Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

I wonder what's going through Kana's head. A few possibilities that come to mind:
This is why it's a bit annoying we don't know the immediate events that preceded this. Since depending on what just happened, it could also be:

"I failed to hold Yui-chan together, now she's drifted off into the Dreamlands and I need to commit honorable seppuku to make up for my failure."

Hmm. I have an idea for an appeal that Amu could try on Kana centered around offering to help Yui - but it's something that OOC knowledge makes me dubious on whether would actually work in practice. I only know that the idea is something that Amu, due to her limited IC knowledge, would have faith in working and something that Kana would not immediately be able to dismiss, due to her own lack of IC knowledge on the subject.
 
honorable seppuku to make up for my failure.
Uh, what does Kana's Shadow have to do with this, if that's actually the case?

I have an idea for an appeal that Amu could try on Kana centered around offering to help Yui
Problem: Ideally it needs to have Kana's participation be necessary, as depending on how bad Kana's mental state is she may just 'trust Amu to do it on her behalf without her'?
Finding a way to shock Kana out of the monorail tracks her thoughts are currently on is probably really important before anything at all has a chance of going through.
 
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Uh, what does Kana's Shadow have to do with this, if that's actually the case?
I can think of a few things.

Simplest explanation is that Kana simply finds mind crushing her own Shadow an easier way to go than drinking bleach. Alternatively, she might be thinking of trying to wipe her own memories by using Mind Control on her own Shadow.

Or she might be thinking of trying soul surgery again, this time on her own Shadow, to try and turn her own Shadow into a copy of Yui's Shadow and thereby "trade places" with her (i.e. sacrificing herself to try and bring back Yui), irrespective of the fact that she botched her last attempt.
Problem: Ideally it needs to have Kana's participation be necessary, as depending on how bad Kana's mental state is she may just 'trust Amu to do it on her behalf without her'?
Yes, the way I'm thinking of (that Amu knows of) requires Kana's participation.

As well as Yui's body, which is currently missing.
 
Kana's currently feeling lousy enough to off her own Shadow and put herself into a coma, but the immediate events leading up to here are still a mystery.
Kana likely wouldn't go into a coma. From the looks of things, she's closer to Mitsuo.
Ie: Killing her shadow would free her from all the 'wrong-think' she has been supressing.

Not sure how long she would last before eventually collapsing due to the mental damage / missing parts, but Mitsuo lasted months after loss of his shadow and he wasn't a high power mind controller with experience in maintaining a damaged mind, so she might believe it's sustainable.

That wrong-think, reading from Shadow Kana as a Shadow...
Remember here that Shadows are typically not socially acceptable desires, and then consider that Kana's social group other than Amu is the Scavengers.

"I don't want to be responsible for Yui." / "I want my actual sister, not the frankenstein monster my mother and I made."
"I want to go home."(I want to abandon the Scavangers and their fight.)
"I don't want to fight Manticore (my mother) anymore."
"I don't want to kill people." (Again, not wanting to be part of the Scavengers.)

In summary, Shadow Kana seems to be the desire to just not be part of anything to do with Manticore and the Scavengers, with a focus on not wanting the responsibility of holding Yui2 together. That's why she's younger, the best way to represent that is a reset to when she missed the train.

The not wanting to kill / fight also explains why Shadow Kana doesn't just UMI hammer Murderer Kana into accepting her, because that would effectively be killing her. Or Shadows need more that UMI gained consent for acceptance.
 
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"Yes," she said. "She's counting on it."
Hm, @Baughn is Kana counting on the coma part, or the 'wrong-think' erasure parts, or is either fine to her?

Shadow Kana seems to be the desire to just not be part of anything to do with Manticore and the Scavengers
If that's the case, any attempts to talk Kana down from her self-imposed mission are likely dead from the get go (doesn't mean it's not worth at least saying out loud though).
Pointing out that her actions are self-sabotaging (are they?) may also not be very effective in this scenario; and saying that this way you aren't likely to live to see big-sister-Yui again isn't likely to work either, unless we really hammer in her hypothetical reaction to try and overload and crash Kana from her current train of though without using UMI.

We may instead need to deliberately piss her off so that she actually shares more about why she feels that way, and to get her to actually think more about it, and then leverage whatever levers she presents to us while responding?
Mutually exclusive is the tactic of physically and mentally grounding her (probably by having Amu get in the way of any hypothetical attacks and hope Kana doesn't go "after this I will never need to hurt again" and power through anyway), but could we instead use this as a setpiece at the start?
 
