Only One Can Win The Eurasian War! Axis IC Thread
- Thread starter Gideon020
- Start date
- IC
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We should replace Goebbels with Sudkruez then.I think we're assigning you all the PR roles from now on
- Location
- Moon-Station
1932
Draka Occupied Bulgaria
за България was written on the wall of the mansion which lay silent while the soldier-citizens filed out. It was, as so often, written in blood, no sign of the corpse. All of those had been hanged outside in a neat line, 14 people altogether. The serfs were gone. To make matters even worse, the Commander of the Draka mused, it had happened silently. No screams, no shots fired. 14 Citizens dead, 20 serfs disappeared and no one had seen a thing.
He closed his eyes for a moment in order to calm himself. More serfs had to die to make an example for the rest. This was getting too far. "Find what is around. Gather all weapons or evidence." He harshly told the men and women around him and moved to the large hall. It was clean.
No plundering. No blood.
Who exactly were those people? They killed Citizens. Serfs and captives were going missing by the hundreds every day. At some points, Мила Родино, the bulgarian hymn had been played from all loudspeakers in the city. The Draka were not unknown to fighting against an evasive foe. The Draka excelled at it. But this was different. There was no enemy to grasp. Every time they thought they had a clue, the transports were attacked. More Citizens died. Janissary disappeared by the dozen when sent on patrol.
He felt a lack of sleep taking him. The nights had become sleepless for Draka citizens, albeit no one admitted it. No fear could be shown. But he saw the signs even in his own soldiers. This needed to change. Mayhaps he would burn the city. Drastic measures had to be taken.
"Commander." He snapped to attention and followed the voice to the door, ajar, leading to the cellar. He gave a nod and when one of his soldiers threw the door open, he marched in first. No enemy. A spark of light. What?
"Light!" He demanded and was heeded immediatly. Then the Soldiers which had opened the door for him saw the open crates with ammunition. And the plastique....
The Draka-homestead exploded. The Soldier-citizens investigating were all killed immediatly, except for one who had been thrown about 13 feet and landed hard enough to knock him out for a few seconds. When he woke up with a metallic taste in his mouth, he saw crowds of armed janissary around him and groped one hand into the soil beneath him. "Help me up, you idiots!" He would have them killed, he decided then and there. The one who would help him up would be an example and get his throat ripped out.
Instead, he felt feint when he was pushed upward by four pairs of arms and held in place by the dark-faced men and women. He struggled, but found himself unable to resist.
"за България" a voice told him and he struggled harder when he was cut down by half a dozen cutlasses.
The City erupted in Draka-blood.
за България.
For Bulgaria.
Even in Tyrkia, they mumbled these words when an unseen army struck.
Draka Occupied Bulgaria
за България was written on the wall of the mansion which lay silent while the soldier-citizens filed out. It was, as so often, written in blood, no sign of the corpse. All of those had been hanged outside in a neat line, 14 people altogether. The serfs were gone. To make matters even worse, the Commander of the Draka mused, it had happened silently. No screams, no shots fired. 14 Citizens dead, 20 serfs disappeared and no one had seen a thing.
He closed his eyes for a moment in order to calm himself. More serfs had to die to make an example for the rest. This was getting too far. "Find what is around. Gather all weapons or evidence." He harshly told the men and women around him and moved to the large hall. It was clean.
No plundering. No blood.
Who exactly were those people? They killed Citizens. Serfs and captives were going missing by the hundreds every day. At some points, Мила Родино, the bulgarian hymn had been played from all loudspeakers in the city. The Draka were not unknown to fighting against an evasive foe. The Draka excelled at it. But this was different. There was no enemy to grasp. Every time they thought they had a clue, the transports were attacked. More Citizens died. Janissary disappeared by the dozen when sent on patrol.
He felt a lack of sleep taking him. The nights had become sleepless for Draka citizens, albeit no one admitted it. No fear could be shown. But he saw the signs even in his own soldiers. This needed to change. Mayhaps he would burn the city. Drastic measures had to be taken.
"Commander." He snapped to attention and followed the voice to the door, ajar, leading to the cellar. He gave a nod and when one of his soldiers threw the door open, he marched in first. No enemy. A spark of light. What?
