[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
[X] Leave them behind
-[X] mark the fields to make this easier for whooever gets stuck with it and avoid needless friendly casualties.
[X] Press the city with methodical attacks aimed at securing good artillery positions overlooking the harbor and cutting off the city from the sea, so as to seize the boats requested by High Command and block any lines of escape or reinforcement. Limit casualties otherwise by reducing strongpoints rather than trying to take the defenders by storm, unless the defenses have collapsed completely. If you can capture the boats it won't matter if Azgle arrives and helps mop up resistance.
[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
[X] Leave them behind
-[X] mark the fields to make this easier for whooever gets stuck with it and avoid needless friendly casualties.
[X] Press the city with methodical attacks aimed at securing good artillery positions overlooking the harbor and cutting off the city from the sea, so as to seize the boats requested by High Command and block any lines of escape or reinforcement. Limit casualties otherwise by reducing strongpoints rather than trying to take the defenders by storm, unless the defenses have collapsed completely. If you can capture the boats it won't matter if Azgle arrives and helps mop up resistance.
[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
[X] Leave them behind
-[X] mark the fields to make this easier for whooever gets stuck with it and avoid needless friendly casualties.
[X] Press the city with methodical attacks aimed at securing good artillery positions overlooking the harbor and cutting off the city from the sea, so as to seize the boats requested by High Command and block any lines of escape or reinforcement. Limit casualties otherwise by reducing strongpoints rather than trying to take the defenders by storm, unless the defenses have collapsed completely. If you can capture the boats it won't matter if Azgle arrives and helps mop up resistance.
[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
[X] Leave them behind
-[X] mark the fields to make this easier for whooever gets stuck with it and avoid needless friendly casualties.
[X] Press the city with methodical attacks aimed at securing good artillery positions overlooking the harbor and cutting off the city from the sea, so as to seize the boats requested by High Command and block any lines of escape or reinforcement. Limit casualties otherwise by reducing strongpoints rather than trying to take the defenders by storm, unless the defenses have collapsed completely. If you can capture the boats it won't matter if Azgle arrives and helps mop up resistance.
We chose a commander in the mold of a Montgomery, not Rommel. Set piece affairs play to our strengths, while rushing right in following a humiliation seems like the setup to further avoidable losses. We've got an important and reasonable secondary objective that, if achieved, means we'll cut off the defenders from escape and secure the boats that High Command wants for whatever reason. So I think we should attack as soon as possible to take advantage of any disorganization, but avoid going all-in unless the defense is more feeble than anticipated. Sharing the credit is fine and maybe even helpful as long as we get credit for doing the most substantial bit of work and insuring the victory is total.
So your last vote is a modified version of going alone?
I think you're going to have to somewhat change your vote for the next update because thats when you get the detailed map. I was planning on leaving the strategising for the next update. The last vote was for how long you want to wait to mass the different brigades or go alone. Basically, this vote will determine how many troops you will have to deploy in the next updates map, what tactics to use etc.
So your last vote is a modified version of going alone?
I think you're going to have to somewhat change your vote for the next update because thats when you get the detailed map. I was planning on leaving the strategising for the next update. The last vote was for how long you want to wait to mass the different brigades or go alone. Basically, this vote will determine how many troops you will have to deploy in the next updates map, what tactics to use etc.
Ah, fair enough. If we can actually choose how we go alone then the modified vote isn't necessary. I thought it was necessarily storming the city immediately and wanted a more methodical and casualty-averse approach, but if that's something that can be selected next vote then I'll certainly withdraw the modified proposal.
[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
(Developing a good long term relationship with your logistics is worth the malign attention of a slim-ball. Worst comes to worst, we can arrange an incident to remove him in the future, and nothing of value will be lost)
[X] Leave them behind
-[X] mark the fields to make this easier for whooever gets stuck with it and avoid needless friendly casualties.
[X] Press the city with methodical attacks aimed at securing good artillery positions overlooking the harbor and cutting off the city from the sea, so as to seize the boats requested by High Command and block any lines of escape or reinforcement. Limit casualties otherwise by reducing strongpoints rather than trying to take the defenders by storm, unless the defenses have collapsed completely. If you can capture the boats it won't matter if Azgle arrives and helps mop up resistance.
