Lets Read: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War

There's a sort of wierd desire whenever you have a slow attritional enemy in fiction to fight them from a series of static positions. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. You would just bound backwards and continue to create space between you and the horde and cut it to bits.
It would honestly make way more sense to just do bounding overwatch than the whole static position bit and you could even do a bunch of military wank while you were at it but, idk, if that was done it would become obvious the zombies aren't actually that threatening or something so it doesn't happen.
 
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Also, while we're talking about the Junta's military structures, the VA is...weirdly effective. They could have found all kinds of ways to exclude people who fought the Zeds from compensation or aid. I have symptoms deriving from acute radiation poisoning, and I was shot in the spine, but I didn't have a rank so they could have easily told me to get stuffed. Instead, they gave me a genuinely nice sport wheelchair and a lifetime of treatment.

Everyone I know got VA shit, and for a genuinely shocking number of conditions.

It might be the only good thing about the Junta, and it's mostly because the pre-war VA was so bad that they saw the propaganda value in putting in the effort. It was the DeStrEs guy's idea, mostly because the DeStrEs guy wanted to have influence on the military. At least, I think that's what happened. It was a gimme for the Junta and for that spider inside of it.

I cannot stress enough how thankful I am for the VA, but it's the way it is for PR, militarism, and centralization of power reasons, not out of some set of good ideals at the top. Sure, the doctors work hard, and they often mean well, but even the VA is a tool of the American war machine.

A good VA keeps the troops from complaining. It keeps the DeStrEs guy able to influence the people with guns. It makes people feel loyalty to the state, and that they're taken care of. It elevates the role of the military and creates an implicit sense of value for that job. Most of all, it makes declaring war easier if people know they'll have trained nurses and quality staff tending to their wounds—rather than the bone-saw seen so commonly during the war.
 
They would fight until the very end because, unlike us, every single one of them, every second of every day, was devoted to consuming all life on Earth
I mean... this isn't true? In practice, they mostly stand around, maybe shamble aimlessly. Zombies don't make any active effort to 'consume all life on earth', they attack prey that comes near and spend most of their time doing literally nothing.
(And they don't seem to care about plants.)

Which, somewhat related to the whole 'they don't have any coordination and that's an advantage' bit.
A threat that is always ready to fight, but has no initiative, that has no coordination, but never breaks, that is easy to outmaneuver but difficult to root out...

That's not an army, that's a minefield. Demining is difficult and dangerous but it's not a 'war'. Likewise, fighting the zombies... there's not really any chance the reclamation will lose the initiative. If some element fucks up disastrously and gets annihilated, it's not like the zombies will take advantage of that. On the other hand, an army can be defeated, can be weakened such that it can no longer achieve its objectives and goes to ground. A minefield can only be cleared. I have no idea what to make of that, but it's... something.

with our vehicles and whatnot in the center.
Hmm. Are they planning to use the vehicles for a breakout? That... might not be *totally* insane, except for the whole 'NEVER RETREAT' thing. If not, I'm wondering why they aren't on top of them or using them as a barricade.

Bags of rubble made of kevlar. Why are they made of kevlar?
If I had a reliable supply of kevlar, I would say 'so that the bags don't break from pointy bits of rubble/rough handling/being clawed by zombies and collapse the wall', but... given the US doesn't seem to have a reliable supply of kevlar... yeah use layered canvas or something. Possibly heavier and not quite as tough but it'll do.

Honestly insane. The USA could barely stomach casualties from Iraq and Afghanistan at their peaks, Taking such insane casualities is so foreign to the US psyche as to be genuinely untenable.
That was, to be fair, after the US took such insane casualties. The majority of people died.

And you know, the government loves to talk about how the Army didn't take a single casualty at Hope.
Yes, the doctrine described sounds like a guarantee that their units will be in one of two states: Fine or Annihilated.

It's just—this is not how light infantry works! In any military system with a reason to distinguish between light and heavy infantry, light infantry has a mobility advantage, and any remotely successful army is going to use that advantage. Skirmishers or flanking units or just...anything except standing in one place and shooting.
Max Brooks is, perhaps, something weirder than a light infantry fetishist.
A heavy infantry fetishist (Napoleonic Edition).

