Shards of a Broken Sun [Deprecated; see link in final post for remake]

[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want my family to be safe. I want everyone to be safe. I want to grow up and get married. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
I want to grow up and get married.

As we're in Dream, it's possible that Margaret could actually make this happen right now, with unpredictable consequences.

On top of that, I'm not sure that it's safe to say this, given the discussion we were just having about charas and identity.

Together, I think it should be cut as I don't think it adds much beyond risk. This is a situation where be careful what you wish for, it just might happen certainly applies. I think our answer could be taken absolutely literally here as a wish to try to make happen.

We also haven't asked what, if any, the cost to making a wish here is.
 
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As we're in Dream, it's possible that Margaret could actually make this happen right now, with unpredictable consequences.

On top of that, I'm not sure that it's safe to say this, given the discussion we were just having about charas and identity.

Together, I think it should be cut as I don't think it adds much beyond risk. This is a situation where be careful what you wish for, it just might happen certainly applies. I think our answer could be taken absolutely literally here as a wish to try to make happen.

We also haven't asked what, if any, the cost to making a wish here is.

I think she'd actually wait for us to finish talking, rather then "Lol literal genie".

It's basically the meandering of a ten year old who's uncertain of their identity and who's been under a lot of pressure, before eventually coming to "--But I'll be happy just going home right now"
 
I think she'd actually wait for us to finish talking, rather then "Lol literal genie".

It's basically the meandering of a ten year old who's uncertain of their identity and who's been under a lot of pressure, before eventually coming to "--But I'll be happy just going home right now"

It says she will settle for just getting home. She's still expressing the wish for the other stuff as well. I'm also very unconvinced that a chara should express a desire to grow up, particularly here.

What does that particular line give us that's worth taking any additional risk for?
 
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I don't like how that vote doesn't mention Amu specifically. Miki should want to shoulder her burdens, I think, and the way that vote is structured it looks like she wouldn't mind if Amu did all the work as long as it got done. The only thing Miki states she wants to do HERSELF that would help others is make beautiful things.
 
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I don't like how that vote doesn't mention Amu specifically. Miki should want to shoulder her burdens, I think, and the way that vote is structured it looks like she wouldn't mind if Amu did all the work as long as it got done. The only thing Miki states she wants to do HERSELF that would help others is make beautiful things.
This is a good enough point that, in fact, a winning vote doesn't account for it will be mangled until it does.

Compassion 5, folks. Also, this is Amu and Miki; they're closer than most twins.
 
Anyone want to rejigger the wording a bit?
In fact I have! And then I was pulled away before I could mention that I had:

[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want my family to be safe. I want everyone to be safe. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."

But that's probably not far enough.

[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
As we're in Dream, it's possible that Margaret could actually make this happen right now, with unpredictable consequences.

I don't believe she could. I'm quite certain she wouldn't.

On top of that, I'm not sure that it's safe to say this, given the discussion we were just having about charas and identity.

Ehhh. That just means Amu needs to find a nice boy with a nice Chara. (Canonically, according to the SC wiki, Miki evinced crushes on all of Amu's love interests' Charas.) It doesn't necessarily make sense, and Miki will admit that if asked. To paraphrase Whitman (for, astonishingly, the first time all quest): she is large; she contains multitudes.

Together, I think it should be cut as I don't think it adds much beyond risk. This is a situation where be careful what you wish for, it just might happen certainly applies. I think our answer could be taken absolutely literally here as a wish to try to make happen.

We also haven't asked what, if any, the cost to making a wish here is.

We're not making a wish; that's not a service the Velvet Room offers. For those services Igor and his attendants do offer, he always asks payment beforehand, and it's always well-specified in terms of yen and materials.

At worst, we might be requested to enter into a contract to do something we would never have considered not doing anyway.

IS there are particular reason why you want to include the bit about wanting to grow up and get married?

Because a) the heavy matters need something relatively light to ground them (the irony of that metaphor notwithstanding); and b) she's a ten-year-old girl, and it seems appropriate.
 
