nachtingale
19. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
A proud follower of the Mussolini strategy of logistics I see!
(Pictured below, the magnificence that was Libyan railway infrastructure during WW2.)
Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline
- Thread starter Aelita
- Start date
- Timeline Post-1900 Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A proud follower of the Mussolini strategy of logistics I see!
(Pictured below, the magnificence that was Libyan railway infrastructure during WW2.)
Raiho-kun
This Cycle's Second Biggest Communism Builder
I wouldn't discount the Franco-British Union's ability, either. Britain alone has the Empire's potential at its fingertips, much of it being untapped by the OTL Churchill administration.
The Anzac Spirit Part 1
Hawkatana
That jaywalking punk anarchist
- Location
- That place in the thing
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The ANZAC spirit, the Second Fleet and the birth of modern Australasia - Part 1
Excerpt from "Year 9 Modern History Textbook" by the Australasian Department of Education(Actually By Hawkatana and Vilani99)
----
The process that led to the creation of the state that is now known as Australasia: the so-called "Blue Giant of the Pacific" can be traced to one place: the beaches of Gallipoli. Or rather, the board rooms and meeting chambers of the British, Australian, and New Zealander Ministries of War as they prepared for Gallipoli. As the First World War began and the call for troops reached the Dominions, one question permeated the wires flying between Whitehall and Canberra and Wellington; the designation for the Army Corps that would be assembled from the men raised from the two Dominions.
Whitehall made very clear a preference for an Australasian Army Corps; by using the name of a geographical region rather than any specific national term, Kitchener thought that the unity of the Empire and Commonwealth would be bolstered. In Wellington however, another belief was held; New Zealander recruits were complaining of a lack of representation in the name, and it was proposed that the formation be an Australian and New Zealand Army Corps, or ANZAC. After two weeks, Kitchener put his foot down, and the New Zealand government demurred; officially, the force deployed to Gallipoli would be the Australasian Army Corps [1].
However, the ANZAC proposal had been leaked to the press, and the name became an immediate cultural flashpoint in both nations as Australians and New Zealanders were both eager to assert identities separate from each other and the Metropole. While in memos and dispatches the unit and its two successors would be known as the Australasian Army Corps, the name on the lips of every Australian and New Zealander, from the lowest private to Sydney press headliners to the members of both Parliaments, would be ANZAC.
The naming debacle, combined with the horrendous losses the AAC experienced at Gallipoli, and by I and II AAC during the Somme, would create a lighting rod that a shared identity would form around. Ironically, the "Unity in Distinction" provided by the ANZAC terminology would do more to foster unity between the nations of Australasia than the AAC ever did. Twenty years later, as the Commonwealth of the Philippines was becoming a de facto Dominion in the wake of Red May, and the British sought to form a unified military command in the region, ANZAC returned in the form of ANZPAC (Australian, New Zealand, and Philippine Command). However, it failed to replace ANZAC as a signifier of identity in the nascent Australasian consciousness[2].
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For Australia and New Zealand, the 1920's were a period of reflection on the first world war, what it meant to the two British Dominions and what that meant for their place in the world. The events that had transpired at Gallipoli were at once both a traumatic experience and a formative point in the development of both the Australian and New Zealander identities. No longer were they "Temporarily-embarrassed Britons" as the Daily Telegraph once put, "but their own spiritually-distinct people" in part due to the creation and joint participations of the ANZAC divisions from Turkey to the Somme.
With the onset of the Great Depression in the early 1930s, Australia and New Zealand were struggling, and not just economically. In the decades since the ongoing talks leading up to Australia's federation on January 1st, 1901, the two dominions had begun to develop nascent national identities separate from Britain, and the metropole's inability, or perhaps unwillingness to help their colonial holdings, combined with the embarrassing defeat at Gallipoli only exacerbated the growing rift. However, even as they grew more and more distant from their former home country, the two nations grew closer. As material goods, finance, aid and even culture flowed across the Tasman Strait, the two island nations began to see each other almost as sister-countries, increasingly joined at the hip culturally, economically and politically.
However, this brotherly bond was tested when Australia passed the Black and Coloured Immigration Encouragement Act. Colloquially referred to as the "Populate or Perish Policy" after an MP for the Liberal Party of Australia cited the phrase as his justification for his support, the 1936 bill was a favourite of Prime Minister Earle Page. It reversed prior articles of legislation that had existed since before Federation on January 1st, 1901 which constituted what was colloquially referred to as the "White Australia Policy", which barred non-white people from immigrating to the country.
