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Noblesse Oblige [Znt/SI]

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Sapphire Basil said:
This kind of logic was brought up in LN, remember. Decorative sword did cause the rune to glow, which kind of makes sense as a sword is the most basic weapon that Brimir made sure the runes worked on.

I'm not saying the logic is wrong. I'm saying that it must be intended to be built as a weapon, or has a concept of a weapon. Because even if you say it's a decorative thing, it was FIRST built on the concept of a weapon once (since it's called a sword even how decorative it is). So I wouldn't use a decorative sword as a good example because of this considering how the Void can make thing so abstract yet narrows it down e.g. the working behind the summoning.

Whether it's up to Gandalfr, I wouldn't know as the LN was ambiguous on this, what is clear cut is that you won't see frying pan ninjas or whatsoever bullshit.
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So what this boils down to is that the original source doesn't say whether Saito could or could not use improvised weapons, but certain people will rage quit a fic anyways because they can't believe it if Saito uses the runes with anything that's not clasified as a weapon.

Zero fighters are mainly classed as vehicles. They can have weapons mounted on them.
 
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Sakuya's Butler said:
We need a fic where the Gandalfr is someone that knows how to use Iron Fans, specifically the ones with razor tips, and then completely screws over someone else's plans because that someone thinks he/she is of no consequence due to 'merely' having a fan on them, and thus, not a threat.

And no, I don't mean the Mortal Kombat/Kitana bullshit crap that's completely unrealistic, but someone who was trained on actual real Iron Fans/War Fans.
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This sort of method would probably be the best way to go about it for nonstandard weapons in general- The weapon works for the Runes, but only if the Gandalfr in question is already competent enough that it would count as a valid weapon in their hands without the runes(except that this runs into a slight speed bump with the Zero fighter).

This could also work for martial arts, but only if the Gandalfr was already at the 'practically a walking weapon' stage* for the style in question, perhaps?

*That is to say, the incorrectly labeled 'legally speaking, a weapon' stage of training/practice.
Matou Sutegobana said:
Zero fighters are mainly classed as vehicles. They can have weapons mounted on them.
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Don't really have much to add to this; it's just that if I had typed this 8 minutes earlier, I'd have been ninja'd.
 
Really, if you have a hard time thinking what counts as a weapon for Gandalfr runes, just remind yourself gandalfr were made to face an army and give time for their summoner. Haxx warrior. That is their sole single purpose of why they were summoned.

So if a weapon is guaranteed to face a battle, as in full blown battle that has armies, then it is guaranteed to work.

Tea cups and paper clips would not.

The rest is up to fanfic writers not to make obnoxious bullshit.
 
Sapphire Basil said:
When Brimir created Gandalfr, his concept what counts as weapons are swords and spears. He had this in mind when he literally carved Sasha hand with the rune.

He does not have the meta mind like SV or SB members like intending the gandalfr to use paperclip or tea cup, and frankly it makes sense considering he's a nomad who put more trust in blades than some bullshit frying pan to face an army that's about to genocide his race.

So yes, the runes would work on something meant to be a weapon and only as a weapon, not something that could be used as a weapon.

And this is coming from LN where the runes only works on a sword and zero fighter. Not tea cups or paper clip or whatever garbage shit that echi anime brings up.
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I am pretty sure you are wrong.

The Gandalf runes activate on intent and belief, that is why Saito had fluctuating power problems in the LN. Heck I am pretty sure derflinger says as much after Saito loses to Wardes the first time.

We don't know what would happen with a martial artist that believes his body is a weapon, but the runes would be more consistent at the very least.
 
Chaoswind said:
I am pretty sure you are wrong
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Uh nope. That's speculation. If you want to know about Sasha and Brimir. Vol 18. (Urgh. It's the Volume where Vitt sent Saito back. It could be 16) It will tell you the point of Gandalfr or why Gandalfr are the first of void familiar that exist.

As for the discrepancy of the power in LN. That's just shit writing and logic. Not the writer being smart in using bullshit power, frankly I've never heard of this excuse.
 
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Sapphire Basil said:
Uh nope. That's speculation. If you want to know about Sasha and Brimir. Vol 18. (Urgh. It's the Volume where Vitt sent Saito back. It could be 16) It will tell you the point of Gandalfr or why Gandalfr are the first of void familiar that exist.

As for the discrepancy of the power in LN. That's just shit writing and logic. Not the writer being smart in using bullshit power, frankly I've never heard of this excuse.
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"You are wrong because I am ignoring the evidence I don't like to push my one legged narrative"

Clearly the Runes Brimir did in his youth represent the PEAK of what the Familiar Gandalf can do, there is no way Brimir could have improved them as he got older no sir.
 
