[X] Sirrocco
In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Well, Bayushi Kimiko did say people are paying attention to Naoto. To me, that means when he intervenes on Strong Birch's behalf then...not everybody, but the people who are plotters and schemers, who are going to be picking over the moves Naoto's made to try and figure out what his deal is, they're going to be taking something like "Intervene on behalf of a random heinen" and they're going to be going "Why?".
And when I tried to put myself in the shoes of someone on the outside looking in, "That Scorpion helped out this random heinen who owns a theater because he's a bro like that" ...nah.
And the first ulterior motive I came up with is "Said heinen and his theater are in some way connected to the Scorpion Clan. Why else would a Scorpion samurai go out of their way to help a Lion heinen?"
- Location
- nz
[X] Sirrocco
- Location
- Earth
I understand that that is the narrative of your vote. My vote narative is :"Scorpions arrive in city. Shadow cabal sets plan in motion to discredit them. Slip servant into Scorpion chambers. Get servant to approach lowest ranking Scorpion. Get him to disgrace himself defending one of your men. " Is the narative likely? No. Are the concequences terrible? Yes.
Guarding from someone compeling Strong Birch by taking care of his family is sufficient to deal with a situation where he is being presured, not one where he is an agent working against us. It is why I want to look him in the eye and see what kind of a man he is. I figure we meet him, make sure he is just an innocent, give him an out if someone is pressuring him and we will do fine. Telling the Lion that Taru is misusing his ability seem like a wasted opportunity, and we are doing it on the word of two peasants without ever meeting the man or investigating him. That seems a bit reckless.
I do agree there are things we can do to control it. It is why my vote differs on dealing with the Crane from yours. I will point out this:
- Going from an Iajutsu to a kenjutsu duel seem like the difference from certain Doom, to mostly assured Doom. He is still a dedicated Dueler, we are a dedicated Courtier.
-I think the amount of political power the Crane need to expend will greatlly depend on the size and scope of the incident we allow them to manifacture.
So I plan to limit their ability to manifacture incidents. Like not going to their rooms alone, or staying in a room alone with the head of their delegation that is trying to Seduce us. As much as I like learning the Seduce skill, it is not an opportunity I wish to grant them again. Not without some preparation for it.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Naoto's a Bayushi bushi, not a Courtier.
Hm, question, what if this guy really is on the level and it's Strong Birch who actually is smuggling? It might not be likely, but it's at least possible. Maybe we should look into things? Or perhaps just make sure that whatshisname doshin doesn't have a backer of its own.
This is all probably just what it looks like -- a heimin desperately coming to the only person/first person she thinks can help her -- but hey maybe we should make sure?
This is all probably just what it looks like -- a heimin desperately coming to the only person/first person she thinks can help her -- but hey maybe we should make sure?
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Pale Oak, who informed us Strong Birch is not a smuggler, is our spy guy and is very good at his job (see the dossiers he put together for us earlier). If our delegation's spy guy is in fact a member of the Hypothetical Mysterious Anti-Scorpion Cabal or been compromised by them to the point he's flat out lying to Naoto to screw him over....we were a gone pecan right from the start, and our best bet is to get the Hell out of Shiro Matsu right the Hell now, even if it means running off into the snow on foot with only the clothes on our back.
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- Location
- London, England
Unfortunately, making the duel one of Kenjutsu would require the consent of both parties, which a Kakita is unlikely to grant for fairly obvious reasons. Iaijutsu is the default, and all the laws and customs of Rokugan are set up to favour it above all other kinds of contest.
The Crane worked very hard to make sure of that.
That said, in order for it to be a duel to the death the consent of both party's lords would be required. Bayushi Kimoko is a crazy lady, but she's not likely to risk sacrificing a valued subordinate without very good cause.
- Location
- Earth
Huh. I thought that Rokugan had some kind of honor dule law/thing. Where if we were cought doing something sufficiently dishonorable to the Crane delegation head, she could demand a duel to the death. What would happen if an incident did occur? Hypotheticly?
