Magical Girl Home Base Quest

I kind of feel that the questers are spiralling, and making a lot of assumptions. That's natural, but "we're in an irreversible death spiral" doesn't seem supported by the facts, to me. We seem to have reasonablish odds at making it through the crisis: we have several well-armed MGs, know some very powerful ones who might step in, and we're set to take a stab at the Big Bad in a few weeks. In the meantime, we're playing a character whose specialty is manufacturing Bombs, which should be good at taking out a Big Bad.

Remember we started at zero, and so far haven't lost any major assets (we've lost newbie girls, which is tragic, but that's the cost of doing business in the world of this quest). At worst, it's possible we could have risen faster. I'd have loved to put a couple more actions into Lab upgrades, but I don't know how much difference it would have made right this second. The Kolobok might have helped, but it might also have been a T3 Trinket, or it could have put us in the situation we're in right now - hard to say.

I'm happy to believe we're not on the optimal path, but I don't think we're losing right now.
 
To be fair, this isn't an unwinnable game.

To also be fair, if something has consequences that don't show up in like the next update, y'all tend to forget it exists and I find this an endless source of black humor.
 
I'm not trying to be doom and gloom, I'm trying to construct votes that will get us out of this, but I see no reason not to be realistic about how badly we've fucked up and how unlikely it is that well succeed at this point. We need to play a perfect game from here on out, and half of us still can't seem to grasp why our earlier plays were flawed.

Why do you think that we screwed up badly enough that nothing less than perfect play will result in success? By word of QM mistakes were made, but nothing seems unrecoverable. Maybe we'll lose more MGs to the crisis than we had to, and that sucks. But the MGs are still winning against the supernatural horrors, we still have plenty of incoming MGs, our base isn't being threatened, and our big threat right now seems to be exhausting ourselves. That's hardly a death spiral.
 
I'll note a really severe difference between "this will men that it's possible to get new crafters eventually" and "we will totally get at least one new crafter soon if we do this". Let's not sell ourselves the latter when the truth is the former.

That having been said, while I like the purification room... yeah, that thing takes time.

I still assert that (unless something major changes) trying to keep all of the girls geared up is basically a losing game. There are simply too many of them, and powering them up one at a time does not scale.

Oh yes. I mean even if the project coughed up a +1 Workshop Slot bonus in the very first week it'd still take some time for word to get out.

That said, even if it's basically impossible to truly keep up with the demand for gear, more hands working on it can't hurt. Also means more hands working on other projects too.



Off the top of my head, I'd say the biggest opportunity cost loss was taking a turn on the bunkhouse room, but to be fair I'm guessing most people were assuming it'd be a bit more dramatic than 'normal room, but with one extra bed.'

Edit: I mean, there could well be worse, I'm just being lazy and don't feel like digging right now :V



All that said, the discussion reminds me a bit of max difficulty Survival Mode Frostpunk, which... I am unfortunately having a weirdly hard time putting into words. If someone else that's played it feels like chiming in that'd be great because it feels like a really apt comparison, but the most I can think to say right now is that everything is horrible and you have no choice but to desperately hang on by the skin of your teeth, but if you can hang on long enough everything just... opens up.


Edit 2: Going forward, I should probably keep Frostpunk in mind more, there are certain attitudes it helps to have there that could come in handy keeping things afloat here. On the other hand, it's actually possible to keep everyone alive in Frostpunk :V
 
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This, ten thousand times this. If at first you think there's a dearth of information, read the text more closely. Everything not part of the mechanical system is properly described, if not where one would expect to find it.
To be fair, this isn't an unwinnable game.

To also be fair, if something has consequences that don't show up in like the next update, y'all tend to forget it exists and I find this an endless source of black humor.

There's a lot of reasons most quests have explicitly obvious, signposted results. (Oftentimes going so far as to completely separate story results from game mechanic results.) You've told us that there's relevant info between the lines in each update, but usually none of that literary analysis has actually happened in thread discussions. We just don't see any of it when we read the updates.
 
There's a lot of reasons most quests have explicitly obvious, signposted results. (Oftentimes going so far as to completely separate story results from game mechanic results.) You've told us that there's relevant info between the lines in each update, but usually none of that literary analysis has actually happened in thread discussions. We just don't see any of it when we read the updates.