The Populate or Perish Policy encouraged immigration from other British colonies in India, Africa and the Caribbean, as well as from beyond the Empire, to move to Australia to revitalise the country's population and economy and build up Australia as a bulwark of anti-communism in the Pacific Ocean in case the United Republics and the rest of the Comintern were to ever go to war against the Commonwealth.
Conversely, New Zealand was led by the notoriously anti-immigration Labour Party, led at the time by Michael Joseph Savage. Savage was opposed to this decision, raising concerns that white workers would be replaced with lower-paid foreign (specifically Chinese) workers. Polemics flew across the Tasman Strait in what would be known as the Broadsheet War, though little ultimately came from it.
Across both nations however, the move was an extremely controversial and polarising one. The populations of both Australia and New Zealand were effectively split in half in regards to how to feel towards the policy. Famous Australian Bush Poet A.B. "Banjo" Paterson[3] was a known vocal critic of the policy before his death in 1941, while many politicians were supportive of such a move. The British themselves welcomed the move in order to "foster pan-Imperial solidarity".
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As the World War between the Comintern and the Axis began in earnest, Australia and New Zealand could do little but watch the carnage unfolding in eastern Europe and across the Pacific in South America. In public, all both countries could do was denounce the actions of Germany, Japan and Brazil as cruel acts of hatred and authoritarianism while being careful to never explicitly condone the ComIntern. However, secret joint-military exercises, officer exchange programs and blueprint sharing were carried out between the two countries' militaries off the record under the name "Operation Digger"[4], in the event the empire were to be dragged into the war.
The civilian governments also signed an agreement known as the Trans-Tasman Accord by October of 1940, allowing Australian and New Zealander citizens to freely move between the two nations, as well as an agreement for accepting the other's currency as legal tenure at a fixed 1-to-1 rate. Additionally, citizens of New Zealand living in Australia, and vice versa, would be allowed to vote in their country of residence's elections, at the cost of not being able to vote in their own for the duration of their residence. The two dominions were becoming further politically & economically intertwined to the point where their eventual union seemed a near-inevitability.
The Populate or Perish Policy would have an unexpected target, however. Refugees fleeing from fascist regimes, colonial poverty, and soft-civil wars in Eastern Asia, particularly parts of China, Daehan [5] and Indochina, would arrive in major ports like the Port of Darwin or Botany Bay in the millions. The Australian government welcomed them with open arms, though made sure that the new immigrants would meet three criteria: that they were to respect the laws, customs and culture of the then-white-majority Australia, that they learn English if they didn't already know it, and that they weren't sympathetic towards socialism or communism. A deal which most Asian refugees saw as more than worth the price.
However, the New Zealand government was far more sceptical of Oceania's new emigres, though quickly changed their tune upon the election of Prime Minister George Forbes[6] from the United Party of New Zealand. The new government quickly reversed course, allowing East and South Asians to settle in New Zealand more easily. The influx of around 4.5 Million East Asians from 1937 to 1942 would be just the first wave of what would eventually be known as "The Second Fleet"[7].
----
The integration of this new wave of Asian immigrants was surprisingly easy, something attributed to Australia's pre-existing Chinese diaspora community that arrived during the 1851 Gold Rush. Even still, most Second Fleet immigrants were able to adapt to their new home with astonishing ease, particularly out bush in rural and regional New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. A famous example often pointed to by modern Australasian liberals and progressives was a July 1940 news article from the Canberra Times about a Chinese man and a Ngunnawal[8] man bonding over both having the name "Kai".
That is not to say all was well, however. Anti-Asian sentiment across both Australia and New Zealand was beginning to rise even higher. Far-right and Nazi-sympathetic groups like Eric Campbell's New Guard even organised hate mobs against new Chinese & Daehanese families. Sydney suburbs like Newtown and Stanmore, which were quickly becoming hubs for the new Asian-Australian communities in the city, were derisively named "New Peking" by more openly-racist members of the population. This led to many clashes between the New Guard and Sydney police, many racially-motivated murders, and other similar incidents happening across both dominions. It eventually got bad enough that the state government of New South Wales threatened to send in the army if it continued, causing the sparks of the brewing "race war" fascist Australians had wanted to simmer down to a forced smoulder.
A popular revisionist narrative in modern Australasia is that this marked the beginnings of what would come to be known in some circles as the "Australasian Cultural Renaissance", with the introduction of East & South-Asian culture to the continent via the Second Fleet mixing with the already-existing Anglo-Saxon colonial culture as well as that of the Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islander and Maori people. In truth however, said "renaissance" wouldn't occur until the 50's, over a decade since the Second Fleet began to arrive in Australia and New Zealand.
