Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline
- Thread starter Aelita
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- Timeline Post-1900 Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I wonder how much Stalin's memory will be rehabilitated due to this, it's easier to be seen in a sympathetic light when you died tragically defending the motherland against fascist invaders.
(and of course this Stalin had his worst impulses tempered by the need to keep the Americans on side)
(and of course this Stalin had his worst impulses tempered by the need to keep the Americans on side)
Mal-3
Fun Tyrant
Based on the Steel Memes chapter, I'd say that he's seen as more sympathetic than OTL , plus the whole getting got in the middle of the Battle of Moscow throws a few shades of martyrdom on TTL's Stalin the OTL one never had, but he's, you know, still Stalin. There's only so much you can work with there.
(Also, you know Reds! isn't a utopia because there are Beria stans loose in the wild there, goddamn.)
Miss Teri
The Queen
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- West
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You'll find anyone to support anything, no matter how heinous.
That's a multiversal constant.
Spylobster
Centrist-Malenyevist
I could see Stalin being treated by leftists similar to how OTL liberals view Churchill as a heroic figure of anti-Nazi resistance while papering over his many unsavoury aspects.
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There was a post-war "fuck Stalin" moment, and it seems to have mostly succeeded, but he's then had several generations which means he's been rehabilitated by at least one to two historians every generation. 
LuxemburgLover69
There are more things between Heaven and Earth...
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I'm a bit late catching up but this was a really good update. Love the feeling of battles here; the constant pull and tug. Zhukov exchange made me laugh. Happy to see my fav AltHist timeline continue pushing out bangers.
To be fair,his opinion on the half naked Indian Fakir softened over time as I understand it.
AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
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Well I did not mean for it to go into this long of a tangent, plus:
Again, sorry if it was futustating to you, I was just curious about the timeline I love and wanted to ask a question about the distant future of it
Such a thing, even if it is not very big would be truly crushing for the ethnic minorities oppressed, relocated, and genocided by him
Well,we Indians got over Churchill,right?
Right?😬
Stalin:Only a little bit...
AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
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of what?
Raiho-kun
This Cycle's Second Biggest Communism Builder
There are no population transfers beyond 1940. Before then, for incidents like the deportation of Koreans, I'm not so sure but I doubt that one in particular happens (would be a bad look to the Americans trying to develop the Soviet Far East, anyway). In general, a lot of the worst aspects of the Stalin-era Soviet Union by then are blunted for several reasons: a quick and decisive victory in the Civil War (relative to OTL), an earlier recognition by and establishment of trade with the West, and the ascendance of the United Republics.
In general, Stalin's legacy is almost going to be viewed the same way Mao's is in OTL's PRC today. Mostly good, and the bad parts are more due to circumstance and error (as one in the driver's seat of an encircled worker's state would expect) rather than the hostile intent of one man, albeit with some exceptions like Bukharin's execution. That compounded by the fact that historiography is going to look at him leader of the dominant faction within the VKP(b) rather than a dictatorial "Great Man", which is closer to reality. It also helps that, unlike OTL, everything "worked out" for the Soviet Union in the end.
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Miss Teri
The Queen
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It's fine if it's in a reasonable time scale, but AI seems more a topic for the ASB thread, given that it is predominantly in "the distant future"
Speaking of,I often wonder where all the Neo Nazis are in Star Trek.Ideas are everythingproof minus actual mind control.An enterprising author appears to have wondered as well.
Brotherhood of the Aryan Race
The Brotherhood of the Aryan Race was a secret society of neo-Nazis. Sometime after 1945, fanatical members of the former Nazi Party took an oath to keep the "predictions" of Adolf Hitler true: namely, to have the "Third Reich" last for a thousand years. At first, the Brotherhood was silent...
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I'm sorry, this is relevant to Reds! how...?Speaking of,I often wonder where all the Neo Nazis are in Star Trek.Ideas are everythingproof minus actual mind control.An enterprising author appears to have wondered as well.
Brotherhood of the Aryan Race
The Brotherhood of the Aryan Race was a secret society of neo-Nazis. Sometime after 1945, fanatical members of the former Nazi Party took an oath to keep the "predictions" of Adolf Hitler true: namely, to have the "Third Reich" last for a thousand years. At first, the Brotherhood was silent...memory-gamma.fandom.com
Sorry,I am kind of scatterbrained sometimes.
I think Hitler's ideal would have been an eternal cosmic cold war with worthy opponents.Any player that buckles under in his view deserves to die.Anyone who doesn't want eternal struggle for survival deserves to die.
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This has been discussed pretty extensively both in and out of this thread.
His worst atrocities (32-33 famine, forced mass ethnic deportations, "rootless cosmopolitan" purge) are averted ITTL but he doesn't have the better half of his WWII leadership career (and the postwar propaganda campaign enshrining him as sole architect of victory) to "rehabilitate" his remaining crimes (Yezhovschina). However, he does have an extra positive in his favor in giving vital support to the nascent American revolution.
Overall my judgment is that Stalin's historical reputation is slightly better but also he is a less polarizing figure because his crimes are openly discussed and the wholesale whitewashing of his legacy is relegated to a fringe crank position rather than a mainstream one among the communist movement.