The Infantry Square is designed for all around defense against an enemy far more mobile than you. It kind of makes sense against Fast Zombies I guess, but not against slow.
It's... I mean, against an enemy surrounding you, you don't really have many options other than a square. The zombies being slow won't make the square *less* effective. It's just that the question of 'what formation should I adopt against a numerically superior surrounding force that is still slower than us' is best answered by 'fucking don't'
 
Also, while we're talking about the Junta's military structures, the VA is...weirdly effective. They could have found all kinds of ways to exclude people who fought the Zeds from compensation or aid. I have symptoms deriving from acute radiation poisoning, and I was shot in the spine, but I didn't have a rank so they could have easily told me to get stuffed. Instead, they gave me a genuinely nice sport wheelchair and a lifetime of treatment.

Everyone I know got VA shit, and for a genuinely shocking number of conditions.

It might be the only good thing about the Junta, and it's mostly because the pre-war VA was so bad that they saw the propaganda value in putting in the effort. It was the DeStrEs guy's idea, mostly because the DeStrEs guy wanted to have influence on the military. At least, I think that's what happened. It was a gimme for the Junta and for that spider inside of it.

I cannot stress enough how thankful I am for the VA, but it's the way it is for PR, militarism, and centralization of power reasons, not out of some set of good ideals at the top. Sure, the doctors work hard, and they often mean well, but even the VA is a tool of the American war machine.

A good VA keeps the troops from complaining. It keeps the DeStrEs guy able to influence the people with guns. It makes people feel loyalty to the state, and that they're taken care of. It elevates the role of the military and creates an implicit sense of value for that job. Most of all, it makes declaring war easier if people know they'll have trained nurses and quality staff tending to their wounds—rather than the bone-saw seen so commonly during the war.

what's the WIA to KIA ratio? Ghouls tend to either kill you or never touch you, and I don't think they had very good field medicine in the fights against other humans. This is dark to say, but the reason they might be able to pull off a very good VA is that there are simply not that many vets where casualties but not fatalities.
 
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what's the WIA to KIA ratio? Ghouls tend to either kill you or never touch you, and I don't think they had very good field medicine in the fights against other humans. This is dark to say, but the reason they might be able to pull off a very good VA is that there are simply not that many vets where casualties but not fatalities.

I still think it's impressive on a logistical scale, but you are definitely right that the high levels of KIAs compared to WIAs made it much easier, especially during the war. I will say that modern state-on-state conflict increasingly looks more like pre-war conflict, so we might see more WIAs in the future as wound treating techniques and the like manage to catch up.
 
It's a well-known fact that zombies, in the absence of human prey, will hunt animals. It's easier for small creatures such as birds and mammals to escape - rodents did well, as did many species of bird. Many species of large mammals on the other hand were decimated.
 
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It's a well-known fact that zombies, in the absence of human prey, will hunt animals. It's easier for small creatures such as birds and mammals to escape - rodents did well, as did many species of bird. Many species of large mammals on the other hand were decimated.
Are those stories about zombie cows and zombie lions real? They sounded pretty bullshit to me.
 
Light infantry hard men fighting for 15 hours then ruckmarching for ~2.5 hours.
If there's not a line saying they arrived at 6:30 AM, that's a generous estimate. 10 miles in 150 minutes is four miles per hour; the rule of thumb I hear for average human walk speed is 3 mph. If the entire unit can't jog for multiple hours without breaks, we're looking at three hours, minimum. And realistically, they would need breaks—not just because men got tired, though they would, but because of obstructions (broken-down vehicles in the road, undead stragglers, etc). Also you'd need to add extra time for a bunch of assorted organizational stuff, to make sure everyone's in their unit and nobody gets lost, but you could argue that that shouldn't count because most of that happens before the march and not during it.

Ten miles is a pretty easy drive, but it's a long walk.

Also, it's not just a terrible static defense doctrine, it's static defense without even preparing the ground before. How hard would it be to just dig a trench (or better, a series of trenches that you can keep digging behind your position as they fill up) before luring a chain swarm in?
God, yeah. All but the worst-organized armies dug trenches. Hell, even the Army of Flanders dug trenches, and I've seen that used as a golden standard for poorly-organized armies.

