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Industrialization Quest

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[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

Since I guess people don't want to finish the first part of the mill before winter to avoid any malus related to construction work in heavy snow, I will vote for the option I have fewer objections to.
 
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Superticus said:
[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka

Since I guess people don't want to finish the first part of the mill before winter to avoid any malus related to construction work in heavy snow, I will vote for the option I have fewer objections to.
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We would have to deal with said penalties regardless, as the mill is a two-stage project, with the first stage stated to be primarily preparing the ground, with the second being construction of the mill itself. There's no point in trying to avoid winter turns, we're forced to deal with it anyway.
 
Powerofmind said:
We would have to deal with said penalties regardless, as the mill is a two-stage project, with the first stage stated to be primarily preparing the ground, with the second being construction of the mill itself. There's no point in trying to avoid winter turns, we're forced to deal with it anyway.
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We could do indoor actions such as building vodka stills in the interim.

Regardless it might not be an issue, hence I am voting for the other plan.
 
Superticus said:
We could do indoor actions such as building vodka stills in the interim.

Regardless it might not be an issue, hence I am voting for the other plan.
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A distillery would be difficult because I don't think we can casually put together the distilling apparatus without importing a few things, difficult during the winter, not to mention we'd need a building for it and all buildings are currently occupied (which would then come up against the same problem as the mill).
 
Rockeye said:
"Moving air with water... Harold, d'you think you could hook that up to a bellows somehow?"
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@Rockeye I've been thinking on this line for days and all I can think about is a giant industrial complex powered by a single water mill. How likely is that to happen?
Also, what ever happened to our assistant?

On another note I remember some one mentioning vertical integration involving nails and the, hopefully, new carpentry business that will be starting up. To who ever stated it, good idea, but you didn't go far enough. :D You left out, lumberjacks, sawmills, and the logistics to get the wood. So much opportunity for business and improvement.
 
Kycan12 said:
I've been thinking on this line for days and all I can think about is a giant industrial complex powered by a single water mill. How likely is that to happen?
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There's fundamental issues limiting the size of water driven machinery, namely how much power you can feasibly extract from the river before it's dropped too far down to continue its course as a river. This limit can be pretty high for a large enough river and an industrial complex drawn out along the riverbank, but large rivers tend to be used for trade, making it hard to fully exploit them without people getting mad at you. There's a reason factories took off after steam and electricity: (char)coal is a lot denser of a power source than water is, and much easier to transfer around in a useful state.
 
Rockeye said:
It's hard to put a reason on the nigh-instinctive aversion and flash of anger that mass-tagging inspires. It's similar to the @everyone power on Discord - use with lots of caution, it at all. Getting mentioned for something that's not specifically about you, a question for you, but instead is "hey vote for MY idea!" is Very Annoying. It doesn't really invite discussion since it's the equivalent of shouting to a crowd. It's also very easy to start mass-tagging for lesser and lesser reasons, and it just all balls up into a big ball of "neeeeh".

Also, because I said so.
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This. 90% of the time somebody doing a mass tagging in a thread is utterly wrong, is convinced they're right, had been spamming the thread about their thing for a few pages so nobody would have missed it anyway, and has immediately generated an incentive to vote for something else just to show them how annoying they are.
 
Kycan12 said:
@Rockeye I've been thinking on this line for days and all I can think about is a giant industrial complex powered by a single water mill. How likely is that to happen?
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Not at all. Even if we lived next to the in-universe equivalent of Niagara Falls (and had money to burn on really high quality infrastructure that could make use if it) so power itself wouldn't be an issue, running something that could be called an industrial complex rather than a facility off of a single power source more or less requires electricity. This is because without electrical power being easily transferable from point to point running multiple tools/operations off of a single source is an extremely complex engineering challenge.

You'd need either a very fancy gearing system and something like rollers/hydraulics to use plug-and-play with industrial machinery, a tree-trunk sized piece of tool steel that could handle the torque of turning gears at both middling parts (where gearing for a normal mill would be) as well as farther parts (like a building or two next door) without snapping from the stress, or some kind of Rube Goldberg style of each machine being powered by the motion of the previous machine. That last one is the most plausible, but the hilarious inefficiency that'd be involved as well as the necessity of running all of the machines higher in the daisy chain at once in order to work stuff lower down makes the concept highly impractical.
 
me.me.here said:
Not at all. Even if we lived next to the in-universe equivalent of Niagara Falls (and had money to burn on really high quality infrastructure that could make use if it) so power itself wouldn't be an issue, running something that could be called an industrial complex rather than a facility off of a single power source more or less requires electricity. This is because without electrical power being easily transferable from point to point running multiple tools/operations off of a single source is an extremely complex engineering challenge.

