Star Wars General Discussion Thread
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BBadolato
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Hey, you spoiled the surprise of the Extra Extra Special Edition version of the Star Wars trilogy, where their not just going to cut Han from ANH, but instead have Lando replace Han from ESB onward.
Arthur Frayn
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That's the version George would put on after most of the guests had left Skywalker Ranch, except for a very select few...
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I hear that version actually included a detailed description of how the Dark Side came to be and what balancing the Force entails. George actually intended it for the original version but Disney forced him to cut it.
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My contention re "the Dark Side is pollution which has no place in the Force" is that, besides never being stated in any of the Legends stuff I've read (I think fifteen novels, three runs of comics and a few standalones besides), the setting mechanics would seem to jive against it.
The Galaxy, or even the Force itself separately, doesn't have a Creation. It's just another galaxy where life arose by the same processes, only there's this energy field. Ergo sentient life brought with it all the vices and capacities developed in the struggle to survive, and it's easy for me to accept that these would be reflected by the Force. Whereas if it's magic cancer or someone did a ritual one dark night, that's kind of a harder sell to me because of the above.
Admittedly I've also always been bugged by how nebulous "bringing Balance to the Force" is. I guess it just means destroying the Sith, because in neither timeline is there any other apparent effect on the Galaxy at large.
Meanwhile, Rebel shippers watching the epilogue of TBB like
The Galaxy, or even the Force itself separately, doesn't have a Creation. It's just another galaxy where life arose by the same processes, only there's this energy field. Ergo sentient life brought with it all the vices and capacities developed in the struggle to survive, and it's easy for me to accept that these would be reflected by the Force. Whereas if it's magic cancer or someone did a ritual one dark night, that's kind of a harder sell to me because of the above.
Admittedly I've also always been bugged by how nebulous "bringing Balance to the Force" is. I guess it just means destroying the Sith, because in neither timeline is there any other apparent effect on the Galaxy at large.
Meanwhile, Rebel shippers watching the epilogue of TBB like
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The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
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In other news, things I certainly did not expect is the fukkin Habsburg opinion on the Star Wars discourse
View: https://twitter.com/EduardHabsburg/status/1789332762299707415
Frankly while I'm something of an apologist for Ep1's merits and the potential that could have been good, I think he is being a little liberal on the rose tinted glasses and the prior public perception of the film, especially in the fandom.
I also disagree vehemently with the use of fanfiction as a pejorative but w/e.
View: https://twitter.com/EduardHabsburg/status/1789332762299707415
Frankly while I'm something of an apologist for Ep1's merits and the potential that could have been good, I think he is being a little liberal on the rose tinted glasses and the prior public perception of the film, especially in the fandom.
I also disagree vehemently with the use of fanfiction as a pejorative but w/e.
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Conversely, with TPM I'm like "well at least Abrams understood that you're meant to have a protagonist." And by the end of RotS it's "at the very least he'd give you a close-up on Obi-Wan having a big sad reaction".
And to balance out the pejorative speak of fanfic, here's some, ah, self-promotion! Wrote a little one-shot around my OC Zudea, and I've added a little to Lost in Stardust and Ryloth Besieged.
Also I'm spending too much time around compulsive shippers, because off the epilogue of The Bad Batch I've got some minor thoughts spinning about Omega/Miara Larte. Particularly if Omega joins Phoenix Squadron and they're both A-Wing pilots.
And to balance out the pejorative speak of fanfic, here's some, ah, self-promotion! Wrote a little one-shot around my OC Zudea, and I've added a little to Lost in Stardust and Ryloth Besieged.
Also I'm spending too much time around compulsive shippers, because off the epilogue of The Bad Batch I've got some minor thoughts spinning about Omega/Miara Larte. Particularly if Omega joins Phoenix Squadron and they're both A-Wing pilots.
Axslashel
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For 70% of the film it is Qui-Gon Jinn.
The Englanderish
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Tbh having a singular protagonist isn't really an essential function I'd say Ep1 is poorer without. It's a tool in the box, and ensembles can absolutely work. Ep1's issues are other factors - direction, pacing, dialogue and so on.
Well here's the scene where it's introduced:
"He was trained in the Jedi arts - my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord."
"Impossible... the Sith have been extinct for a millennium!"
"I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing..."
"Ah - hard to see, the Dark Side is!"
"We will use all our resources to unravel this mystery - we will discover the identity of your attacker. May the Force be with you."
"Master Qui-Gon - more to say have you?"