"Military success determined by aesthetics" is the perfect way to describe it.


There's a sort of wierd desire whenever you have a slow attritional enemy in fiction to fight them from a series of static positions. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. You would just bound backwards and continue to create space between you and the horde and cut it to bits.
To be fair, static defenses and mobile warfare are not mutually exclusive. Look at trenches from the back end of the first World War, after almost everyone figured out how it was going to work; there were multiple layers of trench, with additional channels between them so soldiers could fall back or counterattack as necessary.

That's obviously not what's going on here. I'd compare Brooks's tactics in this section to tower defense games, but that's unfair; he doesn't even have his soldiers build elevated firing platforms or channel the zombies down a predictable path.


That's not an army, that's a minefield.
Good analogy.

Yes, the doctrine described sounds like a guarantee that their units will be in one of two states: Fine or Annihilated.
Fine or Finely-Diced

It's... I mean, against an enemy surrounding you, you don't really have many options other than a square. The zombies being slow won't make the square *less* effective. It's just that the question of 'what formation should I adopt against a numerically superior surrounding force that is still slower than us' is best answered by 'fucking don't'
I mean, yes, I guess that's true. But Brooks doesn't seem to understand what an infantry square was for. Its only purpose is that it stops the enemy from flanking you, because a square has no flank.

Being flanked is a big risk when fighting cavalry, but zombies aren't small, fast units. They're slow, dumb, and numerous; they're unlikely to attack your flank unless they're attacking your entire line. The threat isn't being flanked, it's being overrun, and if you don't have fortifications or something, an infantry square is a strictly inferior tactical option to walking away before you get overrun.
 
I didn't know there was an equivalent to Confedaboos for the Union. I could have gone my whole life without that knowledge. Dang.
Ever seen reenactors?

I knew a few of them. Straight up the weirdest people I have ever known.
Reading this, I wonder how the hell the Americans managed to clear out their cities with brass that incompetent.

I spent the first and last two years of the war in Paris, and even though it's, well, Paris, didn't American cities have lots of books and crannies and subways ?
Or maybe that's just NY, I don't know much about US urban architecture.
Can't speak for every city, but it was definitely tough with the older cities - I heard about Boston secondhand, but it made me glad to only deal with a fraction of Boston's bullshit (namely: built on hills, and with old, illogical, narrow and twisty streets that could dead-end you at the worst time) when my sisters and I were a part of the efforts to contain/curb the zack populations in Syracuse (and later, Rochester) 3-4 years in. It would have been a complete shitshow if we didn't have locals who knew the nooks and alleyways, and even then...

Still have nightmares about the Rochester subway every once in a while. Not because it was a labyrinth (it's not) or because it was particularly difficult to clear out the zacks in there (it wasn't) - it's that enough people knew about it, and thought it could be a refuge, a redoubt that others wouldn't know about or think to go to...and it wasn't until they got too far in to get away from the ones who had been there before them, that they'd discover the nature of their error. It was fucking bleak, man, going through remains of group after remains of group after remains of family group...

Anyway, it's worth pointing out that a lot of these cities had native or neighboring populations who'd managed the worst of the swarms, and I'd heard of some that were completely clear; Ithaca is the only one I know about for sure, because I was in and around there for most of the war. By the time they made it to Western NY, the junta already had a lot of their work done for them...if one presumes "clearing zack" was actually their intended work (and not, y'know, "clearing us.") And, well, those aforementioned nooks and crannies are the only reason my sister and I were able to get out.
 
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... Right. If my sister ever talks to me again. If she doesn't do the stubborn holding a grudge almost as badly I can do?

I need to apologise to her for getting her World War Z as a book. She's into Zombies but ... Llamas on a pogo stick. Looking at this as an adult with an objective Let's Read ... Note to self: World War Z is beyond terrible.
 
IC: As a viet
Dang
Global ghoul outreak
The death of american democracy and the american empire

And somehow the Lost Causers of the Nam War are still around. Just how. Somehow more enduring than ghouls. Bro your empire is dead and worse off than ever before.
 
