courier look better. It also means that we have more budget to spend on design. I'd prefer to net open more than one production line until we have secured a steady source of income. This gives us an 80% chance of finishing the blaster(the important part) and a 50-50 chance on finishing the shields.

Next turn, accounting for the upkeep and prototyping cost we should have 2 Budget left to spend, which should be enough to finish off buying shields from the market with the progress made from the previous turn. Alternatively we might have flubbed the Blaster roll enough that we need the 2 Budget on it instead, so we put the budget there, run with the fallback plan of the Special Plating and just try to push through any negative impressions caused by the lack of a shield.

Finally the mini-turn. If we have somehow not managed to get shields off the market with 5 budget, or just end up SOL with no shield taking up less than 6 Special Compartments, we still have the fallback plan of using the armor instead and just trying to overcome any negative first impression.
 
7th Hex said:
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I have two issues with this first and foremost, one is that it pushes that prototyping to the last turn it is possible to do so, and second is that adding shields properly might take up enough compartment space like the other modules (10-15 space) that we have to drop having a second sublight engine. Which is currently really the only thing we'd be able to hold over competitors.

Sure we might be able to have blasters and a shield, which will make us not a standout in the negative sense of not having one of those things, but we will probably be just like all the other submissions for the courier job—only worse because we'd have a subpar Blaster and be one of the slower options.

I find it unlikely that we would win, in those circumstances. Especially since we've been told that the standard light freighter shield is wholly unremarkable, so it's probably not going to make a huge difference in any destructive testing in comparison.

On the other hand, a dual-engine armored variant without any shield to speak of is noteworthy if only because it runs contrary to expectations; and I feel like we would have a serious chance to outperform the competition during whatever the different testing methods they wish to use are.

Oh and for the record I don't expect to be able to add a proper astromech to the prototype regardless, I'm just vaguely interested in seeing what other ship accessories are out there. Who knows, there could be something small that uses only compartment space but would be really useful to a cargo ship.
 
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