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If that's the case, any attempts to talk Kana down from her self-imposed mission are likely dead from the get go (doesn't mean it's not worth at least saying out loud though).
IMO, we shouldn't either. If Nero's theory is right, the list of things that "normal Kana" wants/feels obligated to do, that her Shadow would prefer not to do, includes keeping Yui intact (the small one). Convincing her to abandon everything she's been doing would also involve convincing her to give up on Small Yui, which is not a palatable course of action.

The ideal outcome is to convince Kana that both things are possible - that she can both maintain her relationship with the Scavengers and look after Small Yui, but also be allowed to pursue the ideas of fixing Big Yui and meeting up with her mother again at the same time and no longer having to fight.

I'm not sure Amu has any way of promising the last two, but she might be able to earnestly raise the possibility of fixing Yui. I'll write it up next. The actual vote itself is not particularly lengthy - the lengthy part of the post involves the explanation of why Amu in-character could think it will work.
 
I wonder if Aoi is somehow responsible for the current situation. Aoi is the one who told us to stay away. If Kana knew the Scavengers were going to be busy, it seems like she would have told Amu herself. Instead, it was Aoi, and Aoi did it when none of the other Scavengers were awake to hear.

If the Scavengers had something planned, Kana should have known. If Aoi predicted something happening, Kana still should have known, because Aoi should have said something. But if Aoi was deliberately going behind Kana's back...
 
I wonder if Aoi is somehow responsible for the current situation.
But what would Aoi's goal be (beyond keeping Amu, a relative civilian safe) if that were actually the case?

no longer having to fight.
It's too bad Hikaru isn't around right now, because if he were we could get his thoughts on whether he's willing to start poking Manticore through Easter :/

The ideal outcome is to convince Kana that both things are possible
The question wrt this is why Kana even thought this was not possible to begin with - social dynamic problems, or it mostly being in Kana's head?
This is also a giant shift from her current mentality, I'm not sure we can pull it off with the listed ideas so far - we need to somehow get her willing to consider her actual internal conflict if Nero's theory is correct, and I don't think we have enough material to bridge the disconnect yet?

If we aim a little lower, is it possible for us to persuade Kana to leave the labyrinth and chill first before coming back, or does that carry its own problems even if successful?
 
As far as Shugo Chara canon goes - and what Amu is familiar with - the following things are true regarding souls and selves:
  • "All kids have an Egg in their soul, the Egg of their Hearts, their would-be-selves, yet unseen."
  • When a Heart's Eggs gets extracted or broken, it causes the owner to go into an apathic, vegetative-like state.
  • When a Heart's Egg is returned to someone, they emerge from their funk.
  • Heart's Eggs cannot be permanently destroyed. Dia's exact words about them were: "The Heart's Egg doesn't disappear. Even if it breaks, even if it's scratched or even if it seems it's gone... It will be born again many, many times."
  • Amu has been able to meet Heart's Eggs of people she knew - including those that were supposed to be "gone" (Nikaido's) - by traveling to the Egg's Cradle in the Road of Stars, via Dia's help.
  • It is possible to retrieve Heart's Eggs that are "gone" this way and bring them back into the real world. Amu knows this for a fact, since she did it herself to bring back Ran, Miki and Su.
  • Amu has seen 1 other person travelling there too (future Tadase), who she mistook as being Tsukasa.
  • It is possible to take someone else into the Road of Stars, she did this temporarily with present-day Tadase.
Amu does not know anything about Personas and Shadows.

The only framework about "selves" that she is familiar with is the one about Heart's Eggs. Therefore, with the knowledge she has, she can draw the following conclusions from the info she's been given about the current situation:
  • Yui Nanami was a child and has/had a Heart's Egg.
  • Yui Nanami fell into a coma after she was mentally and emotionally broken == her Heart's Egg was damaged or broken.
  • Some part of it may have been salvaged into the Other Yui, the rest is still missing.
  • Finding the rest of it and reinserting it into Yui Nanami may be able to reawaken her.
  • Since Kana knows Yui, if she can travel to the Egg's Cradle, she may be able to meet up with and retrieve the rest of Yui's Heart's Egg.
  • Dia or Tsukasa may be able to help her traverse the Road of Stars.
On her part, Kana does not know anything about Charas, at least beyond with Amu has shared with her.