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Our staple ammo was the NATO 5.56 "Cherry PIE." PIE stands for pyrotechnically initiated explosive. Outstanding design. It would shatter on entry into Zack's skull and fragments would fry its brain. No risk of spreading infected gray matter, and no need for wasteful bonfires.


Dangerous and costly. A Cherry PIE round can blow your hand off if you fat finger it. Add to that the fact that they're pricy little buggers, and you can probably tell why it was only the Americans who ever bought in. Turns out when you're offering people a bullet full of white phosphorus, they tend to smile politely and refuse.

Attention forklift jockeys: please don't leave pallets of these out in the sun.

Concertainer is fucking idiotic, by the way. Bags of rubble made of kevlar. Why are they made of kevlar? Couldn't tell you, honestly. Backhanders to DeStrRes, maybe.

Well, it was more portable than steel and concrete. Easier to set up and tear down, too.

The American military took 20% casualties in their push to the Eastern Seaboard - one in five people who put on the uniform died in it. Three million US Army soldiers perished in this campaign.

There's a significant and measurable differences between 'casualties' and 'fatalities.' Ditto that for 'recoverable' versus 'irrecoverable' casualties. Our psych-casualties were almost always classified as 'recoverable,' and they made up most of our out-of-combat losses.

Most of the remainder were the inevitable result of supporting three Army Groups across 2000 miles of territory - the distance between the Rockies and the Atlantic. Transcontinental campaigns present unique challenges - logistics and engineering works very differently on the operational and strategic scales than they do the tactical. If a given unit depleted its ammunition and was overrun, this was usually the reason.

(And if you dreamed of a long and prosperous employment within DeStRes, you got very good at explaining why it was the officers on the sharp end who needed to stop outrunning the supply lines and slow down, and not the REMFs chasing the frontline forces who needed to keep up.)

Also, while we're talking about the Junta's military structures, the VA is...weirdly effective. They could have found all kinds of ways to exclude people who fought the Zeds from compensation or aid. I have symptoms deriving from acute radiation poisoning, and I was shot in the spine, but I didn't have a rank so they could have easily told me to get stuffed. Instead, they gave me a genuinely nice sport wheelchair and a lifetime of treatment.

Everyone I know got VA shit, and for a genuinely shocking number of conditions.

It might be the only good thing about the Junta, and it's mostly because the pre-war VA was so bad that they saw the propaganda value in putting in the effort. It was the DeStrEs guy's idea, mostly because the DeStrEs guy wanted to have influence on the military. At least, I think that's what happened. It was a gimme for the Junta and for that spider inside of it.

Yeah, we're nice like that.

When we were laying out plans for post-war reconstruction, our white papers were basically a greatest hits album of historical successes - from the Marhsal Plan to the Wirtschaftswunder to - in this case - the Beveridge Report. Most of our policy choices, at least as they related to national systems of healthcare, were inspired by Britain's post-WW2 experiences. That's why it's quasi-universal.
 
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In Canada you would not have easy access the stuff that's even sub automatic, and the survivor communities wouldn't probably have anything better than to start off with hunting rifles, cowboy guns or Chinese stuff that could be sub automatic and America didn't want for dumb reasons, but can easily imagine they would do better the having these SIR rifles.
 
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Are those stories about zombie cows and zombie lions real? They sounded pretty bullshit to me.
If solanum could infect non-humans it would be a widespread and widely documented phenomenon. I mean, think about it; if big cats like lions could become zombies then so could small cats, and there are so many god damn housecats in existence across the whole world that it would be very very obvious if there are swarms of ghoulified versions of them running around. Same goes for cows, they're too populous and found everywhere for it to not be readily apparent if ghoul versions of them exist.

The only rumor about zombie animals I ever found remotely credible were the ones about great apes. They're our close genetic relatives so solanum managing to make the species jump sounded believable, and they're uncommon enough for me to buy the idea that their ghouls would be largely undocumented during the 'war.' By this point though, there'd be proof of them if they were real.

So yeah, I think you have more to worry about in regards to a bigfoot ghoul than a lion or cow ghoul.
 
