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Son Quest (Dragon Ball)

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[X] Write-In: Contemplative: Youjust killed a person, who was trying to kill you. Who had a mother and father just like you. Who chose to become a murderous bandit. It was a mistake. But the intention was rightful... remembering the lessons of your tutors, you take a deep breath and meditate until you are at peace with what happened.
 
igfry said:
A great reason.
I would like to avoid a boring cliche protagonist. They're just too overdone.

[] Excited
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Its more that SV quest MC is either a calm, extremely nice and logical character or an extremely evil one.

I would like to play as someone in between. Nice and honorable enough to be protagonist, but also bloodthirsty and ruthless enough to slaughter his way to 'justice'.
 
[X] Write In: Saddened. Taking a life is a horrible thing but sometimes necessary when defending your life and those you are charged to protect. Even though it might be necessary it is not a good thing and it should never be an easy thing to do. While I would never want to take a life it is a burden that those who protect others must sometimes take if there is no other option.
 
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Trondason said:
@Leingod Does our Knack for Ki give us a fair chance of being able to use the Kamehameha after seeing it once like Goku can?
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In a word: yes. I'm going with the idea that the Kamehameha took 50 years for Roshi to develop because it's one of those things that seems incredibly simple if you can see it in action (and have the necessary understanding to comprehend what you're seeing), hence why everyone seems able to pick it up so easily (Goku gets a pass by being both a Saiyan and the protagonist, but both Krillin and Yamcha only seemed to need a couple months of practice to get it down). "Simple but effective" seems to be a core tenet of the Turtle School anyway, so I'd say it's fitting.
Of course, techniques like that tend to also fall into the category of "easy to learn, hard to master."
 
Leingod said:
In a word: yes. I'm going with the idea that the Kamehameha took 50 years for Roshi to develop because it's one of those things that seems incredibly simple if you can see it in action (and have the necessary understanding to comprehend what you're seeing), hence why everyone seems able to pick it up so easily (Goku gets a pass by being both a Saiyan and the protagonist, but both Krillin and Yamcha only seemed to need a couple months of practice to get it down). "Simple but effective" seems to be a core tenet of the Turtle School anyway, so I'd say it's fitting.
Of course, techniques like that tend to also fall into the category of "easy to learn, hard to master."
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I seem to recall that Krillen had one or two false starts when he first tried the Kamehameha. And when he did finally pull it off, Roshi remarked that it was weaker than if had taken the time to learn it properly.
 
Leingod said:
In a word: yes. I'm going with the idea that the Kamehameha took 50 years for Roshi to develop because it's one of those things that seems incredibly simple if you can see it in action (and have the necessary understanding to comprehend what you're seeing), hence why everyone seems able to pick it up so easily (Goku gets a pass by being both a Saiyan and the protagonist, but both Krillin and Yamcha only seemed to need a couple months of practice to get it down). "Simple but effective" seems to be a core tenet of the Turtle School anyway, so I'd say it's fitting.
Of course, techniques like that tend to also fall into the category of "easy to learn, hard to master."
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From what I remember, Roshi wasn't exactly one of Master Mutaito's best students. Neither was Shen either. And then by the time Piccolo showed up he and Shen were Mutaito's only surviving students and probably the only two humans alive that not only knew that ki was a thing but also have a clue on how to use it. The spending 50 years making the technique could very well be the result of Roshi's own incomplete training as well as his own lack of personal talent. Considering how of his previous set of students(Gohan and the Ox King),if the Kamehameha wave is so easy to learn, why was it that only Gohan had picked it up? And why was Roshi so surprised that so many others were picking it up so easily? There is very much a reason why Roshi called Krillin, Yamcha and Tien gifted martial artist prodigies after seeing how easily they learned it, they pretty much are and much more then either he or Shen ever were too.
 