Well boy howdy sucks to be you. Gonna have to crack out that old LitAnalysis book or something then, maybe query some people. I just write this and drink absynthe.
 
Well boy howdy sucks to be you. Gonna have to crack out that old LitAnalysis book or something then, maybe query some people. I just write this and drink absynthe.



Which given how subjective lit analysis can be you either have more absynthe or something else to enjoy when we go running off after the resulting Will 'o the wisp straight off a cliff.

Being able to laugh (darkly) at your own mistakes will be important in this quest I see! :)
 
Well boy howdy sucks to be you. Gonna have to crack out that old LitAnalysis book or something then, maybe query some people. I just write this and drink absynthe.

Let me be more straightforward. If you want your readers to notice these things, to not "tend to forget it exists", you need to make them more explicit. If you don't, don't be surprised when your audience disappoints you.

Communication is a two way street, even in storytelling. If you want your readers to notice something, you need some amount of signposting to guide them there. Otherwise you're not asking your readers to be better at understanding what you wrote, ("litanalysis",) you're asking them to read your mind. Even an expert like me has trouble doing that.
 
The update speed probably doesn't help in that regard either - if a week or two passes, then I bet most of the readership will have forgotten more than one or maybe two updates back. Or hell, maybe even the previous one.

This isn't intended as a criticism of said update speed, but just a reality of the situation.
 
Word of QM would be more accurately surmised as 'this story is based upon my experiences working in soup kitchens and clothing donations centers and reflects the realities of endemic poverty' since my work with the Baldwin Center of Pontiac was the direct inspiration for a lot of the scenes involving food and the mess hall. I'm not going to lie, when I started this I had a morbid curiosity in how SV's best and brightest would handle something this... I suppose I'll say grounded?

And now I know.
Let me be more straightforward. If you want your readers to notice these things, to not "tend to forget it exists", you need to make them more explicit. If you don't, don't be surprised when your audience disappoints you.

Communication is a two way street, even in storytelling. If you want your readers to notice something, you need some amount of signposting to guide them there. Otherwise you're not asking your readers to be better at understanding what you wrote, ("litanalysis",) you're asking them to read your mind. Even an expert like me has trouble doing that.

As an add-on to this, if you write based on experiences that most of your readers don't have any familiarity with (and I imagine most people posting here don't have any exposure to the realities of endemic poverty beyond the occasional news article), then you'll need even more signposting, because they'll have no way of knowing the significance of a Clue you drop based on those unshared experiences. If your Clues are all between the lines, we may not even be able to deduce that there are any Clues.
 
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Anyways, to speak of the update, I think its rather obvious that the point is being made that the place we are at is firmly on the radar for most supernatural groups in the city and maybe beyond.

"As long as you can keep everything else moving on the right direction." Jocelyne muttered. "This place is a rat's nest of emissions and draws- and it doesn't help that Rose's plants are all indipendant actors and that the girls camped out beyond the boundary line are careless."

The concentration of magical girls and people coming and going means the demons likely know where we are and where to counterattack. Sure there's a lot of magical girls but most are inexperienced newbies. An attack against us could delay an attack against them long enough to let them do whatever they are trying to do.

Also, the boundary seems like its an important aspect of how the intervention from beyond the grave by dead magical girls that the QM hinted at is potentially a thing. Maybe acting as an anchor for such intervention due to both its strength and connection that the magical girls form to Medicine Boy.

Edit: Also, question, has Homer actually interacted with the cat or is he just humoring MB by doing the following?

"Homer…" Medicine Boy muttered. "Remember… don't let the cat out…"

You nodded. "Of course, boss. I won't let the cat out."
 
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Being able to laugh (darkly) at your own mistakes will be important in this quest I see! :)

If the choice is laughing or crying, then choose laughter. It's easier to clean up.

Let me be more straightforward. If you want your readers to notice these things, to not "tend to forget it exists", you need to make them more explicit. If you don't, don't be surprised when your audience disappoints you.

You imply I want that, though. If you fail to win everything, then c'est la vie. If you fail to win anything, then I have made some miscalculations. So far, I cannot speak as to where I stand with this except with this mildly dry tone that implies I'm not going to ditch this yet.

