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Meow Quest (PMMM Catgirl!Homura)

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Zam said:
Well given their connected to the persons soul I could see why they'd understand what the wisher once within guidelines, sort of anyway.
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That is correct... according to one possible explanation of wishes... which is based mostly on Kyubey's notoriously unreliable commentary... and if true would have side-effects that don't appear to happen in PMMM.

As I mentioned, I'm trying to get all of this straight for a post on the help thread. It's a bloody nightmare.

Zam said:
As for saving Madoka, I thought Amura's wish was something like going back to Madoka to play with her again and get pets and such?
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She was a baseline cat at the time. Her precise desires aren't particularly translatable.

TheBleachDoctor said:
***kitteh***
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Thanks, I needed that. Goddamn wishes and their goddamn crazy inconsistent rules. I'm not even trying to write up the physics of wishes, I'm trying to write up the ground rules for discussing the physics of wishes, and it's still taking hours to get this post straight. Grrrr.
 
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TheBleachDoctor said:
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Aww shy kitty.
apeljohn said:
That is correct... according to one possible explanation of wishes... which is based mostly on Kyubey's notoriously unreliable commentary... and if true would have side-effects that don't appear to happen in PMMM.

As I mentioned, I'm trying to get all of this straight for a post on the help thread. It's a bloody nightmare.
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Well I think its worth noting Kyubey doesn't or can't lie, at least as far as I know, it just deliberately leaves facts out or frames certain aspects in certain lights.

Sorry good luck to you.
apeljohn said:
She was a baseline cat at the time. Her precise desires aren't particularly translatable.
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That's actually why I thought the wish responds to the desire in the soul over the exact working but still with a framework from the users mind if they have enough of one to give it a framework when expressing a 'desire'.
 
Zam said:
Well I think its worth noting Kyubey doesn't or can't lie, at least as far as I know, it just deliberately leaves facts out or frames certain aspects in certain lights.
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True, but it seems to distinguish between bullshitting and outright lying. I.e. it will happily give a waffly "explanation" that sounds like it was ghostwritten by Deepak Chopra, as long as it doesn't actually make any specific statements that contravene reality.

See the manga snippet in this post for an example. Kyubey says: "Wishes are things that don't exist in the current reality, and anything that deviates from that reality is bound to create a distortion. So why does it surprise anyone that these things end in disaster? It's the natural outcome after all. If they think that's some kind of betrayal, they shouldn't have made the wish in the first place." (Exact wording depends on translation.)

This is such self-evident bollocks that I'm surprised his nose didn't grow ten feet. Not only is it a shameless attempt to avoid culpability for strategically misunderstanding the concept of "informed consent", it also contradicts pretty much everything else we know about wishes. But it's all so vague and fluffy and new-agey that it doesn't breach whatever geas Kyubey is under to tell the truth.

I personally suspect that Kyubey is operating under a rule like "never speak an untrue sentence". So he can say "{disaster is} the natural outcome after all" because if you wait long enough then disaster is the natural outcome of anything. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the distortions he talks about in the first sentence, or the question of culpability he references in the fourth sentence.

Alternatively, Kyubey can lie, he just finds it useful that everyone thinks he can't so he tries not to do it too blatantly. Although given that he can apparently mind-fuck people into not remembering magic, so could presumably do the same for anyone who catches him in a lie, that seems a little convoluted.

Zam said:
That's actually why I thought the wish responds to the desire in the soul over the exact working but still with a framework from the users mind if they have enough of one to give it a framework when expressing a 'desire'.
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Sadly Meow Quest isn't actually PMMM canon, much as we might wish otherwise. I'd agree, though, that the Wish is somehow making a best guess as to what the human wanted, rather than really listening to the words they speak. Although in true Sorceror's Apprentice fashion it doesn't always interpret those wants correctly...
 
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apeljohn said:
True, but it seems to distinguish between bullshitting and outright lying. I.e. it will happily give a waffly "explanation" that sounds like it was ghostwritten by Deepak Chopra, as long as it doesn't actually make any specific statements that contravene reality.