"With your permission, my Master - I've encountered a vergence in the Force."
"A vergence, you say..."
"Located around a... person?"
"A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of Midichlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived by the Midichlorians."
"You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force... You believe it's this.. boy?"
"I don't presume to-"
"But you do! Revealed your opinion is!"
"I request the boy be tested, Master."
"Ohh... - trained as a Jedi you request for him, hm?"
"Finding him was the will of the Force - I have no doubt of that."
"Bring him before us, then."
These 2 subjects here seem to be treated entirely separately - "somehow Sith have returned", then next topic "and also I've found this space jesus".
Doesn't sound like any of them connect this "bring balance" goal to the Sith in any way, it's some kinda entirely separate, utopian spiritual goal of theirs or something - one which they probably generally think it's important, but don't seem to prioritize that much (while Quigon's more invested in it).
They don't frame it as "the Sith have returned, and maybe this messiah will provide salvation", even though that's the plot, and that's how it's treated later.*
And Quigon says "it wasn't a coincidence", but not in the context of "finding him at the same time as that bad guy attacked us / this whole invasion crisis started", it's kinda just treated independently.
The notion that he might've been directly after the space jesus instead of "the Queen" isn't really considered by anyone either:
"What was it?"
"I'm not sure... but it was well-trained in the Jedi arts. My guess is it was after the Queen."
"Young Skywalker's fate will be decided later."
"Now is not the time for this - the Senate is voting for a new Supreme Chancellor, and Queen Amidala is returning home - which puts pressure on the Federation and could widen the confrontation."
"And draw out the Queen's attacker..."
"Go with the Queen to Naboo, and discover the identity of this dark warrior - this is the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith."
"Ok let's forget about this subject for a bit, and focus on this completely other unrelated more urgent subject first. Definitely was attacking the Queen, no other theories are conceivable."
*And yeah in the 3rd movie then it's explicitly framed like this:
"With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?"
"So the Prophecy says."
"A Prophecy, that misread could have been..."
Seems quite inconsistent, and the scenes from ep1 have character lucidity problems on top of that.
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But without having any real arc that I can think of.
I should've specified that I didn't mean a singular protagonist - it's more that I don't think anyone in the ensemble manages to be a protagonist. Padme has a character arc of sorts but I feel shut out of it by the hiding of who the queen really is (and granted, the direction doesn't help there because she's made to be so blank up until she reaches the Senate).
Equally, I think Obi-Wan would benefit a lot from having an arc in the film - "without the Council's approval if I must" feels like it should come out of a conflict with Qui-Gon which they resolve. Apart from anything else, it'd add a little more emotional impetus to his and Anakin's dynamic.
None of which is to overlook problems with the direction, pacing, dialogue and so on, of course.
Random thought: I'm a little surprised that Padme wanting to avoid confrontation with the Separatists, despite being certain that Dooku (head of the movement) wants her dead, is convinced that negotiating with the Separatists (with Dooku?) will work. There's no discussion of why he might want her dead and whether the wanting her dead might be addressed via negotiations or some other compromise. Maybe Corde might've taken the hit?
Don't think it's got any pacing issues, even though that seems to be a frequent talking point.
The dialogue does get very laconic at times (and it's not always clear whether that's on purpose or just phoned in), although doesn't enter clunk and cheeseball territories like some of the exchanges from 3 and most of the rom scenes in 2.
TPM has protagonists, and the idea that it's supposed to be "a singular one" is based on a misunderstanding from the Plinkett videos where such a point wasn't really made - or, to the extent it was, it was mired in self-contradictions and unclear phrasings, so not really a solid point either way.
Later he repeated the same type of confusion when talking about TLJ's "A plots B plots" and that whole bit - where it wasn't clear whether he's criticizing the fact that Reylukylo wasn't unambiguously "the main" plot (even though it was?), or that "all of them are C plots" i.e. don't have enough weight or something.
Bunch of confused, contradictory points that don't really warrant any deference.
And Obiwan does have sad close-ups in the movie, wut?
Ah wait, new post lol
Well there is a conflict - as short as it lasts.
Quigon's "arc" can be easily boiled down to "agent on a mission against 2ndary villains -> finds out the conspiracy goes way deeper involving the primary villains -> discovers messiah who's supposed to defeat the primary threat, and wants to prepare him for this task -> dies passing on this baton to Obiwan",
however there are some problems, not the least of which is the one I've just highlighted a few posts ago - i.e. the way how some of these elements which should've been treated as related and interconnected, are instead treated like completely separate concurrent plots. (Within TPM specifically.)