As an add-on to this, if you write based on experiences that most of your readers don't have any familiarity with (and I imagine most people posting here don't have any exposure to the realities of endemic poverty beyond the occasional news article), then you'll need even more signposting, because they'll have no way of knowing the significance of a Clue you drop based on those unshared experiences. If your Clues are all between the lines, we may not even be able to deduce that there are any Clues.

On one hand, yes. I'm fighting a lot of 'this is obvious' moments when it comes to the writing, and moving things around to be more obvious (the fact I don't describe everyone's wealth by shoes for example) is an ongoing challenge.

On the other hand, no. While the aesthetics of the quest and a lot of the plot are built on and in the expectations and realities of poverty, the individual plot points and arcs aren't. The first arc was getting to know the girls, then there was Homer and Homer being a little ball'o shit, the disaster with Jocelyne (which honestly wasn't planned, y'all were gonna get Chris back then but it was a fun plot thread to run with and you got an almost as good mechanical bonus), and then your glaringly obvious prep time... and now this. While none of these are tropey messes since I have some dignity, they do follow common storytelling patterns in general and the more specific sort that this site breeds. There shouldn't be any alien concepts hiding critical information here- everything can be found with a little digging.

Edit: Also, question, has Homer actually interacted with the cat or is he just humoring MB by doing the following?

Homer knows there's a cat that has an amount of magic attached. The status of possession of that cat is not known.

Also, the boundary seems like its an important aspect of how the intervention from beyond the grave by dead magical girls that the QM hinted at is potentially a thing. Maybe acting as an anchor for such intervention due to both its strength and connection that the magical girls form to Medicine Boy.

Yes but no? If burial at (freshwater) sea was taken and you consequently got the Army of the Damned on tap, the trigger to summon them would be something breaking the first threshold, at which point every dead magical girl comes back screaming in with the arms they were buried with and a host of those they fell in glorious battle as their retinue. Likewise, if interment won, all the thresholds would be ridiculously reinforced- forget stopping someone from crossing the line in the sand, you could probably tank a plane without debris getting in your parking lot. Cremation, though, doesn't tie into a threshold since it is an expression of freedom. Mystically, it ties to something else, which then ties off to all the girls who live in the building. Once this crisis is over, you'll probably find out what since that's when I'm planning on rolling out some fresh hot loads of spoilers.

Here's a hint, though: someone had to know that Calypso could be given a soul.
 
Reversed the priorities, our early mindset was 'equip MGs, spend the remainder on ourselves' it should have been, 'focus on ourselves, spend whatever extras we can scrounge on MGs'.
Wait what? The early mindset was tons of building and one single gear-crafting action (e:might have been two, but point still stands) until the crisis hit. Your stated "better" path of action makes no sense as we already focussed almost all of MB's time as you said you would have.
 
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I think the proposed upgrades will have an effect on what our building will focus on.

Magical Condenser focuses on being a supplier. If more workshops are set up and upgraded Magical Girls can expect to have more equipment available for purchase. With the possibility of special requests or even being able to sell their loot.

Area of Purity focuses on emergency care. It cleans impurities from anything it can be focused upon. I suspect it will give an instant boost once finished, where the other options open up the chance to do more work in the future.

Magical Paternoster focuses on being a fortress. A place where many Magical Girls can prepare themselves to take back their city. This has some synergy with the situation room upgrade, but I feel like we're already working too hard one the people already using rooms. (Am I supposed to get the impression that we're housing a bunch of girls that don't know how to clean up after themselves or get along with one another, yet still demand more and more from MB?) An army is great and all, but each room still needs to be worked on by someone.

Scary thought. If we start getting a large amount of upgrades or resources will our building become a target for raids? (Possibly from black-hearted Magical Girls that need money)
 
(Am I supposed to get the impression that we're housing a bunch of girls that don't know how to clean up after themselves or get along with one another, yet still demand more and more from MB?) An army is great and all, but each room still needs to be worked on by someone.
Uh... "worked on" is tricky in context. The big issue we're facing is that the building is painfully overcrowded compared to the facilities we'd prepared before the present crisis.

Our one jury-rigged shower is no doubt horrifyingly overworked trying to keep up with the sanitary needs of all the girls. The plumbing situation is bad. The cooking situation isn't great either though (Chris, what's her name again) helps with that.

