Archon of Ghosts
Servant of Rome
- Location
- Luxembourg
I'll join this ride, and see if we can get Rudolf out of this mess.
[X] Plan: Double Pincer
[X] Plan: Double Pincer
Pro Patria (Valkyria Chronicles)
- Thread starter Emdeman
- Start date
- Location
- .
[X] Plan: Double Pincer
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
@Spacegnom Think you mean discretion, there?
[x] Plan: Double Pincer
That's about what I'd have suggested. Even if we decide we don't want to take and sit in Sinope, we can't just rush for the base and supplies and abandon our backlines entirely, which means we shouldn't leave Herea sitting in our rear when they appear so disorganized. They also shouldn't be that hard to defeat and taking easy victories is going to be good for our prestige and morale and we can get some more experience for our greener troops on top of that.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan: Double Pincer
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
@Spacegnom
I do like the plan but I do have some suggestions I'd like you to consider. For directions, I am using the reference point of the top of the map being north, since I'm kind of confused which way is which and I'm shit in making maps.
1. I think the Seaguard should take the ridge, the woods, and the hill in between the defensive lines in order to flank them and keep the defenders split into two. There are probably Federals defending them, but I think the Seaguard have the numbers to take them. If you feel they are not up to the task, perhaps attaching one of Rudolf's battalions to them might stiffen them up a little. The Seaguard plus the attachment might actually end up encircling the defense line at the beach and contribute to the encirclement of the double defense line. Perhaps, it may not even be necessary to encircle the defense line in the beach.
2. I also think that the woods east of the double defensive line should be taken as it also flanks their position (double flank!). It is also probably defended though and to deal with that, Rudolf should use the rest of his brigade to support Vorbeck's force in taking it before continuing on their assigned positions. I am confident that Mueller can reach the rear of the double line position in reasonable time and I am thinking that the rest of Rudolf's brigades will be positioned to cover Vorbeck's force from possible attacks from Sinope's direction. I really want to deal with the Federal forces near Herea quickly.
3. Pydan's assault on the treeline west of the Federation base should be supported by Baumann's armour acting in an infantry support role. That may be what you are already thinking though. Pydan might also have an armoured battalion since one per heavy infantry brigade is standard, but I'm unsure where to use it. It could be used as infantry support to take the treeline, attached to Baumann, with the main force north of the Federal base, or used to complete the encirclement of the base from the north as Baumann does it from the south.
4. It might be advantageous to take the treeline northwest of Nicopol in case forces from Sinope decide to take the road to Nicopol.
Also, Federal artillery is going to be a pain in the ass and they may also have AT guns to defend them (arty might also go direct fire mode too). Not sure if the Federals planted minefields anywhere.
I do like the plan but I do have some suggestions I'd like you to consider. For directions, I am using the reference point of the top of the map being north, since I'm kind of confused which way is which and I'm shit in making maps.
1. I think the Seaguard should take the ridge, the woods, and the hill in between the defensive lines in order to flank them and keep the defenders split into two. There are probably Federals defending them, but I think the Seaguard have the numbers to take them. If you feel they are not up to the task, perhaps attaching one of Rudolf's battalions to them might stiffen them up a little. The Seaguard plus the attachment might actually end up encircling the defense line at the beach and contribute to the encirclement of the double defense line. Perhaps, it may not even be necessary to encircle the defense line in the beach.
2. I also think that the woods east of the double defensive line should be taken as it also flanks their position (double flank!). It is also probably defended though and to deal with that, Rudolf should use the rest of his brigade to support Vorbeck's force in taking it before continuing on their assigned positions. I am confident that Mueller can reach the rear of the double line position in reasonable time and I am thinking that the rest of Rudolf's brigades will be positioned to cover Vorbeck's force from possible attacks from Sinope's direction. I really want to deal with the Federal forces near Herea quickly.
3. Pydan's assault on the treeline west of the Federation base should be supported by Baumann's armour acting in an infantry support role. That may be what you are already thinking though. Pydan might also have an armoured battalion since one per heavy infantry brigade is standard, but I'm unsure where to use it. It could be used as infantry support to take the treeline, attached to Baumann, with the main force north of the Federal base, or used to complete the encirclement of the base from the north as Baumann does it from the south.
