Loyalty is its own Reward (A Traitor Legion Chapter Master Quest)

I would imagine the night lords to have the lowest fellowship average score out of all the legions. Hell, the world eaters and the alpha legion probably have a higher score since they at least had brotherhood, which the night lords never had. Of course, the word bearers would have the highest since their whole thing was being good with words. My guess is the average fellowship score would have been a two with few exceptions like Sevatar or Talos having a score comparable to Severus's or possibly higher. I also see Severus as a mirror of Talos and think it would be incredibly interesting should they met since they might know each other and Talos is still alive since Huron has yet to fall. Our chapter could even play a role in preventing their deaths. Rolling to see our chances of recruiting the War Sage as a chapter ancient.
That would not really make sense since Fellowship is also the Intimidation characteristic. Low Fellowship means you're pretty damn bad at scaring people. Low Willpower would be more likely. As for preventing Talos' death, he's still a Traitor and we're still Loyalists. Unless he has a sudden change of heart, which I doubt will ever happen, we won't be friends.

Also, I don't think that your roll actually does anything.
 
That would not really make sense since Fellowship is also the Intimidation characteristic. Low Fellowship means you're pretty damn bad at scaring people. Low Willpower would be more likely. As for preventing Talos' death, he's still a Traitor and we're still Loyalists. Unless he has a sudden change of heart, which I doubt will ever happen, we won't be friends.

Also, I don't think that your roll actually does anything.
It was just for fun. Ex. Rolling for how seriously you took that post. I just view fellowship as the diplomacy stat (empathy, persuasion, intimidation, charisma, etc...).
IronKnightofSilv threw 1 100-faced dice. Total: 2
2 2
 
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myrok +50 to fellowship
valzadai +50 to fellowship

I'm thinking about doing one omake per turn so after the start of turn 6 I will write another omake if that is ok.
 
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@ThunderOwl Do Nowalijki get assigned across different Companies and roles so as to earn a greater variety of experiences? Since currently they're all in the 7th and 6th Companies, but those are both Tactical Marine Companies. Once we get the 8th and 9th Companies will there be Nowalijki serving alongside Assault Marines and Devastator Marines as well?
 
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@ThunderOwl since I'm curious could we get the average night lords stats? Or at least what Severus could remember during the GC? I want to see how low that fellowship was.
5 in Perception and Agility, 3 in Willpower, a whopping 1 in fellowship (fellowship is intimidation only for speech checks) and 4 on the rest of stats.
@ThunderOwl Do Nowalijki get assigned across different Companies and roles so as to earn a greater variety of experiences? Since currently they're all in the 7th and 6th Companies, but those are both Tactical Marine Companies. Once we get the 8th and 9th Companies will there be Nowalijki serving alongside Assault Marines and Devastator Marines as well?
Nowalijki get assigned to reserve companies, which you only have the tacticals for now, when you get the 8th and 9th running, they will also be assigned there.
 
5 in Perception and Agility, 3 in Willpower, a whopping 1 in fellowship (fellowship is intimidation only for speech checks) and 4 on the rest of stats.
Oh my fucking God, our still-wet-behind-the-ears Mist Shrikes are overall better than the average Night Lord... holy fuck man, how did that Legion not just spontaneously combust? Sevatar must have had a fucking 11 in Strength for how hard he was carrying his team.

On an unrelated note, are full Battle Brothers still intended to go through the progression path of Devastator -> Assault -> Tactical or is it more of a free flow system?

Currently that's obviously not possible since we don't have the 8th and 9th Companies, but if we did what would be the case?
 
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Oh my fucking God, our still-wet-behind-the-ears Mist Shrikes are overall better than the average Night Lord... holy fuck man, how did that Legion not just spontaneously combust? Sevatar must have had a fucking 11 in Strength for how hard he was carrying his team.

For all that he hated his sons, Curze was a Primarch, and those ties were deep. Also, it's not like their jobs required them to be very pleasant. Even before Heresy the Night Lords were one of the "in case of emergency, break glass" legions, not unlike the early Space Wolves.
 