"Light!" He demanded and was heeded immediatly. Then the Soldiers which had opened the door for him saw the open crates with ammunition. And the plastique....
The Draka-homestead exploded. The Soldier-citizens investigating were all killed immediatly, except for one who had been thrown about 13 feet and landed hard enough to knock him out for a few seconds. When he woke up with a metallic taste in his mouth, he saw crowds of armed janissary around him and groped one hand into the soil beneath him. "Help me up, you idiots!" He would have them killed, he decided then and there. The one who would help him up would be an example and get his throat ripped out.
Instead, he felt feint when he was pushed upward by four pairs of arms and held in place by the dark-faced men and women. He struggled, but found himself unable to resist.
"за България" a voice told him and he struggled harder when he was cut down by half a dozen cutlasses.
The City erupted in Draka-blood.
за България.
For Bulgaria.
Even in Tyrkia, they mumbled these words when an unseen army struck.
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
ze nationalist revolution begins brothers
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm wondering if this would end up with the US declaring war on us.
- Location
- Moon-Station
its an old list. it was my original operation dogleash, which has been voted down. updated list in the conversation.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh yeah, I forgot...
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
I think everybody is ready now.
- Location
- Moon-Station
Nope. Gunman is not. He is still pondering his turn.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Cybandeath
How about having Hitler go either with you or by himself to visit the Pope or the Vatican? It could go along with his "Knight of Germany" impression, and turn that into a "Crusader of Germany against the Draka" or something.
How about having Hitler go either with you or by himself to visit the Pope or the Vatican? It could go along with his "Knight of Germany" impression, and turn that into a "Crusader of Germany against the Draka" or something.
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- Location
- Moon-Station
funny you mention it. i was tempted to do that. but i think we wait until he gets out of line before we drop the pope on him.
- Location
- Moon-Station
we dont know how he is going to misbehave or what exactly is wrong with him we can not control. once we know, we can correct. pre-emptively, we may feed his delusions.
- Location
- Moon-Station
Look, if you want me to, i am gonna cling to the chancellor like a leech over the next months until we find out what exactly makes him tick. i may need him anyway, tossing him at social problems.
Minor nitpick: They're pagans, not atheists. Besides, it sounds better if you can call them heathens or even outright satanists for worshipping false (satanic/demonic) gods (that enslave and oppresses Christians, Jews and Muslims--all believers in the same abrahamic god).
The countries that border are just the UK, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Luxemburg, Switzerland and two micronations: Andorra and Monaco.
I think we should emphasize we will not accept the former government as it has destroyed all of its' legitimacy. It first caused a massive civil war that led to a huge diaspora and civil war. Then in the time of crisis, it fled to its' masters aaaall the way across the Atlantic ocean rather than the neutral Switzerland, ally UK or one of its' few remaining colonies. This shows they are merely puppets of the American government, and we will not allow the American government or some shadowy conspiracy within the American government to set up a puppet government right on Germany's doorstep.
--
This is also a nice IC way of telling the American council to back off.
Out of the result, we also need to get a pro-German government that would want to enter a formal military and economic alliance.
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Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
already added it, and dreaming big for your nation is not exactly just a hitler thing, lots of people do it.
- Location
- Moon-Station
Sorry, its a bit late and i am tired: What do you want me to change in what way?
Just adding that bit in I guess. I want to make sure Hitler or whatever ambassador does it makes that comment to make it clear to both the IC American government and American Council we will not accept a French government that will just be the puppets of the American government. The actions of the French government and their exile to America (rather than neutral Switzerland, Belgium which isn't far from Paris, one of the French colonies or their ally the UK) just makes it a bit more obvious that's what they really are, and definitely will become if they're allowed to return, since they'd be indebted to America. Making this clear will not only send a message to them, but should hopefully turn other countries against France becoming the puppet of America.
I'm hoping the Nachvogel could be used as a design action, since that it what the Design action seems to be more about since Research is for exploring new branches of technology.