Or hell, with a lore role, what has happened in the past when major incident are induced by the Crane? Or do they not do that?
Hmm. Maybe I'm just being parnoid. Or maybe the worst that can happen to us is not a duel to the death but to be sent back from court in disgrace. +side we get to live. -side we fail at life. Still something to be careful with. In that case Kakita is likely here to act against the Matsu. They will likely agree to a duel to the death.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Your narrative has one fairly fundamental flaw. She didn't approach us. We approached her, and *no one* would have reason to expect that we would do that. Additionally, prior to our making waves, it simply wasn't going to be worth the setup cost to hork us personally over. For that matter, even if there had been some shadowy conspiracy that inserted her into the servants serving us (perhaps for information-gathering) they'd have had no real reason to target us prior to the point where she made that plea.
Additionall, our meeting Strong Birch and looking him in the eye is a *much* less credible source of information than Pale Oak's word... and Pale Oak is far from a mere peasant.
So... there are a few things wrong with your theories here. First, we have scored some *major* benefits for the Clan while here that do not in any way depend on our continued personal involvement. If we go home in disgrace here, we've still served the Clan well, and the Clan will find something useful to do with us. It probably won't be diplomatic corps, but it's not like the Scorpion consider "homegrown sage with a demonstrated willingness to take one for the team" to be a useless asset. Heck - we're Scorpion. All we really have to do is swap to a full facemask, change our name, and teach ourselves a different accent. It's not like we're some Crane who *cares* about glory in that way.
Second... we're Scorpion, and Otomo-sama is an ally. You'd better believe that that man can effectively counter a dishonor attack, and we're not terrible at it... especially when we have the home field advantage. We can make this sort of move *very* expensive for them... and what would they gain from it? Only a fool steps on scorpions in bare feet, and the Crane have very little armor, here.
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- Location
- London, England
Oh, Doji Mariko could absolutely demand a duel to the death. But that doesn't mean she'll get one. Your life does not belong to you, but to your lord, and it is your lord who decides when and where to risk it. This doesn't preclude you from accidentally dying during the non-lethal duel, but it does make it somewhat harder to arrange.
Generally, if the Crane want to assassinate someone (not that they would ever refer to it as such), they'll rely on the fact that most samurai won't willingly allow themselves to be shamed no matter how dishonourable they are. Even if you are utterly without pride, at some point the sheer social implications of allowing someone to insult and belittle you without retaliating becomes too much to allow, especially when it begins having knock-on effects on your family and Clan.
- Location
- Earth
Two things. 1. We approched her to ask her for tea. Later on she came to us asking for help. We did not ask her if she needed help, she came to us for help. Granted, she had reason to belive we might be different then the locals, but she did come to us.
Also the hypothtical Cabal is not acting against us personally, but against the Emperors chosen Underhand. Targeting the newly arrived Scorpion before they can mess up the Rebels, through attacking its youngest and supposedly least capable member. At least, in theory.
Hmm, I'll buy that. A character reference like that is acceptable, but I would prefer more up to date info. What he said is that it did not have a reputation for it. Checking should not be a great burden, but you are right, Pale Oak is a much better choice to ask some questions. If you think they are unnesecarry, your opinion.
You are correct and this makes me feel much better about the possible Crane angle. But, disgrace right now would undo much of our work. In a couple of days when our boss has had time to consolidate, then yes, we could retreat in disgrace. That would still be a defeat. And court is still in sesion, if we depart, whatever gains we made will have to survive it without us. Hell, at any point while we have irons in the fire it could be inconvenient.
In any case, it is a way to possibly remove us from the field, and we should keep an eye out for it. At least we do not have to worry about losing our heads this way. Probably.
Hmm, okay, so worrying about things from the Strong Birch angle seems it may have been a bit worrywart of me.
How about the other side of things though? The doshin, I mean. It doesn't have to be any conspiracy or anything even; there just could be some information about him that might be useful.