We let in just about the maximum number of girls we plausibly could for the duration of this emergency, but it comes with a price, because the living conditions get objectively worse as the building gets more crowded. And the girls "knowing how to clean up after themselves" wouldn't solve the problem by itself.

Scary thought. If we start getting a large amount of upgrades or resources will our building become a target for raids? (Possibly from black-hearted Magical Girls that need money)
We were just told that our building has passive 'threshold' defenses that tend to make it a tough target for such things. Plus, well, we have a loot of magical girls physically present to act as a garrison. I'm not to worried about lone raids, and we don't keep enough actual money on hand to be good targets for thieves, either.
 
Question for 7734: If we chose one of these long term projects what happens to the other options? Are they gone forever or are they locked behind certain conditions being meet like some building upgrades are?
 
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Let me be more straightforward. If you want your readers to notice these things, to not "tend to forget it exists", you need to make them more explicit. If you don't, don't be surprised when your audience disappoints you.

Communication is a two way street, even in storytelling. If you want your readers to notice something, you need some amount of signposting to guide them there. Otherwise you're not asking your readers to be better at understanding what you wrote, ("litanalysis",) you're asking them to read your mind. Even an expert like me has trouble doing that.
What the QM is saying is not "I'm disappointed in you all, and this makes me unhappy." It's "I find this humorous, and you all might want to step up." with a possible side order of "You know, if you all keep playing at your current level, I am prepared to Bad End you... and I won't even feel bad about it when I do."

So, right now, we have heard three things from the QM. First is the bit that I'm pretty sure I boiled down correctly, where we need to focus more on fixing our persistent issues, and less on burning ourselves out trying to produce gear for all the magical girls and other short-term gains. If we want this to work long-term, we're going to have to let some of them just die even when we could have saved them. We are faced with a world that is filled with the short-term needs of others, and those are true needs - they may well die if those needs are not fulfilled, and they will respond accordingly. Those needs are not our needs, though. We need to focus on the long term (which they simply cannot afford to do) and our own needs (when they are strongly motivated to convince us to sacrifice our needs on their behalf).

Second is that we've been missing thing that a more in-depth read would catch - things that aren't part of the numbers game. Third is that we're ignoring things just because they happened an update or two ago, and therefore losing important data about what needs to happen next. The solution to both of these things is the same. One or more people (preferably more) needs to go back and re-read the older posts, and come up with "oh, hey, I noticed this" and "oh, hey, here's something we need to pay attention to" and then we need to actually pay attention to those things. Unfortunately, I do not have the reserves to do that at this time. No guarantee I'll ahve those reserves later, either.
 
Second is that we've been missing thing that a more in-depth read would catch - things that aren't part of the numbers game. Third is that we're ignoring things just because they happened an update or two ago, and therefore losing important data about what needs to happen next.
In regards to that,it doesn't help much that the the time between updates is inconsistent(for understandable reasons) so even if people were to start digging deeper into the context clues of the narrative,most people would probably forget all the information inbetween updates. Updates can range from being a day to weeks apart depending on the QM's amount of free time. 3 days isn't too bad,but expecting people to remember shit when updates are 2 weeks apart is kind of stretching it. Unless someone were to make a list or something of potentially important stuff to know,constantly update it,and post it somewhere in the thread.



But I do agree with that we should probably be focusing more on the long term than what we have been doing. Hell,the whole long term thing is pretty much implied in the Quest summary itself.Magical Girls literally can't afford to focus on long term because the situation they're in,means they burn out quickly if they don't focus on the here and now. But MB doesn't have the same issues and yet most of the votes so far(crisis nonwithstanding) have been to focus on short term stuff.
 
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In regards to that,it doesn't help much that the the time between updates is inconsistent(for understandable reasons) so even if people were to start digging deeper into the context clues of the narrative,most people would probably forget all the information inbetween updates. Updates can range from being a day to weeks apart depending on the QM's amount of free time. 3 days isn't too bad,but expecting people to remember shit when updates are 2 weeks apart is kind of stretching it. Unless someone were to make a list or something of potentially important stuff to know,constantly update it,and post it somewhere in the thread.