We are already using the Darcsen as supply laborers, so they are not always with our army. They are already moving in between commands through already 'occupied' ground so having them on mine collection duty is hardly putting them at any more risk for being nabbed by hunters than what we already have them doing. It also gives us an extra reason to keep them that the Major would approve of, in that they are doing a dangerous job rather than having our soldiers do it.
Finally, we are kind of socially programed to think less of the Darcsen so why wouldn't we want them to be the one's doing that same dangerous job, especially as it gets us another resource.
Remember while we might want to do the 'right thing' as the gods pulling strings, we need to have excuses for doing it so that our puppet doesn't become a madman doing completely random things, going against his culture, upbringing, society or birth etc. IE the more excuses we can find to keep the Darcsen around, and help them, and thereby realize that they are useful and good people, the more we can treat them well in return as it will be a self supporting cycle of attitude change rather than going from, "Darcsen are feckless thieves" to "Darcsen are special snoflakes" without a clutch.
[X] "I'm afraid that is not possible"
Deny him. Nope. Politely tell him to sod off like the scum he is, maybe you'll reconsider if they actually fight like real soliders.
[X] Leave them behind
They can be collected by rear echelon troops later or by the locals themselves. Its not like the country has no shortage of bloody mines or expertise.
-[X] Mark the fields and then assign Frenzel's Darksen laborers to collecting them. This is further cause to retain the Darksen rather than hand them over to the kind Major.
[X] Attack the city on your own
+ immediate assault, + no chain of command issues, + maximum glory, + less time for enemy response, - alone, - may be spread thin, - major resistance could derail affairs.
Important note: Your forces can go through any of the colours above, barring water (blue). Don't feel you have to go through the grey main roads around them.
Points 1-3 are the bases where you deploy your troops from. Just like in the games except on a larger scale.
Green is wooded terrain and would impede vehicles. There is also a park at the centre of the city.
Grey represents the major thoroughfares, the main arterial roads through the city. They are the easiest terrain for your forces to move through. Beware, any enemy present will be aware of this. Your forces are likely to encounter roadblocks and other such obstacles of resistance that may slow them down.
Yellow represents residential housing. It is moderately harder to move through than grey areas.
Orange represents industrial areas such as factories. It is much harder to move through than grey areas but still achievable if needed.
Brown represents the docklands. There will probably be many ships here.
Red represents the major governmental buildings. Important capture points likely to be defended.
Warships: There are several federation warships waiting in the bay. The largest is a light cruiser with the rest being lighter ships. They are likely there to escort the multitude of civilian ships being filled with straggling troops and panicking refugees out of the country. They may or may not take pot shots at your forces close to the shore. However they lack the sheer power and range in shore bombardment of a true capital ship that would stop you cold.
Order of battle:
Light Infantry
Heavy Infantry
Armour
33rd Chasseur battalion
17th Jaeger battalion
11th Grenadier Battalion
21th Fusilier Battalion
82nd Line battalion
7th Cuirassier Battalion
Go to the front page for more information on battalions.
Supporting battalions: none
Total number of troops: 4315
Total number of supporting troops: 0
Points of interest:
1. Northwest base (NW)
2. Western base (W)
3. Southwestern base (SW)
4. Shore Battery: A fort built to defend from naval attack. Situated on an elevated prominence aka hill. Likely has outdated heavy artillery guns that could still be used if captured quickly enough. Would also be a nice spot for your own artillery.
5. Darcsen Slums: Situated in the south of the city close to the main docks. Loyalist reports describe the place and the area around it as being written off by any remaining regular troops and the slew of militias you will be facing. Such an area lacking in defences or even weapons could provide an easy path into the heart of the city.
[Insert the above image with arrows of where you want the various battalions to go]
Strategy: Any extra notes and orders i.e:
- NW forces take the shore battery together. 33rd and half the 7th battalions splits off afterwards and captures northern docklands while artillery sets up on the hill of the fort.