GhostKing 666 said:
From what I remember, Roshi wasn't exactly one of Master Mutaito's best students. Neither was Shen either. And then by the time Piccolo showed up he and Shen were Mutaito's only surviving students and probably the only two humans alive that not only knew that ki was a thing but also have a clue on how to use it. The spending 50 years making the technique could very well be the result of Roshi's own incomplete training as well as his own lack of personal talent. Considering how of his previous set of students(Gohan and the Ox King),if the Kamehameha wave is so easy to learn, why was it that only Gohan had picked it up? And why was Roshi so surprised that so many others were picking it up so easily? There is very much a reason why Roshi called Krillin, Yamcha and Tien gifted martial artist prodigies after seeing how easily they learned it, they pretty much are and much more then either he or Shen ever were too.
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1. Roshi certainly, at least at the time that Goku traveled back in time and met him, but that was probably in large part due to his laziness and lechery; it was the events of his meeting with Goku that seemed to motivate him to take the martial arts a bit more seriously. Shen, though, actually did seem to have some clout as one of Mutaito's students, considering he had flunkies and all. At the very least, he wasn't as much a loser as Roshi, since even the dumbest bully wouldn't act like he did if he didn't think he had enough weight to throw around. Plus, we don't really see any of Mutaito's other students fight very much.

2. According to Roshi's flashbacks, he and Shen fought Piccolo's armies alongside the entirety of Mutaito's school, and by the end only the two of them were left. They might not necessarily have been Mutaito's best students, but neither of them is a coward, so I really doubt they survived when everyone around them fell because they ran and hid or used their comrades as human shields. They had to at least have been among his better students to live that long.

3. Mutaito may have been the greatest martial artist of his time, but it's not like he fared very well against King Piccolo. He got thrown around just as easily as Tien, whom Roshi could fight fairly even against despite being past his prime. He might not have reached or surpassed Mutaito's level (it's hard to say, since Mutaito's only shown battle was getting his ass kicked against King Piccolo and somehow *cough*plothole*cough* getting the best of a post-King Piccolo Goku), but he didn't completely lack for talent. It's honestly unfair to compare him to his students, who all had opportunities that he really didn't. I'm not just talking about training with Kami and everything above that, either, I'm also talking about strong rivals (i.e. Goku, who as a saiyan is just kind of cheating) who could constantly push him to improve himself more and more. Roshi seems like he kind of stagnated after becoming the strongest in the world, which was probably part of why he thought he needed to do the Jackie Chun thing in the first place.

4. The Ox King is probably unimpressive as one of Roshi's students at least partly because he didn't devote himself to the martial arts the way all of his other students did. He settled down in some mountain kingdom and raised a family; the biggest fights he was in after that point was probably chasing off bandits and wild animals, not really something that keeps a fighter of that level at peak condition. He's never shown doing all that much in the way of training, and in the one or two fights he was ever in he mostly relied on his size and strength. I'd say he was probably never one of Roshi's better students anyway.

5. Yeah, Roshi's students are all 1 in a billion prodigies while he likely isn't (though I'd argue he must have had some level of talent that set him above others), but the point I was making was that it's almost certainly easier to figure out the Kamehameha by watching it than it was for Roshi to develop it from scratch. It's still incredibly impressive the way Goku and Tien figured it out just from seeing it once, and Krillin and Yamcha were only a little slower, but it could very well also be partly for the reasons I gave above. Since it's never stated exactly why it took Roshi 50 years to make the technique, we're free to draw our own conclusions, and I prefer the one that doesn't make him a total joke compared to his students. He's already got enough to be depressed about.
 
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Leingod said:
2. According to Roshi's flashbacks, he and Shen fought Piccolo's armies alongside the entirety of Mutaito's school, and by the end only the two of them were left. They might not necessarily have been Mutaito's best students, but neither of them is a coward, so I really doubt they survived when everyone around them fell because they ran and hid or used their comrades as human shields. They had to at least have been among his better students to live that long.
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Actually after that battle, Shen took off and hid inside a mountain with his brother Tao and didn't come out until after Piccolo got beaten. It's part of the reason he and Roshi had their falling out, Mutaito and his school getting so thoroughly crushed by piccolo disillusioned him to the nobility that Mutaito and Roshi tried to teach their students. What good is being such a goody two-shoes if it doesn't stop the invincible monster from crushing you?