For instance, if he is a corrupt smuggler... Well, why?
Who is he dealing with? Is he smuggling for anybody? Is he part of anything bigger, or is this just one lone guy being a bit corrupt?
Could this guy perhaps be a lead into some criminal elements of the city?
Or, for that matter, what if this guy could be a sign of corruption amongst the (dunno what they're called) police and lawkeepers? In which case, if he's not a lone corrupt figure, then he might be a lead into the corruption in general.
... Though come to think of it, if there is some corruption at work, we're probably going to find it via the scribes we lent to that official. So we might not need this guy.
It was actually a great example of what a Scorpion character might try to operate like. Like if you were to look at the story so far, and you were looking for what would make a game feel like a Scorpion game... *that* would probably be the thing you'd point to and go "Yup, that's it."
Probably kinda like for Sosuke and charging into battle against Tainted and Oni.
How about the other side of things though? The doshin, I mean. It doesn't have to be any conspiracy or anything even; there just could be some information about him that might be useful.
For instance, if he is a corrupt smuggler... Well, why?
Who is he dealing with? Is he smuggling for anybody? Is he part of anything bigger, or is this just one lone guy being a bit corrupt?
Could this guy perhaps be a lead into some criminal elements of the city?
Or, for that matter, what if this guy could be a sign of corruption amongst the (dunno what they're called) police and lawkeepers? In which case, if he's not a lone corrupt figure, then he might be a lead into the corruption in general.
... Though come to think of it, if there is some corruption at work, we're probably going to find it via the scribes we lent to that official. So we might not need this guy.
I suppose it's always possible to fuck up or fail at some point and lose face and so on. But even then, we would at least have managed to have accomplished some good for our clan already.
Yeah all in all, apparently you managed to be ~Scorpion~ as fuck:
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But this right here? Was probably the most ~Scorpion~ as fuck thing we've ever done.
It was actually a great example of what a Scorpion character might try to operate like. Like if you were to look at the story so far, and you were looking for what would make a game feel like a Scorpion game... *that* would probably be the thing you'd point to and go "Yup, that's it."
Probably kinda like for Sosuke and charging into battle against Tainted and Oni.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
We approached her to ask for directions... which was pretty unusual behavior for a samurai, especially given that the local peasant rabble-rousers would know the Lion well but likely would not know the other clans much at all. We then treated her in a kind and respectful fashion... which as far as they're concerned was bizarre behavior. This is not something they could have predicted we would do, and any plan they might have had based on it would be silly. She then came to us and asked us for a favor, to save the life of her uncle. Consider the two possibilities.
- possibility 1: this is all pretty straightforward. She's desperate. She can't do anything. No one she knows can do anything. Wait - there was that one kind Scorpion. Maybe he could do something. At least, he probably wouldn't punish her too badly for asking, right? This seems plausible.
- possibility 2: Strong Birch is a member of the cabal, and this is a setup, designed to dishonor a Scorpion. That means that we now have a member of the cabal who will *die* (after torture - hopefully without revealing anything else) if this Scorpion says "no" (entirely plausible), or decides to try and then either fails to sell the idea or decides it's not worth the cost after all. The risk vs reward on this one is pretty poor. Also, the reward is... dishonoring a Scorpion? What does *that* get you? He's a Scorpion. Of *course* he lies sometimes. Oh - and after you pull this off, you still have to make the dishonor stick... against a Scorpion. This seems not so plausible.
Is true... but Doji Mariko is highly unlikely to seek to remove us from the field right now, given that we've proven ourselves to be pretty effective overall, and are showing interest in her to the point where she might be able to get some influence out of us. You're correct that she may be intending to play us as a patsy rather than as an ally, but she's going to play nice for the next while regardless - at least until she either gets what she wants or determines that she cannot. In the meantime, we actually can offer her things of real value. She doesn't have anything like our information sources, for example, and it *remains* the case that many of her implied goals fit well with the goals of the Scorpion Clan. As long as it's not so easily traced back to us, we can afford to be useful to her in some things. In this, the more hooks she thinks she has in us, the safer we are from her machinations in the short term.
