We could just terraform a part of the planet humans doesn't use like the Sahara or Death Valley. I don't understand in fiction while aliens from a different civilization with vastly different customs need to follow human morality. Most alien civilizations would think human morality is pointless and limiting. I don't want to wipe out humans, but our species needs a planet, or we will go extinct. Show sufficient force like broadcast our forces destroying a planet. If we do fall for a human, I don't see it ending in anything but tragedy as it would be ludicrous for our mc to end up caring more for a different species, then their own. Their people have tech over 1000 years more advanced than theirs and they would not be able to prevent an entire fleet from colonizing forcefully (which we won't). Look forward to more.
Something Wicked (Villainous Magical Boy Quest)
- Thread starter SillyLittleCoffe
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So first step is find or manufacture some reason for humanities continued existence. Possibly also try to integrate solutions that cause the least disruption of human society into the overall plan. Also, very far off thought considering we're still at the info gathering stage, but most invasions tend to target the big people to get collaborators, but what if we go from the ground up instead, start with stuff like puppeting revolutions and activists, try and frame ourselves as a force for change before we go for the full reveal?
Edit so I don't double post:
That did cross my mind, try convince the higher ups that it's best to keep initial Estil population centers away from human ones, use the Sahara and the poles at first, put outposts on salt flats and other inhospitable locations.
Edit so I don't double post:
That did cross my mind, try convince the higher ups that it's best to keep initial Estil population centers away from human ones, use the Sahara and the poles at first, put outposts on salt flats and other inhospitable locations.
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How likely is it that humans, as a soul-bearing but non-magical species, are significant factor in maintaining Earth's manasphere?
At least we should research such a connection, presuming it exists.
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- Location
- California
Well, there's a reason why humanity being in some way related to the Estil is a running theory in this thread. Estil psychology is very similar to human psychology, even if the physiology is very different, and even the Estil's political institutions are recognizably analogous to human institutions (some of humanity's past institutions may seem even more alien to liberal democracies than the Estil's system). While we're not bound by human customs, there seems to be a clear desire on the part of our character not to cause unnecessary human death or suffering (see, e.g., our character sheet), and so it's not so much that we're following human morality as Estil morality being similar to human morality. I feel it is wholly in character to consider ways to mitigate the impact of our invasion on humans, and more specifically to secure a peaceful surrender from humanity in general and the girls specifically.
If our aim is merely to preserve the existence of some humans, that could work as an approach, but that doesn't really require leaving most humans alive, and it certainly doesn't require not enslaving them. I don't see a way to make the invasion go the way we want to apart from convincing our higher-ups specifically of the need to treat humans humanely. It may be worth exploring the history of Earth between the mana eaters running rampant and now. If we can establish that humans are distant cousins of the Estil, that could create compelling reasons that humans should be treated as second-class citizens rather than as spoils of war. I wonder if our character is aware of broader theories surrounding Estil ethics or war policy that might give us some warrant to argue for humane treatment, also.
By the way how many Estil are left? Like they are still on the billions side of things?
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good way to get ecological experts pissed at us. Just because humans don't usually live there doesn't mean there's nothing there to care about, y'know?
We terraform the Moon! And then we slowly add more Moon to expand (JK).
cB557
voOOP
During character creation, The Alien's goal was described as "kick the humans off the planet." Maybe that's not set in stone as lore, but nothing we know about the Estil has given me the impression they want to share the Earth with anyone. I think we shouldn't get our hopes up about "minimizing the impact of the invasion on civilians."
- Location
- California
An unfortunate but likely accurate conjecture. This doesn't mean that we can't work to change the minds of the higher-ups, but it does mean that there is no world where the invasion proceeds as planned and we don't betray our people. Evicting humanity from Earth when they have no capacity to survive in the void is tantamount to the crime of genocide, and being complicit in that would likely psychologically break our character as he is now. A difficult dilemma.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, considering it's kinda hard to kick people off a planet when they don't have any reliable way to get off said planet, it would probably come down to genocide. And that shit is hard, especially against 7 billion people. We could probably convince high command it's at least not worth the effort to get rid of humanity and from there we just need compelling reasons for treating them humanly. To add to the growing list of questions on Estil society, any sense of military honour or courtesy to sapient races we could play on?