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Are those stories about zombie cows and zombie lions real? They sounded pretty bullshit to me.
I can completely confirm that zombie cows are bullshit, pun intended. The virus only raises humans, which makes about as much sense as anything else about the thing. However, a zed will absolutely pick a cow clean if you let them, and provided they could catch one. I don't know about the rest of the world, and how animal life faired there. But at least in my experience, there isn't an animal alive that doesn't outright fear the zeds just as much as we do. Just about any animal will either fight or run, and cows, despite them being some of the most brain-damaged domesticated animals around, are no different. Though a simple fence is enough to keep them in, so you tend to find fields of cow skeletons just picked dry if you head out into western Kansas.

Still, it's not pretty to see, though a cow will start putting up a fuss if one gets too close.

Same likely goes for lions. If it didn't get cats, then it isn't getting lions, either. And given how many housecats there were? We'd be drowning in the damn things otherwise. Same for any other animal. If zombie animals were a thing, then Zed probably would have won a long time ago, no matter where you went.
 
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The whole battle of Hope being basically an unsupported Napoleonic square with we-have-Garands-at-home vs a major city's worth of zombies infuriates me now. Seriously, zombies walk in straight lines towards targets, how is that not a perfect situation for some A-10s to brrrt a good chunk of the horde before they get close to the infantry? And no artillery? I know that WWZ zombies are immune to overpressure, but since apparently weaponizing and mass-producing a fucking shovel is on the table, it wouldn't be hard to jury rig some shrapnel canisters for modern artillery.

Honestly, reading about a full arsenal assault on a horde would be a lot more engaging, imo, and a lot more inspirational in universe since apparently people watching lasers melt zombie heads literally keeps them from dying of despair.

Imagine, as the infantry deploy, CAS sweeps overhead and brrrts the vanguard of the horde. Undead blood and everywhere viscera. Artillery opens up, popping crowds of heads before the infantry can see them, and when/if the tattered horde reached the line, actual modern weapons - not ones pulled from WWII, because I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to keep making modern guns than rejiggering the entire gunmaking industry to make wish.com Garands - and you can hear the new disciplined army dissect the horde in detail.

Sounds better to me as a propaganda "we have our shit together" move than unsupported infantry challenging hundreds of thousands with WWII guns.

Seriously, the only problem the book presents the US armed forces with is logistics, which is like the one thing that we actually have figured out irl.
 
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The whole battle of Hope being basically an unsupported Napoleonic square with we-have-Garands-at-home vs a major city's worth of zombies infuriates me now. Seriously, zombies walk in straight lines towards targets, how is that not a perfect situation for some A-10s to brrrt a good chunk of the horde before they get close to the infantry? And no artillery? I know that WWZ zombies are immune to overpressure, but since apparently weaponizing and mass-producing a fucking shovel is on the table, it wouldn't be hard to jury rig some shrapnel canisters for modern artillery.

Honestly, reading about a full arsenal assault on a horde would be a lot more engaging, imo, and a lot more inspirational in universe since apparently people watching lasers melt zombie heads literally keeps them from dying of despair.

Imagine, as the infantry deploy, CAS sweeps overhead and brrrts the vanguard of the horde. Undead blood and everywhere viscera. Artillery opens up, popping crowds of heads before the infantry can see them, and when/if the tattered horde reached the line, actual modern weapons - not ones pulled from WWII, because I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to keep making modern guns than rejiggering the entire gunmaking industry to make wish.com Garands - and you can hear the new disciplined army dissect the horde in detail.

Sounds better to me as a propaganda "we have our shit together" move than unsupported infantry challenging hundreds of thousands with WWII guns.

Seriously, the only problem the book presents the US armed forces with is logistics, which is like the one thing that we actually have figured out irl.

Resource-to-kill ratio. CAS and artillery are expensive, and can bring a fragile war economy to its knees for frankly limited returns. Rifles are all you really need, as long as the ammunition holds out, to annihilate chain swarms wholesale.
 
Resource-to-kill ratio. CAS and artillery are expensive, and can bring a fragile war economy to its knees for frankly limited returns. Rifles are all you really need, as long as the ammunition holds out, to annihilate chain swarms wholesale.