You'd need either a very fancy gearing system and something like rollers/hydraulics to use plug-and-play with industrial machinery, a tree-trunk sized piece of tool steel that could handle the torque of turning gears at both middling parts (where gearing for a normal mill would be) as well as farther parts (like a building or two next door) without snapping from the stress, or some kind of Rube Goldberg style of each machine being powered by the motion of the previous machine. That last one is the most plausible, but the hilarious inefficiency that'd be involved as well as the necessity of running all of the machines higher in the daisy chain at once in order to work stuff lower down makes the concept highly impractical.
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As I reacll there were two other sites that are possible locations for watermills (though not as effective as the one we chose). So I think we should be able to slowly build something up.

Also, historically the solution used was the first one of a grearing system, so it shouldn't be impossible to add additional things, but it will be additional effort for another time.
 
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TortugaGreen said:
There's fundamental issues limiting the size of water driven machinery, namely how much power you can feasibly extract from the river before it's dropped too far down to continue its course as a river. This limit can be pretty high for a large enough river and an industrial complex drawn out along the riverbank, but large rivers tend to be used for trade, making it hard to fully exploit them without people getting mad at you. There's a reason factories took off after steam and electricity: (char)coal is a lot denser of a power source than water is, and much easier to transfer around in a useful state.
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Your point is clear and to the point. What I should have said is we are building the water mill for the express purpose of grinding grains. Timothy is now asking if it could power a bellows, and I could easily see a carpenter asking after if the mill could power a lathe. From there more and more people and professions could ask what the mill could do for them. The end result of all this being the mill in the center on an industrial complex powering a small portion of it.
 
Elder Haman said:
AS I reacll there were two other sites that are possible locations for watermills (though not as effective as the one we chose). So I think we should be able to slowly build something up.

Also, historically the solution used was the first one of a grearing system, so it shouldn't be impossible to add additional things, but it will be additional effort for another time.
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We could set up additional mills, but that's not what was asked - running multiple things off of a single waterwheel is incredibly difficult. There is a very big difference between a gearing system that can power a horizontal grindstone (as was discussed during the demo as a possible future option) and a gearing system that can switch between powering multiple different things.

It's the difference between the second most basic use of gearing and something more complicated than a modern manual transmission.
 
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Kycan12 said:
Your point is clear and to the point. What I should have said is we are building the water mill for the express purpose of grinding grains. Timothy is now asking if it could power a bellows, and I could easily see a carpenter asking after if the mill could power a lathe. From there more and more people and professions could ask what the mill could do for them. The end result of all this being the mill in the center on an industrial complex powering a small portion of it.
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A mill powered bellows is likely possible with their current capabilities as it is slow and steady like the current mill. However, a lathe probably needs far better machining and gearing to work as it needs to go quite a bit faster to be worth anything.
 
Speaking of running things off the same shaft - is the watermill we are planning on making just for milling, or is it a combined milling and threshing machine?

Because mechanical threshing is also not that complicated (we have a drum with essentially blades or chains rotating fast, and then a gravity separation stage based on a fan blowing and some kind of sieve), but to manually do it is notoriously very labour intensive.

You could have a chute that moves the grain directly from the threshing part to the milling part of the machine without need for human intervention, and we can collect the straw/husk for paper making and other things.
 
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You don't have the plans for threshing machines yet.

[X] Plan: Doing our job and Vodka
-[X] A Monster Manual?
-[X] Forgework
-[X] Call for Casting.
-[X] Vodka Brewing outline.
-[X][FREE] X2 Vodka Brewing outline.
-[X] Family Reachout
-[X] Audit Preparation, blatant and thorough
-[X] River-God's faith
-[X] Forcible education.
-[X] [FREE] On the nature of Crafts

Wins.
 
Rockeye said:
You don't have the plans for threshing machines yet.
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Fair enough; I guess we can add it to the long list of things that would be useful for reducing the amount of farm work needed when we get around to implementing them (apparently 1/4 of all agricultural labour was expended on threshing grain immediately prior to its invention!) along with mechanical reapers and seeding machines.
 
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@Kycan12 I'm gonna use your +5 omake bonus on something that is not crafting but it will turn a bare success into a regular success. Unless you object. Also, I need to roll an Ominous Die (tm)(hopefully not literal die) either way...

Higher is better.
Rockeye threw 1 6-faced dice. Total: 5
5 5
 
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