Palace of Greed, El Dorado (Library of Ruina)

[SleepMode]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.

[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

 

[LinkOnScepter]

Exactly what I wanted! Repression Lily is scary! Fuck yeah!

As for the Spare or Kill vote....I'm gonna leave it and not vote. Both have the same amount of thematic relevance. Plus it's not interesting to me.

What I will vote for is Split and EXP Expense.

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.

[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

Changed my idea cause Alectai makes some good points. Keeping my plan though.

[X] Plan: Getting Tougher
-[X] 850 XP to Fortitude

Let's hit Rank 3 Baby. Get even stronger.

Mercy can only be afforded by the strong.

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Well...we won. So, we're strong. So, we can afford it. Just saying that the logic is flawed in individual instances.

That's... a rough chapter to get through. Especially when approaching the end. Good job on making the opposition feel human!

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Ha! Opposition. Human. That's a good one.

 

[Kymecho]

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.

[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.
We raised Empathy last time. Though it might not be mercy, I think this is narratively consistent.

[X] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[X] 470 XP to Temperance
-[X] 230 XP to Endurance
-[X] 200 XP to Vision

Edit: Changed the money split because Kai deserves it.

 

[Brainwasher]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.

[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

Money-wise, I think it's more important to think about what it says about Lily than whether she "needs" it. Unless we avoid jobs for the upcoming weeks or write-in for Kai to receive a larger than 60% cut, necessity isn't the question. My reasoning for the forty-sixty is the same as Lily's thoughts about it, although I think the fifty-fifty one is fine too.

As for experience spending, I'm just going to try and pump that into fortitude with Link's plan. We've got the experience, and it'll truly make her a force to reckon with for her grade.

[X] Plan: Getting Tougher

Gonna put forward another plan I came up with even though I prefer the combat plan. It spends our XP rather nicely, finally finishes Endurance, and gets a Justice skill I find really cool leveled up along with the Temperance stat.

[] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[] 470 XP to Temperance
-[] 230 XP to Endurance
-[] 200 XP to Vision

 

[Thor's Twin]

[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

[X] Plan: Getting Tougher
-[X] 850 XP to Fortitude

 

[Dream Logic]

Well...we won. So, we're strong. So, we can afford it.

Click to shrink...

A reminder, half cocked kindness causes a hell of a lot of problems in LC and LOR.

If you bring someone to the edge of ruin and let them leave alive it will ruin you in turn.

Did for Ayin with Garion, did with Roland for Jae-Hon, and mark my words when The Head falls it'll because they didn't tie off a loose end.

 

[ChaoticCPU]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.

[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

[X] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[X] 470 XP to Temperance
-[X] 230 XP to Endurance
-[X] 200 XP to Vision

 

[SmolPasta]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.

Don't really want to do it in front of the girl, but i think it's something we ought to do.
Also, i don't believe he will distort. Remember you need to have a dream or something else you follow with great conviction to start the process, and he doesn't seems like that to me.

 

[LinkOnScepter]

A reminder, half cocked kindness causes a hell of a lot of problems in LC and LOR.

If you bring someone to the edge of ruin and let them leave alive it will ruin you in turn.

Did for Ayin with Garion, did with Roland for Jae-Hon, and mark my words when The Head falls it'll because they didn't tie off a loose end.

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Those...actually aren't good examples.

If Ayin hadn't let Garion live, we wouldn't of gotten Binah. If we never got Binah, no one would've been there to help Roland work through the last Relazation he needed before the end. Which means we likely wouldn't even made it to the ending, cause no one would've given Roland the Therapy he needed to be able to forgive Angela. Nor would anyone have been there to save his and Gebura's asses at the end, meaning him and Gebura would've died there.

Roland didn't let Jae-Hon live on purpose. He did try to put the man down for good. It just so happens he failed cause people in the city run the gamut from "Die to a stab wound" to "Need to be fucking dismembered" to put down.

And sure, the Head is going to pay for letting us go...but they did not do that out of kindness. They did it cause they could. If anything, it was to show the rest of the City what will happen to you if you ever reach a point where you can actually threaten the Head. That being, they'll just fucking kick you out. The Library is a special case cause it's completely self-sufficient and can handle creating its own resources to survive in the Outskirts. Not everyone else can.

As far as the rest of the City is concerned, the Library has been handed a Death Sentence worse than anything the Head can come up. After all, everyone knows the Outskirts are awful places to be and don't have any of the resources the City has.

And who knows, this might've actually been they're plan all along. These are the same people able to keep the Index, people who follow the literal Precognitive Will Of The City, in check and who would be able to get a handle on things like White Night if they ever got out. There's no way they didn't think this through.