For all that he hated his sons, Curze was a Primarch, and those ties were deep. Also, it's not like their jobs required them to be very pleasant. Even before Heresy the Night Lords were one of the "in case of emergency, break glass" legions, not unlike the early Space Wolves.
It's mostly the "5 in Perception in Agility, 4 in everything besides W and F" that gets me. We're literally about to crack 6 Agility this turn and Toughness will probably hit 5 in 2 turns tops with Myrok's training. Our Chapter has only 4 people with more than 20 years of combat experience and it's already beating out the VIIIth Legion, which would have been doing work for over 2 centuries by the time of the Heresy.
 
Oh my fucking God, our still-wet-behind-the-ears Mist Shrikes are overall better than the average Night Lord... holy fuck man, how did that Legion not just spontaneously combust? Sevatar must have had a fucking 11 in Strength for how hard he was carrying his team.

Turns out the Legion who utilized fear tactics, forgone honor and any semblance of fighting opponents fairly, went after citizens and non combatants more then actual military targets and had little to no sense of brotherhood were not the best fighters.

Also yes Sevatar was one of the few things keeping that legion from devolving into the pit of scum they were so intent on becoming. Plus I think the fact we recruit pretty normal aspirants in contrast to the child criminals of Nostramo or whatever pit of horrors the Night Lords recruit from now helps.
 
Oh my fucking God, our still-wet-behind-the-ears Mist Shrikes are overall better than the average Night Lord... holy fuck man, how did that Legion not just spontaneously combust? Sevatar must have had a fucking 11 in Strength for how hard he was carrying his team.

On an unrelated note, are full Battle Brothers still intended to go through the progression path of Devastator -> Assault -> Tactical or is it more of a free flow system?

Currently that's obviously not possible since we don't have the 8th and 9th Companies, but if we did what would be the case?
Regarding the "Mist Shrikes>Night Lords" thing there are a couple of reasons. First, law of averages. Mist Shrikes are barely 700 guys, while the Night Lords are tens of thousands. Secondly, you have a much more decent workplace culture and stringent recruiting standards. Thirdly, I'm starting to think I've gone a little overboard with the training rolls.

As for the progression it is a more free flow system, for the sake of accounting.
 
Thirdly, I'm starting to think I've gone a little overboard with the training rolls.
Most RPG systems go a little overboard with the progression speed of the PCs. ;)

Here's something you could take into consideration if you want to rebalance the training rolls: the Argument From Equilibrium.

A Space Marine is in some sense slowly but constantly 'losing' skill to various kinds of decay: personal injuries to heal and compensate for, changes in chapter routine, being increasingly skilled is an increasing demand on training just to stay in shape and not get rusty, and so on. The higher total skill, the faster the decay is. We can model the loss as a percentage per year or per turn.
At some point, every Marine hits a point where training does not give more skill, only cancels out skill decay. This is the equilibrium they will drift towards as long-term veterans. (A few characters might be exceptional even beyond this.) One-off Xp awards will only temporarily go over this, and then wear off as decay outspeeds training.
So to work out how fast training speed/skill decay should be, you could start with the softcap of how high stats are in the equilibrium, and work from there.
Let me suppose, for example, that it's 7 in all characteristics. (WS BS S T P A I W F.) This would take a total of about 25000 xp to get to, starting from zero.
Then there's two ways to calculate:
1) Decide on decay first. If a veteran marine is losing 1% of 25K per turn to decay, that means about -250xp a turn at the equilibrium, so training should be worth about +250xp a turn. (New marines with lower stats are still getting +250xp while only decaying like -100 a turn, 1% of their 10K.)
2) Decide on training first. For example, last turn Average Marine got +450xp, so the decay should be -450 at 25K. Scale down correspondingly, current marines with 10K would have -180xp to decay.
 
stringent recruiting standards

It is said that compared to the mass of press-ganged recruits of the Great Crusade, modern 40th Millennium Astartes are overall better trained than the average Legionnaire (This is discounting Legendary heroes like Sigismund, Khârn or the aforementioned Sevatar). Better psycho-indoctritation, more stringest recruiting standards, and the importance of quality over quantity that the Legions had.