Chaoswind said:
"You are wrong because I am ignoring the evidence I don't like to push my one legged narrative"

Clearly the Runes Brimir did in his youth represent the PEAK of what the Familiar Gandalf can do, there is no way Brimir could have improved them as he got older no sir.
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Huh? Look Sasha is an elf, she would have bullshit passive martial art spirit magic. Newest Vol where they fought mook elves.

Except in the end that's not enough. The Varyag were an unstoppable army that kept coming and hunting down Brimir nomadic tribe, in fact they are nomadic for this reason.

Even with teleport spells Brimir tribes were constantly in danger from them.

Elves also had the same problem dealing with the Varyag and were also fighting them and standing their ground. Think Daedric invasion. Long story short, Brimir needed someone to cover him in his spell, enter Sasha his lover. He carved the rune into her left hand to give the boost needed to deal with the army with his square class tribe mage. Basically Tarbes again and again with Portal to move his tribe. That was why Gandalfr exist as it is literally the prototype of void familiars.

There was no summoning spell back then, Brimir hasn't learn the genocide spell. That's way after he made Myoz familiar. And so far Sasha was the only Gandalfr he ever had so I wouldn't know he made any improvement. (Unless you count the mass weapon spell that brought zero fighter and submarine)

Derf was talking about Saito reason of fighting and how he was feeling about Louise and his place in the world. I don't know. I'm not sure. Ask Flere about this. I also recall it gave birth to a mistranslation of mind control garbage, but that could be the convo after Foquet. Saito problem with the rune has always to do because the plot demands it, not because he wasn't sure. Remember he always rush in battle, he never stands down and he always always hope to god the runes would activate to save his butt.

I mean you could argue he somehow drains the rune power of its one per day limit, but in the end it is nowhere stated in canon his belief affects the runes. So yeah, it's still speculation in the end. :/
 
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Alternatively, all this confusion could be ditched in favor of making the Gandalfr's capabilities in line with whatever makes the most interesting story.
 
Sapphire Basil said:
Huh? Look Sasha is an elf, she would have bullshit passive martial art spirit magic. Newest Vol where they fought mook elves.

Except in the end that's not enough. The Varyag were an unstoppable army that kept coming and hunting down Brimir nomadic tribe, in fact they are nomadic for this reason.

Even with teleport spells Brimir tribes were constantly in danger from them.

Elves also had the same problem dealing with the Varyag and were also fighting them and standing their ground. Think Daedric invasion. Long story short, Brimir needed someone to cover him in his spell, enter Sasha his lover. He carved the rune into her left hand to give the boost needed to deal with the army with his square class tribe mage. Basically Tarbes again and again with Portal to move his tribe. That was why Gandalfr exist as it is literally the prototype of void familiars.

There was no summoning spell back then, Brimir hasn't learn the genocide spell. That's way after he made Myoz familiar. And so far Sasha was the only Gandalfr he ever had so I wouldn't know he made any improvement. (Unless you count the mass weapon spell that brought zero fighter and submarine)

Derf was talking about Saito reason of fighting and how he was feeling about Louise and his place in the world. I don't know. I'm not sure. Ask Flere about this. I also recall it gave birth to a mistranslation of mind control garbage, but that could be the convo after Foquet. Saito problem with the rune has always to do because the plot demands it, not because he wasn't sure. Remember he always rush in battle, he never stands down and he always always hope to god the runes would activate to save his butt.

I mean you could argue he somehow drains the rune power of its one per day limit, but in the end it is nowhere stated in canon his belief affects the runes. So yeah, it's still speculation in the end. :/
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So your assumptions are as follows:

1) The author had no idea what he was doing, thus the "inconsistent" power of the Gandalfr runes.

2) The Gandalf runes carved in Sasha were not improved by Brimir in the years they remained as companions and lovers, thus what adolescent Brimir did is equal to what adult Brimir could do.

3) Derflinger was talking shit when he said Saito's mindset affected the Runes.

Am I wrong in my assumptions?

If your headcanon requires you to ignore elements of canon to remain plausible then thats shitty headcanon. I can understand the appeal (Bleach ended when Gin killed Aizen), but that doesn't mean you can claim your interpretation of canon is the correct one when you are forced to ignore evidence to reach said interpretation.
 
Chaoswind said:
So your assumptions are as follows:

1) The author had no idea what he was doing, thus the "inconsistent" power of the Gandalfr runes.

2) The Gandalf runes carved in Sasha were not improved by Brimir in the years they remained as companions and lovers, thus what adolescent Brimir did is equal to what adult Brimir could do.

3) Derflinger was talking shit when he said Saito's mindset affected the Runes.

Am I wrong in my assumptions?

