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LokiQuest: Re-Reshape and Retry (CK2)

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Darkcore41 said:
never said it doesn't require math, I said it doesn't require us to specialize in math. Besides why do you assume that the science field doesn't have the math needed tolled in to it. Or that Loki isn't learning math in school. Please explain to me why you think the Asguardians are so stupid that math isn't in the curriculum?
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*Takes a deep breath*

Look dude, I've repeatedly taken the stance that my choice of Math is not only for "can help other skills" but for the more ephemeral sense of "walking before we run" and "building foundational skills".

Furthermore, scientific disciplines such as physics are almost entirely math.

And frankly, if the QM had presented a more general "basic schooling/knowledge" item next to the shinies of "MAGIC" and "TECHNOLOGY", I don't trust that the thread wouldn't still push it to the side with the same line of argumentation.
 
Sena Kumo said:
Doesn't Programming fall in Technology?
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Why do you think I'm so livid at the whole science needing math to be a seperate thing to it despite it making no goddamn sense that math wouldn't already be part of science. If we can make super advanced tech than by sheer logic you would need to know math to get that far. Hence why the hell isn't it just part of the science skill instead of a separate thing? Though it's also that it spawned this whole argument that seems really stupid when you consider that even though we can just rely on science which would literally let us create super advanced tech. We didn't need math last quest so this just seems like a really horrible design implement.

Especially how a freaking prince of Asgard shouldn't need to pick math to learn it if he's being taught at it school.
 
Red Bovine said:
Show of hands. Who here thinks that things like math should just be already part of skills like science so that we don't need to have arguments like this all the time and to save headaches in the future?
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But it is. Science has the Math needed for Science in it. Math has more math in it. To make things requiring math even easier. Y'all just making this harder than it needs to be.

Also the Magic option is to learn about magic btw. Thought I should mention that. So you won't be getting points or spells, but a skill (Magic, which stands for knowledge of Magic). You have to awaken your Magic first to get anything and it was decided that you can't learn much from books earlier.
 
Nystical said:
Technology is knowledge put into practical use to solve problems or invent useful tools. The wheel is technology. A shovel is technology. In this case, the AI is the technology. Creating the AI in the traditional way (no soul magic or whatever) would require the knowledge: programming, which is based on/from math. As to how this relates to the quest, I would guess that mathematics would be related to unlocking that action to begin with.



We got like 8 skills maxed out (5/5) from just one action last quest.



[] Pay extra attention to your Classes and try to excel! DC 15
This is a learning action. It's DC will be reduced from having the Math skill.

Why are you even complaining about "pushing stewardship"? Did you forget that this whole idea of "not spreading ourselves thin" was based on the idea of not spreading our magic points thin, as in, not spreading our learning actions thin across many disciplines. Going into stewardship is something we can do simultaneously as we have both a stewardship and a learning action.
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The idea is to use stewardship for building academies or things like personal labs not trading which would use math. So it really wouldn't help as a forger. Not to mention that science and math have the same DC so using math to lower science DC doesnt make sense when you can pick the skill that isn't used on some of our projects but all.
KnightDisciple said:
*Takes a deep breath*

Look dude, I've repeatedly taken the stance that my choice of Math is not only for "can help other skills" but for the more ephemeral sense of "walking before we run" and "building foundational skills".

Furthermore, scientific disciplines such as physics are almost entirely math.

And frankly, if the QM had presented a more general "basic schooling/knowledge" item next to the shinies of "MAGIC" and "TECHNOLOGY", I don't trust that the thread wouldn't still push it to the side with the same line of argumentation.
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The math that science requires is in the skill of science already. The math here is more geared towards stewardship. If you truly wanted foundational items you would have chosen the general studies option. Also why are you so sure that the science skill isn't the foundational skill instead. I don't know why you are working on the assumption that we aren't learning math from school or from the skill science?
 
Nystical said:
Technology is knowledge put into practical use to solve problems or invent useful tools. The wheel is technology. A shovel is technology. In this case, the AI is the technology. Creating the AI in the traditional way (no soul magic or whatever) would require the knowledge: programming, which is based on/from math. As to how this relates to the quest, I would guess that mathematics would be related to unlocking that action to begin with.
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Creating a Wheel would require Math. Creating a Shovel would require Math. Creating a Portal that goes to paralel universes would require Math. Creating a Portable Device that tracks energy would require Math. Creating a Race Changing Machine would require Math.

Having 5/5=Being a master at Technology or Science would require a deep knowledge of Math.

Why would we specifically need to write that we should learn Math when being a Master of those 2 says enough?
 
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Honestly, I'd prefer more granularity in skills not less, I find it strange how simple it was for us to make world-changing technology so easily last game without training in specifically gathering those abilities. Because yeah nanites are so easy for someone to make as is a machine that changes an individual's biology. Especially without, well, gathering specialists for it.

Just cause Einstein is a genius doesn't mean you can put him in a group of non-epidemiologists confident he can construct a vaccine for something.