See the manga snippet in this post for an example. Kyubey says: "Wishes are things that don't exist in the current reality, and anything that deviates from that reality is bound to create a distortion. So why does it surprise anyone that these things end in disaster? It's the natural outcome after all. If they think that's some kind of betrayal, they shouldn't have made the wish in the first place." (Exact wording depends on translation.)

This is such self-evident bollocks that I'm surprised his nose didn't grow ten feet. Not only is it a shameless attempt to avoid culpability for strategically misunderstanding the concept of "informed consent", it also contradicts pretty much everything else we know about wishes. But it's all so vague and fluffy and new-agey that it doesn't breach whatever geas Kyubey is under to tell the truth.

I personally suspect that Kyubey is operating under a rule like "never speak an untrue sentence". So he can say "{disaster is} the natural outcome after all" because if you wait long enough then disaster is the natural outcome of anything. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the distortions he talks about in the first sentence, or the question of culpability he references in the fourth sentence.
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Hmm, while I do have some responses in mind for this (defending Kyubey feels weird) I'm not so sure its relevant to this thread and I should probably get back to work at some point. Sorry for the trouble.
apeljohn said:
Sadly Meow Quest isn't actually PMMM canon, much as we might wish otherwise. I'd agree, though, that the Wish is somehow making a best guess as to what the human wanted, rather than really listening to the words they speak. Although in true Sorceror's Apprentice fashion it doesn't always interpret those wants correctly...
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True, though in this case I think we were having separate discussion on accident, sorry. :oops:

Maybe a Catgirl will be nice?
 
Zam said:
Maybe a Catgirl will be nice?
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Catgirl is always nice.

GonnaSneeze said:
We get it, Kyubey's a dick
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I actually have an hypothesis that Kyubey isn't a dick so much as a broken woobie. Consider for a moment the wider PMMM ecosystem, where more advanced species feed off less advanced species by using their emotions to generate power, ultimately resulting in the victim's destruction at the hands of super-witches. How would one go about surviving such an attack?

You can't simply kill off the witches. The only thing that can really kill a witch is a magical girl, and the more magical girls you have now the more witches you will have in future. However, witches are apparently dependent on the human capacity for grief to survive. What if you could starve them to death?

In this model, the Incubators are a species who at one point in their history were perfectly nice happy emotion-filled little fluffballs. Then another species started them down the Magical Bunnycat death spiral. Realising it was their only way for their species to survive its doom, they effectively lobotomised themself en masse, ripping any capacity for emotion out of their souls.

...And, having lost the emotions that would let them realise what monsters they have become, they now prey on other young species in the same way that they were once preyed on. There but for the grace of Madokami go we.

I should note that this is all 100% pure speculation. But it's pretty consistent with everything else we know.
 
LostDeviljho said:
100% pure speculation. But... I would love to see this implemented in a quest or fic because damn.
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It would work better as a fic IMO. A PMMM/Equilibrium crossover where the Tetragrammaton are actually the good guys because they're the ones trying to grant humanity herd immunity to Kyubey, and where the enclaves of rebels have a nasty tendency to disappear into witches' barriers at the drop of a grief seed.

You could have the protagonist be a "clerical girl", a magical girl under the control of the Tetragrammaton, given a special exemption from the Prozium emotion-suppression drug so that she can help them fight off both the existing witches and the rebels' magical girls. Armed with a variety of advanced magitech weapons, she fights to save humanity in full knowledge that, on the off-chance they actually manage to eliminate all the witches, her only reward will be a choice of poison or pistol.

Then suddenly Libria gets access to a massive influx of magical power, which it uses to pacify the remaining rebels and shatter the witches' barriers like eggshells. The war is almost over, she can see the end in sight, she can finally stop...

...Until she finds out where the power is coming from. The Tetragrammaton's research division had been experimenting with interplanetary magical travel, in an effort to keep the Kyubey out permanently. In the course of searching for a solution, they had travelled to and explored many other worlds, most of which were uninhabited. But on one planet they'd managed to stumble across an uncontacted species with less knowledge of magic and technology.

And then one scientist had the bright idea of finding some young females of the species and offering them a contract...
 
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I assume hugs mean agreement so here ya go!

Not pictured the pile of dead people just off-screen, they really shouldn't have been mean to that cat - got in Neo's way.
 
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