And yes, reasonable point about the "negotiations with Dooku" part - there are some answers that could be conceived of, since nothing's really known about these "Separatists" and how singularly they follow Dooku as their cult leader vs. maybe have a mind of their own, so perhaps Padme thinks it's possible to try and reason with them, and not so much Dooku who may or may not be attempting dirty under the table tactics?
But then yeah a lot about that whole part in ep2 is really unclear and at times contradictory, as elaborated a few posts ago, so it's entirely possible this part doesn't really make any sense either.
Well there is a conflict - as short as it lasts.
Quigon's "arc" can be easily boiled down to "agent on a mission against 2ndary villains -> finds out the conspiracy goes way deeper involving the primary villains -> discovers messiah who's supposed to defeat the primary threat, and wants to prepare him for this task -> dies passing on this baton to Obiwan",
however there are some problems, not the least of which is the one I've just highlighted a few posts ago - i.e. the way how some of these elements which should've been treated as related and interconnected, are instead treated like completely separate concurrent plots. (Within TPM specifically.)
And yes, reasonable point about the "negotiations with Dooku" part - there are some answers that could be conceived of, since nothing's really known about these "Separatists" and how singularly they follow Dooku as their cult leader vs. maybe have a mind of their own, so perhaps Padme thinks it's possible to try and reason with them, and not so much Dooku who may or may not be attempting dirty under the table tactics?
But then yeah a lot about that whole part in ep2 is really unclear and at times contradictory, as elaborated a few posts ago, so it's entirely possible this part doesn't really make any sense either.
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Chloe Sullivan
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Please stop double posting.
Rule 5: Don’t Make it Harder For Us to Do Our Jobs
Stop double posting stop packing everything into 1 post break up your post into segments wait no don't post segmented posts stop quoting stop not-quoting cause then it's not clear what you're replying to and that's confusing wait no don't quote
Wanna reply to like 4 different posts, pack it all into 1 post, wait no that's spaghetti do it in separate posts, wait no that's double-posting quad-posting do it in 1, wait no that's spaghetti posting do it separately, wait no
whatever lol
Edit: Deleted oversized photo
Wanna reply to like 4 different posts, pack it all into 1 post, wait no that's spaghetti do it in separate posts, wait no that's double-posting quad-posting do it in 1, wait no that's spaghetti posting do it separately, wait no
whatever lol
Edit: Deleted oversized photo
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Star Wars General Discussion Thread Discussion
I can't tell if you're being wilfully obtuse or not and it's very concerning. But on the assumption that you're not I will answer after please leave me alone. We have very different views of the series and I do not think there is anything productive with arguing with a brick wall for either of...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Anyway,
Hm the big huge fleet at the end was "not enough" and "not something JJ was interested in"?
It's true that specifically in TFA, the mantra was technically "find Luke to light the spark of the Resistance", so the common public doesn't seem to have been part of that equation.
However, the notion that a "public uprising" is a new idea to this series, is not in fact true - it was a central part of ep4, and then subsequently got dropped and forgotten about in the next 2:
"Holding her is dangerous - if word of this gets out, it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate."
"I've traced the Rebel spies to her - now she is my only link to finding their secret base."
"She'll die before she'll tell you anything."
"Leave that to me. Send a distress signal, and then inform the Senate that all aboard were killed."
"The Rebellion will continue to gain support in the Imperial Senate-"
"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us; I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the old Republic have been swept away."
"That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
"The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line - fear of this battle station."
"I would like you to be my guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational; no star system will dare oppose the Emperor now."
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
"Not after we demonstrate the power of this station."
At most one could say they don't specifically mention "the most commonest of common people" but rather talk about the "Senate" and "star systems" - however no one said that the Senate didn't represent the people anymore (these are still the "last remnant of the democratic Republic", after all), and "commoners" like Biggs who leave home and join the army appear to make up a good deal of the Rebellion's military force;
and who's gonna fear getting blown up for stepping out of line acc. to Tarkin, just those local systems' government workers and nobody else?
So yeah it is pretty much "the people" - the Empire has to maintain good PR, tries to stop depending on that by building a superweapon, dissolves the structure that they had been relying on previously, and then the superweapon is gone and they appear to be in big trouble.