Now, Kakita Whatshisname *is* potentially a threat in the short term, if he sees us moving in on his woman during a Winter Court that he'd imagined as his chance for a whirlwind romance, surrounded by enemies. Disappointment can be brutal. In that case, though, he'd be unlikely to get permission from *his* Lord, and he knows it. He's still a threat, and gets included on the list of "arguments for investing further in combat stats" (...alongside Matsu rageboy, the Mantis delegation, the fact that this is Shiro Matsu, and the fact that we pissed off those nebulous-but-armed revolutionaries) but that's just him personally, and he's *probably* under control enough that he won't be wiling to sacrifice his honor or position to get at us.
Incidentally, if someone could give a run-down of what the iajutsu rules are, that might come in handy wrt figuring out what to do about the Kakita.
Well, there's also the bit where we've chosen who to romance based at least partially on our desire to investigate her, learn her secrets, and then sell them to another party (who we met in secret in a geisha house) to gain advantage for our clan, in spite of the fact that, overall, we like the girl more than the other party.
Still, I think you're right in that that one beats it out.
This game is actually *really good* at feeling like a Scorpion game, at least to me.
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Yeah when you put it like that, it seems far more reasonable for us to focus on how to pull off saving this guy in the right way - or on maybe wondering if the doshin might be worth looking into. Maybe he could be a lead into something.
Then again, the thing you (or others?) said about 'mission creep' might be worth keeping in mind.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
I could see him being a lead, but I don't see him being a lead into anything all that useful for us personally. Having a life debt from Strong Birch could come in handy at some point (either for us or for Pale Oak). Theatre managers aren't generally all that useful as contacts, but there might come a day when he's the right tool for the job. Having the honest adoration and trust of the little wren who quietly cleans the rooms of all of the delegations is actively useful, both in trying to find out more about what's going on with the Doji and in possibly giving us a heads-up at some point if she happens to overhear something that we'd have a need to know (like someone in one of the other delegations plotting against us). The doshin? Even if we owned him utterly (which, given that we can easily have him killed is not out of the question, with a bit more work) he *still* wouldn't be able to give us anything that we really want. If he was the only entry we had into the magistrates office, that would be different, but at this point he's really, really not.
So, yeah. Mission creep. Best to claim victory and go home.
By the way, I'd like to make clear in general (and to @primemountain in particular) - I don't want to discourage bursts of paranoia. We really are upsetting people, and some of them are liable to be hypercompetent. Coming up with paranoid conspiracy theories is like a brainstorming phase for the process of identifying actual plausble threats. It's useful. For example, the Crane may well be setting us up for a carrot-and-stick approach using their Kakita as the stick, and thinking about that *now* gets us better positioned to defend against it. Given that, for example... well, does he really have a thing for Doji Mariko, or is that just the game the Crane have decided to play?
Worth noting that the following are people who do matter, who we've never met, and who are our job as far as our delegation is concerned.
- The Kaiu
- The Yoritomo
- The Tsuruchi
- The Kakita
- The Shiba
Of those five, three seem likely to wish to do us harm. Some effort to learn more about them might be in order.
We haven't really met the Dragon or the Unicorn yet, either, but Yogo Hanzo is handling those. At some point, we'll want to ask him about the Unicorn, and what he's managed to figure out about their goals. Still, that seems less pressing.
Hmm well here's a question; could the doshin be the subordinate/pawn of somebody who'd be ticked at us removing one of their pawns?
To be fair, we're also worried about our life when dealing with her. Not to mention her guard. And then there's the suspicion we have about her being sent here to get killed. We like her because, as a Crane, she's easy to like.
Heh, come to think of it, given how uncertain and potentially dangerous the whole thing is... us liking her even despite all that seems more odd; compared to us liking her while intending to spy on and investigate her.