[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire literof ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."

Well...let's just see what loophole Margaret abused to make this possible later on, then
 
I wouldn't know, but now I'm curious. Really, what do you think will happen?
Hmm...Igors absence could be irrelevant, or mean everything. But given his lack of presence, if we assume his absence is relevant, then that only means it was a necessary condition.

That means that, if it were relevant, then Igors presence for Mikis visit would make whatever is to happen impossible. Speculation beyond that is pointless without more info, though.

On the other hand, interference from the attendants isn't unprecedented. It's simply a matter of exceptions related to those who have a standing contract with the Velvet Room, as was explained.

I *suspected* that the bit with Dia had further implications, but the presence of the other two during that nightmare made it iffy about whether or not a contract was struck or not.

This latest update confirms it, though

The question, however, comes from why Margaret summoned Miki there. Not the how, there's not enough information to pin down the exactly method imo. And...ordinarily, she should have no business summoning familiars or such there.

The best I can come up with is a loophole whereby Miki and Amu are considered one and the same giving Margaret clearance to do so...But the why is so odd. Normally they're not so proactive without an agenda, so Im curious as to what it is, in this case

It's clear she saved Miki, but in that case, why wait until the absolute last possible second? It implies a certain level of panic or desperation to the move, which makes it all the more curious.

At least, to me it does. What's her game, exactly?

Edit: As for what'll happen? I dunno, but Im leaning more towards Miki gaining a stronger connection to the Velvet Room, at the very least. Maybe even a Persona, down the line. It's not impossible.

But there will be some kind of change for Miki after this point. We really need to bring Maya back with us, though

She's too valuable for us at this point not to
 
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A few words about Igor's requirement for a contract probably wouldn't go amiss.

In Persona 3, the protagonist signs a contract given him by an entity he would later learn to call Pharos. In Pharos' own words, "all it says is that you'll accept full responsibility for your actions" (Jp: 「ここからは自分の決めたことに責任を取ってもらう」って言う。 'From now on you'll take responsibility for the things you've chosen to do,' it says.), though Igor himself later shows you the contract, or a copy: "I chooseth this fate of mine own free will." (Jp: "我、自ら選び取りし、いかなる結末も受け入れん" "I, in making choices for myself, accept whatever end they may bring me to"). This of course sounds like the sort of thing your average raksha would love to have a mortal sign, but the metaphysics of Persona is not the metaphysics of Exalted, and this contract is much less stringent than it appears. As Pharos says, "No one can escape time. It delivers us all to the same end." (Jp: 確かに、時は、全ての者に結末を運んでくる。 Certainly, Time brings all things to an end.)

In Persona 3 FES: The Answer, Aigis doesn't sign a contract or realize what she's getting into. As Igor says: "In awakening to the power of the wild card, you are now bound to a contract." Which sounds like it came out of a poxy raksha trickster's backside0​, but the original Japanese throws a little more light on the topic: 貴方は"契約"をなされたのです… "ワイルド"の力にお目覚めねなった事です。 And so you were able to form a 'contract'... it was your act of awakening to the power of the Wild Card. That is, this was her "contract".

In Persona 4, there is no explicit signature; Yu presumes that his verbal agreement with Teddie to track down the murderer is the "contract" of which Igor spoke, and Igor never contradicts this assumption.

The running threads here are twofold: first, none of these contracts (or in two cases, mere promises) were made with the Velvet Room; and second, all of these were made in furtherance of the welfare of humanity. (Although you may have to squint a bit at the first one to see it that way.)

(One suspects, but does not accuse, that Igor is absent in his capacity as the host of the Velvet Room, and Margaret is technically acting in her capacity as an independent agent: a bending of the rules, but one Philemon would likely countenance.)

0​Say that five times fast. I promise it's not a summoning ritual.
 
Belated realization: This of course leads to a re-re-consideration of what we should be saying to Margaret, but I am tired of waffling on the subject; I'm just going to a) assume that she's going to talk us into focusing on one of them as a "contract" and b) be okay with that.