However in 5-6 this angle is completely dropped, that uprising is never mentioned, the Empire seems as strong as ever, and now the whole thing just becomes "will the rebel army defeat the imperial army" and "will the Jedi win the duel against the
So then here in 8-9, the "public uprising" / "new system recruits" element gets brought back, however in a slightly different form - now the FO is unmistakably evil (or at least only appeals to extremist "order" fetishist ideologues) and the public uprising is not gonna occur via everyone realizing how evil the FO is and starting to support the Resistance, but rather, I suppose, by overcoming their fear or apathy and being "sparked" by the Resistance's heroism and successes and "hope". (Who in turn need to get sparked by finding Luke again.)
Which is just a slightly different version of how a public uprising can start/emerge/grow, i.e. driven by knowledge vs. driven by motivation, however not some kinda radically new concept here.
At the end of the day though, what's the huge crucial difference whether the "public joins in or not"? If all these common people can ever bring to the table is just additional forces for the Resistance army, then you'll just get a bigger Rebel fleet to fight against the Empire fleet - and in the end it'll still come down to big battles, perhaps mixed with some other stuff like local crowd insurrections or whatnot.
And TLJ doesn't do anything to imply otherwise - it's all either about who'll come to help them out on Crait,
or I suppose new people developing Force powers and then providing additional telekinesis support? Or what else is that broom boy gonna do?
Then your interpretation of all this as "When I say try something new, I mean instead of falling into the cylical: 'The Empire rises up but plucky heroes stop them because something something the power of love' That you have to get the people as a whole to rise up, or we'll just be here again in two movies." doesn't really hold up - just because Ep5-6 stop talking about the "public uprising" doesn't automatically mean that "because there was no public uprising, that's the reason the bad guys manage to come back 20-30 years later".
Such a point just simply isn't found anywhere in the films, and the ST or TLJ never imply such a thing either.
And how would that make sense? A public who rose up 20 years ago won't automatically do so a generation later, nor can it be guaranteed to "stay vigilant" after their successful revolution - so it's not like that's some kinda "more reliable or permanent" victory method?
And finally, what's up with the "then we get the kid with the force power and it's all very. 'The Force is for everyone not just these weird space monks who keep killing half the galaxy because one of them has a no very good bad day.'" talk?
Who said Broom Boy couldn't go dark and kill half the galaxy cause of a bad day, what makes these ""common people"" immune from this risk that affects all these ""weird space monks""?
What are you even basing this on lol?
However that specific point aside, well, as already said earlier, yes: something like a whole mass awakening of new Force talentists, like that Buffy ending, would've indeed been something not done in the movies before;
or, I should say, not in the "Empire won and there's only like 2-3 Jedi left" eras, cause before that there were tons of kids all over the place who were being discovered with innate powers LOL
However in either case it already happened in a singular instance in ESB, so wouldn't have been that fundamentally groundbreaking at the end of the day - and certainly wouldn't've amounted to any sort of "take power from exclusive monk club and give it to THA PEOPLE" like you seem to think it would've done.
More like, just, you know - the background army of extras would've now also had some magicians in it, not just regular fighters.
Then at the end of this post you say something about how "Rey was willing to make the Jedi into something new, unlike Kylo" and it's like, in what ways, and where was anything like this ever implied?
Two points here,
1) This almost would've been true, had TFA not presented the "parents left" plot point with such a level of gravitas and emphasis, and then included it in the "lightsaber Force vision" montage just to make sure no one mistook it for some banal "oh well, orphan on a backwater planet why not" thing.
However this inconsistency/retcon factor aside, I'd say both these versions of the Rey arc are about equally good - "mystery parents/origins tied to the main plot in some way", vs. "complete rando chosen by the Force for having a pure heart / limited attachment to staying home / etc.". It's just that TFA emphatically did the former, while TLJ disregarded it and went for the latter instead.
(Although even within TLJ, why would the cave pick such a weird and spooky way of conveying "your parents were random drunks"? Uhhhh, infinite mirror copies of Rey, 2 figures in the "mirror" fuse into 1, etc., and all that just meant..... "forget your parents they drank themselves to death on Jakku"?
So really, TLJ seems to be in quite a dissonance with itself here. Or it implies Kylo might be unreliable and not be telling the whole truth?)
2) Both want a similar combination of "do the right thing and save the world", "help friends", "live up to revered elder mentor figures", "fulfill mystical Force destiny that wants me to do all those things listed" - it's not like Luke just wanted to imitate his father while Rey just wants to do the right thing, so why misrepresent it in that fashion? Why exaggerate this supposed difference between them beyond any recognition?