The entire West Coast + Rockies is totally mobilized in a way not seen since WWII, I doubt that the war economy is so fragile that it can't make bullets, shells, and replacement parts. You don't need new planes and artillery unless accidents occur, zombies have no AA and you should at least have some defenders for arty positions as a matter of principle, it's foolish to assume that pure infantry is the solution when you have total and complete air superiority and no chance of counter-battery.

And Re: resource to kill, Artillery and Air are important today, in a world with counters because they have positive resource to kill. I have no idea why zombies - who again have no counter measures to either - would entirely invalidate them.
 
I can completely confirm that zombie cows are bullshit, pun intended. The virus only raises humans, which makes about as much sense as anything else about the thing. However, a zed will absolutely pick a cow clean if you let them, and provided they could catch one. I don't know about the rest of the world, and how animal life faired there. But at least in my experience, there isn't an animal alive that doesn't outright fear the zeds just as much as we do. Just about any animal will either fight or run, and cows, despite them being some of the most brain-damaged domesticated animals around, are no different. Though a simple fence is enough to keep them in, so you tend to find fields of cow skeletons just picked dry if you head out into western Kansas.

Still, it's not pretty to see, though a cow will start putting up a fuss if one gets too close.

Same likely goes for lions. If it didn't get cats, then it isn't getting lions, either. And given how many housecats there were? We'd be drowning in the damn things otherwise. Same for any other animal. If zombie animals were a thing, then Zed probably would have won a long time ago, no matter where you went.
What animals are endangered and what ones are actually recovering now must be all over the place in wwz don't you think so?
 
The entire West Coast + Rockies is totally mobilized in a way not seen since WWII, I doubt that the war economy is so fragile that it can't make bullets, shells, and replacement parts. You don't need new planes and artillery unless accidents occur, zombies have no AA and you should at least have some defenders for arty positions as a matter of principle, it's foolish to assume that pure infantry is the solution when you have total and complete air superiority and no chance of counter-battery.

And Re: resource to kill, Artillery and Air are important today, in a world with counters because they have positive resource to kill. I have no idea why zombies - who again have no counter measures to either - would entirely invalidate them.

Totally mobilized or not, this is still a post-apocalyptic state we're talking about. It can make bullets, and could probably make shells and replacement parts. Maybe even enough for continued and sustained operations - though probably not.

Complete air superiority and no chance of counter battery are among the many disadvantages zombies posses. They also lack self-preservation instincts, and will march helpfully into the kill-zones of perfectly zeroed rifles.

RKR is not a matter of positive kill ratios. It's a doctrine of cost-effectiveness.
 
Resource-to-kill ratio. CAS and artillery are expensive, and can bring a fragile war economy to its knees for frankly limited returns. Rifles are all you really need, as long as the ammunition holds out, to annihilate chain swarms wholesale.
Guided munitions are expensive, tube artillery is not. Equipment as simple and cheap as foot-mortars would be a massive force multiplier, especially since the enemy can't take cover and will wander directly into pre-ranged killzones. Mortar shells aren't expensive at all, and neither is most non-guided ordnance for that matter.

Totally mobilized or not, this is still a post-apocalyptic state we're talking about. It can make bullets, and could probably make shells and replacement parts. Maybe even enough for continued and sustained operations - though probably not.

Complete air superiority and no chance of counter battery are among the many disadvantages zombies posses. They also lack self-preservation instincts, and will march helpfully into the kill-zones of perfectly zeroed rifles.

RKR is not a matter of positive kill ratios. It's a doctrine of cost-effectiveness.
Those same kill-zones also work for extremely cost effective light artillery which can be fired beyond visual range, negating the danger of being overrun. You can create a chain-swarm from something like a helicopter dropping noisemakers and luring tens of thousands of zombies into a pre-ranged target area, then just fly away and start killing from beyond visual range. It requires an order of magnitude less manpower, the zombies likely won't even be able to detect the artillery from its firing position, and you don't have the risk of being eaten alive because you can just pack up and leave before a swarm gets close enough to be a danger.