4. It might be advantageous to take the treeline northwest of Nicopol in case forces from Sinope decide to take the road to Nicopol.
Also, Federal artillery is going to be a pain in the ass and they may also have AT guns to defend them (arty might also go direct fire mode too). Not sure if the Federals planted minefields anywhere.
[x] Plan: Double Pincer
I do believe @Hallesworth49 's suggestions are on point.
We need to make use of the terrain features to pressure the enemy.
Sure they will likely be deployed in the woods but we still need to contest their control of those places because they are important to the overall tactical make-up of the battle.
This battle should be interesting as it will allow us to gauge our fellow Brigade commanders under pressure and their formations.
Mistakes and set backs will occur, but what is important is how they respond to those situations.
This set of Federation forces is likely similar to what we encountered previously: A mix of militia and 2nd tier formations.
We hold the advantage in numbers (for the moment) and troop quality so I don't expect any major reverses, but they can cost us time.
Also anyone notice that we triggered some plucky young protagonists who may come back to haunt us at some point?
My sense of dramatic pattern recognition is tingling.
I do believe @Hallesworth49 's suggestions are on point.
We need to make use of the terrain features to pressure the enemy.
Sure they will likely be deployed in the woods but we still need to contest their control of those places because they are important to the overall tactical make-up of the battle.
This battle should be interesting as it will allow us to gauge our fellow Brigade commanders under pressure and their formations.
Mistakes and set backs will occur, but what is important is how they respond to those situations.
This set of Federation forces is likely similar to what we encountered previously: A mix of militia and 2nd tier formations.
We hold the advantage in numbers (for the moment) and troop quality so I don't expect any major reverses, but they can cost us time.
Also anyone notice that we triggered some plucky young protagonists who may come back to haunt us at some point?
My sense of dramatic pattern recognition is tingling.
- Location
- Central Europe
Short answer: I feel like it's too late now (as in too many people voted for the plan) for me to change it. But, feel free to create a '2.0 version' with all your changes added.
Longer answer:
1)a) You are right, I don't think the Seaguard is up to such a task. In the last update we got a clear warning that their leadership is garbage and that they appear to be much weaker than they are on paper.
b) The center force is already the weakest of our formations. I don't feel comfortable weakening it even further from the get go. Once more information about the enemy's plans / positioning becomes available. The current plan should allow Rudolf to support (or be supported by) the wings.
2,3&4)
In general I didn't feel like detailing every tactical decision our forces should take. I'm new to this quest. But, it was my impression that plans in the past didn't deal with that level of detail.
From a military perspective (as a person who has no real experience in such matters) I support trusting our subordinates to make their own decisions. They are going to be away from us, spread apart over tens(?) of miles.
Writing about specification/delegation has got me thinking: @Emdeman we really need a scale for this map.
In one of the first updates of this arc. It said that a hill was 1/2 a mile from the beach and that the ridges were a few miles from there.
If I go with the hill on that map for scale, then the ridge are only ~1 mile inland, Nilden was ~ 5miles and the old Federation base was ~ 10miles from our landing site. Thus the next base would be ~20 miles away from our current position.
But, if I go with the ridges on that map for scale, and assume that 'a half + a few' means ~5miles inland, then Nilden was ~ 15-20 miles and the old Federation base was ~ 30miles from our landing site. Then the next base would probably be over 60 miles away from our current position.
I worry then, that overextension of our forces could be the greatest weakness of my plan.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Wasn't it being dropped on a beach by ship? And we raided an enemy base for some stuff.
And I'm not entirely sure planes haven't been Invented yet, but they are well pre-ww1 level stuff if they have. (Some of the characters building one was a plot point in the first game, and it was too well developed to be the first one ever, though no where near 'these are useful enough to produce in bulk' levels yet.)
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
We're doomed.My sense of dramatic pattern recognition is tingling.
They are going to sneak some transport ships stuffed to the gills with equipment and supplies to us through the Federation patrols.
3.23
Emdeman
The Atlantic Federation
- Location
- Australia
[X] Double Pincer
A broad, multifaceted plan is adopted to account for numerous variables. It appears to be a good course of action.