In TLJ Rey just has to erase the "biological parents" entry from that list of "mentors to live up to", that's all that happens here really.
Rey never proceeds to go "f Luke f Han f Leia I'm my own person" or anything of that sort - that's more Kylo's philosophy, which he only starts after he begins to resent Snoke for chewing him out too hard.
3) There's some nuggets of truth to this point, cause Palpatine does come out of nowhere (narrative wise), and various aspects and details of his return left a bit to be desired in terms of execution, thus preventing it from being as convincing as it could've been - certain clunky lines early on (that've gone viral since then),
the "Palpatine is in fact his real family name, and he just banally fathered a son who then married and fathered Rey" seemed too mundane and in dissonance with the "I'm an ancient being died many times using cloning and spirit transference rituals" angle - should've been some spacier, spookier, occultier form of "parenthood" probably;
and then Rey's "dark side tendencies" hadn't been shown previously either, so this also kinda came out of nowhere.
(Not that Luke did in ANH either - the automatic/inherent danger of him slipping into the dark side was introduced to ESB as suddenly as the Emperor retcon, and that does indeed create a certain degree of discontinuity. However at least it's in the 2nd movie and not the 3rd?)
So is it reasonable to say that there's some weaknesses in the whole "emotional connection" and "not sufficiently set up in 7-8" department? Eh, sure.
However if in TFA the implied implication seemed to be that "Rey's parents have some spooky connection to Snoke or the rise of the FO, or something in that vein", and here the reveal is that Snoke = Palpatine puppet, then "parents had ties to Palpatine and left Rey on Jakku for that reason" is a reasonably natural pay-off to that set-up - tweakable details notwithstanding.
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Arthur Frayn
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Stop double posting stop packing everything into 1 post break up your post into segments wait no don't post segmented posts stop quoting stop not-quoting cause then it's not clear what you're replying to and that's confusing wait no don't quote
Wanna reply to like 4 different posts, pack it all into 1 post, wait no that's spaghetti do it in separate posts, wait no that's double-posting quad-posting do it in 1, wait no that's spaghetti posting do it separately, wait no
whatever lol
My dude all you have to do is look at everyone else's post on this forum, look at yours, and the difference is obvious. You post these long, stream of consciousness posts that break up other people's words into bite size chunks that you nitpick (that's spaghetti posting - rather than engaging with the overall point you at guy the details endlessly), or badly format thing so they're hard to follow, or post block quotes from the film in a different font, etc.
Like, there's a basic level of courtesy literally everyone else in this thread is extending to everyone by taking the time to compose our thoughts into a coherent argument and present those thoughts in a way that makes them easily understood.
You literally were just kicked from the thread for this exact same behavior, posting a little Britain .jpeg and going "lol whatever" demonstrates like, a profound lack of respect or awareness.
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You left Likes and thumb ups and upvotes on all the recent posts by "gman391", and yet you're trying to criticize me for being "stream of consciousness", and "not forming coherent enough arguments"? And claiming I'm worse in this department than "literally everyone else in this thread"?
Is this some kinda joke or what lol
Is this some kinda joke or what lol
Oh and btw yeah, I asked the mod why all the other spaghetti posters from those same pages weren't infracted or called out for the same behavior and post formatting, and the answer was basically "well I kinda looked through the pages and didn't find the other spaghettiposts quite disruptive enough - however if you do you should report them" - so yeah looks like these moderation decisions are rather subjective, arbitrary and unpredictable, and deferring to them as an arbiter of truth isn't quite the solid argument that you seem to think it is?
At best they just blindly follow whoever filed the first report, and I'm not reporting anyone here esp. for stuff like using blockquotes, so *shrug*
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King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
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Seven Days That Shook the Galaxy: The Tarkin Doctrine, the Dissolution of the Senate, and the Destruction of Alderaan - EmperorNorton150 - Star Wars - All Media Types [Archive of Our Own]
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
archiveofourown.org
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To actually clarify my point, "lacks a protagonist" is hyperbole but I think there is still a point to make. I think that TPM has an ensemble and some nominal protagonists, but none of whom do enough within the narrative, somewhat plotwise but more on the story/theme side of things. There's less conflict than there could be, especially in Padme accompanying Qui-Gon on Tatooine.
Potentially this would want an older Anakin, but I feel like there's something to be done with Obi-Wan coming to see the kid's worth and the value of going against the Council-approved way of doing things.