SPOILER IS OUTDATED VERSION:
SPOILER IS OUTDATED VERSION:
Social : The New Economy
VK will change the economy forever, in such an extent that it's hard if not impossible to overstate the consequences. Even so, the innovation continues at extremely rapid pace, with new opportunities popping up faster than they can be resolved. As such, implementing the changes by central directives from the government proves to be a near impossible affair.
On the other hand, not maintaining government control over the technology would be an obvious mistake. Failing to control VK and it's applications would rapidly result in Germany being outmatched economically and in the field as enemies take advantage of our research.
As such, the solution lies elsewhere. The success of the IG Farben Facility shows the way forward. Industry cooperation with government supervision. The Goal of this operation will be to set up communication channels between Germanies large industrial conglomerates, and the governement. VK itself, nor it's applications, would be deregulated, but it's products will.
Examples : VK powerstations produce a massive amount of power at extremely low cost. In the first instance, this electric power will sold at low cost to the energy distributors. They will be responsible to ensure it's distribution to the rest of the country, and the expansion of their grid that may be needed to do this to it's full potential.
In addition, like with the IG Farben deal, trusted corporations can petition for aid in case of large scale projects. If the local grid is incapable of efficiently providing power, then a local generator may be installed.
Alternative projects are the introduction of VK refineries into the metalworking industry, the introduction of VK alloyed components (no VK products sold to civilians) in industry, introduction of new processing methods, the potential introduction of computing in select industries, and more.
Research 1: Covert weaponry is one avenue sorely needed by Germ nay with the disorienting pace of changes occurring both in and outside of her borders. He"ll have his teams look at all avenues of covert weaponry, but there are four he already has in mind. Fortunately for Veidt and his team, none of his ideas are too complicated.
The first avenue of research Veidt will look at will be the more scholarly kind of research. He knows that the Italian Frogmen of WW2 were formed in 1938, based on the actions of two Italians using primitive manned torpedoes in the Great War. Should the idea have been resurrected a bit over six years early, Veidt will simply try to get info from Italian military dignitaries. Veidt will mostly point to the actions of the Regina Marina in the Great War rather than making it seem like Italy is being spied on, and he"ll make sure to confirm this really happened in their Great War. If this method fails from the timelines being too divergent or he's rebuffed, he"ll simply have to start from scratch.
Scuba gear including rebreathers (which fortunately, already exist), will be developed alongside manned torpedoes so Germany will have his own frogman commandos--or in German, Froschmann.
The second avenue of research complements the first: underwater firearms, particularly an underwater assault rifle inspired by the OTL APS and ASM-DT amphibious rifle. It will use a gas actuated action so it shall work both underwater and on land. It will also use a perforated gas pipe and special shield to help break up any gas bubbles. This should make it easier to fire with better visibility and allow for stealthier shooting. To give our soldiers a weapon that will work on both water and land, it shall be designed in mind as a hybrid weapon: it will have two feed slots allowing it to take in two different magazines at the same time of different cartridges: one will be the typical 7.92x33mm, another will fire a 7.92x33mm steel bolt instead of a conventional bullet. The magazine release will be able to shift forward for when the operator wants to use the standard G32 magazine, and the rifle should automatically adjust its' gas system for when firing underwater. The barrel will be rifled with shallow grooves run along its' length, which should expel gases ahead of the bullet and blow out any water of the barrel. Finally, it will use a folding stock and be made compatible with existing firearm accessories (including rails).
The third avenue of research will be a silent pistol inspired by the OTL!PSS silent pistol, which is fortunately something relatively low-tech and easy enough to reproduce. It shall be used for assassination developed in a variety of calibers, being based off the cartridge of the Russian (7.62), Draka (whatever the current Draka caliber is) and German rifles (7.92). The pistol will be made as a fairly typical double-action, recoil-operated handgun for use by special forces, secret police and assassins. The cartridges will contain an internal piston and propelling charge, with the stem of the piston against the bullet. On firing, the gas should propel the piston, which should in turn propel the bullet. A (purely conventional version) at least may not have a lot of range or power to be used for anything more than close combat/short-range assassinations, but that will be the niche it shall be used for.
Not only will they hardly leave any noise, but variants using 7.62, (again whatever caliber Draka use--should be 7.5 if they're using the T-4 and T-5?) and 7.92 calibers. With forensics being what it is today (and likely for the next few decades at least), it should also fool investigators into thinking any targets were sniped by a russian, draka or german rifle.