Yeah. Do you think the rest of the Scorpions have gotten into (or stumbled across) similar plots and intrigues comparable to our own too?
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Given currently available information, the doshin is no more likely to be pertinent in any particular way (other than his relationship with Strong Birch, and a willingness to abuse his power a bit) than any of the other doshin in the city. We cannot afford to investigate them all, and even if we could, it would be a massive waste. There is nothing particularly special about this man
I think that Bayushi Kimiko is at this point more focused on interactions with the Matsu (who are at least straightforward) and in knocking people's legs out from under them. She is *great* at what she does, but what she does isn't particularly conducive to her personally finding things. Also, I'm pretty sure that if she did find something, she'd tell us. Yogo Hanzo is mostly here as shugenja support (and is almost worth it for the soundproofing alone). He's handling two other delegations on top of that, but they're relatively low-key delegations. Also, I'm pretty sure if he found something, he'd tell us. We're finding all this stuff out in part because "find stuff out" is what we're focused on as a character.
3.12 - Seventh Day of the Boar
- Location
- London, England
The Seventh Day of the Boar
The small black pebble makes a click as you place it down on the board, completing the encirclement of the ever-shrinking arrangement of white pieces in the centre. Doji Mariko looks down at the board in disappointment, her fan fluttering in momentary distress.
"It appears you have me in a poor position, Soshi-san. Yet I could have sworn I was winning..." She muses, her tone light but hiding serious distress behind it. "Truly, I do not think you are being fair on a complete novice."
You merely smile. "Ah, but Doji-sama, I am a Scorpion." You say with all the understated menace you can squeeze into the words. "We are well known for being ruthless and untrustworthy. If you believed such a notorious villain as I would play fair, then I am afraid you have only yourself to blame."
Mariko laughs, abandoning the sorrowful facade, and makes a swatting motion at you with her fan. "Oh, how cruel. Not only do you crush my pleasant illusions, but then you mock me for them. Truly, I begin to wonder if you have a heart in that chest of yours, or merely a lump of mountain ice."
"Press your ear to my chest and find out." You suggest, delighting in the faint blush that colors Mariko's cheeks for a brief moment before she regains control of herself. Doji Mariko, you have learned, is a woman who has always wanted to know what it is like to break the rules. As a loyal Crane she would never disgrace her Clan and family by actually doing so, yet she cannot deny being intrigued by the mere suggestion of it all the same. It has been surprisingly enjoyable, playing up to the stereotype of the villainous yet charming Scorpion during these little meetings, so much so that you need to remind yourself to exercise a degree of restraint every now and then. The Crane are not your allies, and could very well be your enemy, after all.
You have a nasty suspicion that the moment you forget that will be the moment you die.
Still, there is no call for overt hostility either, and until things are decided one way or another this is an enjoyable enough way to pass the time. You are making good on your promise to teach Mariko how to play Go, and she in turn is tutoring you in the delicate art of poetry. The fact that in the process you are slowly gaining her trust and working your way into her confidence in order to learn and exploit her secrets is a bonus, as is the flirting. All in all, there seems little reason not to simply enjoy this time together, and let the rest sort itself out.
Still, you cannot help but notice that Kakita Sekawa has been avoiding you. You've met Chen, and normally you would expect a degree of interest from the remaining member of the delegation, but the duelist seems intent on ignoring you... or giving the impression that he's ignoring you. That could be troublesome.
One thing at a time.
-/-
The court sessions are slowly settling into something of a routine by this stage, every delegation having gathered at least a general idea of their rivals and potential allies in the first few days of careful conversation. Now the true plans are being put into place, covert meetings are arranged as preparations for events yet to come are finalized. On the surface all is calm, the delegates merely taking the time to enjoy one another's company, but you are quite sure that there is a great deal going on below the surface that simply means nothing to you without the proper context.