- W forces etc.
Hmm. Light infantry to take the battery, armor swings south to take potshots at the dock area and any munitions being loaded especially, and heavy infantry to attack into the city?
- Niederbayern's 11th Grenadier Battalion will take on the Shore battery. We want this preferably captured or torn down via exploves. If we can take control of it we can stop any and all ships from leaving as well as hitting the towns command points. Artillery should be divided into two groups. One with 80% called "Alpha Spot" and a second called "Beta Spot" with the other 20%. Beta will focus on helping the 11th take the tower or destroy it. Once it's either captured or destroyed they are to move and over look the warships/transports. None are allowed to leave! Roumanias (that's their name right?) president is most likely on board wanting to leave. We must stop him.
Alpha spot will over look the town with emphasis on the industrial sector and the major goverment buildings. They are to provide coordnates and enemy movement to our other battalions. This will be our first attack.
- 17th Jaeger Battalion and the Anhalt 82nd Battalion are to take point 5 with Jaeger continuing on to take the Industrial north of Pt 5. Jaegar may retreat only if opposition is too strong for his men due to a supreme numerical or asset advantage (Not going to expect light infantry to take on 3 tiems their number or tanks alone. Too many casualties that can happen.). Anhalt will hold in case of a counter attack and provide a withdraw point in case the 17th gets outgunned. Tanks will be deployed here and swing around to do what DaLintyGuy said. Which is to flank around and hit their industrial ports munitions to cause fires and casualties. They are not to commit heavily and should be ready to support the 17th and 82nd when asked. Will get into position and attempt to stay hidden and wait for either the capture of the battery, it's destruction, or if they feel they need to act due to enemy alert.
- Auvergne's 33rd Chasseur battalion is to be deplyed on point 2 along with the Limousin's 24th Fusilier Battalion. I want them to aim for the largest residential buildings as well as the skinnier middle residential buildings on the outskirts. They are to advance and close in on the Government building and not look to kill on sight any and all soldiers. Trust no civilians, their are most likely suacide bombers waiting for us and they are to expect an ambush. Which is why they should as quickly as possible clear all buildings before advancing on the roads.
Will get into position and attempt to stay hidden and wait for either the capture of the battery, it's destruction, or if they feel they need to act due to enemy alert.
All other battalions will be kept in the reserve to and deployed where their needed to help dislodge a stiff enemy resistance.
An important question: if we take the shore battery, can we turn it's fire onto the docks? I'd rather do that then try and hit ships out in the open because... Well, let's just say we have no artillerymen in a light foot battalion and go with that (okay, there probably are some, but they'd be closer to mortars and light field guns than naval artillery).
Is it that hard to turn the guns against their dudes? I imagine it being like a tanks gun where you load the munition, aim, and then press/pull something to fire.
There is none. The last crossing is much further upstream. So you control how much you want to deploy on either side. Once its done you are committed. Heck, you could ignore the whole north bank if you wanted. The locals use ferries for moving people though thats obviously impractical for you.
Well, let's just say we have no artillerymen in a light foot battalion and go with that (okay, there probably are some, but they'd be closer to mortars and light field guns than naval artillery).
I'd actually recomend avoiding the darcsen slums entirely. Partly because it could easily be a trap, partially because not wrecking their houses makes them less likely to cause us problems. Also various post battle stuff which makes sense in my head but which i'm having trouble explaining coherently. Security, logistical, propaganda and administrative factors.
The shore battery is a necessary target. It's also a very obvious one. I'd expect it to be either as well defended as possible or (almost) totally abandoned, and probably booby trapped.
Sending armour into a city is just asking for trouble, but tanks vs warships? The warships win every time. Tanks taking potshots at the ships are just target practice, as anything worthy to be called a warship has more range, armour penetration (mostly due to shear mass of shell, even from a destroyer), explosive force per shell, and armour than a tank does.