Ironically, despite the requirement that all Second Fleet immigrants learn English, the opposite effect also occurred. Some white Australians picked up Mandarin, Chosunese and even Nipponese to help converse with their Asian counterparts. While not nearly as widespread as the inverse, it was notable enough to cause a minor moral panic, even leading to the 1941 Australian Federal Election ending in a Hung Parliament for the first time in the country's history over the issue of the Second Wave.
Those of Indian descent, perhaps unsurprisingly, fared mildly better in Australia and New Zealand. This was likely owed to a higher rate of English literacy and a perceived loyalty to the Crown and Empire at the time. They still faced many boundaries, though not as badly as those of Chinese, Nipponese, Daehanese or Indochinese descent. While their relationship with the East Asian communities was close, it was somewhat hindered by lingering cultural differences and perceptions of superiority between the different political poles of Asia.
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The situation had become tense, but still ultimately tenable for the governments of Australia and New Zealand, with the populations of both nations eventually coming to see their new neighbours as valuable members of their communities. But this fragile peace would shatter upon both the dominions being brought into their master's war against the threat of the Axis. And for many young men in future-Australasia, both white and Asian, an old enemy stood waiting on the other side of the equator.
Be it against the Italian Fascists and Turkish Turanists in the old graveyards of West Asia, or against the Japanese Empire for taking and defiling their old homes, the ANZACs would get their revenge against their old enemies and make their mark on this new, truly global, war.
One way or another…
[1] This is more or less what happened OTL, except for Kitchener nixing it - this is primarily due to the same butterflies that weakened the TTL Balmoral Declaration.
[2] The name saw some limited success in the Philippines in the Interbellum period, though it quickly fell out of favour shortly thereafter.
[3] Known as the "Bush Poet", and famous for the poems "Clancy of the Overflow" and "The Man from Snowy River", as well as the song "Waltzing Matilda".
[4] A reference to the colloquial names of ANZAC soldiers who fought in WWI. Famous for digging the trenches, hence the name.
[5] "Daehan" is the preferred term over "Chosun" for what we call Korea OTL in Australasia for a variety of reasons, not least being the political character of the dominant figures of the later waves of the Second Fleet
[6] 23rd Prime Minister of New Zealand and first Prime Minister of a united Australasia.
[7] The name is a colloquial name and not correct in an academic sense. The actual Second Fleet arrived in Sydney Cove in 1789 carrying convicts from the British isles and is infamous for the poor treatment of the passengers on board.
[8] Aboriginal Australian tribe local to Canberra and the surrounding towns of Cootamundra, Goulburn, Young & Tumut
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AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nah, with the insane adventures Tintin goes on he is going to do some sort of Houdini escape and then mess around in the insanity that is the Chinese Front of the Paciifc War, especially in Tibet.
Very interesting. Is it because the Japanese Empire and its war was that brutal, economonic troubles in Asia, economic opportunity in Australasia, or were there many anticommunists who left China, Dehan, and Nippon after they go communist?
vilani99
POSTING HAGUE INMATE
- Location
- the Salish Sea
- Pronouns
- He/Him
All but the last, those ones come in the next, bigger wave in the post-war.
AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Understood. I was bringing it up since I imagine many Japanese people would emigrate elsewhere once the Emprie capulitulates and a communist state is set up.
Actually, to add onto it, I imagine that some of the First and second wave might migrate even further, to India, Kenya, or Tanzania to work in mining operations there. It would he interesting to see those local cultures and interactions between the two groups, since with the African people the difference would be even greater than with simply East Asians vs White People.
Also not to distract from the Australsia discussion but I was watching a video about LEGO Fails:
View: https://youtu.be/bE9peQCPRBQ
And starting at 7:25 it talks about how LEGO has gone out of their way to not depict real life war and violence, so far as to not sell Grey bricks for a while since they worried children would make tanks, artillery, ect out of them.
Since in this TL LEGO eventually enters the video game market, it would be interesting if (with a few exceptions of course) they still enforce their rule on their consoles. I imagine that this creates a dichotomy in the AFS between the more acceptable but kid friendly LEGO consoles, and the more "adult" Ubsoft Consoles and PC Market.
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- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hoo, finally caught up.
World War 2 The Great Revolutionary War is going to be quite the shitshow TTL, isn't it? Middle Eastern and East African fronts that aren't side shows, the addition of new fronts in Cameroon, Spain, and the Tibetian Civil War, an entirely new theater in South America (which, if I am reading things right, has bogged down into Fields of Flanders Two: Brazilian Boogaloo), the Nazis actually reaching the gates of Moscow, the MN not getting bitch slapped so it can pose a threat to RN in the Atlantic and Mediterranean... about the only "upside" I can think of beyond the United States Republics being involved from the start is that Japan's takeover of the Dutch East Indies bears more resemblance to a coup than invasion, and that might mean a few less lives lost.