Because of that, she won't be able to completely refute anything Amu says about Heart's Eggs and the possibilities involved, especially if Amu conveys her own experiences within the Road of Stars.

The problem is, Out-Of-Character-wise, we don't know if the conclusions Amu come to will actually be true. We don't know what Heart's Eggs are in this quest, but we've been told Charas are born from the same thing used to make Personas and Shadows. So it may be possible that the canonical axiom from Shugo Chara about all kids having a Heart's Egg/them being impossible to destroy doesn't apply in this quest and/or that whatever damage she sustained means Yui's (if it exists) can't be retrieved from the Egg's Cradle. Moreover, Dia is currently on cooldown and can't be used until next month. Tsukasa probably has a way of accessing the Road of Stars, but we don't know that for a fact, since it wasn't actually him that Amu saw that time, it was actually future-Tadase.

However.... with her current lack of knowledge in-character, Amu should be able to honestly believe in the possibility of such an outcome being true.

And that may just be enough to convince Kana, who also lacks knowledge about Charas, to believe in the possibility too and accept that particular desire from her Shadow.

[X] Tell Kana there may be a way to heal Yui Nanami, but it will require her help.
-[X] Show Kana how she retrieved her own fragments from the Road of Stars - Ran, Miki and Su - and offer to either lend her Dia's assistance or put her in touch with Tsukasa, who seems to have his own way of getting there, to try the same thing.
 
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Amu does not know anything about Personas and Shadows.
We can have had a conversation off-screen about this with Naoto in Chapter 2.9 though if it is relevant though? Furthermore, Naoto may accidentally break the chain of logic we are using if we don't warn her in advance.

I'm not sure Kana will listen to anything right now, I don't think this vote will work without something to make sure she has to actually think instead of reflexively ignore.
 
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"This place. Mom showed me the ropes. Taught me to be useful. Told me I had talent, more than my sister, and if I did everything right we'd get her back."
"I just want to go home," Kana whispered quietly, crying into her shirt. "I don't want to fight. I don't want to kill people like Riku anymore. I… don't want to have to save Yui. I don't want to have to be the good one. I just want to see my mom again."
Boy, does this sound like some abusive relationship dynamics.

"Her mind was full of holes. The experiments she did, the drugs- nothing worked."
I wonder if the "her" refers to Asahi's mind. She could have easily ended up damaging her own mind in her attempts to fix Yui.

Anyone else getting a bit of a Precia Testarossa vibe from Asahi?

[X] Tell Kana there may be a way to heal Yui Nanami, but it will require her help.
-[X] Show Kana how she retrieved her own fragments from the Road of Stars - Ran, Miki and Su - and offer to either lend her Dia's assistance or put her in touch with Tsukasa, who seems to have his own way of getting there, to try the same thing.
If Kana expects to survive killing her own Shadow, this may not deter her.
 
We can have had a conversation off-screen about this with Naoto in Chapter 2.9 though if it is relevant though?
No, that would be counter-productive.

This appeal only works if Amu DOESN'T know anything about Personas and Shadows. Otherwise, she herself might start doubting the possibility of retrieving Yui in the Road of Stars being possible. The Persona-Shadow framework doesn't really lend itself to the idea of dead Shadows coming back like Heart's Eggs.
If Kana expects to survive killing her own Shadow, this may not deter her.
Based on what Kana's Shadow said, it seems like the intent is for her to comatose herself:
"Does she know what will happen if she does?" Shirogane asked after a second or so—her voice carefully neutral and unemotional; a stark contrast to Amu's internal turmoil, which Utau was doing her best to suppress.

Kana hesitated for a moment or so.

"Yes," she said. "She's counting on it."
Though whether Kana intends to kill the Shadow itself is still up in the air, my other thought was that it could be she plans to scrub her own memories by using Mind Control on it.
I'm not sure Kana will listen to anything right now, I don't think this vote will work without something to make sure she has to actually think instead of reflexively ignore.
If she's so unreasonable that even telepathically showing her the Road of Stars doesn't sway her mind, we're basically down to fighting and exhausting her until she's willing to listen or using UMI.

The first option is probably what Naoto is going to do. The second is a bit forceful to immediately resort to.
 