Edit: Also, just to clarify, I may constantly be against upping our Empathy, but that's not cause I don't think it's important nor that I don't think we shouldn't do it. I just think we should wait on it. Specifically, until we get a good amount of points into Fortitude and Justice.

Fortitude gives us the outer strength and power to back up our words, thus allowing us to be empathetic without dying.

Justice will give us inner strength and power to follow through on our words, which is lead to others following us and listening to our words, as well as help us see the bigger picture.

Once we have those at a good level, which I think getting Fortitude to Rank 3 would be a good stopping point for now, then I think we can start upping our Temperance.

 

[Alectai]

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.
[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

We're still on target with this, everything else we make this month is pure investment since we've now got enough to pay our obligations with 300K left in the bank , and Kai's work made the Perfect Run we just pulled achievable, she deserves the extra cred.

As for the "Kill/Spare" dilemma... Well, yeah, sparing him means he comes back for revenge, but this is a setting that's very much all about "As much as it sucks, reducing harm is the first step towards making headway", and I don't want Lily to be a character who murders in cold blood.

Hot blood? Yeah, sure, that's the City--but having a broken, weeping mess at her mercy and coldly executing them? That's not the Proper Way.

[X] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[X] 470 XP to Temperance
-[X] 230 XP to Endurance
-[X] 200 XP to Vision

We just saw here how important Empathy and Vision are when you're going full Repression, and since Repression is one of the few ways outside of E.G.O. to do harm to Distortions and Abnormalities, making sure our arsenal is solid seems key while we're still dealing with relatively weak missions and Distortions being uncommon and relatively weak on average

And Lily does a lot of face-woman stuff for our little dynamic duo, bolstering that is a good investment.

 

[NMS]

Specifically the people who distort are

Spoiler: Small spollers

people who were particularly sensitive to the light and gathered significant amounts

Which means this one is unlikely. That tends to happen on stronger and more plot important people.

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Eh, not exactly.

Spoiler: Wonderlab

Catt distorted within days of the White Nights and Dark Days incident. So, I'm not really sure the gathering significant amounts of Light thing is hard rule

 

[Dream Logic]

Those...actually aren't good examples.

If Ayin hadn't let Garion live, we wouldn't of gotten Binah. If we never got Binah, no one would've been there to help Roland work through the last Relazation he needed before the end. Which means we likely wouldn't even made it to the ending, cause no one would've given Roland the Therapy he needed to be able to forgive Angela. Nor would anyone have been there to save his and Gebura's asses at the end, meaning him and Gebura would've died there.

Roland didn't let Jae-Hon live on purpose. He did try to put the man down for good. It just so happens he failed cause people in the city run the gamut from "Die to a stab wound" to "Need to be fucking dismembered" to put down.

And sure, the Head is going to pay for letting us go...but they did not do that out of kindness. They did it cause they could. If anything, it was to show the rest of the City what will happen to you if you ever reach a point where you can actually threaten the Head. That being, they'll just fucking kick you out. The Library is a special case cause it's completely self-sufficient and can handle creating its own resources to survive in the Outskirts. Not everyone else can.

As far as the rest of the City is concerned, the Library has been handed a Death Sentence worse than anything the Head can come up. After all, everyone knows the Outskirts are awful places to be and don't have any of the resources the City has.

And who knows, this might've actually been they're plan all along. These are the same people able to keep the Index, people who follow the literal Precognitive Will Of The City and who would be able to get a handle on things like White Night if they ever got out. There's no way they didn't think this through.

Edit: Also, just to clarify, I may constantly be against upping our Empathy, but that's not cause I don't think it's important nor that I don't think we shouldn't do it. I just think we should wait on it. Specifically, until we get a good amount of points into Fortitude and Justice.

Fortitude gives us the outer strength and power to back up our words, thus allowing us to be empathetic without dying.

Justice will give us inner strength and power to follow through on our words, which is lead to others following us and listening to our words, as well as help us see the bigger picture.

Once we have those at a good level, which I think getting Fortitude to Rank 3 would be a good stopping point for now, then I think we can start upping our Temperance.

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Binah siding against Malkuth and the rest was why Angela was able to succeed in sabotaging the seed of light. Without her Angela couldn't have held the center and created the library.

Hell, Angela herself was only spared because of Benjamin. Him treating her as a person ironically enough only made her more resentful of Ayin for not doing so.

Jae-Hon should have died but the fact he didn't was the problem. Roland ruins him but didn't double check for the corpse.

The Head for me is that it's absolute in the rules. If you fail to abide by them you die. Lob Corp surviving multiple Arbiters is an abnormality (huh) that spells badly for it. I haven't *actually* gotten past star of the city so it's just conjecture.