Still, right now you are enjoying a brisk debate with Asako Tani, walking side by side through the corridors and halls of the court. The topic is theology, which is not entirely surprising, given the emphasis that the Phoenix Clan places on spiritual matters. In many ways they are the founders of Rokugan's religion - the Kami Shiba was the one to record the conversation between Shinsei and the First Hantei, thereby creating the Tao, and it was his children who worked on finding a harmonious balance between the revealed wisdom of the Little Teacher and the existing systems of worship centered around the Fortunes.
"Ah, this reminds me of one of the most interesting periods of history." Asako Tani says with a slight smile. She appears to be greatly enjoying the chance to converse with one who has studied so many different topics, and every exchange leaves each of you with new pieces of knowledge to add to your own. "Are you familiar with the so-called Heresy of the Five Rings, Soshi-san?"
You cast your mind back to your history lessons, identifying the period in question. Fortunately it was fairly prominent, rather than some obscure theological dispute between different orders of the brotherhood, and as such you bring the pertinent facts to mind quite quickly.
"Ah, yes, the teachings of... the monk Gorinno, I believe." You say thoughtfully. "He held that there should be one Great Clan for each of the Five Rings, and that any imbalance in such a perfect arrangement would be reflected in increasing strife and disharmony in the Empire."
"A tad simplistic, looking back, but on the surface his ideas do sound reasonable." Tani comments, though her smile belies her serious words.
"Indeed, Asako-sama, and doubtless many would have liked to believe that the problems of the world could be solved in such an elegant fashion." You say dryly. "It was merely unfortunate that both the Crane and Scorpion could make strong claim on being the Clan of Air. And while Gorinno-san's solution of simply combining the two Clans to make one is likewise elegantly simple, I suspect the honourable monk might have been disappointed with the outcome."
"And yet, neither Clan was able to make a successful theological argument against the Five Rings Order." Tani replies, a note of gentle teasing in her voice. "Perhaps if your ancestors had been more like my own you would have prevailed on your own strength, rather than needing the assistance of the Brotherhood and Gorinno's own disgrace to succeed."
"Ah, there's that Phoenix arrogance I've heard so much about." You retort, though without any genuine venom. "I know this may shock you, Asako-sama, but we don't actually spend all of our days lamenting our failure to be more like the Isawa."
"And thank the Fortunes for that." Asako Tani says with a laugh. "The Empire might not well survive the attentions of two Isawa families." She pauses, and looks at you in curiousity. "Out of interest, Soshi-san, what are your spiritual beliefs? Shinsei tells us that there are many roads to walk, but I am curious which one calls to you the most."
Respond
[ ] Write in
QM's note - This is once again a chance for you guys to flesh out some more of Naoto's character, specifically in the vein of how he feels about religion. Is he a highly superstitious sort who prays to the Fortunes every night before bed? Does he dream of retiring to a monastery and pursuing enlightenment? Does he just not give the matter much thought?
Note that while some degree of spiritualism is expected of a samurai, there is no one particular doctrine that unites them all. A samurai who seeks enlightenment in the movement of the courts and one who retreats to a distant hideaway to meditate for days are both equally likely possibilities.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Of course, Naoto doesn't have to be a typical Scorpion.
Actually, if he used to be a smug ass, I could imagine him at least having taken up some contradictory or 'I'm smarter than the others' sort of position. You know, some obscure philosophy, you've probably never heard of it, plebian.
Actually, if he used to be a smug ass, I could imagine him at least having taken up some contradictory or 'I'm smarter than the others' sort of position. You know, some obscure philosophy, you've probably never heard of it, plebian.
[x] "What are my beliefs? I believe in the Fortunes and the Kami. I will one day if that is my kharma retire and contemplate enlightenment. But in the here and now, I would say that the Heavens watch and judge, and we strive to fulfil our duty. What comes after is not ours to decide, so why worry of it? Just do our best, that's all we can ask of ourselves as the Tao says we are the last judge in this life."