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[] Let Naoto take the lead (so that there is at least one person who is level-headed here and who can exert influence on the situation as necessary)
-[] Figure out the narrative Kana is running on so we can disrupt that enough to offer alternatives
--[] Do so by using Manipulation + Empathy + Socialise to try and ask more guiding questions or leak information to get a greater response
--[] Alternatively, start acting "Out Of Character" enough to try and throw Kana for a loop so she is more open to listening afterwards
-[] Show Kana how she retrieved her own fragments from the Road of Stars - Ran, Miki and Su - and offer to either lend her Dia's assistance or put her in touch with Tsukasa, who seems to have his own way of getting there, to try the same thing.
--[] What Kana knows of Personas and Shadows may not be fully accurate, as Naoto can testify in our trip here.
-[] If all else fails, point out that killing your own Shadow is wasting energy (because we will not cooperate and will fight you on it), energy that can be spent trying to rescue little-Yui together instead?

Something like this?
We could also try to take advantage of Naoto's Dark/Light Immunity to throw Kana for a loop, or have Naoto cast the Dark/Light defense spell on Shadow Kana beforehand?

If she's so unreasonable that even telepathically showing her the Road of Stars doesn't sway her mind
Mention the Lock/Key too, it's new enough that it should be shocking, and probably undeniable to Kana if we are careful
 
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IMO, Naoto is probably the worst of the 3 people here who could try reasoning with her.
I meant in more Mission Control sense than Naoto actually talking to Kana, but yeah I should fix that if the rest of the plan is fine.

accept that particular desire from her Shadow.
Seems a bit missing the forest for the trees if Nero's theory is correct though, given that implies her internal conflict about what is Right and Proper versus her other desires that still exist?
My only aim with my draft vote is to make sure Kana doesn't want to kill her Shadow, anything else or integration is a bonus as far as I'm concerned here.

[] Let Naoto take the lead as mission control, to try and keep things as level as possible
-[] Figure out the narrative Kana is running on so we can disrupt that enough to offer alternatives
--[] Do so by using Manipulation + Empathy + Socialise to try and ask more guiding questions or leak information to get a greater response
--[] Alternatively, start acting "Out Of Character" enough to try and throw Kana for a loop so she is more open to listening afterwards
-[] Point Kana towards the Key and let her see the shards of Yui in there - there are other ways of doing things we may not have discovered yet.
-[] Then show Kana using telepathy how Amu retrieved her own fragments from the Road of Stars - Ran, Miki and Su - and offer to either lend her Dia's assistance or put her in touch with Tsukasa, who seems to have his own way of getting there, to try the same thing.
--[] What Kana knows of Personas and Shadows may not be fully accurate, as Naoto can testify in our trip here.
-[] If all else fails, point out that killing your own Shadow is wasting energy (because we will not cooperate and will fight you on it), energy that can be spent trying to rescue little-Yui together instead?
 
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Based on what Kana's Shadow said, it seems like the intent is for her to comatose herself:
That interaction left the actual expected consequences vague. Shadow Kana said that Regular Kana knows what will happen if she kills her shadow. Shadow Kana did not say what that actually is.

In any case, I'd rather not proceed by dangling Yui's salvation as bait. It sends the wrong message about Kana's value as a person, and it's too similar to how Asahi manipulated Kana.

We've got resources and skills to offer on that front, and we will offer them. But right now, I think we need to emphasize Kana's self-worth, not how she can be useful to Yui.
 
I meant in more Mission Control sense than Naoto actually talking to Kana, but yeah I should fix that if the rest of the plan is fine.
Your plan votes for "Naoto take the lead", which means Naoto will be doing the discussion.

If you wanted Amu to try it, as you pointed out in your plan, it would probably require "using Manipulation + Empathy + Socialise to try and ask more guiding questions or leak information to get a greater response" and Amu has a Socialize score of 0.

I don't know if Naoto has the stats for it, but that's definitely not an approach Amu is geared towards taking. Ideally, our approach wouldn't need a dice roll at all - but if it did, I definitely wouldn't want to take one that uses bad stats and poor dice.
In any case, I'd rather not proceed by dangling Yui's salvation as bait. It sends the wrong message about Kana's value as a person, and it's too similar to how Asahi manipulated Kana.