But still... yeah, the system needs some sort of 'cap' where training merely hastened the average standards from 'average' to 'good'. Like 5, or 6 at most for the truly dedicated cases (World Eaters with their Weapon Skills importance and Death Guard with their Toughness). 7 and 8 is the realm of Captains and masters.

9 and 10 is the domain of Primarchs and some Phoenix Lords.
 
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While power creep could be an issue, I am not too sure about skill decay. Space Marines are super soldiers crafted by the fucking Emperor himself to conquer the entire galaxy. They are not simple mortals. Just like the Primarchs, there are warp shenanigans involved that allow the Space Marines to do feats that are otherwise impossible for a mortal to do. Not to mention the fact that they supposedly have perfect recall on top of everything else.
 
For a suggestion maybe adding some more Master of Recruits options besides train this stat for this turn?

Been awhile but I'm pretty sure in Glory and Death they just stop having the train stat option altogether halfway through.
 
For a suggestion maybe adding some more Master of Recruits options besides train this stat for this turn?

Been awhile but I'm pretty sure in Glory and Death they just stop having the train stat option altogether halfway through.
Kinda, what happened halfway through, was that the training cycle for the chapter just got scrapped and instead got replaced with an EXP system for each of the 10 companies, with some stats changing between one per turn, with some rising high to 5 or 6 in one particular stat, before the losses of 2 dozen or more marines cutting down on that stat or another stat in its place.

Anyway, in regards to the training fear, I would think the exp drain from having suffered loss of marines from the chapter, and adding that as a rebuff for our chapter to experience as a whole, is already fine enough as it were. Especially as any stat we can try and raise, caps at a 6 in it until something bad happens with our marines. But it wouldn't be that bad of an idea, to have a couple more options opened up for the purpose of allowing our Master of recruits, to also be able to focus on training up or dealing with issues cropping up in our various notables and hero's.

Because if their is a vote option that would allow Myriok to go and have a talk with one of honourguard that is still suffering from the revelation of our background, I guarantee that it is going to be picked over raising up another stat that we need to pick up.
 
their is a vote option that would allow Myriok to go and have a talk with one of honourguard that is still suffering from the revelation of our background, I guarantee that it is going to be picked over raising up another stat that we need to pick up.
Considering how shit his Fellowship is I wouldn't be so sure.
 
Thirdly, I'm starting to think I've gone a little overboard with the training rolls.
I think it's just that we've been training up our lowest stats or stats which have a lot of "in-the-field" experience already built up, which makes progress seem faster than normal. Unless I'm mistaken, compared to most Chapters the Mist Shrikes are still noticeably lacking and playing catch-up.
It is said that compared to the mass of press-ganged recruits of the Great Crusade, modern 40th Millennium Astartes are overall better trained than the average Legionnaire (This is discounting Legendary heroes like Sigismund, Khârn or the aforementioned Sevatar). Better psycho-indoctritation, more stringest recruiting standards, and the importance of quality over quantity that the Legions had.

But still... yeah, the system needs some sort of 'cap' where training merely hastened the average standards from 'average' to 'good'. Like 5, or 6 at most for the truly dedicated cases (World Eaters with their Weapon Skills importance and Death Guard with their Toughness). 7 and 8 is the realm of Captains and masters.