 

[Iffer]

[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

[X] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[X] 470 XP to Temperance
-[X] 230 XP to Endurance
-[X] 200 XP to Vision

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.

what Alectai said is right, being someone who has common decency in a world were that is heavily discouraged would be interesting

 

[Alectai]

Binah siding against Malkuth and the rest was why Angela was able to succeed in sabotaging the seed of light. Without her Angela couldn't have held the center and created the library.

Hell, Angela herself was only spared because of Benjamin. Him treating her as a person ironically enough only made her more resentful of Ayin for not doing so.

Jae-Hon should have died but the fact he didn't was the problem. Roland ruins him but didn't double check for the corpse.

The Head for me is that it's absolute in the rules. If you fail to abide by them you die. Lob Corp surviving multiple Arbiters is an abnormality (huh) that spells badly for it. I haven't *actually* gotten past star of the city so it's just conjecture.

Click to shrink...

The point being is that the whole "These people left loose ends" are looking at the narrative the Head wants to be dominant, where everyone murders and hates each other forever, where the suffering never ends because someone always wrongs someone else under the rules. Notably, they were not threatened by Carmen's plan--they straight up say that it was a little unsightly but it would have blended in with the City eventually anyway.

The one thing that moves them to act, are people breaking outside of the cycle. By people showing common decency instead of cold professionalism or hot blooded murder.

And TBH, from a storytelling perspective, I regret the reasoning for not taking that sword back then either. I should have used a reasoning that "I don't want Lily to be in the habit of taking trophies" as opposed to some fear of consequences.

But what it boils down to is "I don't want Lily to murder in cold blood, because that shit's not right."

And from what we saw here? The kid's the leader, but it's his sister who was the sicko who took pleasure in the murder. He was just a lost kid who had no idea what to do and trusted his big sister.

 

[LinkOnScepter]

Binah siding against Malkuth and the rest was why Angela was able to succeed in sabotaging the seed of light. Without her Angela couldn't have held the center and created the library.

Hell, Angela herself was only spared because of Benjamin. Him treating her as a person ironically enough only made her more resentful of Ayin for not doing so.

Jae-Hon should have died but the fact he didn't was the problem. Roland ruins him but didn't double check for the corpse.

The Head for me is that it's absolute in the rules. If you fail to abide by them you die. Lob Corp surviving multiple Arbiters is an abnormality (huh) that spells badly for it. I haven't *actually* gotten past star of the city so it's just conjecture.

Click to shrink...

A-

The point being is that the whole "These people left loose ends" are looking at the narrative the Head wants to be dominant, where everyone murders and hates each other forever, where the suffering never ends because someone always wrongs someone else under the rules. Notably, they were not threatened by Carmen's plan--they straight up say that it was a little unsightly but it would have blended in with the City eventually anyway.

The one thing that moves them to act, are people breaking outside of the cycle. By people showing common decency instead of cold professionalism or hot blooded murder.

And TBH, from a storytelling perspective, I regret the reasoning for not taking that sword back then either.

But what it boils down to is "I don't want Lily to murder in cold blood, because that shit's not right."

And from what we saw here? The kid's the leader, but it's his sister who was the sicko who took pleasure in the murder. He was just a lost kid who had no idea what to do and trusted his big sister.

Click to shrink...

NVM. Alectai Ninja'd me.

 

[Mave]

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.
[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

 

[Shinji117]

I wonder if this is this, that is that is a common City phrase, we just got 'lucky' and invented it in parallel or what. In any case, it's (at least how it's used here, and by a certain other person) a bad philosophy that encourages the City to keep being the City, where we don't have to care about anyone else as long as we have 'ours'.

[X] "Spare" Him. You'll just leave him there, leave whatever comes next come. This is not mercy, no matter how Mia the Schoolgirl sees it. This is hell. You'd know. He got nowhere to go. But whatever. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. If he ever snaps out of it, you are sure that in no way, will this bite you back in the ass.
[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

[X] Plan: Well Rounded Lily
-[X] 470 XP to Temperance
-[X] 230 XP to Endurance
-[X] 200 XP to Vision

 

[SoothingCoffee]

Notably, they were not threatened by Carmen's plan--they straight up say that it was a little unsightly but it would have blended in with the City eventually anyway.

Click to shrink...

I'll argue this point a little. There is a possibility that the Head just underestimated/doesn't straight up know how Carmen's Plan -- or rather, Ayin's Rendition of Carmen's Plan would actually pan out (The Seed of Light). We don't really know, other than what we've been told.

Which brings up Garion/Binah, because that's the reason why LobCo got to become L Wing in the first place. Ayin learned the secrets of the Head, and managed to go under the Head's eyes for a long while (until literally a Library sprouted from the corpse of LobCo).

Edit: 'Course, this is just a theory. A game theory. Well. My game theory.