We've got resources and skills to offer on that front, and we will offer them. But right now, I think we need to emphasize Kana's self-worth, not how she can be useful to Yui.
That assumes that Kana is questioning her own value as a person. If Nero's theory is right, it's not so much Kana's "self-worth" that is the problem, but her conflicting desires in wanting to do two sets of things that appear to be mutually exclusive:
"I don't want to be responsible for Yui." / "I want my actual sister, not the frankenstein monster my mother and I made."
"I want to go home."(I want to abandon the Scavangers and their fight.)
"I don't want to fight Manticore (my mother) anymore."
"I don't want to kill people." (Again, not wanting to be part of the Scavengers.)
Of course, even that's still only a theory.

The only thing we can really say with any amount of certainty about her motivations is that Kana really wants her big sister Yui back.

Which we know because that was the same emotional lever Asahi used to get her daughter involved in the experiments, as you mentioned.

Appealing to anything else would involve relying on guesswork regarding her motivations.
 
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It sends the wrong message about Kana's value as a person
Kana does seem to view her worth being related to the quality of the impact she has on others, and (if her mental state is bad enough) because she is a bad kid she taints everthing she associates with due to her desires and her acting on said desires.

If we manage to loosen the first association, we can then try to tell her that it's fine to make mistakes and try to keep on going regardless, that you can't always make up for your mistakes by going full tilt on it (but that this is still ok),
and that it is fine to talk to your friends about your desires and to hash something out together with them; which should be enough to temporarily resolve the situation?

includes keeping Yui intact (the small one)
Seems less this and more balking from the self-imposed responsibility and pressure?

(We can safely say that Kana wanted the smaller Yui back too considering how she got into this situation, but whether that is currently true is unknown.)
 
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That assumes that Kana is questioning her own value as a person. If Nero's theory is right, it's not so much Kana's "self-worth" that is the problem, but her conflicting desires in wanting to do two sets of things that appear to be mutually exclusive:
I don't see it as a conflict of desires. I see it as Kana thinking it's wrong to want what her shadow wants. If that's the case, and we offer her what her shadow wants without first getting her to accept that it's okay to want those things, it'll backfire.
 
I don't see it as a conflict of desires. I see it as Kana thinking it's wrong to want what her shadow wants. If that's the case, and we offer her what her shadow wants without first getting her to accept that it's okay to want those things, it'll backfire.
The problem is, at least under Nero's theory, one of the things Kana's Shadow might want is to not have to bear responsibility for Small Yui.

We know she has some level of responsibility - beyond the botched soul-surgery - that involves doing something for Yui whenever she sleeps, I assume this is necessary to maintain her "upkeep", whatever the heck it involves.

Would you really want to suggest that it's OK for Kana to not maintain Small Yui or bear any responsibility for her?
 
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Your plan votes for "Naoto take the lead", which means Naoto will be doing the discussion.

If you wanted Amu to try it, as you pointed out in your plan, it would probably require "using Manipulation + Empathy + Socialise to try and ask more guiding questions or leak information to get a greater response" and Amu has a Socialize score of 0.

I don't know if Naoto has the stats for it, but that's definitely not an approach Amu is geared towards taking. Ideally, our approach wouldn't need a dice roll at all - but if it did, I definitely wouldn't want to take one that uses bad stats and poor dice.

That assumes that Kana is questioning her own value as a person. If Nero's theory is right, it's not so much Kana's "self-worth" that is the problem, but her conflicting desires in wanting to do two sets of things that appear to be mutually exclusive:

Of course, even that's still only a theory.

The only thing we can really say with any amount of certainty about her motivations is that Kana really wants her big sister Yui back.

Which we know because that was the same emotional lever Asahi used to get her daughter involved in the experiments, as you mentioned.

Appealing to anything else would involve relying on guesswork regarding her motivations.
I'm working from this:
"I just want to go home," Kana whispered quietly, crying into her shirt. "I don't want to fight. I don't want to kill people like Riku anymore. I… don't want to have to save Yui. I don't want to have to be the good one. I just want to see my mom again." She looked up at Amu, her expression so full of pleading and self-hate and sorrow that Amu couldn't help but flinch back from it—wishing desperately that she could do something, anything, but not knowing how; not knowing what.
Some guess work, but I wouldn't say from this that Yui is the biggest lever.
The Shadow / rejected desires seem to be focused on just going back to how her life was before she took that elevator down.

Unless you mean on Murderous Kana, who presumably doesn't want the original back because that's not the Scavenger aligned desire.
Or rather, is supressing her desire for such, hence Shadow, and wants to murder that desire because she's guilty about it.

Shadows usually aren't solved by external factors (saving Yui), it's an internal rejection of the self that needs to be accepted/resolved.

