Industrialization Quest

My plan plan is same as Save Money except that I double down on Vodka Brewing since it should allow use another profit making opportunity early than Standard Weights and Measures.

[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka
-[X] A Monster Manual?
-[X] Forgework
-[X] Call for Casting
-[X] Vodka Brewing outline
-[X] [FREE] X2 Vodka Brewing outline
-[X] Family Reachout
-[X] Audit Preparation, blatant and thorough
-[X] River-God's faith
-[X] Forcible education
-[X] [FREE] On the nature of Crafts
 
[X]Plan: Eighth One-Month Plan for the Economy of Nesiwald.

Not a very ideal plan and not likely one to win, but I like this one nonetheless.
 
[X] Plan: Save Money

is passable enough for my tastes. We can technically afford to wait one turn to get the mill done in time, despite that we will almost assuredly pass either of the money now options. (Diplo 15 means the actual difficulty of small loans is only 15, and intrigue 11 means succeeding on embezzling is only a 9)

Still, best not to risk the penalty of possibly losing Forgework as an action, and failing at borrow a copper will probably lead to all sorts of bad stuff happening to us if we still tried to push the mill in. We'll just have to cross our fingers and hope we can get the entire mill done without any delays.
 
I think you're limited to only adding one more action to Vodka Brewing.

Which is what he has; the other free action in his plan is On the nature of Crafts.

I also think we should double up on it: if we get it out sooner we can get the benefit of that tech earlier (meaning we get selling vodka faster) and then we can double up on standard weights and measures (or another one). In one case we would get one tech after some time and then the second tech after some more time, whereas if we split focus we would get both at the time we would have finished the second in the first case, a clearly sub-optimal approach.

To use an analogy, 12% annual return is less valuable than 1% monthly return, by about 0.6825% if you compare after one year.

At least we should use the free action for something else if we're not going to spend it on the same tech instead of using it on two different techs (This is assuming, of course, that neither one of the techs to study is close to being completed in which case we should definitely split the focus of our efforts, but that's not the case for vodka this turn).
 
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Which is what he has; the other free action in his plan is On the nature of Crafts.

I also think we should double up on it: if we get it out sooner we can get the benefit of that tech earlier (meaning we get selling vodka faster) and then we can double up on standard weights and measures (or another one). To use an analogy: 10% annual return at the end of the year is less valuable than 10% annual return, calculated daily.
Oh, I misread that. I thought they were voting for Vodka Brewing and then 2 additional free actions for Vodka Brewing. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka
-[X] A Monster Manual?
-[X] Forgework
-[X] Call for Casting
-[X] Vodka Brewing outline
-[X] [FREE] X2 Vodka Brewing outline
-[X] Family Reachout
-[X] Audit Preparation, blatant and thorough
-[X] River-God's faith
-[X] Forcible education
-[X] [FREE] On the nature of Crafts
 
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

this is stricltly better than plan Save money.

We gain NOTHING by splitting our attention between two different tech trees when they're both so far from completion.

If we focus on vodka, we'll get a new source of profits sooner

If we focus on standards, we get easier... well, everything, sooner.

if we split the focus... we get both a lot later on. What's even the point?


@Elder Haman
@veekie
@ConfusedCanuck
@Negation
@giodan
@Powerofmind
@Chacmon
@Blackshard

sorry for the (not that mass) tagging, but please reconsider. There is LITERALLY no advantage to splitting our focus in this situation, and everything else is the same!
 
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

this is stricltly better than plan Save money.

We gain NOTHING by splitting our attention between two different tech trees when they're both so far from completion.

If we focus on vodka, we'll get a new source of profits sooner

If we focus on standards, we get easier... well, everything, sooner.

if we split the focus... we get both a lot later on. What's even the point?


@Elder Haman
@veekie
@ConfusedCanuck
@Negation
@giodan
@Powerofmind
@Chacmon
@Blackshard

sorry for the (not that mass) tagging, but please reconsider. There is LITERALLY no advantage to splitting our focus in this situation, and everything else is the same!
Oi, no mass tagging in my quest please and thank you.
 
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

Standardized measurements and whatnot honestly seem kinda premature at this point. More like something to worry about once we've either built ourselves some large economic empire, or maybe gained some influence on the kingdom's bureaucracy.
 