But I do agree with that we should probably be focusing more on the long term than what we have been doing. Hell,the whole long term thing is pretty much implied the Quest summary itself.
No, that's what I'm saying. This is not the only quest where that happens. The solution to this is that one or more questers need to step up and do an archive dive to drag the info back to light. It's something that I've done for other quests, and do not currently have the resources to do for this quest. We've just been given a great big shining sign that this quest requires that level of analysis for best results, and we should at least consider reacting accordingly.
 
No, that's what I'm saying. This is not the only quest where that happens. The solution to this is that one or more questers need to step up and do an archive dive to drag the info back to light. It's something that I've done for other quests, and do not currently have the resources to do for this quest. We've just been given a great big shining sign that this quest requires that level of analysis for best results, and we should at least consider reacting accordingly.
Okay then..so some voters need to comb through the previous updates and see what they can find(such as notable details and clues) and then compile that into some kind of list,that updates constantly? I wonder which voters would be actually willing to do that though.
 
Okay then..so some voters need to comb through the previous updates and see what they can find(such as notable details and clues) and then compile that into some kind of list,that updates constantly? I wonder which voters would be actually willing to do that though.
not constantly... but you do need to do it from time to time, and then perhaps deliberately think to look back and keep track of things. It's not impossible. Again, I've done it, and I've seen others do it. You don't even need to compile it into a coherent list - just quite the pertinent chunks of text, plus interpretations of same. It's effort, but it can be done, and re-reading the quest does make things clearer in interesting ways.
 
Word of QM would be more accurately surmised as 'this story is based upon my experiences working in soup kitchens and clothing donations centers and reflects the realities of endemic poverty' since my work with the Baldwin Center of Pontiac was the direct inspiration for a lot of the scenes involving food and the mess hall. I'm not going to lie, when I started this I had a morbid curiosity in how SV's best and brightest would handle something this... I suppose I'll say grounded?

And now I know.
I think some of the problems we're smacking into come from the juxtaposition of "grounded" and "in the air" stuff. The magic system plays a big role in the plot and in defining the limits of the possible, but is only vaguely understood, not that Medicine Boy in-character has more than an intuitive grasp of it himself, necessarily.

The need for Medicine Boy to balance being both the craftsman who makes cool stuff and the building manager whose job is to make sure there is obviously something you wrote into the quest as a very intentional thing, but it's also exactly the kind of thing where a lot of people who try it burn out and fail, simply because you are literally doing two jobs and it's not like either of them is easy. That's especially true when one of the jobs can be physically exhausting, which (surprise!) all our crafting of magical stuff can be.

...
@7734

I'm guessing that the connections we missed here are collectively some combination of:

1) That Medicine Boy's magical mojo was stretched to the breaking point after the funerals, and that he would need to rest physically, AND/OR
2) Crowding of the building leads to poor sanitation and the spread of disease.

So, right now, we have heard three things from the QM. First is the bit that I'm pretty sure I boiled down correctly, where we need to focus more on fixing our persistent issues, and less on burning ourselves out trying to produce gear for all the magical girls and other short-term gains.
To be fair, what seems to have sparked this (I could be wrong) is salt about Medicine Boy collapsing in a fever delirium from making wands, when we hadn't thought that would be a problem.

That's... kind of a new issue, really.
 
The update speed probably doesn't help in that regard either - if a week or two passes, then I bet most of the readership will have forgotten more than one or maybe two updates back. Or hell, maybe even the previous one.

This isn't intended as a criticism of said update speed, but just a reality of the situation.
And not everyone has a good memory to remember all the details from previous updates, or time to constantly re-read the quest. This isn't BAHHSCQ.
Anyways, to speak of the update, I think its rather obvious that the point is being made that the place we are at is firmly on the radar for most supernatural groups in the city and maybe beyond.
The witch coven that came to our front yard to have a parley was quite the indicator of that.
I think the proposed upgrades will have an effect on what our building will focus on.

Magical Condenser focuses on being a supplier. If more workshops are set up and upgraded Magical Girls can expect to have more equipment available for purchase. With the possibility of special requests or even being able to sell their loot.

Area of Purity focuses on emergency care. It cleans impurities from anything it can be focused upon. I suspect it will give an instant boost once finished, where the other options open up the chance to do more work in the future.