Zaiyuu and the gang doesnt seem to be suffering from Mana Void in the Moon, perhaps terraforming a planet close to Earth might work?
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
There comes a point in a situation like the Estils' at which you have to be willing to piss off somebody, or you're basically just saying "excuse me, I'm going to go die to avoid inconveniencing anyone."
- Location
- California
Realistically, destroying ecosystems is so far within the ethical boundaries that we operate in that it doesn't warrant a mention. We are manifestly okay with violating the sovereignty of human nations and overriding human self-governance (which probably entails depriving humans of rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of association, and of the right to due process of law). In the course of violating human sovereignty, we are probably okay with seriously harming or killing combatants, along with rampant property damage and some collateral damage inflicted upon civilians (although deliberately targeting civilians probably crosses the line). The ethical qualms we do have to seriously consider are more along the lines of atrocities, like war crimes and the crime of genocide, along with questions of imperial administration.
SillyLittleCoffe
Magical Girl Enthusiast
At this point, there are only a few million Estil left and the population has been steadily dropping for a very long time.
Yes, most notably a major political schism between Lady Starspite and the royal clan. According to Starspite, the issue is that the royal clan is made up of short-sighted fools who keep trying to sacrifice other people for their own benefit, while she thinks they should only sacrifice other people for the benefit of the fleet. Zaiyu is certain that if he asked someone affiliated with the royals, they'd have a different answer. Either way, Starspite seems to be pretty invested in the invasion plan, since she sent Zaiyu. Normally, this would imply that the royals would be against it, but they sent Shayin. So there are probably more layers of politics involved.
There are other societal problems unrelated to the lack of a planet and steady mana source, but Zaiyu isn't terribly politically astute, so he doesn't know that much. He only knows about this issue because of how much Starspite complains and commits murder about it.
The invasion goal is indeed to displace humanity as a species, and Zaiyu as he is will indeed have a lot of trouble doing so. Unfortunately for everyone.
The Moon works because of its close proximity to Earth, and even then, being on Earth itself is an order of magnitude better. And there's not really enough room for the whole species on the Moon.
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Looking forward to the angst and speeches by the magical girls about how they know we are better than that.
Shapeless Phobos
Filthy Casual
Hmmm...
Hmmm...
Question...if the Fleet sent Starspite on a million year paid vacation would that correlate to a sudden evening out on Estil population numbers? Inquiring Census takers wish to know.
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Actually, you could totally fit a few million on the moon. You'd need to terraform it to have an atmosphere first, and build tall and deep, but even the least impressive FTL-level tech base would allow a colony of at least five million or so to live on the moon, no problem. Probably at least half a billion even if you have decent food production tech.
Well, what about environments on Earth that humans generally shy away from? Could we build supercool undersea cities or flying sky cities to live in and not be forced to move the humans?
There's always Antarctica too.
- Location
- California
I wonder if any of the biospheres which the Estil had encountered would make a good home for humanity. It would be deeply unideal, but if push comes to shove, exile is better than death.
On another note, Lady Starspite must know that her pupil is not cut out for the actual invasion, on account of basically being his parental figure. I wonder what she's playing at, sending us instead of someone less empathetic and fundamentally good.
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It is clearly, clearly possible to house the entire Estil population on Earth without having to evict any humans (human political autonomy is a whole other ballgame). I suspect that the reason why we're forcing humans off the planet is wholly ideological: it was our ancestral home, and we don't want to share it. This motivation is particularly loathsome as a motivation for genocide, but we have seen this exact sort of extravagant waste in human history times beyond counting, so one can't be too surprised. This does mean that we need to do more than merely establish the possibility of not killing all humans, we need to also address the ideological motivation somehow.
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I mean, presumably the main reason for sending Zaiyuu is that he's one of her few pupils that aren't likely to crack the entire planet getting the job done, since they kind of need Earth in one piece.