If anyone has a good argument and vote-addendum as to which one it should be, I'll just bandwagon on it. It'll be a nice change of pace. :V
 
Belated realization: This of course leads to a re-re-consideration of what we should be saying to Margaret, but I am tired of waffling on the subject; I'm just going to a) assume that she's going to talk us into focusing on one of them as a "contract" and b) be okay with that.

If anyone has a good argument and vote-addendum as to which one it should be, I'll just bandwagon on it. It'll be a nice change of pace. :V

In light of this, analysing the two default options (as a basis for analysis so that people can go off it for write-ins) with a focus on how long they would take to fulfil (and thus how long Miki can call on the help of the velvet room)

{1} I want to return to reality. Me, Amu, Fumi and Maya.
Is; most likely; a shorter term contract, possibly being fulfilled; depending on how you read it; either as soon as they find a way back to japan OR ; as a silly/literal genie reading; as soon as miki exits the velvet room:p. it's also group conscious, focused on the problem facing the group as a whole.

{2} I want to help. I don't want Amu to do everything on her own.
Is; most likely; a longer term contract, possibly being fulfilled upon Amu no longer having a task to fulfill, Miki becoming satisfied with her ability to help, or the crisis with the end of the world clearing up. it's also introspective, focused on one of Miki's problems with herself/her own worries.

as it stands i think ω₁'s write in more closely resembles option 1 than option 2 in that the part that is being given emphasis is getting back home.
 
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I don't believe she could. I'm quite certain she wouldn't.

How much do we know of her nature and powers, and how they interact with charas?

Do we know that she and Igor are similar enough that we can use him as a model?

Ehhh. That just means Amu needs to find a nice boy with a nice Chara. (Canonically, according to the SC wiki, Miki evinced crushes on all of Amu's love interests' Charas.) It doesn't necessarily make sense, and Miki will admit that if asked. To paraphrase Whitman (for, astonishingly, the first time all quest): she is large; she contains multitudes.

I'm not sure that's how charas are meant to play out in the long term.

We're not making a wish; that's not a service the Velvet Room offers. For those services Igor and his attendants do offer, he always asks payment beforehand, and it's always well-specified in terms of yen and materials.

Igor doesn't. Does Margaret?

At worst, we might be requested to enter into a contract to do something we would never have considered not doing anyway.

Is that really the worst that can happen?

Because a) the heavy matters need something relatively light to ground them (the irony of that metaphor notwithstanding); and b) she's a ten-year-old girl, and it seems appropriate.

She's not a ten year old girl, she's a few month year old chara. They're not the same, and the other entities we interact with may not consider them to be.
 
She's not a ten year old girl, she's a few month year old chara. They're not the same, and the other entities we interact with may not consider them to be.
They can think whatever they want. What matters here is what Miki considers Charas to be. She's the one being asked, and an honest answer is definitely a good one.

[X] "... I want a lot of things, Miss Margaret. I want the Septentriones gone. I want not to fade away. I want Earth not to fade away. I want to make beautiful things, for their own sake and for others'. I want to protect my family. I want to protect everyone. I want to grow up and get married. I want to help Amu with whatever she does. I want a good night's sleep and a comforting hug and an entire liter of ice cream for each of us.
- [X] "But right now I will settle for getting us home, and I will be more than happy for it."
 
They can think whatever they want. What matters here is what Miki considers Charas to be. She's the one being asked, and an honest answer is definitely a good one.

Until they apply their supernatural powers based on their assumption of what Miki is, and then it becomes really quite critical.

On top of that, Miki is a reification of Amu's desire to be cool, artistic, an disobedient. In the base series, it's pretty clear that Chara aren't people as usually defined, they're incarnate metaphors of the people they're derived from's desires and ambitions.

Wanting to grow up and have children isn't part of Miki's definitional ambition. Being a homemaker is what Su represents/embodies. It would make sense for her to wish for that, but Miki should wish to be able to create great art, or be free to do what she wants.
 
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