Magical Paternoster focuses on being a fortress. A place where many Magical Girls can prepare themselves to take back their city. This has some synergy with the situation room upgrade, but I feel like we're already working too hard one the people already using rooms. (Am I supposed to get the impression that we're housing a bunch of girls that don't know how to clean up after themselves or get along with one another, yet still demand more and more from MB?) An army is great and all, but each room still needs to be worked on by someone.
Depends if the other upgrades just disappear, or we can build them later. If latter, I think it would be more accurate to say that the upgrade we choose unlocks a new specific part of the build tree.
 
Okay, so I see a lot of people blaming each other. Instead of adding to the pile, I'm just gonna focus on what we can do going forward.

First off, we need to start taking risky options, as per word of QM. The obvious risky options we can take are kolobok (put MB out of commission for a few weeks) and focusing on upgrading our workshop (do something that doesn't involve fixing immediate problems, thus likely getting magical girls killed). I think that we should start by doing the kolobok, mostly since that is the option that literally everyone agrees is risky.

The big thing we need to do once the current crisis is over is housing. We have a lot of magical girls here, and not enough space to house them. For this, we should first build a staircase/elevator/whatever to the second floor, and then tell magical girls that they can get a room rent free for X weeks by clearing out that room. The second it's cleared out, it's theirs. This houses more girls without making us take actions and will eventually start giving us more resources as the free rent expires. Another option is that we could let a smaller number of girls stay rent free indefinitely, as long as they continue clearing out rooms. Basically, let them pay rent through labor. This would probably house people more slowly though, so I think the first option is better.

Another problem we need to fix is that MB will occasionally fall unconscious from exhaustion and overwork. We don't really know whether there even is an option to avoid this, unfortunately. The only thing we know would have helped is ending the crisis sooner by focusing the magical girls on gathering information, but that was many weeks ago, before we really knew that we were burning out. Allowing write-ins would be extremely helpful in this quest, as it would let us take breaks when we notice we're burning out and also allow us a way to actually organize girls to clear out the building in exchange for free rent, instead of just talking about how we need to do it. Even better, a write-in option would incentivize us to look deeper into the hidden meanings of each update, as it would allow us to respond to whatever problems we discover by doing so.

the fact I don't describe everyone's wealth by shoes for example
This implies that there's a more obvious way that you're describing the amount of wealth that magical girls (and maybe MB) have. I've been assuming that wealth is more or less correlated with power, and therefore time spent as a magical girl, but this implies that there's something else that will give us a more accurate reading. I'm guessing that is how much they're able to spend on items when we sell them? Which implies that Rose is pretty wealthy, since she was able to pay around 70 resources for a wand.
 
The big thing we need to do once the current crisis is over is housing. We have a lot of magical girls here, and not enough space to house them. For this, we should first build a staircase/elevator/whatever to the second floor, and then tell magical girls that they can get a room rent free for X weeks by clearing out that room. The second it's cleared out, it's theirs. This houses more girls without making us take actions and will eventually start giving us more resources as the free rent expires. Another option is that we could let a smaller number of girls stay rent free indefinitely, as long as they continue clearing out rooms. Basically, let them pay rent through labor. This would probably house people more slowly though, so I think the first option is better.

Another problem we need to fix is that MB will occasionally fall unconscious from exhaustion and overwork. We don't really know whether there even is an option to avoid this, unfortunately. The only thing we know would have helped is ending the crisis sooner by focusing the magical girls on gathering information, but that was many weeks ago, before we really knew that we were burning out. Allowing write-ins would be extremely helpful in this quest, as it would let us take breaks when we notice we're burning out and also allow us a way to actually organize girls to clear out the building in exchange for free rent, instead of just talking about how we need to do it. Even better, a write-in option would incentivize us to look deeper into the hidden meanings of each update, as it would allow us to respond to whatever problems we discover by doing so.
I am fully on-board with the Kolobok at this point, though I have to think more about the workshop-focus you suggest. It makes sense, but I also recall that focussing on any one thing of the given options is not good either. So yes to maybe quickly throwing out one or two more of those upgrades, but not more.

As for the quoted part... yeah, all of that sounds like good ideas, but it runs into the strict "no write-in"-regulation this Quest has.
 
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