Most of your force move to flank the defence line through the central plains. Meanwhile, the Odessa Seaguard advances steadily from the front.
The naval infantry push into the forward positions of the Federation defence line. They are supported by a few of your own remaining artillery pieces and some loaned mortar squads. There are some initial successes as the Seaguard overrun the initial redoubts.
Then plan encounters difficulties despite being in the early stages. The rumbles of artillery sound the beginning of things going wrong. They are not your own guns. Up on the hill looking over the line, the Federation positions turn out to be holding artillery. They begin to rain down fire on the advance.
How did your scouts miss the presence of enemy artillery on the high ground?
Right, you didn't give them enough time to do their job before acting. Oh well, a little warning would have been nice.
You also should have remembered in the previous battle you failed to capture the Federal artillery. Annoying that you encountered them again so soon.
Better troops could have overcome this difficulty. Taken some losses in the process no doubt, but that is not what you had on hand. The push falters under the extra enemy firepower. Nevertheless the Seaguard still try to carry out the plan. Meanwhile your own artillery and mortars desperately try to support them and provide some cover. Then the forward naval infantry elements encounter the assault guns lurking behind the second Federation defensive line.
The presence of the 80mm guns must have been the cause of the abnormal confidence in the enemy position. They were probably obtained from the nearby supply depot. Their accuracy turns out to be a real pain, despite not having many anti-personnel shells.
The Seaguard's advance grinds to a halt despite outnumbering their foe nearly two to one. After a half hour of sustained pounding the Naval Infantry fall back completely, giving up all of their initial gains and some more.
You are lucky the Federation force doesn't take advantage of this disorderly rout. There was a serious risk of wreaking the entire formation here. It later turns out their mobile elements were elsewhere. Thank goodness you didn't lose any tanks here, though they might have helped save the situation.
The only good news from this front is that the advance up the beach went well. The defensive positions were weak and barely formed, and the sustained attack on the front distracted the rest of the enemy force. Some silver lining from that debacle at least.
Commandant Clink keeps urgently calling for help and more reinforcements. All the while his forces retreat, far beyond the effective range of the enemy artillery.
However, you find yourself unable to assist. It turns out the Federation had a surprise waiting for you here as well.
As your forces roll through the plains your armour sights enemy tanks in the distance. It seems the Federation mobile forces anticipated your move, or they were attempting a flanking manoeuvre of their own and ran into you.
A force of approximately three companies of armour meet your advance head on. Closer inspection reveals a mix of Model K light tanks and Model C medium tanks.
Not top of the line Federation hardware but respectable enough for their low standards.
The armoured battle ensues in earnest. The Federation force is rested and well supplied from the nearby paramilitary cantonment. They fight well, there is no doubt. But numbers and quality tell in the end. They are massively outnumbered, you still have Vorbeck and Pydan's forces with you and the enemy has no answer to your heavy tanks.
After a several hour long engagement the Federation scatters, taking heavy losses.
Despite being defeated, they have thrown the whole plan out of whack. Vorbeck and Pydan's contingents did not proceed to their own objectives until much later. This delay prevented the latter stages of the plan, especially Vorbeck's, from coming to fruition.
Baumann somehow got delayed by a small creek near the hill that appeared out of nowhere and didn't show on maps. He then tried to move north to assist you but was halfway across before the battle ended, much to his disappointment.
Pydan's forces move quickly and take the supply depot near Nicopol and reach the outskirts of the town. Other elements of his force seize the location where Hall told you to wait. Afterwards he reports that the majority of the Federation force has left their southern base and is barreling north towards him. Baumann should be coming up their rear but it could get dicey.
The current situation is rather mixed. You have made many gains but have suffered some setbacks.
You dare not move north of the road just yet, in case you spur the Federation force in Sinope to action. They have been content to remain passive for now, leaving their outlying elements unsupported.
You also gain a few more reports from scouting parties. It seems the local authorities have activated a lot of reservists and militia in the hopes of beefing up their numbers.
Enemy force estimates in Sinope
1500 – 2000 Federation Regulars
1200 – 2000 Reservists
800 – 1400 Militia
Total: 3500 – 5400
The situation is still in a state of flux. You need to decide what to do with your force.