9 and 10 is the domain of Primarchs and some Phoenix Lords.
That's not how the system is supposed to work. A 4 in a given stat is where a Space Marine is expected to be pretty much by default, before even adding in a gene-line's given bonuses. It's why I was so shocked at the Night Lords' stats: they are literally at the bare minimum for what you'd expect of them in most of their characteristics and absolute garbage in a couple others (W and F). Explicitly, 9 and 10 are meant to be rare but ultimately achievable for Space Marines.
While power creep could be an issue, I am not too sure about skill decay. Space Marines are super soldiers crafted by the fucking Emperor himself to conquer the entire galaxy. They are not simple mortals. Just like the Primarchs, there are warp shenanigans involved that allow the Space Marines to do feats that are otherwise impossible for a mortal to do. Not to mention the fact that they supposedly have perfect recall on top of everything else.
Yeah, "skill decay" doesn't make sense because they are always training to keep themselves sharp even when they're not in battle. Hell, that's what Chapter fatalities are supposed to do anyway. Lose a lot of guys and you lose a lot of your collective abilities which then need to be built back up. It's one of the primary benefits of even having a Death World as a recruiting world in the first place: that you retain more experience points in the face of Astartes deaths. If you just automatically degrade over time, what's even the point?
Anyway, in regards to the training fear, I would think the exp drain from having suffered loss of marines from the chapter, and adding that as a rebuff for our chapter to experience as a whole, is already fine enough as it were. Especially as any stat we can try and raise, caps at a 6 in it until something bad happens with our marines. But it wouldn't be that bad of an idea, to have a couple more options opened up for the purpose of allowing our Master of recruits, to also be able to focus on training up or dealing with issues cropping up in our various notables and hero's.
It may not even cap at 6, it could cap at 5 for some. Mind you, part of why we're raising some of our characteristics so quickly is because they are (or were) incredibly low. Raising a characteristic from 5 to 6 will take almost as much experience as raising a characteristic from 2 to 4. Another aspect is that we've been doing a lot of deployments where those stats are used, which in turn provides additional experience. Our Agility was pretty much always in use, which is why it had 180 experience points built up even before we did a training action for it. Raising something like Perception or Intelligence will be much harder because they are used far less often and thus will rarely get experience from practical application.
 
It is said that compared to the mass of press-ganged recruits of the Great Crusade, modern 40th Millennium Astartes are overall better trained than the average Legionnaire (This is discounting Legendary heroes like Sigismund, Khârn or the aforementioned Sevatar). Better psycho-indoctritation, more stringest recruiting standards, and the importance of quality over quantity that the Legions had.

But still... yeah, the system needs some sort of 'cap' where training merely hastened the average standards from 'average' to 'good'. Like 5, or 6 at most for the truly dedicated cases (World Eaters with their Weapon Skills importance and Death Guard with their Toughness). 7 and 8 is the realm of Captains and masters.

9 and 10 is the domain of Primarchs and some Phoenix Lords.
I've seen that in the past, and it makes sense.

The old Legions were "roughly gene compatable, go suit up", because they had a hella attrition rate. Remember, they were going up against a lot of stuff from Old Night, nasty shit. Rangdans, High Riders, you name it. Lots of stuff.

So they'd lose a company or two but eh, they can be easily replaced.

However, with the Codex limiting them to 1K, and the trauma of the Heresy, the Loyalists got very specific about who they'd take. A lot more emphasis on mindset, truly being compatible, and so on.
 
I've seen that in the past, and it makes sense.

The old Legions were "roughly gene compatable, go suit up", because they had a hella attrition rate. Remember, they were going up against a lot of stuff from Old Night, nasty shit. Rangdans, High Riders, you name it. Lots of stuff.

So they'd lose a company or two but eh, they can be easily replaced.

However, with the Codex limiting them to 1K, and the trauma of the Heresy, the Loyalists got very specific about who they'd take. A lot more emphasis on mindset, truly being compatible, and so on.

Yeah, especially when the Guard as we know it in 40k was a shadow of a shadow in the 30th millenium. When you don't have a pile of meat-shields to take the brunt of most conflicts, casualties will be very high for astartes. It's not like they had to worry about that though when they had an infinite supply of geneseed from their Primarchs, something 40k marines won't have until Guilliman and the Lion reappear.
 
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