Speaking of ammunition and cost-effectiveness, I really don't think that giving every single infantryman magic incendiary 5.56 PIE rounds is more cost effective than making some dumb artillery shells. How do you square that, or making every infantryman an orc battleaxe, with cost-effectiveness?
 
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Well, it was more portable than steel and concrete. Easier to set up and tear down, too.
Same is true for sandbags made out of burlap. vM asked why the bags were made out of kevlar, not why they used bags of rubble instead of steel or concrete.


Resource-to-kill ratio. CAS and artillery are expensive, and can bring a fragile war economy to its knees for frankly limited returns. Rifles are all you really need, as long as the ammunition holds out, to annihilate chain swarms wholesale.
You don't need anything more than a spoon to dig a trench, but armies waste resources on shovels. That's because using shovels saves other valuable resources, like time and energy.

Even if we accept that it takes more resources to kill a bunch of zombies with mortars than rifles—and I'm not convinced that this is true—it could easily pay for itself by minimizing the risk of being overrun.


Those same kill-zones also work for extremely cost effective light artillery which can be fired beyond visual range, negating the danger of being overrun. You can create a chain-swarm from something like a helicopter dropping noisemakers and luring tens of thousands of zombies into a pre-ranged target area, then just fly away and start killing from beyond visual range.
Hell, you might not even need the helicopter. Explosions are awful noisy on their own.

(Might still be helpful, if you have the spare chopper. Though the noisemakers would need to out-noise the helicopter flying back to base...)
 
Are those stories about zombie cows and zombie lions real? They sounded pretty bullshit to me.

As far as we know the zombie virus does not work on animals; there have been no confirmed reports of zombified animals and all tests regarding the purposeful infection of animals with the zombie virus has ended in death without reanimation; there are reports of infected great apes but these are pretty unsubtantiated. The current scientific consensus is that the zombie virus evolved specifically to infect humans.
 
Guided munitions are expensive, tube artillery is not. Equipment as simple and cheap as foot-mortars would be a massive force multiplier, especially since the enemy can't take cover and will wander directly into pre-ranged killzones. Mortar shells aren't expensive at all, and neither is most non-guided ordenance for that matter.

Those same kill-zones also work for extremely cost effective light artillery which can be fired beyond visual range, negating the danger of being overrun. You can create a chain-swarm from something like a helicopter dropping noisemakers and luring tens of thousands of zombies into a pre-ranged target area, then just fly away and start killing from beyond visual range. It requires an order of magnitude less manpower, the zombies likely won't even be able to detect the artillery from its firing position, and you don't have the risk of being eaten alive because you can just pack up and leave before a swarm gets close enough to be a danger.

I don't think mortar fire was prohibited to use, or even necessarily inefficient. It just wasn't the done thing.

Canonically, the only time late-war infantry feared being truly overrun was facing a swarm of 1,000,000+ zombies - the battle of Comerica Park/Ford Field. And they still managed that one, in the end.

So, if your force was about to face more than that, it probably would be a good idea to thin it out from range, or from the air.

Or employ some divide-and-conqueror tactics. There's no rule that says you have to face them all in one go. You can use multiple Reinforced Squares, and let the horde break itself into bite-sized pieces.

Speaking of ammunition and cost-effectiveness, I really don't think that giving every single infantryman magic incendiary 5.56 PIE rounds is more cost effective than making some dumb artillery shells. How do you square that, or making every infantryman an orc battleaxe, with cost-effectiveness?

Because 5.56mm is going to be cheaper than 155mm, regardless of some added ingredients? And Lobos were literally melee weapons made out of existing materials. No moving parts, no complex production chains. Of course they're cheap.

Same is true for sandbags made out of burlap. vM asked why the bags were made out of kevlar, not why they used bags of rubble instead of steel or concrete.

Well, they're made out of Kevlar because - when reinforced by mounds of soil - they can stop bullets. They're pre-war holdovers. Not purpose-made for undead warfare.

You don't need anything more than a spoon to dig a trench, but armies waste resources on shovels. That's because using shovels saves other valuable resources, like time and energy.

They had plenty of time. This was a campaign that was going to take years in any case, and in which the enemy could adopt no countermeasures or innovate their own tactics.
 
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