You can support Vorbeck and fully seal off the Federation defensive position around Herea. This would give you an almost certain opening to destroy that force and capture their artillery. Otherwise there is a chance that the enemy contingent could escape from Vorbeck's jaws and run back to Sinope.
You can support Pydan instead and act as an anvil that blocks the Federation attack. They are no doubt hoping to reinforce Sinope by smashing though to Nicopol. There would have to be some waiting until Baumann strikes from behind and ends that battle. Without your presence, there is a possibility the enemy force could break through. Especially if Baumann is delayed again.
You are stuck in an unenviable position.
[] Move east to block the Federation attack from breaking through to Nicopol.
[] Move west to encircle the Federation defensive line.
[] Write-in
A broad, multifaceted plan is adopted to account for numerous variables. It appears to be a good course of action.
Most of your force move to flank the defence line through the central plains. Meanwhile, the Odessa Seaguard advances steadily from the front.
The naval infantry push into the forward positions of the Federation defence line. They are supported by a few of your own remaining artillery pieces and some loaned mortar squads. There are some initial successes as the Seaguard overrun the initial redoubts.
Then plan encounters difficulties despite being in the early stages. The rumbles of artillery sound the beginning of things going wrong. They are not your own guns. Up on the hill looking over the line, the Federation positions turn out to be holding artillery. They begin to rain down fire on the advance.
How did your scouts miss the presence of enemy artillery on the high ground?
Right, you didn't give them enough time to do their job before acting. Oh well, a little warning would have been nice.
You also should have remembered in the previous battle you failed to capture the Federal artillery. Annoying that you encountered them again so soon.
Better troops could have overcome this difficulty. Taken some losses in the process no doubt, but that is not what you had on hand. The push falters under the extra enemy firepower. Nevertheless the Seaguard still try to carry out the plan. Meanwhile your own artillery and mortars desperately try to support them and provide some cover. Then the forward naval infantry elements encounter the assault guns lurking behind the second Federation defensive line.
The presence of the 80mm guns must have been the cause of the abnormal confidence in the enemy position. They were probably obtained from the nearby supply depot. Their accuracy turns out to be a real pain, despite not having many anti-personnel shells.
The Seaguard's advance grinds to a halt despite outnumbering their foe nearly two to one. After a half hour of sustained pounding the Naval Infantry fall back completely, giving up all of their initial gains and some more.
You are lucky the Federation force doesn't take advantage of this disorderly rout. There was a serious risk of wreaking the entire formation here. It later turns out their mobile elements were elsewhere. Thank goodness you didn't lose any tanks here, though they might have helped save the situation.
The only good news from this front is that the advance up the beach went well. The defensive positions were weak and barely formed, and the sustained attack on the front distracted the rest of the enemy force. Some silver lining from that debacle at least.
Commandant Clink keeps urgently calling for help and more reinforcements. All the while his forces retreat, far beyond the effective range of the enemy artillery.
***
However, you find yourself unable to assist. It turns out the Federation had a surprise waiting for you here as well.
As your forces roll through the plains your armour sights enemy tanks in the distance. It seems the Federation mobile forces anticipated your move, or they were attempting a flanking manoeuvre of their own and ran into you.
A force of approximately three companies of armour meet your advance head on. Closer inspection reveals a mix of Model K light tanks and Model C medium tanks.
Not top of the line Federation hardware but respectable enough for their low standards.
The armoured battle ensues in earnest. The Federation force is rested and well supplied from the nearby paramilitary cantonment. They fight well, there is no doubt. But numbers and quality tell in the end. They are massively outnumbered, you still have Vorbeck and Pydan's forces with you and the enemy has no answer to your heavy tanks.
After a several hour long engagement the Federation scatters, taking heavy losses.
Despite being defeated, they have thrown the whole plan out of whack. Vorbeck and Pydan's contingents did not proceed to their own objectives until much later. This delay prevented the latter stages of the plan, especially Vorbeck's, from coming to fruition.
Baumann somehow got delayed by a small creek near the hill that appeared out of nowhere and didn't show on maps. He then tried to move north to assist you but was halfway across before the battle ended, much to his disappointment.