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Something I've been a little confused about for some time now is the precise timeline of German conquest in the 1940-43 time span, particularly in 1941, in contrast with OTL. It's been directly alluded that the Germans briefly capture Stalingrad outright during Operation Valkyrie, but at the same time in the last update is appears like the German offensives of Army Group South were much less successful than IOTL, being halted short of Rostov. This is what I can gather, I think?
* Teutonic in 1940 is considerably less spectacularly successful than Barbarossa, in particular in Ukraine where the front stalls at the Dnieper
* In 1941 INTREV launch a summer counter-offensive (Bagration) that is a major failure, weakening the defenses at a critical moment that allows a German summer-fall offensive (Valkyrie) to be considerably more successful (a la the Smolensk-Vi'azama counter-offensives of IOTL October 1941)
* The southern portion of Valkyrie is considerably less successful than IOTL Barbarossa, the Kiev pocket is slightly less catastrophic than IOTL and more Soviet troops escape the trap (including Kirponos himself) but a German spearhead manages to lunge toward and briefly capture Stalingrad in winter 1941, but are driven out by the INTREV "backhand blow" (this is a particular sticking point of confusion for me)
* German progress in the north, against Leningrad, is the most successful vector of Teutonic but is driven back by more successful INTREV counter-offensives in winter 1940.
* Army Group Center is the focus of German offensive efforts for Valkyrie, and comes even closer to outright encircling Moscow compared to OTL, but are strung out more dangerously as a result and the "backhand blow" counter-offensive against AGC is considerably more successful than the IOTL winter 1941 Soviet counter-offensive. This butterfly is heavily implied to be because - due to the absence of the miraculous IOTL Fall of France - Hitler doesn't have the same level of clout to strongarm his top generals into focusing more on the southern front and agrees with their recommendations.
* It's heavily implied that the German summer-fall 1942 offensive (the Fall Blau equivalent) will be considerably more successful than IOTL in that it reaches and besieges Baku, but fails to even reach Stalingrad ITTL because it has been heavily, heavily fortified as an obvious target (a Kursk equivalent) (I'm going off my knowledge of the old AH.com thread here).
Again, the precise progress of the southern front 1940-1942 is the most confusing part of what's been described so far.
AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
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Valid point. But could you provide me a link, I can't seem to find it.
He would probably also be a very hardline human supremacist, and if the universe has much alien life he would probably kill most of the aliens and reduce the rest to a mass of slaves doing all of the work for the human oppressors.
Also this has been bugging me but with Japan being in a proxy war with the Soviets that ends badly and in outright war with the UASR and FBU, I find it very unlikely that Japan would ever surrender simply with the atom bombs ot even with an invasion. OTL they surrendered because they hoped that thr Soviets would mediate a conditional peace between them and the Allies that would keep the Emperor, whih was crushed when they joined the war, but here they would be very hostile to Japan due to that whole war they had, and they would have much less hope that the Empeor would still rule with one side being a Communist State, and hopes for mercy from the FBU would die when they find out about the Azad Hind Bengal Genocide and many many many other attricites they did in their colonies.
From my point of view and headcannon, this in combination with Japan doing much better in the early stages of the war (as seen in the Reds! Great Cursade thread on althist.com) would most likely lead to a longer Pacific War ending in 47 or 48 and culminating with a full joint FBU-UASR invasion of the Japanese mainland (with the FBU more than willing to cross the UASR's line and nuke and gas most Japanese cities), and a bloody campaign to crush the Japanese army in Indochina and China.
And this would not be the end. Even if the Emperor surrenders with there being a Communitst Republic declared and the Royal Family being abolished if not imprisoned or executed, and the whole hierarchical order of Japanese society being completely demolished by the VOSCOM Occupation, I imagine that there would then be a years long insurgency by pro-Empeor gurrillas and whatever remains of the IJA.
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
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Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, the vast majority of Japanese people aren't psychotic Emperor worshiping robots that will keep fighting for the Emperor no matter what.
There might be a nasty gurrilla Insurgency for a few years after the war but we almost certainly won't see the total apocalyptic collapse and depopulation of Japan like some have predicted.
There might be a nasty gurrilla Insurgency for a few years after the war but we almost certainly won't see the total apocalyptic collapse and depopulation of Japan like some have predicted.
AG_AG
I love vegetarian food: it goes great with steak
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I wasn't trying to imply that. I imagine that only a month or two after the Invasion and a few FBU nukings that Japan would probably surrender. I just was pointing out that am ending with Japan just surrendering in a similar way to OTL would be much more unlikely.
Also many or the gurrillas probably would not be Emperor fanatics, probably disgruntled military men and young men who are angry than the system they have lived in and been introctinated into their whole lives is being torn down by foreigners once (to them) more radical changes are implemented, though it depends at what rate it is done.
Also on the total apocalypse comment haven't we already see a tonned down version of that OTL with the sheer destructions oem Japanese cities suffered during fire bombing raids?
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I'm not sure where this part in particular comes from, I think you've got events from 1942 mixed up with events from 1941. The Southern wing of German advances in Operation Apostle reached their goals of the Donbass region, then resources were shifted to support the Army Group Center's drive on Moscow.