On a perhaps more minor note, I'd honestly have given a little more weight to the Senate's significance in people's minds, and how much faith they have in it based on hundreds of years of it working. Then that can hang over AotC a little more; the usual means of fixing problems can no longer be relied upon.
Edit: I think there's also an issue of Padme not suffering any challenge to her worldview before her faith in the Chancellor's office breaks. I feel like the invasion itself could do that, likewise the fact of finding themselves hunted in neutral territory.
Potentially this would want an older Anakin, but I feel like there's something to be done with Obi-Wan coming to see the kid's worth and the value of going against the Council-approved way of doing things.
On a perhaps more minor note, I'd honestly have given a little more weight to the Senate's significance in people's minds, and how much faith they have in it based on hundreds of years of it working. Then that can hang over AotC a little more; the usual means of fixing problems can no longer be relied upon.
Edit: I think there's also an issue of Padme not suffering any challenge to her worldview before her faith in the Chancellor's office breaks. I feel like the invasion itself could do that, likewise the fact of finding themselves hunted in neutral territory.
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Well that's pretty much what happens here in this scene:
"A communications disruption can mean only one thing - invasion."
Amidala: "The Federation would not dare go that far!"
Panaka: "The Senate would revoke their trade franchise - and they'd be finished."
"We must continue to rely on negotiation."
"Negotiation? We've lost all communications! And where are the Chancellor's ambassadors?"
"This is a dangerous situation, Your Highness. Our security volunteers will be no match against the battle-hardened Federation army."
"I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."
Other than that well yeah, that's like essentially just saying the movie could've used some tweaks and enhanced the focus and/or drama for various lead characters at certain points (or in general) - but that's quite far removed from "no protagonists" which is quite a hyperbole indeed, to say the least lol.
Obiwan spends some time being skeptical about Anakin's training, which is not clear whether it's due to blind conformity to the Council, or petty, personal jealousy reasons, or maybe some degree of personal insight that he has, and then he just decides to give that up and take Quigon's side, seemingly just to reconcile with him after that minor falling-out of theirs:
"Jar Jar is on his way to the Gungan city, Master."
"Good."
"Do you think the Queen's idea will work?"
"The Gungans will not be easily swayed - and we cannot use our power to help her."
"I'm... I'm sorry for my behaviour, Master; it's not my place to disagree with you about the boy.
And I am grateful you think I'm ready to take the trials!"
"You've been a good apprentice, Obi-Wan. And you're a much wiser man than I am - I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight."
And Quigon starts acting all humble and praising his wisdom here, but back when Obiwan was actually voicing disagreement he just reacted by getting grumpy about it? That's like some kinda cult leader behavior idk, just like Holdo.
So yeah that's not a particularly strong "arc"? Could've used some major tweaking? Plenty issues like this that can be brought up.
"A communications disruption can mean only one thing - invasion."
Amidala: "The Federation would not dare go that far!"
Panaka: "The Senate would revoke their trade franchise - and they'd be finished."
"We must continue to rely on negotiation."
"Negotiation? We've lost all communications! And where are the Chancellor's ambassadors?"
"This is a dangerous situation, Your Highness. Our security volunteers will be no match against the battle-hardened Federation army."
"I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."
Other than that well yeah, that's like essentially just saying the movie could've used some tweaks and enhanced the focus and/or drama for various lead characters at certain points (or in general) - but that's quite far removed from "no protagonists" which is quite a hyperbole indeed, to say the least lol.
Obiwan spends some time being skeptical about Anakin's training, which is not clear whether it's due to blind conformity to the Council, or petty, personal jealousy reasons, or maybe some degree of personal insight that he has, and then he just decides to give that up and take Quigon's side, seemingly just to reconcile with him after that minor falling-out of theirs:
"Jar Jar is on his way to the Gungan city, Master."
"Good."
"Do you think the Queen's idea will work?"
"The Gungans will not be easily swayed - and we cannot use our power to help her."
"I'm... I'm sorry for my behaviour, Master; it's not my place to disagree with you about the boy.
And I am grateful you think I'm ready to take the trials!"
"You've been a good apprentice, Obi-Wan. And you're a much wiser man than I am - I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight."
And Quigon starts acting all humble and praising his wisdom here, but back when Obiwan was actually voicing disagreement he just reacted by getting grumpy about it? That's like some kinda cult leader behavior idk, just like Holdo.
So yeah that's not a particularly strong "arc"? Could've used some major tweaking? Plenty issues like this that can be brought up.
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