The fourth is by far the most low-tech, and more useful for Werwolf operatives and whoever they train: creating mosqutio and toe-popper style mines.
Research 2: With the advent of Digital Computing (thank God for that, because there was no way he could tolerate living without them and then having to settle for the abominations the Drakaverse originally created), it is time for the German industrial machine to shift to computer numerical machining, whether mere numerical machining had been invented early in this timeline or not. CNC Machining is a process wherein various machining tools, such as lasers, mills, lathes and drills, have extra motors and servos installed, and are guided via computer with commands and coordinates programmed into them, following a simple programming language such as G-code. This automates the machining process, making it faster, more efficient and more precise than operating the tools manually. It also reduces the workload of the operator since the machine pretty much runs on its own after it is set up. This will surely aid our manufacturing industry.
Design: You will take what the man who envisioned the nachvogel and give him a team to work with in designing it, of both aircraft engineers/designers and scientists. Early in the process, Veidt will make sure to fish out the more ambitious and wondrous aims of his vision and work it into something more aerodynamic and practical so it won't be mere wunderwaffen.
When he sees a sketch of the nachvogel, Veidt will say he's impressed by the design but point out he may be missing the boring details. Going by its' looks, it would have severe compression issues, the controls would likely lock up at high speed. Any high-G maneuvers would rip it apart, forcing it to fight enemy fighters and bombers through boom and zoom maneuvers. It looks like it may be good for stealth against radar, but the large gaps in it wouldn't be helping it. Veidt will try to keep him from getting disheartened, pointing out it ought to have great lift and would only need a short runway.
But it does need tweaks, and he has some ideas for that. Veidt will look at the nachtvogel and sketch out the Horten Ho 229 and another sketch of the B-2 Spirit of our own timeline, to push it into being more practically designed. Ideally, more like the B-2, since the Nachvogel almost looks like two B-2s attached together anyway. If he doesn't have any ideas for making it stealth fighter-bomber, he"ll suggest mixing in charcoal dust with wood glue to absorb the electromagnetic waves of radar and anti-reflective paint (making sure it has a neutral grey matte finish, really. Darker on the undersides since it"ll be flying at high-altitudes). By the time radar would detect it, minutes would have passed and it"ll be too late for the enemy to man their fighters or AA guns.
Production: Uranium Processing Facility
Military: Coordinate any factions that turn out to be neutral or willing to ally with Germany, particularly military elements into guarding the border. Especially her southern to discourage any adventurous Draka expedition. Also to support the French military in taking on any pro-American factions if they continue fighting. If VK weapons start showing up, our Werwolves will pull out their own VK toys to match them.
Covert: (Largely a repeat of last action with some minor edits to target British shipments, support any faction that is or willing to be pro-German and targeting any pro-American or pro-British faction (which may be pro-American by proxy at this point).
While Class VII U-boats seek out munitions-transports from the UK, and any US ones if they keep appearing. In a night-action, one (or, opportunistic, several) of those ships in harbor are sunk with torpedo-attacks. In the explosions of the munitions, such an action can easily be contributed to the ongoing brutalities while making a proper investigation hard to impossible. The U-boats else wise retreat back to Germany without ever making contact with the surface while the Werwolves retain their specialty of stealth to further destabilize France's regime before pulling out.
Should the covert weaponry be developed in time, they"ll be introduced for use in France by covert operatives.
Should exotic or VK technology be observed, we will fight VK with VK. All Werwolf troops will be given cyanide pills just in case, and will use uniforms and equipment with no identifying marks. They shall claim to be a private group of sympathizers from the Ruhr sent to support the French people in the pursuit of democracy if the media ever questions them. Which is half-true, but the factions they"ll support will be any that is pro-German, focusing against any that seem to be pro-American or pro-British (which is possibly pro-American by proxy). Arms and munitions will be sent through the U-Boats while non-military supplies will be shipped/smuggled in under the guise of humanitarian aid, should they be caught.