There is a difference between picking up basic math skills from classes, and actually enjoying and understanding math, the vote for math indicates an interest and a competency, that doesn't deny any other action going forward but certainly acts as a point in our favor with other choices down the line even if it doesn't help with literally everything. Combine this with it being not socially weird like say going for magic as a boy would be (we're still going to go down magic eventually but that doesn't mean we have to do it first thing).
 
really you guys are just putting the cart before the horse. You should get the core skills first and push it past 5 as soon as possible and get the complimetry stuff after growth phase is over.

Edit: We have what 8 turns before growth period is over. You want to max out science, technology, math, and magic before time runs out. Better hope for crites and no misses because I don't think it is possible.
 
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Nystical said:
We got like 8 skills maxed out (5/5) from just one action last quest.
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KnightDisciple said:
*Takes a deep breath*

Look dude, I've repeatedly taken the stance that my choice of Math is not only for "can help other skills" but for the more ephemeral sense of "walking before we run" and "building foundational skills".

Furthermore, scientific disciplines such as physics are almost entirely math.

And frankly, if the QM had presented a more general "basic schooling/knowledge" item next to the shinies of "MAGIC" and "TECHNOLOGY", I don't trust that the thread wouldn't still push it to the side with the same line of argumentation.
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But science already has math in it. I mean for gods sake last quest we didn't have the skill and we managed to create a knock off Omni Trix that realistically should have required an immense knowledge of math. So we don't really need to take math to get math since it's just getting more math skills. And no, it's not about the 'shinies' it's the opposite in fact. People are against math because it's so goddamn boring and people don't want to just min max but also have fun. I don't care about freaking numbers, I just want to go the blacksmith route and have fun with it.
 
ComiTurtle said:
Honestly, I'd prefer more granularity in skills not less, I find it strange how simple it was for us to make world-changing technology so easily last game without training in specifically gathering those abilities. Because yeah nanites are so easy for someone to make as is a machine that changes an individual's biology. Especially without, well, gathering specialists for it.

Just cause Einstein is a genius doesn't mean you can put him in a group of non-epidemiologists confident he can construct a vaccine for something.

There is a difference between picking up basic math skills from classes, and actually enjoying and understanding math, the vote for math indicates an interest and a competency, that doesn't deny any other action going forward but certainly acts as a point in our favor with other choices down the line even if it doesn't help with literally everything. Combine this with it being not socially weird like say going for magic as a boy would be (we're still going to go down magic eventually but that doesn't mean we have to do it first thing).
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For the unpopular opinion has it occured to you that if people cared much about realism that most people here wouldn't have bothered to play a quest where the setting is about space viking gods where magic and souls are real along with the multiverse where most places laugh at the laws of physics? Because really, if I wanted to focus on math I'd just have taken advanced math courses and become a mathematician.

Here is the thing, that kind of thing is freaking boring for most people.
 
Red Bovine said:
For the unpopular opinion has it occured to you that if people cared much about realism that most people here wouldn't have bothered to play a quest where the setting is about space viking gods where magic and souls are real along with the multiverse where most places laugh at the laws of physics? Because really, if I wanted to focus on math I'd just have taken advanced math courses and become a mathematician.

Here is the thing, that kind of thing is freaking boring for most people.
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I called it an unpopular opinion for a reason, so yes it did occur to me thank you for trying to insinuate I'm an idiot, and that my fun is wrong. :V
 
At this point math has pretty much ruined so much for me just by existing and being needlessly complicated that I just fuck it. Fuck math and fuck science if people are going to make such a big deal about it. This argument about math is literally one of the most hated things about quests where people are quite literally focusing too much about numbers. So fuck the magic tech route since that requires science and science requires math.

I say just stick with the forging route. At least we will just stick to magic and people won't try to overly 'realistic' about it. I actually wanna have fun. Not constantly complain about numbers and taking things way too seriously.
 
ComiTurtle said:
I called it an unpopular opinion for a reason, so yes it did occur to me thank you for trying to insinuate I'm an idiot, and that my fun is wrong. :V
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The QM already explained that Loki is learning the math in the skill science so it isn't so unrealistic. Think of it as that skill is really statistics and the one in the science skill is calculus.
 
Sena Kumo said:
Less Wrong and more Boring.
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... What is the positive benefit of this post?

Kufufu said:
I...
It's the second turn, how have you all started mining salt already?!
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Honestly, I don't know. I was on the lets make friends we're 6 route, and there was some arguments against making friends before we know everything about other 6 year-olds. Then we got into an argument about what library books we read, and there is a lead for Math, but a strong anti-math group. And things have just developed as if the world is already ending somehow.
 
Kufufu said:
I...
It's the second turn, how have you all started mining salt already?!
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People needlessly over complicated things. Some people didn't want math because they thought it was boring and just wanted to have some fun with their planned choice, I.E. blacksmith route, only for some people overplay it's importance to the point that the QM pretty much states that people are making it more complicated than it needs to be.
 
Nystical said:
Hmm, how about instead of forging, we become Professor Loki. Have a fresh cup of coffee in the morning. Prepare lesson plans. Teach a few classes. Grade papers. Make sure no one is cheating during exams or copying someone else's work.
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I really hope you aren't serious because that just seems incredibly wasteful for this quests potential.
 
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