Spartakrod
Judeo-Spartacist Bolshevik-Kabbalist
- Location
- Sanctum Arcanorum
- Pronouns
- Fae/Faer/Faers/Faerself
Yes, we don't have many coders so work is gradual.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Huh sounds like Australia might come out of this less racist than OTL.
Miss Teri
The Queen
- Location
- West
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Relatively. Stay tuned
1942 UASR Election, Part 1
Asami
Chairwoman of the Imperial Governance Council
- Location
- Florida
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The 1942 United Republics general election was held from 1 to 3 May 1942 to elect the V. All-Union Congress of Soviets. The collapse of the True Democrats as a viable political faction in the Congress following their proscription by the Directorate of State Security, along with weakening anti-war sentiment among independents due to the ongoing conflict with the Germans and Japanese had lead to both the Workers' Communist Party and the Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party increasing their share of seats in the Congress.
The Antifascist Popular Front - or the Revolutionary Unity Government, was re-elected and reappointed with minimal fuss or delay, ushering in a second term for Premier John Reed.
The Congress' size increased from 2,046 delegates in the 1940 Congress to 2,095 in the 1942 Congress.
The Antifascist Popular Front - or the Revolutionary Unity Government, was re-elected and reappointed with minimal fuss or delay, ushering in a second term for Premier John Reed.
The Congress' size increased from 2,046 delegates in the 1940 Congress to 2,095 in the 1942 Congress.
| Party | Leader | Abbreviation | Last Election | Seats Before | Seats After |
| Workers' Communist Party | John Reed | WCP | 1209 | 1255 | 1301 |
| Democratic Farmer-Labor | Harry Truman | DFLP | 688 | 649 | 653 |
| Democratic-Republican | Thomas Dewey | DRP | 146 | 140 | 139 |
| Anti-War Independents | Jeanette Rankin | IND | 3 | 2 | 2 |
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AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Excuse me if you are already using this, but the site HOI4 Modding might help you do things like focus trees.
- Location
- London
So with regards to Tintin how likely is it Herge gets hanged this time? While not exactly a fascist ( he took the Le Soir gig because he needed money) Herge was fairly Right and did publish Shooting Star and was jailed at the end of the war for having been a collaborator. He beat the rap since many in Belgium considered Tintin the only entertainment they had in some very dark times and since Tintin wouldn't be famous outside of Le Francophone for another three decades it was an internal matter only. Here he's well known enough to have parodies published and that may influence whatever reckoning comes post war...
Herge was also an early critic of Japanese imperialism - partnering with a Chinese artist to make the Blue Lotus - and the evidence for collaboration was extremely thin. I don't think the existence of a parody in this timeline means he was necessarily more prominent, just that among the many many war-era media one was dedicated to him. So overall his mixed but overall positive reputation has a chance to survive
I think the UASR and this version of the USSR are unlikely to push for execution, same goes for the FBUnion. Depending on which side of the border he ends up on Herge might be sentenced to some kind of reform program though, and his future career is highly variable (especially if he dies during the war)
Miss Teri
The Queen
- Location
- West
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's a piece that's coming up that goes into detail about Tintin and his alternate stories, but Herge, as OTL, is just a children's author who had tenuous involvement with the regime, so I doubt they'd push for severe punishment, though also as OTL, he could be mildly sanctioned.
- Location
- London
So broadly as OTL, can't publish for a few years? Although I assume there might be more insistence on getting Soviets, Congo and alt-America out of circulation?
Shit,this could enrage Hitler enough to start the Final Solution ahead of schedule.
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
what?
its 1942 at this point. do you think the nazis were not killing jewish people before 1942?
Apologies,forgot how much time had passed. Everyone took much longer to prepare here.
- Location
- London
Not to mention that British relations with Germany had very little to do with the timing of the Final Solution, what accelerated it OTL was the Nazi's going into Poland and then Russia and getting control of not hundreds of thousands but millions of Jews who Hitler wanted gone in accordance with his "prophecy." All the madcap plans (sending them to Madagascar or even Palestine and the like) were always non starters and once the Reich crosses the Soviet border the Einsatzgrupppen were always going to come into play.
Britain holding its nose to ally with communism against a greater threat was never going to change any of that. Especially since going by the Eichmann trial and other records it was about what method was most "efficient," which was never going to be shipping people half a world away (especially since given the whole "Jewish Bolskovik conspiracy" crap I don't see the Nazi's believing mere exile has defeated their so called enemy). It was always going to be death, in fact the only thing Britain swinging into line will achieve is to see Hitler abandon any hope of getting them on side and scheduling the same treatment he has planned for the rest of the world. Since he can't ever get across the channel, that isn't an issue anyway.