If your headcanon requires you to ignore elements of canon to remain plausible then thats shitty headcanon. I can understand the appeal (Bleach ended when Gin killed Aizen), but that doesn't mean you can claim your interpretation of canon is the correct one when you are forced to ignore evidence to reach said interpretation.
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When you were talking about Saito's mindset affecting the runes, do you mean this:

While blocking the sword, Wardes asked.
"Why did you come back to die? To risk your life for Louise who despises you? I can't understand how a commoner's mind works!"
Saito shouted while swinging the sword. "Then why did you bastard try to kill Louise!? You were her fiancée!"
"Hahaha, you are still in love with Louise? A servant's hopeless love for his master! That's really funny! That arrogant Louise will never turn to you! Mere compassion mistaken for love! Fool!"
"So what if I fell in love!"
Saito shouted while biting down his lips.
"However…"
"However, what?"
"It is beating!"
"What?"
A puzzled expression floated on Wardes' face.
"Aah! When seeing that face, my heart is beating faster! This reason is good enough for me! Therefore I will defend Louise!"
Saito screamed.
The runes started shining.
Matching the light, Derflinger also shone brighter.
"Good! That's good partner! Right! That's the key! I remembered! I know the source of Gandálfr's power! Good partner!"
Finally Saito's sword cut down another Wardes.
"Wha?"
Wardes grimaced in an unbearable pain.
"Gandálfr's source of power is feelings! Anger! Sadness! Love! Pleasure! Anything is good! And now you seem to be really shaken, my Gandálfr!"
...
"Aah, partner. Don't act foolishly now – Gandálfr cannot move after wasting his energy. That's because this familiar was created to defend his master while the master chants the spell."
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That's basically showed the Rune worked on emotion, just like Willpower works on charged emotion. Not belief. This is to stress the bonds between familiar and master is important, the more stronger it is, therefore the stronger a familiar's emotions to their master, the more powerful it will fuel the rune. Brimir was kinda lucky he picked Sasha really considering she loved him and was willing to fight armies for him.

As for Brimir improving the Gandalfr. Why should he? I mean, again, you are arguing Brimir has some SB competence or some meta mind like ours. He doesn't and frankly he sees no reason to improve it. It worked perfectly, that's what it's intended for those who can wield "weapons". It's up to writers to make sure what counts as weapons though considering the Void is abstract enough on the concept of weapons.

He moved on to other projects like new familiars, genocide spells, fucking off Halkeginia's spirit population.

And I have yet to understand how it's headcanon when I explained my reasonings and evidences...
 
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So...

So theoretically speaking, if the familiar with the Gandalfr runes were to pick up, say a person, could use them as a weapon?

Because that sounds like a really good idea for a crack fic.
 
As much fun as this is to discuss, is there not a better place to discuss it? Because there was a point where this began to be a derail, and that was around the start of the last page- As entertaining as it may be to contemplate how the Gandalfr runes work and what counts as a 'weapon', and despite what other fun ideas may come of it, the lengths to which we've taken it doesn't really have much bearing on this fic.
And I say this reluctantly; this has been fun to read...
 
Twitches and flops despirately in direction of thread... death rattle eminates from hug and fluff starved Pseudosim.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Anyone else ever wonder if Raven will ever get a chance to shank a bitch?
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If by shank you mean put axe to face... then I would assume to. My personal candidate for this is pretty boy Windalfr, maybe he tries to control Raven or something and it ends up not working because he is a demon and henry gives him allowance to retaliate- hence allowing him to shank a bitch via axe to face, swung at sufficient velocity.
 
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Ruisu said:
Well, that's a shade. It seems that finally all the fluff affected him
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Fever has gone down. Still feels as if a truck ran me down, but victory is near.
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Valhalla shant take him yet!

Now to make this post actually worthwhile. Does anyone know whether or not Henry has started construction on a sister ship for the Windland? I imagine it took him a year or more to build just the one.
 
PseudoSim said:
Valhalla shant take him yet!

Now to make this post actually worthwhile. Does anyone know whether or not Henry has started construction on a sister ship for the Windland? I imagine it took him a year or more to build just the one.
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Who knows, but here's the rub about the Windland and any derivative designs. They strategically fill the same gap as modern Carrier Battle Groups do for the U.S. A single concentration of force that can outright win against any other opponent. They also cost ungodly amounts of money to build, own, and operate. The Windland is likely to be alone for awhile until Gallia has the experience running just one for a couple of years. Also because they're gonna need to get the money together to build a second one.
 
Decim said:
Who knows, but here's the rub about the Windland and any derivative designs. They strategically fill the same gap as modern Carrier Battle Groups do for the U.S. A single concentration of force that can outright win against any other opponent. They also cost ungodly amounts of money to build, own, and operate. The Windland is likely to be alone for awhile until Gallia has the experience running just one for a couple of years. Also because they're gonna need to get the money together to build a second one.
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True. But after they get experience and workout a few kinks/improvements, it usually becomes a little bit cheaper and quicker to build after the first one. They would know what works and what doesn't which should speed up construction of sister ships/flying fortresses.
 
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