On the other hand, not maintaining government control over the technology would be an obvious mistake. Failing to control VK and it's applications would rapidly result in Germany being outmatched economically and in the field as enemies take advantage of our research.
As such, the solution lies elsewhere. The success of the IG Farben Facility shows the way forward. Industry cooperation with government supervision. The Goal of this operation will be to set up communication channels between Germanies large industrial conglomerates, and the governement. VK itself, nor it's applications, would be deregulated, but it's products will.
Examples : VK powerstations produce a massive amount of power at extremely low cost. In the first instance, this electric power will sold at low cost to the energy distributors. They will be responsible to ensure it's distribution to the rest of the country, and the expansion of their grid that may be needed to do this to it's full potential.
In addition, like with the IG Farben deal, trusted corporations can petition for aid in case of large scale projects. If the local grid is incapable of efficiently providing power, then a local generator may be installed.
Alternative projects are the introduction of VK refineries into the metalworking industry, the introduction of VK alloyed components (no VK products sold to civilians) in industry, introduction of new processing methods, the potential introduction of computing in select industries, and more.
Research 1: Covert weaponry is one avenue sorely needed by Germ nay with the disorienting pace of changes occurring both in and outside of her borders. He"ll have his teams look at all avenues of covert weaponry, but there are four he already has in mind. Fortunately for Veidt and his team, none of his ideas are too complicated.
The first avenue of research Veidt will look at will be the more scholarly kind of research. He knows that the Italian Frogmen of WW2 were formed in 1938, based on the actions of two Italians using primitive manned torpedoes in the Great War. Should the idea have been resurrected a bit over six years early, Veidt will simply try to get info from Italian military dignitaries. Veidt will mostly point to the actions of the Regina Marina in the Great War rather than making it seem like Italy is being spied on, and he"ll make sure to confirm this really happened in their Great War. If this method fails from the timelines being too divergent or he's rebuffed, he"ll simply have to start from scratch.
Scuba gear including rebreathers (which fortunately, already exist), will be developed alongside manned torpedoes so Germany will have his own frogman commandos--or in German, Froschmann.
The second avenue of research complements the first: underwater firearms, particularly an underwater assault rifle inspired by the OTL APS and ASM-DT amphibious rifle. It will use a gas actuated action so it shall work both underwater and on land. It will also use a perforated gas pipe and special shield to help break up any gas bubbles. This should make it easier to fire with better visibility and allow for stealthier shooting. To give our soldiers a weapon that will work on both water and land, it shall be designed in mind as a hybrid weapon: it will have two feed slots allowing it to take in two different magazines at the same time of different cartridges: one will be the typical 7.92x33mm, another will fire a 7.92x33mm steel bolt instead of a conventional bullet. The magazine release will be able to shift forward for when the operator wants to use the standard G32 magazine, and the rifle should automatically adjust its' gas system for when firing underwater. The barrel will be rifled with shallow grooves run along its' length, which should expel gases ahead of the bullet and blow out any water of the barrel. Finally, it will use a folding stock and be made compatible with existing firearm accessories (including rails).
The third avenue of research will be a silent pistol inspired by the OTL!PSS silent pistol, which is fortunately something relatively low-tech and easy enough to reproduce. It shall be used for assassination developed in a variety of calibers, being based off the cartridge of the Russian (7.62), Draka (whatever the current Draka caliber is) and German rifles (7.92). The pistol will be made as a fairly typical double-action, recoil-operated handgun for use by special forces, secret police and assassins. The cartridges will contain an internal piston and propelling charge, with the stem of the piston against the bullet. On firing, the gas should propel the piston, which should in turn propel the bullet. A (purely conventional version) at least may not have a lot of range or power to be used for anything more than close combat/short-range assassinations, but that will be the niche it shall be used for.
Not only will they hardly leave any noise, but variants using 7.62, (again whatever caliber Draka use--should be 7.5 if they're using the T-4 and T-5?) and 7.92 calibers. With forensics being what it is today (and likely for the next few decades at least), it should also fool investigators into thinking any targets were sniped by a russian, draka or german rifle.
The fourth is by far the most low-tech, and more useful for Werwolf operatives and whoever they train: creating mosqutio and toe-popper style mines.