The only real shock is Eddie lasted a few years as King ITTL...
Spartakrod
Judeo-Spartacist Bolshevik-Kabbalist
- Location
- Sanctum Arcanorum
- Pronouns
- Fae/Faer/Faers/Faerself
Marginalisation of Jewry, the disabled, Roma, Queers, African Germans, and Mixed-Race people began almost immediately after Hitler's consolidation of power with the Reichstag fire and the threat of it began basically the moment the NSDAP was prominent in politics. Deeply repressive racial and sexual laws were on the books by 1935, and Pogromnacht had started in 1938. However notably, Dachau was opened before Hitler even got autocratic powers in 1933 with official boycotts of Jewish businesses, mass book burnings, and the removal of citizenship from Jewish immigrants all in the same year.
Undesirables in Poland were forced into Ghettos basically immediately, and the Commissar Order which de facto meant random mass murder of anyone who looked at the German army funny was put into effect basically from the moment the invasion of the USSR began. Edward's occupation of the throne means absolutely nothing regarding the NSDAP's decision to begin the final solution. It's not even a factor. The intent of the NSDAP was always to liquidate the untermenschen, they just didn't agree on the way to do it. The Madagascar plan was meant to in essence, force the Jewry into violent, existential conflict with the native Malahasi on an island renown for being rife with diseases deadly to Europeans. It was a slow, off-shored genocide plan where they'd get to watch Jews and Black People kill each other for a laugh.
It was also ultimately dismissed as impractical for many reasons and ultimately the violence of Germany's war of conquest, culling, and colonisation was inherent to it being a war of conquest, culling, and colonisation. The Nazi party is fundamentally uninterested in regime change or territorial exchange, they want a vast empire full of people they can exploit and abuse to enrich themselves while slowly killing them off through immiseration and straight up intentional famine and bullets to the head to free up land for speculation and cheap purchase by less well off German citizenry.
By 1942 Edward's abdication has as much influence on the Third Reich's decision to commence its liquidation as the weather on Jupiter. For one thing, it's already started because the character, the aims, and the methods of the war against the Soviet Union and Americans cannot allow for anything else. What the Nazis want out of their war is not something that is conducive to anything less than mass scale murder. They aren't looking for client states, they aren't looking for regime change, they aren't even looking to simply absorb territory; they're looking to take land that is not part of the German Nation-state and remove any obstacle to it not being part of that nation-state in body and spirit.
And in Blood and Soil nationalistic ideology which is the fundamental basis of Nazism, the Volk is defined on a necessarily racial basis to create an other that is acceptable to deprive and loot to siphon off wealth for the rulers of Germany with the Volk getting a little piece as a treat. Furthermore, its a conflict being waged to annihilate the perceived external source of the communist movement by utterly breaking the USSR as a thing that exists in such a way that it never rises again as a threat to future Nazi geopolitical goals. Furthered in Reds! by the NSDAP's ambitions to use the USSR as a resource springboard for a final war with the Union of American Socialist Republics to be bled dry to feed the sort of war machine they estimate will be needed to one day invade and conquer America and wipe the slate clean.
So ultimately, everything you just said is wrong.
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Although we've heard of fascist collaborators and volunteers from many countries I was wondering if there is any significant pro-Axis sabotage or such in Australasia and Ireland? I don't think pro-Axis activities in the Latin American socialist and People's Democracy state has been mentioned either. May be mistaken. I was just thinking about the attempts to reach out to Scottish Nationalists by the NSDAP OTL that didn't go anywhere and the Blue Shirts in Ireland as well as the New Guard mentioned in the recent Australasia post. Also groups in Canada like the fascists in Quebec and the KKK chapters in western Canada.
And on the opposite side of the coin has Mussolini been more successful than OTL at purging underground leftists? Are the White Roses still a thing?
And on the opposite side of the coin has Mussolini been more successful than OTL at purging underground leftists? Are the White Roses still a thing?
Raiho-kun
This Cycle's Second Biggest Communism Builder
Not everyone with known fascist sympathies is going to be put up against the wall, even if they express those sympathies through a fairly popular comic or newspaper or whatever.
Julius Streicher (who I see being used as precedent for this topic occasionally) was a particular case in that he wasn't just a particularly hateful, vile cartoonist but a member of the Nazi party whose works were, for all intents and purposes, part of the regime's propaganda apparatus.