 

[Dream Logic]

The point being is that the whole "These people left loose ends" are looking at the narrative the Head wants to be dominant, where everyone murders and hates each other forever, where the suffering never ends because someone always wrongs someone else under the rules. Notably, they were not threatened by Carmen's plan--they straight up say that it was a little unsightly but it would have blended in with the City eventually anyway.

The one thing that moves them to act, are people breaking outside of the cycle. By people showing common decency instead of cold professionalism or hot blooded murder.

And TBH, from a storytelling perspective, I regret the reasoning for not taking that sword back then either.

But what it boils down to is "I don't want Lily to murder in cold blood, because that shit's not right."

And from what we saw here? The kid's the leader, but it's his sister who was the sicko who took pleasure in the murder. He was just a lost kid who had no idea what to do and trusted his big sister.

Click to shrink...

Honest question, am I being an ass? I kind of feel like I might be one right now. Not helped with me being immediately proven wrong on a few of my points (how distortion works for one). I don't think I've been in bad faith but I've probably warped it a bit too much without meaning too?

Rereading I completely missed how much of it really was the sister pushing him.

Eugh. I'm still not sure mercy is good here. Redemption can be done but it takes a hell of a lot. We're more likely to push him into spiraling.

Lily said how pride was for the strong but mercy might be similar. Ironically enough even for those who can recieve it.

EDIT: As a sidenote I can totally believe The Head could *handle* ending B where the abnormalities escape but I am sure they're underestimating or understating how threatening Carmen's plans were. Fundamentally the Light represents both a practical shift in power Dynamics but also in how people seem to think and feel. Exposure seems to be a big jump starter on empathy and caring about others.

 

[LinkOnScepter]

Honest question, am I being an ass? I kind of feel like I might be one right now. Not helped with me being immediately proven wrong on a few of my points (how distortion works for one). I don't think I've been in bad faith but I've probably warped it a bit too much without meaning too?

Rereading I completely missed how much of it really was the sister pushing him.

Eugh. I'm still not sure mercy is good here. Redemption can be done but it takes a hell of a lot. We're more likely to push him into spiraling.

Lily said how pride was for the strong but mercy might be similar. Ironically enough even for those who can recieve it.

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Nah. Right now this is just an honest discussion.

You make a lot of good points still.

 

[Walker]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.
[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

 

[Dream Logic]

Nah. Right now this is just an honest discussion.

You make a lot of good points still.

Click to shrink...

Thanks. Just don't want to cross the line accidentally.

There just doesn't seem to be a good way to handle this one. Killing is killing, but mercy doesn't imply forgiveness or even survival.

Oddly enough I think I'd be more comfortable sparing him with the library around. He probably gets booked or distorts after escaping.

Now though? Too open ended and we're both too weak for me nail a likely narrative path.

 

[NotteBoy97]

[X] Forty-Sixty. Loathe as you are to cut your own reward, Kai deserves it, you think. Yeah. You'll admit it – the mission hinged on her, and she succeeded, and well… it's also to make up for last time. Reward: 740,000 Ahn.

Don't really care about sparing the kid or not or the XP plan just want to make sure Kai gets what she deserves

 

[Bladesguy]

[X] Just Kill Him. There's no real satisfaction to this. No thrill in the battles. You came into the fighting expecting something simple, and straightforward, but instead you got… this. There's a difference, you're realizing, between killing like this, and killing with something on the line. Too… cold-blooded to your taste. Whatever, just end him. It's practically a mercy.

As Lilly said, leaving him alive isn't much of a mercy either. It's just how things go in the city.

[X] Fifty-Fifty. All equal, and fair-like. You like it. Simple, and clean. You both did your own fair share of the job. You think. Reward: 925,000 Ahn. Fair and Square.

I think Kai's starting to realize that Lilly ending her fights as a bloody mess is going to be a regular thing.

[X] Plan: Getting Tougher
-[X] 850 XP to Fortitude

As for our XP, I agree with LinkOnScepter. Empathy without the strength to back it up will only end in tragedy.
Besides, I want to lean more into becoming hilariously difficult to kill. Right now we can handle walking off with dozens of knives sticking out of us, next time it could be dozens of swords!

 

[SkyCrack]

what Alectai said is right, being someone who has common decency in a world were that is heavily discouraged would be interesting

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Now, Usually I'd agree with that and spare, and I really do, but I really feel that we might regret this decision, and if he does show back up one day for vengeance we might heavily regret it. If it was any other setting other then Ruina I would have gone for it, but I still feel like its a terrible idea. I have a feeling he isnt going to be grateful you spared him and will have totally learnt his lesson, if he starts another syndicate out of revenge, commits more atrocities just to get at you, it will be much worse.