Research 2: With the advent of Digital Computing (thank God for that, because there was no way he could tolerate living without them and then having to settle for the abominations the Drakaverse originally created), it is time for the German industrial machine to shift to computer numerical machining, whether mere numerical machining had been invented early in this timeline or not. CNC Machining is a process wherein various machining tools, such as lasers, mills, lathes and drills, have extra motors and servos installed, and are guided via computer with commands and coordinates programmed into them, following a simple programming language such as G-code. This automates the machining process, making it faster, more efficient and more precise than operating the tools manually. It also reduces the workload of the operator since the machine pretty much runs on its own after it is set up. This will surely aid our manufacturing industry.
Design: You will take what the man who envisioned the nachvogel and give him a team to work with in designing it, of both aircraft engineers/designers and scientists. Early in the process, Veidt will make sure to fish out the more ambitious and wondrous aims of his vision and work it into something more aerodynamic and practical so it won't be mere wunderwaffen.
When he sees a sketch of the nachvogel, Veidt will say he's impressed by the design but point out he may be missing the boring details. Going by its' looks, it would have severe compression issues, the controls would likely lock up at high speed. Any high-G maneuvers would rip it apart, forcing it to fight enemy fighters and bombers through boom and zoom maneuvers. It looks like it may be good for stealth against radar, but the large gaps in it wouldn't be helping it. Veidt will try to keep him from getting disheartened, pointing out it ought to have great lift and would only need a short runway.
But it does need tweaks, and he has some ideas for that. Veidt will look at the nachtvogel and sketch out the Horten Ho 229 and another sketch of the B-2 Spirit of our own timeline, to push it into being more practically designed. Ideally, more like the B-2, since the Nachvogel almost looks like two B-2s attached together anyway. If he doesn't have any ideas for making it stealth fighter-bomber, he"ll suggest mixing in charcoal dust with wood glue to absorb the electromagnetic waves of radar and anti-reflective paint (making sure it has a neutral grey matte finish, really. Darker on the undersides since it"ll be flying at high-altitudes). By the time radar would detect it, minutes would have passed and it"ll be too late for the enemy to man their fighters or AA guns.
Production: Uranium Processing Facility
Military: Coordinate any factions that turn out to be neutral or willing to ally with Germany, particularly military elements into guarding the border. Especially her southern to discourage any adventurous Draka expedition. Also to support the French military in taking on any pro-American factions if they continue fighting. If VK weapons start showing up, our Werwolves will pull out their own VK toys to match them.
Covert: (Largely a repeat of last action with some minor edits to target British shipments, support any faction that is or willing to be pro-German and targeting any pro-American or pro-British faction (which may be pro-American by proxy at this point).
While Class VII U-boats seek out munitions-transports from the UK, and any US ones if they keep appearing. In a night-action, one (or, opportunistic, several) of those ships in harbor are sunk with torpedo-attacks. In the explosions of the munitions, such an action can easily be contributed to the ongoing brutalities while making a proper investigation hard to impossible. The U-boats else wise retreat back to Germany without ever making contact with the surface while the Werwolves retain their specialty of stealth to further destabilize France's regime before pulling out.
Should the covert weaponry be developed in time, they"ll be introduced for use in France by covert operatives.
Should exotic or VK technology be observed, we will fight VK with VK. All Werwolf troops will be given cyanide pills just in case, and will use uniforms and equipment with no identifying marks. They shall claim to be a private group of sympathizers from the Ruhr sent to support the French people in the pursuit of democracy if the media ever questions them. Which is half-true, but the factions they"ll support will be any that is pro-German, focusing against any that seem to be pro-American or pro-British (which is possibly pro-American by proxy). Arms and munitions will be sent through the U-Boats while non-military supplies will be shipped/smuggled in under the guise of humanitarian aid, should they be caught.
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UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can German businesses adopt the Open Innovation Model?
For a game with rapid tech advancement, this may be useful.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Maybe you could add that somewhere?
Oh, in the Social Action? Perhaps. I"ll read up more about it when I'm not so tired.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Anyone have any idea what this could be?
On a side note, @Gideon020 , could you archive the American andSovidt intel like how you do it with the Draka?