Granting the desires that created the Shadow doesn't change the fact that she rejected the desires in the first place, it would just let her ignore them.
Which would work as a temporary solution, if we are aiming for such as a priority.

I don't see it as a conflict of desires. I see it as Kana thinking it's wrong to want what her shadow wants. If that's the case, and we offer her what her shadow wants without first getting her to accept that it's okay to want those things, it'll backfire.
^ this exactly. Much neater put, Quine.
The problem is, at least under Nero's theory, one of the things Kana's Shadow might want is to not have to bear responsibility for Small Yui.

We know she has some level of responsibility that involves doing something for Yui whenever she sleeps, I assume this is necessary to maintain her "upkeep", whatever the heck it involves.

Would you really want to suggest that it's OK for Kana to not maintain Small Yui or bear any responsibility for her?
Well, yes?
She's a kid, she shouldn't be responsible for such, and not wanting to have that pressure is perfectly reasonable.
Resolving the Shadow means accepting the desires. She can still chose to do it, but without rejecting that she would rather not.

Again, it's not about the actions taken, it's about her accepting that this is part of her. That's how Shadows work. They don't need solutions, they need to be accepted as valid parts of your desires. You can work on fulfilling those desires, or decide on balance that you prefer other mutually exclusive things more, but they are still part of what makes you who you are.

EDIT: Considering that Shadows tend to have an rather extreme version of the host/sources desires (See Rise).
In this case, Amu can probably somewhat cover for Kana in terms of keeping Yui together.
Kana being able to take a break and leave Yui to Amu on occasion might be enough to let her relax and accept she needs/wants to take breaks.
Caretaker burnout, etc, seems to be in play here.
 
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The vote option made it sound like we had time for 4 lines of hurried dialogue, tops. Not a whole flashback sequence and all the crying and hugs. We could have fit a lot more than 2 questions into that time.
1 question, 2 maximum would suggest to me 1-1.5 minutes at maximum (I was expecting 30 seconds to 1 minute myself); although this may be longer if they are the sort of question that need very long answers.

Even accounting for Telepathy Compression, the update read like at least 2 minutes worth of time? (Not that I am complaining about the extra information, just trying to calibrate my expectations properly lol)



The beginning of the next chapter is likely to be preparation for a fight, unless Kana actually takes the offer of food and a break as Quine suggested.
How do we convert this into a conversation (no, Shounen Fights being a method of communication does not count here), so that whatever plan we come up with can go smoother? (Kana will likely give us the levers herself, but let's assume she doesn't - what then?)
Telepathy? We've never tried hostile Telepathy before, I'm not sure if Kana will decide to stop listening midway through.
 
Well, yes?
She's a kid, she shouldn't be responsible for such, and not wanting to have that pressure is perfectly reasonable.
Resolving the Shadow means accepting the desires. She can still chose to do it, but without rejecting that she would rather not.
Whether she should or shouldn't by societal standards is beside the point.

Suggesting that she stop supporting Small Yui means, in practice, that she'll be letting bad things happen to Small Yui.

It's between 2 bad choices. Trying to sell either one as being "OK" is going to be a hard sell. Even if you personally think one is clearly less bad than the other for whatever reasons.
Granting the desires that created the Shadow doesn't change the fact that she rejected the desires in the first place, it would just let her ignore them.
Which would work as a temporary solution, if we are aiming for such as a priority.
Do you have any ideas on getting her to permanently accept those heavily-rejected desires within the span of this short chat?

The only idea I have to even try involves Amu showing off how it is possible to maintain multiple Charas without abandoning each other and that isn't exactly the same thing.
 
Do you have any ideas on getting her to permanently accept those heavily-rejected desires within the span of this short chat?
Not as-is, but that's why we need to fish for more information about her opinions from Kana (Utau can do Manip + Empathy + Socialise just fine I believe) so IC further arguments can be made (that is, to fish for her Intimacies in Exalted terms).
It would be much easier to achieve if we have "breakpoints" that we can reach too - so long as Kana isn't actively trying to kill her Shadow we can talk further on the way to Yui's Shadow, and then the stuff there should give us more opportunities to keep trying.

Suggesting that she stop supporting Small Yui means, in practice, that she'll be letting bad things happen to Small Yui.
Nero is suggesting that Amu takes over sometimes when she seems overwhelmed (something Midori will support knowing the full context behind this) if she is capable, which should help at least a little bit.
 
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