Fortunately for all concerned, un less the armour's commander does something very dim, in the normal course of events the terrain basically renders a ship no different from a distant artillary battery. Dangerous, a consideration, but not a unit ender. Getting into the tanks' gun range is just such a dim thing unless the ship is actually Docked at a pier/dock and the tank can trundle through a city or trees etc right up to close range. (and even then, it's as direct, close artillery support for infantry, ideally.)
To deal with ships which aren't docked, you use artillery (ideally in fortified bunkers), your own navy, or elite (and properly equiped) infantry. (Assuming no relevant air assets.)
If we do send armour into the town, it pretty much needs to be individual or small numbers of tanks as support for infantry. In the open, tanks fill much the same role as heavy cavalry once did. In close confines, they're basically artillary/buldozer/mobile cover vs small arms, in terms of their vulnerabilities and uses. treating them otherwise just gets them ambushed and exploded. Large groups of them get trapped and rendered useless when one or two at each end are taken out, for example.
...
Yeah, that would be my thinking on the subject at leadt.
Probably a good idea. It's pretty common for things to stall if "what do?" Is asked with no options as a jumping off point for discussion.
Not that that's why my post didn't include a vote, that was more "I'm bad at keeping track of information when i can't easily see it all at once, so planing is hard".
Sending armour into a city is just asking for trouble, but tanks vs warships? The warships win every time. Tanks taking potshots at the ships are just target practice, as anything worthy to be called a warship has more range, armour penetration (mostly due to shear mass of shell, even from a destroyer), explosive force per shell, and armour than a tank does.
I actually forget, but is this World War One or Two expy? Even in WW2 naval support wasn't very good at doing stuff, and shelling their own city? Likely not something they are going to do recklessly or much.
Tanks also have mobility, and I doubt there are any actual warships in the docks. The boats might be ferrying them to the warships, but they aren't going to be in a place where they might be overrun.
I'd actually recomend avoiding the darcsen slums entirely. Partly because it could easily be a trap, partially because not wrecking their houses makes them less likely to cause us problems. Also various post battle stuff which makes sense in my head but which i'm having trouble explaining coherently. Security, logistical, propaganda and administrative factors.
Indeed. Not to mention, slums are warrens that could easily be used by Darcsens, hearing what has been done earlier to others of their race, to cut apart our units with weapons 'lost in the retreat' by regular units.
The shore battery is a necessary target. It's also a very obvious one. I'd expect it to be either as well defended as possible or (almost) totally abandoned, and probably booby trapped.
Fortunately for all concerned, un less the armour's commander does something very dim, in the normal course of events the terrain basically renders a ship no different from a distant artillary battery. Dangerous, a consideration, but not a unit ender. Getting into the tanks' gun range is just such a dim thing unless the ship is actually Docked at a pier/dock and the tank can trundle through a city or trees etc right up to close range. (and even then, it's as direct, close artillery support for infantry, ideally.)
If we do send armour into the town, it pretty much needs to be individual or small numbers of tanks as support for infantry. In the open, tanks fill much the same role as heavy cavalry once did. In close confines, they're basically artillary/buldozer/mobile cover vs small arms, in terms of their vulnerabilities and uses. treating them otherwise just gets them ambushed and exploded. Large groups of them get trapped and rendered useless when one or two at each end are taken out, for example.
Indeed, hence my suggestion to use them as cavalry: swing around and start harassing and cause panic to the troops trying to load onto ships on the dock.
[x] 3man75
I have no real issues with it. Although we might want to probe the enemy cities defenses before launching an all out attack on portions of it's interior. Not to mention make sure that they can't cut off some of our units.
I actually forget, but is this World War One or Two expy? Even in WW2 naval support wasn't very good at doing stuff, and shelling their own city? Likely not something they are going to do recklessly or much.
Interwar expy. Also most the warships in the bay are not Merovian but other federation countries. The locals can't afford much of a navy apart from patrol boats and a couple of escorts.
I get the feeling that some of the discussion is focusing too much on micromanaging, focusing too much on the small scale. Stuff like send in the armour in small numbers to support infantry. Your subordinates can handle that. You should focus more on overarching orders.
Posting the options in an hour or two. All the maps are done.