Pydan's forces move quickly and take the supply depot near Nicopol and reach the outskirts of the town. Other elements of his force seize the location where Hall told you to wait. Afterwards he reports that the majority of the Federation force has left their southern base and is barreling north towards him. Baumann should be coming up their rear but it could get dicey.
***
The current situation is rather mixed. You have made many gains but have suffered some setbacks.
You dare not move north of the road just yet, in case you spur the Federation force in Sinope to action. They have been content to remain passive for now, leaving their outlying elements unsupported.
You also gain a few more reports from scouting parties. It seems the local authorities have activated a lot of reservists and militia in the hopes of beefing up their numbers.
Enemy force estimates in Sinope
1500 – 2000 Federation Regulars
1200 – 2000 Reservists
800 – 1400 Militia
Total: 3500 – 5400
***
The situation is still in a state of flux. You need to decide what to do with your force.
You can support Vorbeck and fully seal off the Federation defensive position around Herea. This would give you an almost certain opening to destroy that force and capture their artillery. Otherwise there is a chance that the enemy contingent could escape from Vorbeck's jaws and run back to Sinope.
You can support Pydan instead and act as an anvil that blocks the Federation attack. They are no doubt hoping to reinforce Sinope by smashing though to Nicopol. There would have to be some waiting until Baumann strikes from behind and ends that battle. Without your presence, there is a possibility the enemy force could break through. Especially if Baumann is delayed again.
You are stuck in an unenviable position.
[] Move east to block the Federation attack from breaking through to Nicopol.
[] Move west to encircle the Federation defensive line.
[] Write-in
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- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He
At least the ambushed guns damaged our least useful elements, not veterans or tanks.
The left (eastern?) flank is looking dangerously unsupported with the gap from the retreat of the Seaguard, we probably should patch it up with our troops.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
The left (eastern?) flank is looking dangerously unsupported with the gap from the retreat of the Seaguard, we probably should patch it up with our troops.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
- Location
- va
[X] Move west to block the Federation attack from breaking through to Nicopol.
- Location
- United States
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
- Location
- .
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
Always nice to see the enemy getting a vote as well.
I'm inclined to deprive the local Federation forces of their Assault guns.
I believe that Pydan is made of sterner stuff than Clink and he is being attacked by a force roughly his size.
His Brigade should be able to delay the Federation force long enough for Baumann to hit it in the rear.
As for Clink and his men. We need to keep their low quality in mind for all future engagements.
They seem fit to be rear echelon and garrison forces, positions that our more capable troops should not be wasted on.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
I'm inclined to deprive the local Federation forces of their Assault guns.
I believe that Pydan is made of sterner stuff than Clink and he is being attacked by a force roughly his size.
His Brigade should be able to delay the Federation force long enough for Baumann to hit it in the rear.
As for Clink and his men. We need to keep their low quality in mind for all future engagements.
They seem fit to be rear echelon and garrison forces, positions that our more capable troops should not be wasted on.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Pydan and Baumann are both demonstrated to be competent, and it's unlikely the Federation force there outnumbers both brigades. Pydan can hold and Baumann can be trusted to fill his end of the plan. The Seaguard are... not quite useless, though finding a reason to get Clink removed from command and replaced with someone competent would be helpful. But it's pretty clear expecting them to do more than demonstrate against the entrenchments was a problem and it's probably for the best to intervene there.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
Exterminatus
Tsukumogami User
- Location
- Southern California
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
[X] Move east to encircle the Federation defensive line.
Kinda curious what the portion of the Seaguard that broke through the beaches is going to do. Seems they aren't being fired upon from the ridgeline yet.
@Emdeman
Wait, do we still have the artillery detachment from the start of the quest? Or are they attached to Pydan or the Seaguard? I found no reference that we had them for the naval invasion.
Kinda curious what the portion of the Seaguard that broke through the beaches is going to do. Seems they aren't being fired upon from the ridgeline yet.
@Emdeman
Wait, do we still have the artillery detachment from the start of the quest? Or are they attached to Pydan or the Seaguard? I found no reference that we had them for the naval invasion.