Embezzling is taking money that's part of a legitimate business or other normal transaction for personal use. This is just... Borrowing.

Somehow I don't think those we "borrow" from will feel the same way about it.

this is stricltly better than plan Save money.

We gain NOTHING by splitting our attention between two different tech trees when they're both so far from completion.

If we focus on vodka, we'll get a new source of profits sooner

If we focus on standards, we get easier... well, everything, sooner.

if we split the focus... we get both a lot later on. What's even the point?

My feeling is that we are not going to have any money to invest in Vodka or standards for at least 6 months (since we have to pay 18 for the mill and the governor, and then whatever else the rest of the mill costs) So why not roll for both and maybe we'll get some exploding dice.
 
Somehow I don't think those we "borrow" from will feel the same way about it.



My feeling is that we are not going to have any money to invest in Vodka or standards for at least 6 months (since we have to pay 18 for the mill and the governor, and then whatever else the rest of the mill costs) So why not roll for both and maybe we'll get some exploding dice.
If vodka ends up being more like horse collars than we are likely going to be able to fit that into the plan, in which case knocking out vodka first opens that up sooner. And we are not in the range that dice exploding off both actions would finish Vodka. As it is any d60 can explode it does not matter if they are split over two actions or doubled up on a single action
 
Oi, no mass tagging in my quest please and thank you.
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

Would prefer a PM than a tag, but mkay.

I mean it in an absolutely NOT sarcastic way: why?

I mean, i've seen how there's a generic dislike/hate for mass tagging, but I've never really understood it. Not when there is actually a reason for the tags at least.

I mean, It's one thing when you're tagging repeatedly for the same reason, or if the reason is not valid (like, say, you're tagging to convince to change the vote, but the plan you're trying to push existed BEFORE those people voted, so they likely already knew about it anyway), but a single mass tag seems easier than, for example, a pm for every single person.

I think that in this specific case my use of mass tagging was mostly justifiable. Am I wrong?
My feeling is that we are not going to have any money to invest in Vodka or standards for at least 6 months (since we have to pay 18 for the mill and the governor, and then whatever else the rest of the mill costs) So why not roll for both and maybe we'll get some exploding dice.

well, exploding dices have the same odds no matter which option we use them in, so they're not really relevant to the "what should I choose" decision. Well, unless one could potentially be completed with exploding dices while the other could not, but in that case we're back to a "this one is nearly completed, so we might as well complete it) scenario.

Also we don't really know what the costs of the follow-up options to either research would be, but at least if we focus on one we can actually SEE what those costs are, and if we can't or don't want to pay them at the moment THEN we can shift to the other research track.

If we try to develop both researches at the same time we're simply removing that possible choice in the future.

Also we have no idea how long it will take to complete the research. 6 months is 2 turns, but there's a decent chance that, EVEN focusing 2 actions
per turn on vodka, it might not be ready in 6 months.

Let me do a quick check:

vodka is 2d60+ learning (16). objective is probably between 300 and 500. we already have 56. average should be more or less 77 per action i think.

2 actions per turn, that's 154.

56+154(this turn)+154(next turn)=364. So we have a good chance of completing it by the end of next turn. Add another turn (364+154=518) and that's very likely unless we get much lower than average rolls. Of course this is without considering exploding dices, which are 5% per dice (not sure what the chance would be on 6-8 rolls, and I really don't want to go and search what the formula for the binomial distribution is. Too much of a hassle).

Conclusion: with two rolls per turn on vodka we're likely to complete it either by the end of next turn, or by the end of the turn after that one. At that point we might or might not have the money to spend on experimentation, but that's hard to say without knowing what the costs are.
 
I mean it in an absolutely NOT sarcastic way: why?
It's hard to put a reason on the nigh-instinctive aversion and flash of anger that mass-tagging inspires. It's similar to the @everyone power on Discord - use with lots of caution, it at all. Getting mentioned for something that's not specifically about you, a question for you, but instead is "hey vote for MY idea!" is Very Annoying. It doesn't really invite discussion since it's the equivalent of shouting to a crowd. It's also very easy to start mass-tagging for lesser and lesser reasons, and it just all balls up into a big ball of "neeeeh".

Also, because I said so.
 
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