Leingod said:
5. Yeah, Roshi's students are all 1 in a billion prodigies while he likely isn't (though I'd argue he must have had some level of talent that set him above others), but the point I was making was that it's almost certainly easier to figure out the Kamehameha by watching it than it was for Roshi to develop it from scratch. It's still incredibly impressive the way Goku and Tien figured it out just from seeing it once, and Krillin and Yamcha were only a little slower, but it could very well also be partly for the reasons I gave above. Since it's never stated exactly why it took Roshi 50 years to make the technique, we're free to draw our own conclusions, and I prefer the one that doesn't make him a total joke compared to his students. He's already got enough to be depressed about.
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It's not that he was a joke, it was that his training under Mutaito was incomplete and he had to spend an unknown length of time between Piccolo's defeat and the "modern" age basically reinventing the wheel from what he knew and what he could pick up from Korin. Krillin, Yamcha and Tien, beyond even their own personal talent the big advantage they had over Roshi and Shen was that they didn't have to spend time figuring out the basics of using ki like those two did. They could build off of the foundations that Roshi and Shen spent centuries recreating after Piccolo's genocide. If it weren't for those two, the human martial artists would have never been able to compete against Goku for as long as they did, heck its doubtful even Goku would have gotten as strong as he did before something managed to kill him off.

It's also the reason why all the other human martial arts schools suck so much compared to the Crane and Turtle schools. Yeah Shen and Roshi had to reinvent the wheel, building off what little they did know to reclaim the heights that Mutaito and his school were at. But what training they had was still a lot more then what the founder's of other martial arts schools possessed. Where Shen and Roshi were trying to figure out the secrets of shooting energy beams, reading minds, throwing lightning and flight, other martial arts schools were stuck recreating the very basics, with only the most successful being able to move on to superhuman physical capabilities. And for all their differences the one flaw that both Shen and Roshi shared was that they were very exclusive in who they trained, and that exclusivity meant that the knowledge of more advance ki manipulation would stay confined to a very small amount of martial artists.

At least until Gohan published his scientific journal on ki and Pan's Fighting Network took over Hercule's attempt at an online martial arts school. After that martial arts and ki use got a huge revival among earth's populous, with Krillin, Tien and even Goten and Trunks making their own martial arts schools. The Nameks moving to earth, Majin Buu starting his own race and saiyan genes spreading throughout the rest of the human population only furthering the martial arts renaissance that's suppose to start happening sometime after Goku starts training Uub and before Goku and Vegeta die.
 
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veekie said:
Actually, we DID make a mistake. We struck to disable and instead killed because we overrated their strength. Theres a lesson to be learned here about considering consequences.
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True, it was an accident and there is a lesson to be learned as you said, but the question goes:
Leingod said:
Not even one month into your journey, in your very first real fight, and you've already taken another human life. There are a lot of feelings and thoughts running through your mind right now. Which is the most prevalent?
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It's asking how you are reacting to the fact that you took a life. It may have been by accident, but the main question is your reaction to killing and my answer is that he understands that sometimes it is a necessary thing even if he doesn't like it at all.

Given that Dragon Ball is set in a deathworld setting, I would think such a mentality is conductive to surviving. Lest we forget how many times Frieza came back...

And the uncut versions show that it was a very brutal place.
 
[X] Write-In: Contemplative: You just killed a person, who was trying to kill you. Who had a mother and father just like you. Who chose to become a murderous bandit. It was a mistake. But the intention was rightful... remembering the lessons of your tutors, you take a deep breath and meditate until you are at peace with what happened.
 
[X] Write-In: Contemplative: You just killed a person, who was trying to kill you. Who had a mother and father just like you. Who chose to become a murderous bandit. It was a mistake. But the intention was rightful... remembering the lessons of your tutors, you take a deep breath and meditate until you are at peace with what happened.
 
GhostKing 666 said:
Actually after that battle, Shen took off and hid inside a mountain with his brother Tao and didn't come out until after Piccolo got beaten. It's part of the reason he and Roshi had their falling out, Mutaito and his school getting so thoroughly crushed by piccolo disillusioned him to the nobility that Mutaito and Roshi tried to teach their students. What good is being such a goody two-shoes if it doesn't stop the invincible monster from crushing you?
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Yes, but that disillusionment and abandonment came after Mutaito's defeat at Piccolo's hands, at which time he and Roshi were the only surviving students of the school. My original point was that Shen was no coward and likely fought just as valiantly as his fellow students; certainly in Roshi's flashback he fights just as hard as Roshi himself (though admittedly that might be colored by Roshi's own bias and the nature of the flashback itself). What happened after that doesn't really matter as much, at least not for the sake of the current topic.
That said, Shen's backstory is one of the most interesting of any minor character in the series. Kind of wish more was done with the character.
I agree with just about everything else, though.
 
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